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3 new scientific studies reach the same conclusion on COVID-19’s origin

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The multi-national team of authors of two studies released Saturday (150 pages, caveat: not yet peer-reviewed) concluded that the coronavirus was very likely present in live mammals sold at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in late 2019 and suggested that the virus spilled over into people working or shopping there on two separate occasions.

A third study was released on Friday from a Chinese group that had swabbed walls, floors and other surfaces inside the market, as well as meat still in freezers and refrigerators, right after authorities had closed the market, though no live animals remained there. They reported that the Huanan market samples included two evolutionary branches of the virus, known as lineages A and B, both of which had been circulating in early COVID cases in China. Earlier evidence had suggested that the market was only linked to lineage B, and therefore couldn’t be responsible for the initial outbreak of lineage A.

The studies together suggest at least two spillover events occurred at the market, at least one for each lineage.
press reports:


two of the papers:


“It’s an extraordinarily clear picture that the pandemic started at the Huanan market,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona.

“It’s very convincing,” said Dr. Thea Fischer, a public health researcher at the University of Copenhagen, who was not involved in the new studies. The question of whether the virus spilled over from animals “has now been settled with a very high degree of evidence, and thus confidence.”

But others pointed to some gaps that still remained. The new papers did not, for example, identify an animal at the market that spread the virus to humans.

The core info comes from a group of WHO researchers pinning down the location of the first 164 cases of COVID-19 in Wuhan over the course of December 2019. The highest density of December cases centered around the market — a relatively tiny spot in a city of 11 million people. Those cases included not just people who were initially linked to the market, but others who lived in the surrounding neighborhood.

map-who-800.png


The next 737 cases that followed emerged further and further from the market. The researchers ran tests that showed it was extremely unlikely that such a pattern could be produced merely by chance.

map-weibo-800.png

The study on collected tissues points to live animals. The researchers reconstructed the floor plan of the Huanan market based on the WHO report, the leaked Chinese CDC study and other sources. They then mapped the locations of positive environmental samples, finding that they clustered in the area where live animals were sold. Strikingly, five of the samples came from a single stall. That stall had been visited in 2014 by one of the co-authors of the new studies, Edward Holmes, a virus expert at the University of Sydney. On that trip, he had taken a photograph of a cage of raccoon dogs for sale at the time.

Below is the floor map of the market. The lower left area (red) is where live animals had been caged.

market-distribution-900.jpg

Kristian Andersen, a virus expert at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California, and the senior co-author of one of the new studies, said it was important to figure out where the wild mammals for sale at Huanan came from, and to look for evidence of past outbreaks in those places. It’s possible, for example, that villagers at the sources of that wildlife still carry antibodies from exposures to coronaviruses.

“If I had to say what would be most helpful to do now, it would be those types of studies,” he said.

--------
If you cling to “accidental lab leak” theory then I guess you could argue that it was leaked specifically to lab people who really were avid shoppers in the market, 20 milkes away, and they spread it more to shopping buddies than to coworkers. I have no reason to believe that would make any sense, though.

If you cling to “intentional lab-created bioweapon” theory then I guess you could argue that it was designed to first take out people in the market. That makes even less sense.
 
Last edited:
The multi-national team of authors of two studies released Saturday (150 pages, caveat: not yet peer-reviewed) concluded that the coronavirus was very likely present in live mammals sold at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in late 2019 and suggested that the virus spilled over into people working or shopping there on two separate occasions.

A third study was released on Friday from a Chinese group that had swabbed walls, floors and other surfaces inside the market, as well as meat still in freezers and refrigerators, right after authorities had closed the market, though no live animals remained there. They reported that the Huanan market samples included two evolutionary branches of the virus, known as lineages A and B, both of which had been circulating in early COVID cases in China. Earlier evidence had suggested that the market was only linked to lineage B, and therefore couldn’t be responsible for the initial outbreak of lineage A.

The studies together suggest at least two spillover events occurred at the market, at least one for each lineage.
press reports:


two of the papers:


“It’s an extraordinarily clear picture that the pandemic started at the Huanan market,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona.

“It’s very convincing,” said Dr. Thea Fischer, a public health researcher at the University of Copenhagen, who was not involved in the new studies. The question of whether the virus spilled over from animals “has now been settled with a very high degree of evidence, and thus confidence.”

But others pointed to some gaps that still remained. The new papers did not, for example, identify an animal at the market that spread the virus to humans.

The core info comes from a group of WHO researchers pinning down the location of the first 164 cases of COVID-19 in Wuhan over the course of December 2019. The highest density of December cases centered around the market — a relatively tiny spot in a city of 11 million people. Those cases included not just people who were initially linked to the market, but others who lived in the surrounding neighborhood.

map-who-800.png


The next 737 cases that followed emerged further and further from the market. The researchers ran tests that showed it was extremely unlikely that such a pattern could be produced merely by chance.

map-weibo-800.png

The study on collected tissues points to live animals. The researchers reconstructed the floor plan of the Huanan market based on the WHO report, the leaked Chinese CDC study and other sources. They then mapped the locations of positive environmental samples, finding that they clustered in the area where live animals were sold. Strikingly, five of the samples came from a single stall. That stall had been visited in 2014 by one of the co-authors of the new studies, Edward Holmes, a virus expert at the University of Sydney. On that trip, he had taken a photograph of a cage of raccoon dogs for sale at the time.

Below is the floor map of the market. The lower left area (red) is where live animals had been caged.

market-distribution-900.jpg

Kristian Andersen, a virus expert at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California, and the senior co-author of one of the new studies, said it was important to figure out where the wild mammals for sale at Huanan came from, and to look for evidence of past outbreaks in those places. It’s possible, for example, that villagers at the sources of that wildlife still carry antibodies from exposures to coronaviruses.

“If I had to say what would be most helpful to do now, it would be those types of studies,” he said.

--------
If you cling to “accidental lab leak” theory then I guess you could argue that it was leaked specifically to lab people who really were avid shoppers in the market. I have no reason to believe that would make any sense, though.

If you cling to “intentional lab-created bioweapon” theory then I guess you could argue that it was designed to first take out people in the market. That makes even less sense.
You are extremely naïve!
 
FYI, the map doesn't show the location of the Wuhan Insitute of Virology, but it is 20 miles away, well outside of the December 2019 heat map:

23795084-0-image-a-3_1579817027497.jpg
 
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The multi-national team of authors of two studies released Saturday (150 pages, caveat: not yet peer-reviewed) concluded that the coronavirus was very likely present in live mammals sold at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in late 2019 and suggested that the virus spilled over into people working or shopping there on two separate occasions.

A third study was released on Friday from a Chinese group that had swabbed walls, floors and other surfaces inside the market, as well as meat still in freezers and refrigerators, right after authorities had closed the market, though no live animals remained there. They reported that the Huanan market samples included two evolutionary branches of the virus, known as lineages A and B, both of which had been circulating in early COVID cases in China. Earlier evidence had suggested that the market was only linked to lineage B, and therefore couldn’t be responsible for the initial outbreak of lineage A.

The studies together suggest at least two spillover events occurred at the market, at least one for each lineage.
press reports:


two of the papers:


“It’s an extraordinarily clear picture that the pandemic started at the Huanan market,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona.

“It’s very convincing,” said Dr. Thea Fischer, a public health researcher at the University of Copenhagen, who was not involved in the new studies. The question of whether the virus spilled over from animals “has now been settled with a very high degree of evidence, and thus confidence.”

But others pointed to some gaps that still remained. The new papers did not, for example, identify an animal at the market that spread the virus to humans.

The core info comes from a group of WHO researchers pinning down the location of the first 164 cases of COVID-19 in Wuhan over the course of December 2019. The highest density of December cases centered around the market — a relatively tiny spot in a city of 11 million people. Those cases included not just people who were initially linked to the market, but others who lived in the surrounding neighborhood.

map-who-800.png


The next 737 cases that followed emerged further and further from the market. The researchers ran tests that showed it was extremely unlikely that such a pattern could be produced merely by chance.

map-weibo-800.png

The study on collected tissues points to live animals. The researchers reconstructed the floor plan of the Huanan market based on the WHO report, the leaked Chinese CDC study and other sources. They then mapped the locations of positive environmental samples, finding that they clustered in the area where live animals were sold. Strikingly, five of the samples came from a single stall. That stall had been visited in 2014 by one of the co-authors of the new studies, Edward Holmes, a virus expert at the University of Sydney. On that trip, he had taken a photograph of a cage of raccoon dogs for sale at the time.

Below is the floor map of the market. The lower left area (red) is where live animals had been caged.

market-distribution-900.jpg

Kristian Andersen, a virus expert at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California, and the senior co-author of one of the new studies, said it was important to figure out where the wild mammals for sale at Huanan came from, and to look for evidence of past outbreaks in those places. It’s possible, for example, that villagers at the sources of that wildlife still carry antibodies from exposures to coronaviruses.

“If I had to say what would be most helpful to do now, it would be those types of studies,” he said.

--------
If you cling to “accidental lab leak” theory then I guess you could argue that it was leaked specifically to lab people who really were avid shoppers in the market. I have no reason to believe that would make any sense, though.

If you cling to “intentional lab-created bioweapon” theory then I guess you could argue that it was designed to first take out people in the market. That makes even less sense.
Definitely interesting. China could’ve avoided a lot of the blame had they been more open and transparent and not so China about it.
 
You can’t prove what you posted is true! You were saying you believe communist propaganda(sic)
which authors of the two main studies are communists?

Study authors are from
U. Arizona,
Scripps Research Institute in California,
Johns Hopkins,
UC San Diego,
U. Utah,
U. Saskatchewan,
Oxford,
Erasmus U in the Netherlands,
UCLA,
UC San Diego,
U. Glasgow,
Tulane,
Rega Institute (Belgium),
University of Sydney,
U. of Seoul,
Singapore Center for Infectious Diseases,
Malaysia Genome and Vaccine Institute
 
The multi-national team of authors of two studies released Saturday (150 pages, caveat: not yet peer-reviewed) concluded that the coronavirus was very likely present in live mammals sold at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in late 2019 and suggested that the virus spilled over into people working or shopping there on two separate occasions.

A third study was released on Friday from a Chinese group that had swabbed walls, floors and other surfaces inside the market, as well as meat still in freezers and refrigerators, right after authorities had closed the market, though no live animals remained there. They reported that the Huanan market samples included two evolutionary branches of the virus, known as lineages A and B, both of which had been circulating in early COVID cases in China. Earlier evidence had suggested that the market was only linked to lineage B, and therefore couldn’t be responsible for the initial outbreak of lineage A.

The studies together suggest at least two spillover events occurred at the market, at least one for each lineage.
press reports:


two of the papers:


“It’s an extraordinarily clear picture that the pandemic started at the Huanan market,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona.

“It’s very convincing,” said Dr. Thea Fischer, a public health researcher at the University of Copenhagen, who was not involved in the new studies. The question of whether the virus spilled over from animals “has now been settled with a very high degree of evidence, and thus confidence.”

But others pointed to some gaps that still remained. The new papers did not, for example, identify an animal at the market that spread the virus to humans.

The core info comes from a group of WHO researchers pinning down the location of the first 164 cases of COVID-19 in Wuhan over the course of December 2019. The highest density of December cases centered around the market — a relatively tiny spot in a city of 11 million people. Those cases included not just people who were initially linked to the market, but others who lived in the surrounding neighborhood.

map-who-800.png


The next 737 cases that followed emerged further and further from the market. The researchers ran tests that showed it was extremely unlikely that such a pattern could be produced merely by chance.

map-weibo-800.png

The study on collected tissues points to live animals. The researchers reconstructed the floor plan of the Huanan market based on the WHO report, the leaked Chinese CDC study and other sources. They then mapped the locations of positive environmental samples, finding that they clustered in the area where live animals were sold. Strikingly, five of the samples came from a single stall. That stall had been visited in 2014 by one of the co-authors of the new studies, Edward Holmes, a virus expert at the University of Sydney. On that trip, he had taken a photograph of a cage of raccoon dogs for sale at the time.

Below is the floor map of the market. The lower left area (red) is where live animals had been caged.

market-distribution-900.jpg

Kristian Andersen, a virus expert at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California, and the senior co-author of one of the new studies, said it was important to figure out where the wild mammals for sale at Huanan came from, and to look for evidence of past outbreaks in those places. It’s possible, for example, that villagers at the sources of that wildlife still carry antibodies from exposures to coronaviruses.

“If I had to say what would be most helpful to do now, it would be those types of studies,” he said.

--------
If you cling to “accidental lab leak” theory then I guess you could argue that it was leaked specifically to lab people who really were avid shoppers in the market, 20 milkes away, and they spread it more to shopping buddies than to coworkers. I have no reason to believe that would make any sense, though.

If you cling to “intentional lab-created bioweapon” theory then I guess you could argue that it was designed to first take out people in the market. That makes even less sense.
A virus can’t “leak” from the lab can it? Doesnt it have to be carried out inside of a human for an accidental escape? How do the linked studies show that the wet market was not simply a positive breeding environment for a virus that that was conceived elsewhere?
 
A virus can’t “leak” from the lab can it? Doesnt it have to be carried out inside of a human for an accidental escape? How do the linked studies show that the wet market was not simply a positive breeding environment for a virus that that was conceived elsewhere?
The most common type of accidental lab leak would be poor handling of lab animals (e.g., no PPE, and it bit me!) or poor handling of an infected sample (e.g., not working in a fume hood with PPE, and mouth pipetting). Either way, virus would be passed to a human. Then it would presumably be passed to other nearby humans, likely co-workers. Why would it cluster 20 miles away from the accident?

"Conceived elsewhere" points at a non-accidental scenario. Again, why would the wet market area have been targeted? That has never made sense. Unless a guy planned on carrying a vial to the USA, but first stopped off at the wet market for some bat stew, and the vial fell out of his pocket.
 
That’s interesting. All this time and all these studies, and it seems as if the first thought was actually correct.
 
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A virus can’t “leak” from the lab can it? Doesnt it have to be carried out inside of a human for an accidental escape? How do the linked studies show that the wet market was not simply a positive breeding environment for a virus that that was conceived elsewhere?
Regardless of where it originated, I thought they had conclusively decided that COVID had zoonotic origins/roots. Even if it was created in a lab wholecloth, it was still created based on something that originated in animals, no?
 
Regardless of where it originated, I thought they had conclusively decided that COVID had zoonotic origins/roots. Even if it was created in a lab wholecloth, it was still created based on something that originated in animals, no?
Yes, genetic sequence analysis showed that a great many species of bats throughout Asia carry similar coronaviruses

 
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The multi-national team of authors of two studies released Saturday (150 pages, caveat: not yet peer-reviewed) concluded that the coronavirus was very likely present in live mammals sold at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in late 2019 and suggested that the virus spilled over into people working or shopping there on two separate occasions.

A third study was released on Friday from a Chinese group that had swabbed walls, floors and other surfaces inside the market, as well as meat still in freezers and refrigerators, right after authorities had closed the market, though no live animals remained there. They reported that the Huanan market samples included two evolutionary branches of the virus, known as lineages A and B, both of which had been circulating in early COVID cases in China. Earlier evidence had suggested that the market was only linked to lineage B, and therefore couldn’t be responsible for the initial outbreak of lineage A.

The studies together suggest at least two spillover events occurred at the market, at least one for each lineage.
press reports:


two of the papers:


“It’s an extraordinarily clear picture that the pandemic started at the Huanan market,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona.

“It’s very convincing,” said Dr. Thea Fischer, a public health researcher at the University of Copenhagen, who was not involved in the new studies. The question of whether the virus spilled over from animals “has now been settled with a very high degree of evidence, and thus confidence.”

But others pointed to some gaps that still remained. The new papers did not, for example, identify an animal at the market that spread the virus to humans.

The core info comes from a group of WHO researchers pinning down the location of the first 164 cases of COVID-19 in Wuhan over the course of December 2019. The highest density of December cases centered around the market — a relatively tiny spot in a city of 11 million people. Those cases included not just people who were initially linked to the market, but others who lived in the surrounding neighborhood.

map-who-800.png


The next 737 cases that followed emerged further and further from the market. The researchers ran tests that showed it was extremely unlikely that such a pattern could be produced merely by chance.

map-weibo-800.png

The study on collected tissues points to live animals. The researchers reconstructed the floor plan of the Huanan market based on the WHO report, the leaked Chinese CDC study and other sources. They then mapped the locations of positive environmental samples, finding that they clustered in the area where live animals were sold. Strikingly, five of the samples came from a single stall. That stall had been visited in 2014 by one of the co-authors of the new studies, Edward Holmes, a virus expert at the University of Sydney. On that trip, he had taken a photograph of a cage of raccoon dogs for sale at the time.

Below is the floor map of the market. The lower left area (red) is where live animals had been caged.

market-distribution-900.jpg

Kristian Andersen, a virus expert at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California, and the senior co-author of one of the new studies, said it was important to figure out where the wild mammals for sale at Huanan came from, and to look for evidence of past outbreaks in those places. It’s possible, for example, that villagers at the sources of that wildlife still carry antibodies from exposures to coronaviruses.

“If I had to say what would be most helpful to do now, it would be those types of studies,” he said.

--------
If you cling to “accidental lab leak” theory then I guess you could argue that it was leaked specifically to lab people who really were avid shoppers in the market, 20 milkes away, and they spread it more to shopping buddies than to coworkers. I have no reason to believe that would make any sense, though.

If you cling to “intentional lab-created bioweapon” theory then I guess you could argue that it was designed to first take out people in the market. That makes even less sense.
You’re far too naïve to think like an evil conspirator. If you want to perpetrate a pandemic on the world then of course you don’t want it to have come from your lab. So what do you do? You can take it to the farmers market and let it spread like crazy from there. Bill Gates originally planned to have his PCs spread like a virus across the planet so that everybody had one in their home. Now he’s moved on to bigger and better things, that’s all.
 
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blog post on the topic:


Interesting note in the comments:

Christian Drosten, the most well-known virologist and expert on Coronaviruses in Germany, has previously said that the raccoon dog was his personal best guess for a host of SARS-CoV2.
Raccoon dogs (Nyctereutes procyonoides) are kept for fur production in China. Raccoon dogs are susceptible to and efficiently transmit SARS-CoV2 and may serve as intermediate host.

That was the animal species that a past visitor to the wet market remembers being housed in the area where the most positive samples were collected.
 
The most common type of accidental lab leak would be poor handling of lab animals (e.g., no PPE, and it bit me!) or poor handling of an infected sample (e.g., not working in a fume hood with PPE, and mouth pipetting). Either way, virus would be passed to a human. Then it would presumably be passed to other nearby humans, likely co-workers. Why would it cluster 20 miles away from the accident?

"Conceived elsewhere" points at a non-accidental scenario. Again, why would the wet market area have been targeted? That has never made sense. Unless a guy planned on carrying a vial to the USA, but first stopped off at the wet market for some bat stew, and the vial fell out of his pocket.
I don’t think it’s at all inconceivable that a lab worker could carry the virus to the wet market without passing it on to other humans along the way.

It’s also my understanding that some virologists have opined that this one contains features that are very difficult to have been evolved in nature. True?
 
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blog post on the topic:


Interesting note in the comments:

Christian Drosten, the most well-known virologist and expert on Coronaviruses in Germany, has previously said that the raccoon dog was his personal best guess for a host of SARS-CoV2.
Raccoon dogs (Nyctereutes procyonoides) are kept for fur production in China. Raccoon dogs are susceptible to and efficiently transmit SARS-CoV2 and may serve as intermediate host.

That was the animal species that a past visitor to the wet market remembers being housed in the area where the most positive samples were collected.
Raccoon dogs. Oh my God I just looked that thing up. It's neither dog nor raccoon; just kind of it's own monster. Frightening. I'd rather have Covid again then find that thing on the porch
 
blog post on the topic:


Interesting note in the comments:

Christian Drosten, the most well-known virologist and expert on Coronaviruses in Germany, has previously said that the raccoon dog was his personal best guess for a host of SARS-CoV2.
Raccoon dogs (Nyctereutes procyonoides) are kept for fur production in China. Raccoon dogs are susceptible to and efficiently transmit SARS-CoV2 and may serve as intermediate host.

That was the animal species that a past visitor to the wet market remembers being housed in the area where the most positive samples were collected.
He called the raccoon dog as a strong candidate for an intermediate host.

 
I don’t think it’s at all inconceivable that a lab worker could carry the virus to the wet market without passing it on to other humans along the way.

It’s also my understanding that some virologists have opined that this one contains features that are very difficult to have been evolved in nature. True?
on the last point: Kristian Anderson of Scripps (lead author of one of the papers in this thread) originally emailed Dr. Fauci and said that he was concerned by features of the genetic sequence that looks odd / rare to him (one was something called a "furin cleavage site") and suggested the possibility of human engineering. That e-mail is prominent amongst the bioweapon theorist's arguments.

Problem is, Kristian then did a lot more research. Turned out that the odd-looking sequence was not so odd at all. In fact it was natural in many Asian bat coronaviruses. He found one more than 99% similar. Then he published the paper claiming that the very high similarly showed a clear zoonotic ("from nature") origin.

Laughably, people discredit Kristian Anderson's conclusion by trotting out the email to Fauci and don't realize that it had been written by Kristian Anderson, before he knew that he was wrong!

As to the first part. Say I'm a lab worker that eventually gets sick after the damn bat bit me. I'm super infectious for (say) 3 days before I feel too bad to function. Day 1 I am at work all day then go home. Day 2 after work I go to the market & then go home. Day three I go to work then go home sick.

Think of all of the people I encountered at work, at home, going home, going to the market, and (finally) in the market for likely a short time. Is it likely that the ONLY people I passed it on to were some poor saps at the market?
 
He called the raccoon dog as a strong candidate for an intermediate host.

Yes

We don't know if the animal in the market was an intermediate host or the original host. The former would be more common. people have argued, for example, that a Pangolin had been infected by a bat. pangolins are way more common wet market animals than bats. I guess raccoon dogs are too.
 
on the last point: Kristian Anderson of Scripps (lead author of one of the papers in this thread) originally emailed Dr. Fauci and said that he was concerned by features of the genetic sequence that looks odd / rare to him (one was something called a "furin cleavage site") and suggested the possibility of human engineering. That e-mail is prominent amongst the bioweapon theorist's arguments.

Problem is, Kristian then did a lot more research. Turned out that the odd-looking sequence was not so odd at all. In fact it was natural in many Asian bat coronaviruses. He found one more than 99% similar. Then he published the paper claiming that the very high similarly showed a clear zoonotic ("from nature") origin.

Laughably, people discredit Kristian Anderson's conclusion by trotting out the email to Fauci and don't realize that it had been written by Kristian Anderson, before he knew that he was wrong!

As to the first part. Say I'm a lab worker that eventually gets sick after the damn bat bit me. I'm super infectious for (say) 3 days before I feel too bad to function. Day 1 I am at work all day then go home. Day 2 after work I go to the market & then go home. Day three I go to work then go home sick.

Think of all of the people I encountered at work, at home, going home, going to the market, and (finally) in the market for likely a short time. Is it likely that the ONLY people I passed it on to were some poor saps at the market?
I had a HAI case once. My experts all said that evidence of how microbes go from point A to point B is always and only circumstantial. There are a lot of variables. Especially if we are dealing with a single infected lab worker.
 
A single infected lab worker with an infection that has an R-naught value >3.

He isn't passing it on to one person, and the 3 people that will get it are most likely the three that he was in contact with the MOST, such that they breathed in the most particles that he exhaled. Sure, there can be randomness, and maybe it was an oddball happenstance. But at least recognize that it WOULD BE an oddball happenstance if everyone he gave it to were people at a market that the likely visted only a short time (It was 20 miles away from work).
 
which authors of the two main studies are communists?

Study authors are from
U. Arizona,
Scripps Research Institute in California,
Johns Hopkins,
UC San Diego,
U. Utah,
U. Saskatchewan,
Oxford,
Erasmus U in the Netherlands,
UCLA,
UC San Diego,
U. Glasgow,
Tulane,
Rega Institute (Belgium),
University of Sydney,
U. of Seoul,
Singapore Center for Infectious Diseases,
Malaysia Genome and Vaccine Institute
Since they’re mostly university affiliated, I’m sure Lucy would say all of them are communists.
 
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He isn't passing it on to one person, and the 3 people that will get it are most likely the three that he was in contact with the MOST, such that they breathed in the most particles that he exhaled. Sure, there can be randomness, and maybe it was an oddball happenstance. But at least recognize that it WOULD BE an oddball happenstance.

So where does Fauci fit in? Since we all know he was behind this thing.
 
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A single infected lab worker with an infection that has an R-naught value >3.

He isn't passing it on to one person, and the 3 people that will get it are most likely the three that he was in contact with the MOST, such that they breathed in the most particles that he exhaled. Sure, there can be randomness, and maybe it was an oddball happenstance. But at least recognize that it WOULD BE an oddball happenstance if everyone he gave it to were people at a market that the likely visted only a short time (It was 20 miles away from work).

I live 25 miles from my office. I stopped by the Kroger 1 mile from my home after work. I spent a hour shopping. If I am infected, yet asymptomatic, could I not spread it? Couldn't an infected worker stop by the wet market multiple times in a week and spread it without knowing it?
 
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I live 25 miles from my office. I stopped by the Kroger 1 mile from my home after work. I spent a hour shopping. If I am infected, yet asymptomatic, could I not spread it? Couldn't an infected worker stop by the wet market multiple times in a week and spread it without knowing it?
Could you? Yes.

Is it as LIKELY to be spreading it only to people in the grocery store and NOT to the people you spent 20x more time with? No.
 
The multi-national team of authors of two studies released Saturday (150 pages, caveat: not yet peer-reviewed) concluded that the coronavirus was very likely present in live mammals sold at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in late 2019 and suggested that the virus spilled over into people working or shopping there on two separate occasions.

A third study was released on Friday from a Chinese group that had swabbed walls, floors and other surfaces inside the market, as well as meat still in freezers and refrigerators, right after authorities had closed the market, though no live animals remained there. They reported that the Huanan market samples included two evolutionary branches of the virus, known as lineages A and B, both of which had been circulating in early COVID cases in China. Earlier evidence had suggested that the market was only linked to lineage B, and therefore couldn’t be responsible for the initial outbreak of lineage A.

The studies together suggest at least two spillover events occurred at the market, at least one for each lineage.
press reports:


two of the papers:


“It’s an extraordinarily clear picture that the pandemic started at the Huanan market,” said Michael Worobey, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Arizona.

“It’s very convincing,” said Dr. Thea Fischer, a public health researcher at the University of Copenhagen, who was not involved in the new studies. The question of whether the virus spilled over from animals “has now been settled with a very high degree of evidence, and thus confidence.”

But others pointed to some gaps that still remained. The new papers did not, for example, identify an animal at the market that spread the virus to humans.

The core info comes from a group of WHO researchers pinning down the location of the first 164 cases of COVID-19 in Wuhan over the course of December 2019. The highest density of December cases centered around the market — a relatively tiny spot in a city of 11 million people. Those cases included not just people who were initially linked to the market, but others who lived in the surrounding neighborhood.

map-who-800.png


The next 737 cases that followed emerged further and further from the market. The researchers ran tests that showed it was extremely unlikely that such a pattern could be produced merely by chance.

map-weibo-800.png

The study on collected tissues points to live animals. The researchers reconstructed the floor plan of the Huanan market based on the WHO report, the leaked Chinese CDC study and other sources. They then mapped the locations of positive environmental samples, finding that they clustered in the area where live animals were sold. Strikingly, five of the samples came from a single stall. That stall had been visited in 2014 by one of the co-authors of the new studies, Edward Holmes, a virus expert at the University of Sydney. On that trip, he had taken a photograph of a cage of raccoon dogs for sale at the time.

Below is the floor map of the market. The lower left area (red) is where live animals had been caged.

market-distribution-900.jpg

Kristian Andersen, a virus expert at the Scripps Research Institute in La Jolla, California, and the senior co-author of one of the new studies, said it was important to figure out where the wild mammals for sale at Huanan came from, and to look for evidence of past outbreaks in those places. It’s possible, for example, that villagers at the sources of that wildlife still carry antibodies from exposures to coronaviruses.

“If I had to say what would be most helpful to do now, it would be those types of studies,” he said.

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If you cling to “accidental lab leak” theory then I guess you could argue that it was leaked specifically to lab people who really were avid shoppers in the market, 20 milkes away, and they spread it more to shopping buddies than to coworkers. I have no reason to believe that would make any sense, though.

If you cling to “intentional lab-created bioweapon” theory then I guess you could argue that it was designed to first take out people in the market. That makes even less sense.
So we can call it “Wuhan virus” again.

And we can hate the USSR.

Old times!
 
I live 25 miles from my office. I stopped by the Kroger 1 mile from my home after work. I spent a hour shopping. If I am infected, yet asymptomatic, could I not spread it? Couldn't an infected worker stop by the wet market multiple times in a week and spread it without knowing it?

But not spread anywhere else, like at work where people presumably spend more time.

It isn't so much questioning that as an original hot spot but that it is the only hot spot. The lab area should have been a hot spot at the same time if it had originated there.
 
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Could you? Yes.

Is it as LIKELY to be spreading it only to people in the grocery store and NOT to the people you spent 20x more time with? No.

What people did I spend 20x more time with? Co-workers? If I worked at a virology lab, I am probably in a protective suit all say. Family or friends? Possibly, but I live close to the wet market, then most of them are within close proximity of me.

I did not read all the details if the report, nor am I doubting it. But I am skeptical and asking questions. And I appreciate your answers as best you know.
 
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But not spread anywhere else, like at work where you presumably spend more time.

It isn't so much questioning that as an original hot spot but that it is the only hot spot. The lab area should have been a hot spot at the same time if it had originated there.

Do they not wear protective suits at a virology lab? I leave work, get out of my suit, hop in my car, drive to Kroger, then home. And then the next day, hop in my car, back into my suit for 8 hours, then back home. My only contact with people not wearing my protective gear is outside of work.
 
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luckily the Chinese govt, or any govt, and the moneyed interests who funded the lab, never lie.

noooooo, they would never do that.

you think the Chinese govt, or other govt's who helped fund this, or others who funded the lab, are going to come out and admit they made the fk up of all time, and deliberately created this out of a level of criminally negligent stupidity and insanity that makes those waiting in Dallas for JFK and Jr to drive by, look intelligent???

no, they aren't.

DUH! gee, what a shock.

the virus itself has markers that show it was engineered, but those who pointed that out tend to get disappeared or defunded.

and being defunded is seen by scientists, academics, and universities, on the same level as being disappeared.

just how brain dead level stupid are people?

the virus came from the lab.
 
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Show us your research, please...
His research is politics like everything else. To these guys science doesn’t exist only partisan politics. Whatever the conservatives are serving up politically shapes the beliefs regardless of the lack of evidence or facts. This is why we have a group who believes in inane conspiracies, alternative facts, and if he gives the word, is about to once again nominate a pathological liar for their Presidential candidate.
 
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