ADVERTISEMENT

Would we even care if Trump is guilty?

Wicki Leaks hacks the DNC and Clintons computer, they give the dirt and it is dirt, to the Russians and they give it to Trump. Regardless of his incompetence, is this a crime?
 
Wicki Leaks hacks the DNC and Clintons computer, they give the dirt and it is dirt, to the Russians and they give it to Trump. Regardless of his incompetence, is this a crime?

If Wikileaks steals your bicycle and gives it to Vladimir Putin and Vladimir Putin gives it to me (and I know it was stolen), is it a crime?
 
Trump and the gang that can't shoot straight on one side, Hilary, with the emails, the $250,000 a pop Goldman Sachs/Wall street speeches while between SOS and running for prez, Bill with his speech income. ($22 mil for speaking between Bill and Hilary).

what a choice we had between 2 pathetic losers.


and what a disappointment Obama was. (Wall St/big banks lackey in "brothers" clothing).

nobody's claiming GW was brilliant on lamenting he's not still prez.

Reagan ends the growth of the middle class "Forever", and initiates it's regression, while he once championed the working man. (and is worshiped by masses of total idiots who are totally blind to that fact).

can we really not do any better?
 
Wicki Leaks hacks the DNC and Clintons computer, they give the dirt and it is dirt, to the Russians and they give it to Trump. Regardless of his incompetence, is this a crime?

Is that not an in kind campaign contribution from a foreign entity? I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
 
The Fox piece presumes that Trump is like Bill Clinton, who lied about a blow job. But it wasn't just the Democratic base that didn't give a shit about that.

The House impeached Clinton on December 19, 1998. That's when his job approval rating peaked at 73 percent. We have yet to learn what high crimes and misdemeanors Trump may have committed, but I doubt he's getting any blow jobs, and he's never going to see a job approval rating of 73 percent.

Trump's right about his core supporters, though. They're rubes.
 
Wicki Leaks hacks the DNC and Clintons computer, they give the dirt and it is dirt, to the Russians and they give it to Trump. Regardless of his incompetence, is this a crime?

Likely, yes.

We have campaign finance laws. That would be foreign (illegal) contributions to a campaign.
 
The Fox piece presumes that Trump is like Bill Clinton, who lied about a blow job. But it wasn't just the Democratic base that didn't give a shit about that.

The House impeached Clinton on December 19, 1998. That's when his job approval rating peaked at 73 percent. We have yet to learn what high crimes and misdemeanors Trump may have committed, but I doubt he's getting any blow jobs, and he's never going to see a job approval rating of 73 percent.

Trump's right about his core supporters, though. They're rubes.


Impeachment is a political tool. Nothing really more, or less.

We will see if it plays out that way again. If there was anyone that deserved a 'no confidence' level vote, it's this idiot.
 
I wish we had such a system

Ours can and will work. But it's not ideally fitted to modern society.
I'd be willing to say that a true republic may still be the best for small, homogeneous states, but for most modern nation-states, I think it's pretty clear that the best form of government is a constitutional monarchy based on the Westminster system. And even it has its problems, but it's the better of several bad choices. Bagehot deftly described the flaws in our system 150 years ago. Trump embodies much of what he warned about.
 
I'd be willing to say that a true republic may still be the best for small, homogeneous states, but for most modern nation-states, I think it's pretty clear that the best form of government is a constitutional monarchy based on the Westminster system. And even it has its problems, but it's the better of several bad choices. Bagehot deftly described the flaws in our system 150 years ago. Trump embodies much of what he warned about.

Have no clue who you are referring to there...but would like to know
 
Have no clue who you are referring to there...but would like to know
Walter Bagehot (in true British fashion, pronounced "Badgett") was editor of The Economist during and after the (American) Civil War. He wrote The English Constitution, which famously outlined how the British government worked and the role of Parliament vis-a-vis the Crown*. He also compared the British system to the American system, and described why he felt the British system was ultimately superior. He famously argued that a presidential government was more concerned with putting forward good candidates than choosing good executives, and that America only made it work because our people had "a genius for politics." In addition, he felt the fixed terms of presidents hindered government's ability to respond to crises, whereas a parliamentary system could replace leadership as needed based on immediate exigencies (see Chamberlain/Churchill, perhaps, as a future example of his point).

He also decried populism, and was not a fan of an expanded franchise, which grates modern sensibilities, but any time you hear someone say, "Of course I didn't vote for no Muslim from Kenya," you kind of get where he was coming from. He greatly feared competency giving way to the will of the "ignorant masses."

* His most important contribution had nothing to do with America, but with his description of the role of the monarch. He was the one who defined the monarch's three rights as "the right to be consulted, the right to encourage, and the right to warn." He's been called the author of the British Constitution because, by the end of Victoria's reign, the relationship he had first described decades earlier had become an entrenched constitutional principle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: T.M.P. and twenty02
I like a parliamentary system as well but I see no reason to add a monarch into the equation. The original author was writing during the very zenith of the British Empire, so I understand his point of view but I don't want to add noble birth as a factor into our system. At least the British tourism makes money off of the Royals but they have a unique history which makes it all work. Our system has worked pretty well but Donald Trump does expose how flawed the system could get but hopefully we never elect anyone like him again.

Perhaps we needed a Donald Trump to force us to correct our problems?
 
Last edited:
I like a parliamentary system as well but I see no reason to add a monarch into the equation. The original author was writing during the very zenith of the British Empire, so I understand his point of view but I don't want to add noble birth as a factor into our system. At least the British tourism makes money off of the Royals but they have a unique history which makes it all work. Our system has worked pretty well but Donald Trump does expose how flawed the system could get but hopefully we never elect anyone like him again.

Perhaps we needed a Donald Trump to force us to correct our problems?

You get your fair share of idiots in the parliamentary system too:

Predappio_28_ottobre_2013.jpg


Fascism and freedom: pick one!
 
I can't remember (and can't find) the author or the title, but a book was written in the early 70s by a former LBJ admin member about how the US system suffered from combining the Head of State and the Head of Government into the single President. His thesis was that combining the two vested more power in the President than was best, and allowed for more deference to the executive than what was intended by the Founders.
 
I like a parliamentary system as well but I see no reason to add a monarch into the equation. The original author was writing during the very zenith of the British Empire, so I understand his point of view but I don't want to add noble birth as a factor into our system. At least the British tourism makes money off of the Royals but they have a unique history which makes it all work. Our system has worked pretty well but Donald Trump does expose how flawed the system could get but hopefully we never elect anyone like him again.

Perhaps we needed a Donald Trump to force us to correct our problems?
Just think if Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton died in office. Do we really want Billy Carter and Roger Clinton in the White House?
 
I'd be willing to say that a true republic may still be the best for small, homogeneous states, but for most modern nation-states, I think it's pretty clear that the best form of government is a constitutional monarchy based on the Westminster system. And even it has its problems, but it's the better of several bad choices. Bagehot deftly described the flaws in our system 150 years ago. Trump embodies much of what he warned about.
The constitutional system is more about self governing than being governed. If people can't self rule then they have to be ruled. Is this what you are saying? You don't have faith that people can self rule?
 
I like a parliamentary system as well but I see no reason to add a monarch into the equation. The original author was writing during the very zenith of the British Empire, so I understand his point of view but I don't want to add noble birth as a factor into our system. At least the British tourism makes money off of the Royals but they have a unique history which makes it all work. Our system has worked pretty well but Donald Trump does expose how flawed the system could get but hopefully we never elect anyone like him again.

Perhaps we needed a Donald Trump to force us to correct our problems?
Besides what Mark said, the monarch also serves as a constitutional safeguard in times when democratic rule is threatened. See Juan Carlos and the 23-F coup attempt.
 
Just think if Jimmy Carter or Bill Clinton died in office. Do we really want Billy Carter and Roger Clinton in the White House?
The constitutional system is more about self governing than being governed. If people can't self rule then they have to be ruled. Is this what you are saying? You don't have faith that people can self rule?
Huh?
 
  • Like
Reactions: T.M.P.
I can't remember (and can't find) the author or the title, but a book was written in the early 70s by a former LBJ admin member about how the US system suffered from combining the Head of State and the Head of Government into the single President.
George Reedy, The Twilight of the Presidency.

http://supreme.findlaw.com/legal-commentary/the-best-book-on-the-presidency.html


A Brief Overview Of George Reedy's Classic

Reedy's general concern is quite simple. He believed darkness was falling on the office of the president because the modern presidency had become an institution that, by its nature, kept a president out of touch with the country he must lead and the real problems he must solve. The modern president, Reedy explained, is cut off from those who will tell him the truth, and surrounded instead by "yes men" who tell him only what he wants to hear.

As a one-time insider, Reedy found that the presidency had become a uniquely American monarchy, an institution never contemplated by our founders. There are few checks on the man (or perhaps in the future, woman) elected to this office, other than his (or her) own character. The office is, in effect, a stage - a focal place that magnifies a president's weaknesses, and often ignores his strengths.

With good reason, Reedy is not at all certain that the checks and balances of the Constitution, along with the powers of the media, are sufficient to assure that the executive branch is really properly serving the American people. To a remarkable extent, he explains, the president can do what he wishes, independent of what the people want, and what is in their interest.​
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT