First, having an opinion that is not that of those who see only positives with the program is not trolling. Expressing something other than a cheerleader approach is not trolling. Certain folks always work in personal attacks, including trolling, when questions or concerns are raised. I thought this was a message board, not a Varsity Club sponsored talk. Second, indicating coaching success when you are jam packed with stud offensive players is simply a reach. In my mind the jury is out on our OC and I want to see another year. However, what was done at Tenn with the talent brought in by Jones in his first few years as HC (who were upper class-men in 2016) means very little to me. Sorry, that does not make him a good, great or bad coach. It means he can do well with loads of talent. How he does at IU (not as loaded with talent) is still to be determined, at least in my mind.
2018 IUFB Schedule
- Thread starter IndyIUFan66
- Start date
Your first sentence is absolutely true. It’s not true when the poster in question has a user name that is literally “go Hoosiers not” and has done nothing but start stupid threads over the past few months.
Also, what coaches win without any talent?
I haven't said anything derogatory about Debord in months. Months. I've played that vein out enough. Everyone knows I dislike Debord. Care to find anything more recent? Didn't think so.
I think his most underrated contribution might be suggesting that a $170 million facilities capital campaign, raised through private donations, is a “handout” from the conference. That’s the type of hard hitting analysis you can’t find on other message boards.
You've wasted all that time digging up quotes, only to fabricate this here statement. SMH.
He explained his username, I respectfully suggest you get past that. No post of his in this thread is anything like what you highlighted.
I did not say without talent. If you don't think offensive success at Tenn in 2016 with that group of players was easier from a coaching perspective, well there is nothing I can say. You can keep delivering party line but some of us have no problem hearing both sides, including concerns. Last I checked, it was not just one guy's board.
You can't undo first impressions. You came here as a supposed adult, of your own free will, and chose to start with the grampa stuff. That level of sophomoric commentary continued for months. I know better than to judge a book by its cover, but we're halfway through "War and Peace" and now you want us to view you as a thoughtful, nuanced and mature adult. Sorry, but I'm putting the book back in the rack, turns out the cover hid only blank sheets.
Not saying that Purdue's staff is significantly worse by any means, just that I would only characterize Holt as a significant step up to any of IU's assistants.
It is the right of the employer to enforce workplace rules. It's the emplyees right to seek employment elsewhere. So exercise you 1st amendment rights with consequences kn mind. Its my opinion that the players should be fired for disrespecting the symbols that remind us of the freedoms that men and women have died protecting. Or don't play the anthem or raise the flag for your games.
And as a veteran I say that if you are teaching our young people to disrespect the flag and anthem in ways lime the nfl pmayers I say fire you as well.
Though shouldn't be individuals exercising a freedom be a greater reminder/symbol of freedom than a flag?
Plus, disrespect is in the eye of the beholder. The NFL players were quietly kneeling (which can itself be a sign of respect - church, players in front of a coach, etc). Its not like they were dropping their pants or flipping the bird.
Jeff Brohm is a way better OC than Debord and Brian Brohm is better than Nick Sheridan. I don't know who their receivers coach is but what he did with their lack of talent was miraculous. Whoever coaches their St has cojones for sure.
At the risk of becoming too political, I believe everyone can say whatever they want so long as it doesn't infringe on the liberties of others (libel, slander, intent to deceive and do harm, etc). The day we censor people for their views is the day we give up our constitutional rights as Americans. These days of "you insulted me, I'm offended, I feel disrespected" on both the right and left is just too much and going too far. In my opinion if you don't like something then say something because you have the right and obligation to do so.
Jeff is not an assistant and Brian was a nepotism hire with a quarter the experience of Sheridan. Brian just had 2 QBs that were quite a bit better than what Sheridan had to work with if you are focusing on this years production.
Fair point about Jeff.
However, no one can ever convince me that Purdue had more talent than IU. That's impossible. What Brian did with the pick6 machine that was Blough and one ACL Sindelar was gold. Furthermore, I'll take Brian's NFL experience over Sheridan tutelage as GA under Debord. He's been tainted.
I was taught as a kid that our flag, anthem, and edge of allegience have meaning beyond political boundaries.
In the military I was taught to stand at attention and salute those symbols. That carried on when I transitioned to become a veteran. I now stand upright, remove my hat, face the flag, and place my right hand over my heart. Every time I get the opportunity to do so makes me feel proud and fortunate to be an American.
I live across the street from a youth baseball/softball complex and if I am in my yard working I will stop to honor our colors.
I guess it means more to me than others. I gave up everything nfl because they had a code of conduct that outlined how their high paid employees should act and they didn't enforce the rules. Our young people are learning from their actions and it is sickening. Visit your local VFW or American Legion if you want to learn why you should stand and recognize our colors and anthem.
IDK with regards to all of this crap. Theres no line in the sand. Kneeling during the national anthem...I was just brought up different my mom and dad would have beat me silly for kneeling. IDK if kapernick was really doing it to protest or to get attention. He seemed to come up with a story though and stuck with it. I quit watching...I used to enjoy tuning in because I enjoyed the sport. I don't enjoy grandstanding so f*ck it and them IMO.
Same goes for Hollywood. Them trying to tell me how to live my life when they live in the most f*cked up bubble on the planet.
I do not disagree with you. However, a right is a right. We have free speech and it shouldn't be taken away. If enough people wanted to do something, they can stop watching the NFL and stop paying tens of thousands of dollars for tickets. No one is forcing them to watch. Why don't they buy IU football tickets instead?
More power to you and your right to choose what you spend your time and money one.
This veteran thanks you for your service and explaining why the flag and anthem mean so much to us. I too gave up the NFL due to the protest, players and the NFL made a mistake with a protest they have a right to. It is clear with the decline in viewership and attendance players have hurt the NFL. I just don't understand why the players didn't figure out their mistake and change there protest so more fans would support them. It seems they just don't understand the disrespect so many see in kneeling for the anthem. Is it their privilege or lack of service that causes them to ignore the harm they have done?
You need to study the U.S. Constitution and do some lengthy research on the Supreme Court and free speech case history. There is a difference between "workplace rules" and compelling employees to participate in a patriotic salute. There is a reason the NFL hasn't challenged the players in court, the league knows it doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Compelling a patriotic salute is no different than trying to force employees to pray in the workplace. Both of those things violate the First Amendment rights of individual citizens. It's your right to despise the actions of the players and to boycott the NFL, but it isn't any man's right to forbid them to peacefully protest what they perceive as injustice. Unless their employer can prove that the protest is interfering with their job performance, no court in the country is going to side with the league. Has anyone with any credibility even begun to suggest that the players taking a knee played less hard for their team than any other ?
The fact that you can't determine the difference between my respect for the Constitution and disrespect for the flag tells me that you either had a lousy Government teacher or that you didn't pay attention in Government class in high school. Hitler had people executed for failing to show proper respect for the German flag or other national symbols. Every tyrant and despot in the history of man has made compulsory displays of loyalty to national emblems a major part of his agenda.
I respect and appreciate your service, but the flag and the Constitution do not belong to you any more than any other citizen of this country. It gives you no greater right to indignation than any of the rest of us. I would hope that your defense of this country was based more on the sanctity of the First Amendment and the desire to protect the precious rights of ALL of your fellow citizens than your desire to protect a symbol.
I don't consider myself a liberal. I'm not a veteran but many members of my family are. My son-in-law served 5 years in the Marine Corps, including a tour in Afghanistan. A future son-in-law is currently serving in the U.S. Army. My brother is a disabled Navy vet (who happens to share my view of the NFL protests). Wanting to punish people for peacefully protesting what they see as injustice for the sake of not having to be offended by their protest is a knee-jerk reaction. I would urge you to think a little deeper about what that could potentially mean for any and all of us who wanted change in our government's policies.
Allowing employers to decide what First Amendment rights their employees are entitled to is a dangerous course. Far more dangerous in my opinion than expecting those employers to tolerate employee political beliefs which the employer doesn't share. Would you allow a Democrat boss in the workplace to fire employees who voted Republican or who put pro-Trump bumper stickers on the cars they parked in the company lot ? That's a pretty slippery slope if you ask me.
I love my country for a multitude of reasons and I feel blessed to have had the great fortune to have been born in the greatest country on Earth. Among the reasons I feel so fortunate is the knowledge that those in power cannot take away my right to criticize them or work for change where I find flaws. If being offended by what I might perceive as others' lack of gratitude or patriotism toward this nation is the price I pay for the freedom to speak up myself, I'm more than willing to tolerate the dissent of others. The freedom to speak freely and to peacefully protest are far more important to me than the right to not be offended by the actions of others.
I'm old enough to remember TV images of black teenagers being firehosed and attacked by dogs for having the audacity to peacefully march in the streets of Alabama. I remember watching the Mexico City Olympics and the outrage of people who thought John Carlos and his teammates should be tarred and feathered for calling attention to racial injustice in America. I remember hearing narrow-minded and ignorant bigots rejoice in the assassination of Martin Luther King. I vividly remember old men in my dad's barbershop wanting college students jailed or deported for protesting against the war in Vietnam. Those attitudes look pretty stupid in the lens of history.
I didn't say the players don't have cause for protest. I said that I am personally offended that they chose the celebration of our colors to demonstrate. They can go to he// as far as I am concerned.
And as for the nfl...stop raising old glory and playing the national anthem at your games if you can't respect what it stands for.
You have every right to be offended and to boycott the game. That's a far cry from advocating that players (and teachers) be fired for failing to meet your standard of respect. As for not playing the anthem and raising the flag, the actions of individual players do not necessarily reflect the views of ownership or the vast majority of paying customers. What would be the logic of terminating a ceremony that the overwhelming majority of people in attendance expect and support? Should 70,000 people be denied the opportunity to pay respect to the nation because a handful of people choose not to ? My advice is to ignore the protesters and use the anthem playing as a time for personal reflection and thanksgiving. Live and let live, and accept that the price of freedom is the tolerance of dissent.
So what you are saying is these protests are okay. Why are they protesting? Police injustice in black neighborhoods? Black people are oppressed? What is it? Ohhh maybe it doesn't matter. Why is it okay to kneel while the anthem is played? Because the 1st amendment?
What about desecration of the flag of the United States? Why is it punishable by 1 year imprisonment? Ever wonder why this kneeling subject is such a sore topic regarding our national anthem and the flag?
Police injustice in black neighborhoods...Think about that. All these black kids watching their (God forbid I say it) heroes kneel before the national anthem. How well do you think thats gonna bode for the future of that kid that thinks its okay? How far will he or she go to protest when they get older?
Eventually peaceful protests keep pushing boundaries. Lets stand in the road and block traffic. Guess what these people are getting run over by people that have a job to do because they work! OR protests that are not getting their point across turn violent. You see the Berkley protest last year? Burnt crap, broke windows, threw rocks, destroyed property. But thats okay its Berkley
The reason they protested in Berkley because someone wanted to give a speech (1st amendment) and they didn't think that was okay
Black people are oppressed...Think about that. How are they oppressed? Who's fault is that? Who did that to them? AND yet the players that kneel are loaded with money and are bitching about it and protest the very flag that represents the reason they are loaded. They aren't leaving to another country because the oppty. is not there.
Why protest why not do something about it.
There is no line...In God we trust? Hahaha That got completely sh!t all over.
Anyways this country and racism has gone completely backwards. We just had a black president for 8 years and its bad. I thought he would change that. Black neighborhoods are exploding with crime and murder.
Anyone who lives here in Indy... every morning we wake up to shootings and murders. EVERY DAMN DAY! It got worse under Obama and unless someone does something about it its going to continue to get worse. NFL players are always grandstanding that they give back???? Get your asses back into the neighborhoods you grew up in and get through in a positive way to these kids that look up to you! Protest doesn't do anything these days except stir the masses and create violence.
Man when I grew up in Elkhart Indiana the high school was in turmoil because of racial tension. (Early 70's) Fights, fires, stabbings it was in bad shape.
NOBODY PROTESTED!
My mom was involved in Habitat for Humanity. She and two other white moms and 3 black moms started an interracial rap. We were in junior high and started having meetings with kids from black neighborhoods. We spread the word and learned a lot about each other. Went to plays together, the ebony building in Chicago, museums together. We got so big and popular the kkk actually burned crosses at some of our meeting locations. We didn't care.
Bottom line the community came together and there were no more problems.
So while you want to protest what are you really doing? Go do something about it rather than stir up trouble! jmho!
Last edited:
The answer to every question in your first paragraph is: yes. Your assertion in the second paragraph is incorrect. Desecration of the flag as a form of protest is not punishable (Texas v. Johnson).So what you are saying is these protests are okay. Why are they protesting? Police injustice in black neighborhoods? Black people are oppressed? What is it? Ohhh maybe it doesn't matter. Why is it okay to kneel while the anthem is played? Because the 1st amendment?
What about desecration of the flag of the United States? Why is it punishable by 1 year imprisonment? Ever wonder why this kneeling subject is such a sore topic regarding our national anthem and the flag?
Police injustice in black neighborhoods...Think about that. All these black kids watching their (God forbid I say it) heroes kneel before the national anthem. How well do you think thats gonna bode for the future of that kid that thinks its okay? How far will he or she go to protest when they get older?
Eventually peaceful protests keep pushing boundaries. Lets stand in the road and block traffic. Guess what these people are getting run over by people that have a job to do because they work! OR protests that are not getting their point across turn violent. You see the Berkley protest last year? Burnt crap, broke windows, threw rocks, destroyed property. But thats okay its Berkley
The reason they protested in Berkley because someone wanted to give a speech (1st amendment) and they didn't think that was okay
Black people are oppressed...Think about that. How are they oppressed? Who's fault is that? Who did that to them? AND yet the players that kneel are loaded with money and are bitching about it and protest the very flag that represents the reason they are loaded. They aren't leaving to another country because the oppty. is not there.
Why protest why not do something about it.
There is no line...In God we trust? Hahaha That got completely sh!t all over.
Anyways this country and racism has gone completely backwards. We just had a black president for 8 years and its bad. I thought he would change that. Black neighborhoods are exploding with crime and murder.
Anyone who lives here in Indy... every morning we wake up to shootings and murders. EVERY DAMN DAY! It got worse under Obama and unless someone does something about it its going to continue to get worse. NFL players are always grandstanding that they give back???? Get your asses back into the neighborhoods you grew up in and get through in a positive way to these kids that look up to you! Protest doesn't do anything these days except stir the masses and create violence.
Man when I grew up in Elkhart Indiana the high school was in turmoil because of racial tension. (Early 70's) Fights, fires, stabbings it was in bad shape.
NOBODY PROTESTED!
My mom was involved in Habitat for Humanity. She and two other white moms and 3 black moms started an interracial rap. We were in junior high and started having meetings with kids from black neighborhoods. We spread the word and learned a lot about each other. Went to plays together, the ebony building in Chicago, museums together. We got so big and popular the kkk actually burned crosses at some of our meeting locations. We didn't care.
Bottom line the community came together and there were no more problems.
So while you want to protest what are you really doing? Go do something about it rather than stir up trouble! jmho!
The rest of your rambling diatribe is largely indecipherable. I wouldn't know where to start so I won't continue to engage. I'm sure the rest of the board will appreciate that as well.
I apologize to those who wish to focus on football for contributing to this off-topic distraction and promise on my part to now let it die.
I would expect nothing less from a cowardly protest supporter. Doing something about the cause is better than standing there and bitching about it! Ive been involved on the doing something side.
My Lord this thread fell off the rails. Time to move on all of you - you're not going to convince each other that you're right.
Similar threads
