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Wilson-Wommack Report

I disagree about Lynch. He was a solid hire at the time who had the misfortune of at least 2 lost recruiting classes to to Hep's cancer. He went 7-5 his first year and, after dropping off 2 years due to those lost recruiting classes, came back to have a solid 2010 season.

People didn't like Lynch because he was low-key and not very dynamic. But he was a well-respected coach in Indiana who had improved steadily after his first year here. He was not the 'epitome of an awful hire'.
ha No, I don't like Lynch because he was an awful coach. 2010 might've been his worst year and he had all of his recruits. That was the year he should've done something to show he was capable. He won 2 total conf games combined in 09 and 10. He had plenty of time to do vastly better than that. There is absolutely no way to cover up just how awful Bill Lynch was as a football coach.
 
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That isn't really telling the whole picture though. In 2010 we played 4 non-conf cupcakes and PU was our only conference win. Townson, Akron, Arkansas State, Western Kentucky. In 2011 we added a P5 school to the schedule.

IU went to the bowl in 07 and IU is a program where that was a pinnacle year and then we knew we would need some time to rebuild. 2010 was supposed to be the next pinnacle year and we maxed out at 5 wins, with that awful schedule. To that, the starters from 2010, QB Ben Chappell, RB - Tre Burgess, WR- Terrance Turner all graduated and WR - Tandon Doss went pro. Wilson had to completely remake that offense and instill a fighting culture back in the program after Myrtle the Turtle was out. 2010 defense gave up 34ppg with the 75th ranked schedule. In 2011 Wilson had the 47th ranked schedule.
As I said, Wilson ran off a lot of scholarship players.

I realize we don't agree on this and that's OK.
 
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ha No, I don't like Lynch because he was an awful coach. 2010 might've been his worst year and he had all of his recruits. That was the year he should've done something to show he was capable. He won 2 total conf games combined in 09 and 10. He had plenty of time to do vastly better than that. There is absolutely no way to cover up just how awful Bill Lynch was as a football coach.
We were very competitive in 2010 and, as I said, were 1 dropped pass against Iowa from another bowl game.
 
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We were very competitive in 2010 and, as I said, were 1 dropped pass against Iowa from another bowl game.
I know you're not being confrontational, it's a solid debate but I can't let this one slide is all.

In Lynch's final season, he barely beat Arkansas State (36-34) who lost to Troy among others. We lost by 30 to an unranked Illinois team. Lastly, Bill also made us a reoccurring AFLAC trivia question that year, by waffling stomping a turd into a shower drain in Camp Randall when his defense gave up 83 flippin points to Wisconsin! If that was his first year, he should've been let go, let alone his last year.
 
We can be fairly certain that Allen wouldn't have run off scholarship players at the rate Wilson did his first year.

Wilson's first year failure was of his own making. He wanted to start from scratch, and that's what he did.
We have roughly 25 transfer players in our two deeps but are still limited to 85 total scholarship players. Not all of the kids who left (creating those 25 open spots) did so “voluntarily”. Running kids off takes on many forms, and it has for years. But we have many, many transfer kids for a reason.
 
I know you're not being confrontational, it's a solid debate but I can't let this one slide is all.

In Lynch's final season, he barely beat Arkansas State (36-34) who lost to Troy among others. We lost by 30 to an unranked Illinois team. Lastly, Bill also made us a reoccurring AFLAC trivia question that year, by waffling stomping a turd into a shower drain in Camp Randall when his defense gave up 83 flippin points to Wisconsin! If that was his first year, he should've been let go, let alone his last year.
You want me to recite all the curb stompings we've had? Or Wilson's teams struggling against inferior talent?

You don't like Lynch, I get it. But let's not act like he was some abnormally bad IU coach.
 
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You want me to recited all the curb stompings we've had? Or Wilson's teams struggling against inferior talent?

You don't like Lynch, I get it. But let's not act like he was some abnormally bad IU coach.
Sure. Again, it's not just the curb stompings but 83 points is a whole other level for a 4th year head coach who was on staff before he became HC. That was just one of the many factors I have been outlining. It was him taking over a program that was ready to turn the corner, coasting that year with Heps roster and then falling drastically. We act like he lost recruiting classes, but he was on the staff already, so any lost recruits are another blemish on him, not an excuse for his short comings.

I am just shocked because I simply thought it was universally known and accepted that he was IU's version of Danny Hope.
 
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I would be curious what CTA would've done if he had started his coaching career with the same 2011 roster and coaching budget limitations as Coach Wilson did. Wilson took on arguably the worst P5 school and transformed it, improving almost every year. He took our recruiting classes from dog doo and was just starting to get IU closer to where it should be. We were suddenly competing in big games and were an overthrown pass in the endzone from beating Ohio State. Tom Allen took over a team going to the Foster Farm bowl and fell off his first year, but then hired Deboer (who ran a similar style offense to Wilson) and IU was the best it had been in some time but once he left, the wheels have seemed to fall off.

This year is still TBD and I'm not saying Wilson didn't deserve to be canned but I can't sit here realistically and say the stats you provided tell the whole picture.
Personally very disappointed in Wilson's departure and the reasons behind it. He most definitely turned the program over and recruited better than BL. Should have been given time.
 
Sure. Again, it's not just the curb stompings but 83 points is a whole other level for a 4th year head coach who was on staff before he became HC. That was just one of the many factors I have been outlining. It was him taking over a program that was ready to turn the corner, coasting that year with Heps roster and then falling drastically. We act like he lost recruiting classes, but he was on the staff already, so any lost recruits are another blemish on him, not an excuse for his short comings.

I am just shocked because I simply thought it was universally known and accepted that he was IU's version of Danny Hope.
Hep found out he had cancer after his initial season and then gets progressively worse and you think it shouldn't have affected recruiting? Or that it's on Lynch that recruiting wasn't better? You think Purdue and every other school wasn't throwing that in recruits' faces?

We don't just 'act like he lost recruiting classes', because it's a fact he did. I can't believe you are actually blaming Lynch for recruiting in that situation.
 
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My (possibly faulty) impression is that TA inherited a more talented roster than KW. TA was a “continuity hire”, while KW was a “burn it down and start from scratch (or at least he made it that?) hire.

I think we can agree neither has set the college FB world on fire.
And also CKW had focused on recruiting better defensive players prior to CTAs arrival. Allen inherited arguably the best combo of LB’s and DB’s in my memory and as they moved on his defenses struggled.
 
I disagree about Lynch. He was a solid hire at the time who had the misfortune of at least 2 lost recruiting classes to to Hep's cancer. He went 7-5 his first year and, after dropping off 2 years due to those lost recruiting classes, came back to have a solid 2010 season.

People didn't like Lynch because he was low-key and not very dynamic. But he was a well-respected coach in Indiana who had improved steadily after his first year here. He was not the 'epitome of an awful hire'.

The legend of Bill Lynch. Known around the Midwest as Billy “The Gumslinger” Lynch.

Playing at Michigan, Pass is simultaneously caught by Roby and the DB. They fall to the turf. Under the rules that apply in normal football, the offense retains possession. However, this was Indiana and so they awarded an interception to Michigan.
 
The legend of Bill Lynch. Known around the Midwest as Billy “The Gumslinger” Lynch.

Playing at Michigan, Pass is simultaneously caught by Roby and the DB. They fall to the turf. Under the rules that apply in normal football, the offense retains possession. However, this was Indiana and so they awarded an interception to Michigan.
Just one of many instances. I was at the PSU game at Beaver Stadium and we were playing them tough. A clear hold in front of God and everyone helped PSU score a decisive TD.

And remember when one of the TV NFL announcers said IU got screwed against Iowa?
 
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Just one of many instances. I was at the PSU game at Beaver Stadium and we were playing them tough. A clear hold in front of God and everyone helped PSU score a decisive TD.

And remember when one of the TV NFL announcers said IU got screwed against Iowa?

Apart from the Wisconsin game, IU was competitive that year with pretty much its entire schedule.
I was appalled that Glass decided to “sell” a home game with Penn State to play at Fed-Ex field in Landover, MD. That was Glass’ first year as AD, 2010.
 
Apart from the Wisconsin game, IU was competitive that year with pretty much its entire schedule.
I was appalled that Glass decided to “sell” a home game with Penn State to play at Fed-Ex field in Landover, MD. That was Glass’ first year as AD, 2010.
Glass would have sold his mother to raise money. That's why he was brought in.

I do give him credit for raising the profile of IU football while AD - he was always visible at the games around the tailgates before the game in his football golf cart.

But selling that Penn State game was too much. I hope we never do anything like that again.
 
Glass would have sold his mother to raise money. That's why he was brought in.

I do give him credit for raising the profile of IU football while AD - he was always visible at the games around the tailgates before the game in his football golf cart.

But selling that Penn State game was too much. I hope we never do anything like that again.
I hated the fact that the game was sold. Fred accomplished a lot prior to making the decision to retire. He is uniquely well connected and a stellar fund raiser.

That said, at IU you will be judged by BB first and FB second and his record is spotted. Wonder what might have been had he been allowed to move on Crean earlier before a BOT former BB player finally had to help him get it done.

Shoulda Coulda Woulda
 
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The legend of Bill Lynch. Known around the Midwest as Billy “The Gumslinger” Lynch.

Playing at Michigan, Pass is simultaneously caught by Roby and the DB. They fall to the turf. Under the rules that apply in normal football, the offense retains possession. However, this was Indiana and so they awarded an interception to Michigan.
Among a number of calls over the years just like this. I recall an IU receiver levitating two inches above the Hawkeye end zone turf for four feet until out of bounds negating the TD
 
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I hated the fact that the game was sold. Fred accomplished a lot prior to making the decision to retire. He is uniquely well connected and a stellar fund raiser.

That said, at IU you will be judged by BB first and FB second and his record is spotted. Wonder what might have been had he been allowed to move on Crean earlier before a BOT former BB player finally had to help him get it done.

Shoulda Coulda Woulda
The same Crean who won Two (2) B1G Championship Rings? That Crean?
 
Hep found out he had cancer after his initial season and then gets progressively worse and you think it shouldn't have affected recruiting? Or that it's on Lynch that recruiting wasn't better? You think Purdue and every other school wasn't throwing that in recruits' faces?

We don't just 'act like he lost recruiting classes', because it's a fact he did. I can't believe you are actually blaming Lynch for recruiting in that situation.

Between 02-04, DiNardo’s classes were ranked 81, 59, 59 (avg 66th)
Between 05-06, Heps classes were ranked 72, 84 (avg 78th)
Between 07-10, BL’s classes were ranked 97, 78, 59, 92 (avg. 82nd)
Between 11-16, CKW classes were ranked 59, 67, 38, 38, 49, 54 (avg. 51st)

Even taking out BL’s first class, it’s still 76th, so blaming recruiting is a false narrative. All of his top talent was gone the year he left so 2011 was going to be a rebuild regardless.

BL was 3-21 in the B1G his last 3 years at IU. Then you look at the fact that IU had more balanced schedules as there was no divisions while BL was coach. The first divisions (leaders vs legends) began in CKW’s first year, where Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin (was really good then) were in IU’s division. It seems slightly more balanced than the current east/west split but UM wasn't good then, and they thought Nebraska would be good so back then it was just as unbalanced. BL had every opportunity to succeed, and he just fell short in every category.

He was 30-34 at Ball State over his 8-year coaching career there. His first two years he was over .500. His last five years there he never broke .500 and within those 5 years he had back-to-back seasons of 1-10 followed by 0-11. After IU he went to D3 DePauw who was in the D3 playoffs before BL arrived in 09 and 10. Lynch was there from 2013-2019 (w/no playoffs) then in 21 and 22 they were back in the playoffs again. Coincidental? Again, super nice guy who can throw gum with the best of them but not a great head coach.
 
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Between 02-04, DiNardo’s classes were ranked 81, 59, 59 (avg 66th)
Between 05-06, Heps classes were ranked 72, 84 (avg 78th)
Between 07-10, BL’s classes were ranked 97, 78, 59, 92 (avg. 82nd)
Between 11-16, CKW classes were ranked 59, 67, 38, 38, 49, 54 (avg. 51st)

Even taking out BL’s first class, it’s still 76th, so blaming recruiting is a false narrative. All of his top talent was gone the year he left so 2011 was going to be a rebuild regardless.

BL was 3-21 in the B1G his last 3 years at IU. Then you look at the fact that IU had more balanced schedules as there was no divisions while BL was coach. The first divisions (leaders vs legends) began in CKW’s first year, where Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin (was really good then) were in IU’s division. It seems slightly more balanced than the current east/west split but UM wasn't good then, and they thought Nebraska would be good so back then it was just as unbalanced. BL had every opportunity to succeed, and he just fell short in every category.

He was 30-34 at Ball State over his 8-year coaching career there. His first two years he was over .500. His last five years there he never broke .500 and within those 5 years he had back-to-back seasons of 1-10 followed by 0-11. After IU he went to D3 DePauw who was in the D3 playoffs before BL arrived in 09 and 10. Lynch was there from 2013-2019 (w/no playoffs) then in 21 and 22 they were back in the playoffs again. Coincidental? Again, super nice guy who can throw gum with the best of them but not a great head coach.
Wow, I thought we judged coaches by their records, not their recruiting ranks.

Did you know Micah McFadden was a 2 star and was the leading tackler for the Giants last weekend?

Sorry - recruiting doesn't mean shit to me. Allen has had some pretty good classes, according to recruiting rankings - and you saw what the last 2 years were like. Look how many of our starters are transfers today.
 
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ha No, I don't like Lynch because he was an awful coach. 2010 might've been his worst year and he had all of his recruits. That was the year he should've done something to show he was capable. He won 2 total conf games combined in 09 and 10. He had plenty of time to do vastly better than that. There is absolutely no way to cover up just how awful Bill Lynch was as a football coach.
2 conference wins in 2 years? That's about the same as the last 2 years right?
 
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I disagree about Lynch. He was a solid hire at the time who had the misfortune of at least 2 lost recruiting classes to to Hep's cancer. He went 7-5 his first year and, after dropping off 2 years due to those lost recruiting classes, came back to have a solid 2010 season.

Sorry - recruiting doesn't mean shit to me. Allen has had some pretty good classes, according to recruiting rankings - and you saw what the last 2 years were like. Look how many of our starters are transfers today.

Which one is it? You brought recruiting into your excuses for Bill Lynch. You said he did bad because he lost 2 years of recruiting classes. But when he was 4 years in (just as HC) and had a bowl appearance in his recruiting back pocket, he pulled in a 92nd ranked class. There was literally nothing to look forward to as we finished 2010 and were looking at 2011 with the mass departure of top-end talent that year. His goose was cooked unless he did something spectacular in 2010. Giving up 83 points was indeed spectacular, just not for him.

You can deflect and start saying recruiting doesn't mean shit to you as if I was the one who brought that into the discussion. Yes, there are always going to be diamonds in the rough low rated players you might find and coaching is equally as important. But in either instance, BL was the coach so either he needed those better recruits that you don't give a shit about, or he did an awful job coaching his recruits up. Either way, the end result leaves me baffled as to how you think so highly of his coaching acumen. Are you related?
 
2 conference wins in 2 years? That's about the same as the last 2 years right?
Precisely, I agree.

It's hard to find a whole lot of big positives the last 2 seasons. CTA played 6 top 10 opponents those 2 years compared to 4 for Lynch? That's hardly a great excuse. Either a coach cuts it or they don't. People often sugar coat 2020 as a mirage and 2021 wasn't shocking at all but to return the talent we had along with adding the great incoming class then not winning a single B1G game? We had just won all but one conference game the year prior. Had the PU game not been cancelled, that would've certainly been a 7-1 conf record. We also choked a 13pt lead with 5 mins to go vs UT in the Gator Bowl. Penix didn't go down until week 5 in 2021. He went down in week 6 in 2020.

But yes, the last 2 seasons were pretty darn awful.
 
Which one is it? You brought recruiting into your excuses for Bill Lynch. You said he did bad because he lost 2 years of recruiting classes. But when he was 4 years in (just as HC) and had a bowl appearance in his recruiting back pocket, he pulled in a 92nd ranked class. There was literally nothing to look forward to as we finished 2010 and were looking at 2011 with the mass departure of top-end talent that year. His goose was cooked unless he did something spectacular in 2010. Giving up 83 points was indeed spectacular, just not for him.

You can deflect and start saying recruiting doesn't mean shit to you as if I was the one who brought that into the discussion. Yes, there are always going to be diamonds in the rough low rated players you might find and coaching is equally as important. But in either instance, BL was the coach so either he needed those better recruits that you don't give a shit about, or he did an awful job coaching his recruits up. Either way, the end result leaves me baffled as to how you think so highly of his coaching acumen. Are you related?
I said recruiting - not ratings. There's a difference and I pointed that out.

Related? Seriously? Are you related to Wilson?
 
Personally very disappointed in Wilson's departure and the reasons behind it. He most definitely turned the program over and recruited better than BL. Should have been given time.
He failed the list that the AD gave him to keep his job. It is clear OSU was too forgiving and taking him as a coach and he still hasn't stopped drinking a lot at Tulsa.
 
Which one is it? You brought recruiting into your excuses for Bill Lynch. You said he did bad because he lost 2 years of recruiting classes. But when he was 4 years in (just as HC) and had a bowl appearance in his recruiting back pocket, he pulled in a 92nd ranked class. There was literally nothing to look forward to as we finished 2010 and were looking at 2011 with the mass departure of top-end talent that year. His goose was cooked unless he did something spectacular in 2010. Giving up 83 points was indeed spectacular, just not for him.

You can deflect and start saying recruiting doesn't mean shit to you as if I was the one who brought that into the discussion. Yes, there are always going to be diamonds in the rough low rated players you might find and coaching is equally as important. But in either instance, BL was the coach so either he needed those better recruits that you don't give a shit about, or he did an awful job coaching his recruits up. Either way, the end result leaves me baffled as to how you think so highly of his coaching acumen. Are you related?
My players said that our HS practices were tougher than Lynch had at BSU. Our practices weren't so tough just we couldn't waste time with a bus picking up the players. My guess players didn't like coming to those practices after hearing from IU players.
 
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I said recruiting - not ratings. There's a difference and I pointed that out.

Related? Seriously? Are you related to Wilson?
Nah, I already told you I wasn't a big fan of him. I simply said he did better than BL but that bar is quite low. I'd even give DiNardo the nod over BL and he was awful.
 
Yeah I know because Wilson drank too much and Allen quotes the scriptures
I don’t think Fred Glass was much concerned about religion. It could’ve been drinking. Could’ve been too many rude responses to alumni or media. Best bet was “inartful“ communications with players rehabbing injuries and medical staff overseeing that issue. IU dodged a bullet regarding that issue with football and an outside investigation, but had other sports where coaches crossed the line between encouraging better rehab efforts and demanding performance from injured players. At a time when any injury in any sport was receiving increased attention, “well crafted” discussions were very important. Wilson never struck anyone as engaging in “well crafted” communications.
 
South Alabama shutting out Oklahoma State at Oklahoma State. I’m equal parts ecstatic for him and sad for us.
Wommack will get promoted to a bigger job before we have an opening.

Dolson deserves a lot more flack than what he has got for that ridiculous extension/buyout. How big of a rube must he be if he could get fleeced that bad by Tom Allen?
 
I have no other opinions because I liked Lynch and a QB that smokes weed (if the rumors were true) doesn't bother me either.
It wasn't weed. The same substance was what led Dakich to clean house on the basketball team that year. They were literally concerned about players showing up for games.
 
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