not arguing that point. Blame to go around. But Howard was patient zero. Before the lineup....no reason to press at that point. Just dribble out and go home.
Wiscy just > P.
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If a car is merging into your car you can let him hit you or move out of the way. Either way it will be his fault, but you could have prevented it.
If I recall Gard's explanation, it makes sense: you're coaching to win games, so does he "need" to coach up his backups on breaking a press? Probably not, but it's conceivable they could be in a game at crunch time and if he says he saw a coaching point he wanted to make, no better time than right then, when they can get some immediate game feedback. That's no lamer an excuse than pressing at the end after the game is decided, and if he was doing it to tweak Howard, so be it, it was within the rules. Entirely on Howard in my book.
Right. I'm sure with the emotions present after a game, you're going to let another Coach say something snarky to you, and put his finger in your face and not say anything. I wouldn't have said nothing to a Coach who did that to me after one of our 12U rec league games, let alone a college game where we're both paid millions. With the competitive makeup of these guys, very few aren't going to say something. 100% on Howard in my book, and I'd say the league agreed.
Gard could have laughed, said or thought scoreboard, and kept walking. The adult, classy, and correct thing to do would be just keep walking. They won the game: there is nothing else that needs to be said. A person makes a decision to engage somebody or not, and it takes two to tango. It was obvious Howard was looking for a fight: if you engage somebody like this, there is going to be a fight. It is not a good, adult policy to fight every jackass that wants to fight.
If Howard did 100% of the actions and Gard did 0%, then nothing would have happened.
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For a driving analogy, it was more like a car crossing a dashed yellow line into oncoming traffic to pass you, and you accelerate instead of slowing down.
So it’s other people’s job to ignore and avoid hot heads? If Howard wanted to be ignored, he shouldn’t have walked thru the line and talked crap. He opened himself up to a response and then flew off the handle.
Your argument is like saying someone should be raped for wearing a short skirt and tight top. While the outfit may be a contributing factor, the person committing the crime is a 100% at fault.
Yes, it is the job of an adult with class to not engage jackasses in a fight.
The rape analogy is as bad of an analogy as I have seen. We are talking about two grown men, and Howard wasn't forcing himself onto Gard. Gard could have easily walked on by.
These guys are all competitive by nature. I don't believe there's anyway you're going to allow someone to get in your face wagging a finger at your nose and criticizing you for taking a timeout, when they were pressing at the end and not say anything. Earlier you said he could've said "scoreboard", but the reality is, Howard was going to escalate if he said anything. Howard is a HC in the same league, why is it on Gard not to say anything, and you're giving Howard, the obvious aggressor, a free pass? Could Gard have said nothing? Sure. Would it have ended it? I'm not certain it would have because I think Howard was intent on tracking him down and making his point. Ironic to have this discussion here. Aren't you one of the more ardent, RMK walks on water guys? You think he's not saying anything? Laughable. From what I saw, Gard just defended his actions, and didn't escalate, so yes, from what I saw, 100% on Howard.
Terrible analogy because the short skirt is no way a contributing/escalating factor.
I used the analogy above that it was more like a car crossing a dashed yellow line into oncoming traffic to pass you, and you accelerate instead of slowing down.
VanPastorMan
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Someone needed to be the adult in the room.
Both Coaches passed on that option.
Both Coaches passed on that option.
When did I give Howard a free pass? He was the jackass and bigger player: you are preaching to the choir. However, that doesn't give Gard a "free pass" to also be a jackass and engage him. Being an adult with class includes the ability to control yourself. Gard got fined for a reason.
Without the punch being thrown, nobody would question what Gard did. You are blaming him after the fact for stopping Juwan and talking to him. Those are in his right to do if Juwan walks thru the handshake line. Just like a girl can wear skimpy clothes and flirt without being at fault for being assaulted.
Three days? It was more like 8 hours. Purdue was named #1 around noon on a Monday. Eight hours later they lost to Rutgers, who at that time had losses to Depaul, Lafayette, UMass, and Illinois. But, to be fair, Rutgers did have impressive victories over the Lehigh Mountain Hawks, the Merrimack Warriors, and the NJIT Highlanders.
Nyuk, nyuk.
I'd agree: he got fined for a reason! Gard was never out of control and to me only appeared to defend his actions. It's each coaches perogative to play how they want and take their alloted timeouts, regardless. You, as a coach, may not like it, but those are the rules. As is behaving with decorum, and shaking the other team and coaches hands after the game. Gard did all of that to me, until he was confronted by an angry coach. I don't expect, nor fault, him not to defend his actions if they were within the rules of the game.
Howard was jawing, but I don't think he was necessarily looking for a fight. He was also clearly avoiding eye contact with Gard and was trying to walk past him, until Gard grabbed Howard and got in Howard's face and stepped in front of Howard so he couldn't keep walking.
I think the only reason Gard wasn't even more involved in the melee and was that a cop was able to pull Gard away from the crowd while Howard got boxed in between the scorers table and 3 Wisky assistants one of whom pushed a Michigan player a few times.
Howard was needlessly hot, but I think that if Gard just says "f' off" (a more in-kind response) to Howard instead of grabbing him, there would have just been a shouting match as both walked away from each other.
Also, the whole incident rubs the wrong way with how the Wisconsin's AD publicly announced that they were going to pay Gard's fine, in effect absolving him of any wrong doing, which was lesser than Howard's but still significant.
we'll have to agree to disagree. I expect any HC, at any level, to shake my players and my hand after the game, and if I get a blow by, I'm going to get to that coach and find out what the deal is. In this day and age, if there's an altercation, no league anywhere, isn't issuing some kind of punishment to both coaches, if one gets something. Just ain't happenin. The disparity in severity of the penalty, makes it obvious who was at fault, and it's as close to "no wrongdoing" as any conference is going to issue nowadays imo.
Zero Defects -- they try to minimize turnovers (of whatever kind) and maximize shots with an acceptable shot percentage. Not a bad idea, but to some people it's boring.
However, the Wisconsin playing style isn't likely to succeed in the NCAA Tournament, because their games will be handled by refs from other conferences that are expecting to see Steph Curry-style or Loyola-Marymount-style trigger-finger three-pointers or Phi Slamma Jamma-dunks and that's not they get to see.
And, quick question: Wisconsin took advantage of the current shot clock rules, double foul shot rules, alternating possession rules, flagrant foul rules for elbows that are naturally higher than the other guy's chin, arc under the basket rules and technical foul rules for taunting and/or staring etc. that traditionally did not exist in some past years and still drove up the score on Purdue to a whopping 70-67 victory.
Wow. What impressive scoring. This is a typical Knight-era score under the old rules that allowed endless motion offense, no shot clock, no double bonus etc.
Seriously, can someone refer me to a website that documents whether college teams are actually scoring more now than they did 25 years ago under the earlier rules? I'm just not seeing more scoring.
In the NCAA tournament, if Gard did that, he would be called for blocking Howard. Gard was just plain wrong in stepping in front of Howard and grabbing his arm. This would be at least a minor criminal battery offense on any street in the U.S. The fact that Howard committed a worse offense later (hitting/slapping an asst coach) does not immunize Gard for his stupid behavior earlier.
However, the ultimate problem is that the exalted NCAA has no mechanism for ensuring proper behavior in the handshake line or in the post-game press conferences -- absolutely none whatsoever. There is absolutely no counterpart of a referee on the scene to judge whether a player or coach misbehaved or whether something was said in the handshake line that was not picked up by the media microphones.
The NCAA should declare the handshake lines and post-game podiums as no-man's zones and quit acting like it is in charge of them, since the NCAA isn't prepared. Stupid is as stupid does, but very often arrogant is as the NCAA does.
Then call the coach after the game when he has cooled off. Blocking somebody's path and grabbing them was the wrong move. If you want to block the path and grab every madman you encounter on the street, it is your funeral. Most adults have better things to do.
Except for the part where Howard was flanked on the left by the press tables, scorers' tables, stands etc. and was flanked on the right by, well, Gard himself and player peacemaker/ diplomat Brad Davison and the Wisconsin fans. Even Wisconsin asst coaches wouldn't leave him alone.
Gee, where does your plan provide some other place for Howard to go?
He could walk backwards to the locker room at any point. But don’t let the facts get in your way.
Except for the part that after all that other stuff you described, Gard stepped in front of Howard and grabbed his arm.
Gard's post-game behavior against an opposing coach was not excused by anything the referees supposedly and privately explained to Gard about the in-game rules about the clock and timeouts 20 minutes earlier.
The NCAA needs a way to monitor post-game behavior with actual witnesses/officials or leave it alone..
What "facts" do you refer to?
Don't just say there are "facts" somewhere. Man up and tell us (if you can).
Very simple. The fact that you said “Gee, where does your plan provide some other place for Howard to go?” and he had an easy solution of going away from the place where he punched someone in the face. I normally assume everyone is decently smart but I’ll stop making the assumption for you if you would like to keep acting otherwise.
Except he didn’t get in his face or wag his finger until he was grabbed and stopped by the other coach.
I feel Ike this whole conversation is just trying to point blame on the idiot. Can we all agree they both acted idiotic and Howard was a bigger idiot?
I believe that everyone understands that the polls come out on a weekly basis, but thanks.
I also figured that everyone understands the difference between “your” and ‘you’re.”
But I guess not for Purdue fans.
I also figured that everyone understands the difference between “your” and ‘you’re.”
But I guess not for Purdue fans.
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