Wittman played a different position than Kitch, though . . . Wittman played a 2/3 swing and Kitch played a 3/4 swing. I realize that Jim Thomas played a good bit of the 2 for that team, but IMO Wittman was more of a 2 than a 3, Kitch more the 3 and Turner the 4 to Tolbert's 5.
All time Indiana team
- Thread starter Wall2Boogie
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I don't know. In those years, Issel played against some pretty high level talent in the ABA, especially at his position. I do agree that Unibrow has been better in the league, but I'm not ready to sell the ABA short.
Those aren't my top 5 and many on the bench would be either in the top 5 or off the list. Not bad for a fan in training.
There are players from before the mid 70's that I never saw play. Were they good for their era, or would they have adjusted to the style of play and been great in any era? History will not give Yogi credit because the teams and coach he played for. Guyton also doesn't deserve to be second team and neither is Henderson despite good careers. I would likely replace them with any from a list including Bobby Wilkerson, Landon Turner, Ray Tolbert, Randy Whitman (sp?) and others.
any all time iu team that doesn't start with big george is invalid.
has anyone mentioned steve downing? absolutely one of iu's all time greats. i would put him right there with bellamy, ahead of benson.You might not remember Bobby Wilkerson, but any IU greats team isn't complete without him because he really was all that as a defender . . . or Ray Tolbert or Landon Turner or Don Schlundt or Jimmy Rayl or Steve Green or the VanArsdale twins or Tom Abernethy or Steve Downing or Bill Garrett or Dean Garrett (never made that name connection before) or Slick Leonard or Randy Wittman . . . I think I have to include Darryl Thomas . . .
. . . and then there's DJ White, Eric Gordon, Jared Jeffries and Cody Zeller . . .
. . . AJ Moye gets an honorable mention for stuffing Carlos Boozer . . . and Keith Smart gets at least an honorable mention . . .
. . . I'm tempted to include Derrick Coleman here, but . . .
. . . Guyton was an OK player, but I don't think of him as an all-time type guy.
Oladipo was a fun guy to watch, and has become a better player as a pro than he was in college, which I am all in favor of, given where his skill set started when he came to IU . . . I also think OG Anunoby fits that category as well . . .
. . . my hope is that Juwan Morgan can grow into someone we look back on as fondly as any of these guys . . .
Ohhh and I am remiss at not mentioning Christian Watford . . .
I'm an old-timer and being so I find it extremely difficult to pick an all-time team of five players so I won't.
During my time Walt Bellamy was an exceptional center (Wow! Could he rebound. In today's market, he would be a one-and-done.) Guard Jimmy Rayl could score from anywhere . . . and he did including two 56 point games prior to the 3-point shot. Prior to "Bells", coming to IU in 1957, Don Schlundt and Archie Dees were premier Big Ten centers for the Hoosiers. There are others, some who have faded with history, like Frank Radovich, from the region. Still the names of others are more well-known, like Slick Leonard, who also carved a place in IU basketball history..
During my time Walt Bellamy was an exceptional center (Wow! Could he rebound. In today's market, he would be a one-and-done.) Guard Jimmy Rayl could score from anywhere . . . and he did including two 56 point games prior to the 3-point shot. Prior to "Bells", coming to IU in 1957, Don Schlundt and Archie Dees were premier Big Ten centers for the Hoosiers. There are others, some who have faded with history, like Frank Radovich, from the region. Still the names of others are more well-known, like Slick Leonard, who also carved a place in IU basketball history..
This is almost the right answer. (Haven't read further.)
Substitute Walt Bellamy for Benson and you have the winning answer.
McGinnis and Isiah were and are the two greatest to have ever worn the cream and crimson and we only got to see them for a total of three years.
Yes, Alford was a GREAT college player , Im not sure anyone squeezed every drop of talent he had more than Steve..........after IU? Well different story. Top 5 is almost impossible top 10 hard but Alford has to be there.
Yes, the mention of Downing is in the post you responded to.
Downing was an exceptional college player, and I loved having him play for IU. He kinda was a Joby Wright type guy, which was pretty darned good . . . and he deserves to be mentioned among the program's greats . . . but he wasn't as good as Bellamy or Benson.
My bad, mr Indiana, pleaser forgive me. I forgot message, are part time spelling Bs.
Benson was better than Downing . . .
Also, we oughta at least mention John Ritter in the discussion of IU greats. Downing's inside presence needed Ritter's outside shot to be effective . . . and they did get to the Final Four. But Benson was a major part of two of the best college teams in history and was national player of the year his senior year (even though he was the 2nd best player on the team that year, behind Woodson).
There seems to be some concensus around
Bellamy
Cheaney
Thomas
I offer that the other forward should be Don Schlundt, a scoring machine that could play the 3, 4 or 5.
The big question is that this team needs a 2. Obviously, Steve Alford offers superb shooting. Is there any other 2 that shot almost as well as Alford that would offer better defense. Randy Whitman? Bob Leonard? John Rtter?
Bellamy
Cheaney
Thomas
I offer that the other forward should be Don Schlundt, a scoring machine that could play the 3, 4 or 5.
The big question is that this team needs a 2. Obviously, Steve Alford offers superb shooting. Is there any other 2 that shot almost as well as Alford that would offer better defense. Randy Whitman? Bob Leonard? John Rtter?
Woody would play the 2 if I was coaching your team. He'd be on any team I coach. If I was forced to, I would play him at the 5. Whatever it takes to get him on the court.
The ABA was a good league... had some of the best "stars" and was far more successful as a competitor than most startup leagues. I always thought the old USFL tried to follow that formula by nabbing some high profile guys.
Interestingly, Southport's own Louie Dampier is the ABA's career scoring and assist leader. I assume he got there just with career longevity and didn't have the star power for the NBA to be as eager to poach him. Shout out to a fellow Cardinal!
I think I'd go:
Thomas
Woodson
Cheaney
McGinnis
Bellamy
I like athleticism and all around play and I think Woody provides that over Steve. He'd definitely be on my bench, as would Buckner, Wilkerson, Benson, Schlundt, and May. If I had to cut it down to a 1st and 2nd team, I'd get rid of Benson in favor of Schlundt.
Damn you! I had to watch the whole game...You might not remember Bobby Wilkerson, but any IU greats team isn't complete without him because he really was all that as a defender . . . or Ray Tolbert or Landon Turner or Don Schlundt or Jimmy Rayl or Steve Green or the VanArsdale twins or Tom Abernethy or Steve Downing or Bill Garrett or Dean Garrett (never made that name connection before) or Slick Leonard or Randy Wittman . . . I think I have to include Darryl Thomas . . .
. . . and then there's DJ White, Eric Gordon, Jared Jeffries and Cody Zeller . . .
. . . AJ Moye gets an honorable mention for stuffing Carlos Boozer . . . and Keith Smart gets at least an honorable mention . . .
. . . I'm tempted to include Derrick Coleman here, but . . .
. . . Guyton was an OK player, but I don't think of him as an all-time type guy.
Oladipo was a fun guy to watch, and has become a better player as a pro than he was in college, which I am all in favor of, given where his skill set started when he came to IU . . . I also think OG Anunoby fits that category as well . . .
. . . my hope is that Juwan Morgan can grow into someone we look back on as fondly as any of these guys . . .
Ohhh and I am remiss at not mentioning Christian Watford . . .
You went to Southport?
Dampier was an exceptional basketball player, but was too short to be effective in the NBA after the merger. He and Billy Keller were similar players, although I think Keller might've been a little more stout . . . .
Having Artis Gilmore for a center, Dan Issel for power forward and GOOSE Ligon as a small forward helped him be successful in the ABA. (I can't remember who the shooting guard was . . . .)
I did, you? I understand all those guys helping his assist total, but it still shocks me he's the all time scoring leader. A little before my time to recollect, and see play, as I was just on the cusp of those guys at least in their ABA days, but know all those names.
What hurts some of the newer guys is that they did not play 4 years. If Zeller and Oladipo had stayed one more year I think they would make a case for the all time great list. Oladipo's first year in the NBA was a lot of these other player's senior year. 2 more years and Cody would have been a load in college.
Dampier was one of the very few players of consequence that was in the league for all 9 years of its existence.
yeah, and it's a cool bit of trivia that he'll always own. I got the mile record at my middle school, and a couple years later they changed to metric distances, so I'll forever be the mile record holder at good ol' Southport Middle. I took my son back several summers ago and we visited alot of my and his Mom's old schools, along with many IN bball sites (New Castle, Knightstown Hoosier Gym, Hinkle, Bankers Life and Cook and Assembly Hall). I digress... Southport Middle is now a township admin building but the track records are still posted in the gym, and there at the bottom.... my mile record was still up. Kind of cool for my son to see (apologies to my friend Gary who actually bested my time, but their rule was you had to win the race to get the record!).
I'm sure you're right. But...
A) Some of the others making lists (namely Isiah & McGinnis) didn't play out their eligibility.
B) These days, most players who have high pro potential coming out of HS don't stay more than a couple years. Oladipo is a special case in that he went from an unheralded 3* to the 2nd pick of the draft in the course of 3 seasons at Bloomington. But his draft position was based on potential -- and, I'd say he's proving the scouts right.
Victor spent his first few seasons in the NBA as a good, but not great, player who some thought had been drafted higher than he should. I don't think anybody's saying that after this past season, though. In other words, I'm not sure one more year at IU would've made a huge difference for him in terms of his college legacy.
That is true, I think Victor developed into a pretty solid player even leaving early. In today's game I would take him over the majority of the pre-1990's guys. He was a 13 ppg scorer his first year in the NBA. Was about 30% from NBA range 3. He was over 40% overall from the field, had about 4 assists and 4 blocks a game along with 1.6 steals. He did that against the best players in the world. He would have eaten 90% of college players alive had he stayed one more year because he would have been the rare guy who combined NBA talent with a four year career.
In favor of the older guys, they played against players from day one who would be gone after a year or two. So when a guy like Calbert Cheaney came in, he was playing against seniors who would be 2 or 3 year NBA vets on day one.
It is really hard to compare eras because of how much things have changed.
I have never forgiven Dampier for going to Kentucky instead of IU. He was one of the sweetest jump shots ever.
Bellamy was better than both and his NBA career proves it. Only person at IU who ever came close to Bellamy's rebounding ability was McGinnis.
Before my time. I though the story I heard was IU didn't recruit him? Is that not the case?
What I remember was that his high school coach, Blackie Braden, had ties with Adolph Rupp at Kentucky and did not like Branch McCracken.
Hard to leave Woodson, Buckner, and May off one of these teams, though. But can you really put Buckner over Isiah at PG? I dunno... it’s in the conversation. Isiah was obviously the better pro. But Buckner was the rock of the 75 and 76 teams. An incredible floor leader, defender, etc.[/QUOTE]
You're getting closer to my list. Not having Woodson or May amounts to near treason.
As for Isiah or Quinn, not even close. I watched Isiah in '79 blow Quinn right off the floor when the Pan Am Team played an IU elite line-up (basically the 76 roster). He hadn't started his IU career yet.
You're getting closer to my list. Not having Woodson or May amounts to near treason.
As for Isiah or Quinn, not even close. I watched Isiah in '79 blow Quinn right off the floor when the Pan Am Team played an IU elite line-up (basically the 76 roster). He hadn't started his IU career yet.
Having thought about this one for a while, I will go with
PG IT/Buckner
2G EJ/Wilkerson
SF Calbert/May
PF Big George/Tolbert
C Bellamy/Schlundt
Fun to look back on the list and see some of the greats that are not on lists, Alford, VanArsdales, Slick Leonard, Henderson, Dees, Rayl, Downing, Woodson, Vic, etc. Think Turner makes this group as well without the accident, and Larry does if he would have stayed!!
Obviously my list has 2 who only played a year and another who only played 2, I think if we went 4 deep at most positions we could have some great teams still.
PG IT/Buckner
2G EJ/Wilkerson
SF Calbert/May
PF Big George/Tolbert
C Bellamy/Schlundt
Fun to look back on the list and see some of the greats that are not on lists, Alford, VanArsdales, Slick Leonard, Henderson, Dees, Rayl, Downing, Woodson, Vic, etc. Think Turner makes this group as well without the accident, and Larry does if he would have stayed!!
Obviously my list has 2 who only played a year and another who only played 2, I think if we went 4 deep at most positions we could have some great teams still.
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Benson was a center. No way, shape or form should he be on anyone's PG list. He was 6-11 I believe.
My team is on the floor!
(Maybe I'll take Oklahoma then and have Mookie Blaylock guard Benson at PG)
Actually, looking back on my own picks, the only one that eats at my a little is Shlundt over Downing. Ernie Andres should probably be considered as well for that all-time team. The list goes on. A lot of great Hoosiers over the years. McGlocklin, Van Arsdales, Gaston, White, Guyton, Graham, Bailey. Hard to leave guys off.
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My bad, should have been Buckner, I will fix it--wish I could use the I was drunk excuse, but that would be a lie!!
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