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Will Langford Make All Big Ten

If I would have posted prior to the season that Romeo was going to average 17 points, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, and shoot 45% from the field, people would have been ecstatic. No one had any issues with Romeo, until we started losing games and people started looking for scapegoats, for Archie.

Romeo is having one of the best freshmen seasons in IU history. He most likely going to be freshmen of the year, 3rd team all conference, and a lottery pick. He has had a great year.



This is revisionist history.

I bumped a thread from October about expectations concerning RL--as you can see, the #s you mention would not have made most fans "ecstatic". Nor would him being 3rd team ABT.

RL was projected as a 3rd team preseason AA by ESPN & CBS. ESPN listed him as the #15 player in the country. Mark Rutherford of SB Nation listed him as #13. Jason McIntyre of BigLead listed him as #9 and said of him: Trae Young range and a Tracy McGrady takeover ability. Sleeper to lead the conference in scoring". He was 1/10 players listed by 28 writers at BT media days as pre-season ABT, and was picked UNANIMOUSLY as the freshman of the year in the BT.

So the expectations you state were not those of most fans or of the media.

I'm not saying that's uncommon or unusual. If you look through the first 31 players of ESPN's top 100 preseason (Morgan was #31), many did not have years reflecting that ranking.
 
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This is what I'm talking about. He's having one of the best freshman season's in history???

C'mon.

Again we are exaggerating his accomplishments and forcing him into this superstardom narrative that he frankly hasn't earned this year.

Again I ask, where are the wins? Where are the clutch plays? Where are the awe inspiring moments?

There has been as many WTF moments than awe inspiring moments.

Zeller came in and impacted winning from his first step in to the court.

Before him Gordon did the same.

Hell even everyone knew AJ Guyton was a player from his first minute, as much as everyone knew that Andrae Patterson and Charlie Miller were not.

Same for Delray Brooks (he was the #3 ranked prospect who couldn't hit from outside of ten feet and ended up transferring to Providence. You knew the minute you saw him scrimmage that the hype was too much).

Isaiah was a superstar his first minute.

Anyway,

I've said it a thousand times, I truly believe his wrist is a bigger issue than is being let on because if Romeo, who was considered the best shooting guard in his class and was compared to guys from Monk to Kobe, could actually SHOOT than bang....yes he's doing legit superstar things scoring inside and out, being nearly unguardable like Eric Gordon was.

He's had a good year. Definitely hasn't busted like Grimes or Shittu and maybe Little, but let's stop thinking that we're witnessing something spectacular, on a team that's barely over .500 right now.



It sure seems to me, without looking at the stats, that Gordon was more impactful early on than was Romeo. Gordon's season trailed off once he hurt his hand (?) and was no longer able to shoot 3s effectively. Romeo was very good against Marquette but otherwise the most glaring thing about him early on was missing so many 3s and FTs. I think a lot of people early on, including me, assumed he'd pull out of it and start to dominate. As you say, he has improved, but not to the point of what I would call "domination". As you also mentioned, is a lot of this due to RL's hand injury. I sure don't know, but wouldn't be surprised if it comes out after the season ends that the injury played a major part.
 
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This is what I'm talking about. He's having one of the best freshman season's in history???

C'mon.

Again we are exaggerating his accomplishments and forcing him into this superstardom narrative that he frankly hasn't earned this year.

Again I ask, where are the wins? Where are the clutch plays? Where are the awe inspiring moments?

There has been as many WTF moments than awe inspiring moments.

Zeller came in and impacted winning from his first step in to the court.

Before him Gordon did the same.

Hell even everyone knew AJ Guyton was a player from his first minute, as much as everyone knew that Andrae Patterson and Charlie Miller were not.

Same for Delray Brooks (he was the #3 ranked prospect who couldn't hit from outside of ten feet and ended up transferring to Providence. You knew the minute you saw him scrimmage that the hype was too much).

Isaiah was a superstar his first minute.

Anyway,

I've said it a thousand times, I truly believe his wrist is a bigger issue than is being let on because if Romeo, who was considered the best shooting guard in his class and was compared to guys from Monk to Kobe, could actually SHOOT than bang....yes he's doing legit superstar things scoring inside and out, being nearly unguardable like Eric Gordon was.

He's had a good year. Definitely hasn't busted like Grimes or Shittu and maybe Little, but let's stop thinking that we're witnessing something spectacular, on a team that's barely over .500 right now.

To be clear, I stated IU history. If you throw out people's idiotic/crazy expectations and look at his numbers objectively, he's had one of the greatest freshmen seasons in IU history.

I agree Thomas (unfortunately, I wasn't alive to see it) and Gordon were better. Those are also the two best seasons ever, for freshmen, at IU.


A quick list of the best freshmen at IU, IMO:

1. Thomas
2. Gordon
3. Woodson
4. Cheaney
5. Alford
6. Romeo
7. Zeller

I think Romeo falls somewhere in the 5-7 range and it's fair to say he is having one of the greatest freshmen seasons in IU history. Guyton's freshmen season wasn't better than Romeo's. He averaged 13.6 points and shot 43.5% from the field. To be clear, Guyton, did have a great freshmen season. Zeller's is debatable. Zeller played on a much better team and a lot of his points came from being set up by his teammates. Every player has WTF moments and struggle in games. Zeller's last game, his sophomore year, for example. It happens to all players.

We might be getting bogged down in semantics. If you agree that it's at least one of the top 10 seasons, by a freshmen, then were on the same page and just using different adjectives to describe him.
 
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THIS! The Delray Brooks comparison comes to mind for me. Romeo's better than Brooks but neither are/were stars.


The Delray Brooks comparison is a step too far. Delray was a legit bust, RL has not been. And we don't yet know if RL's issues are due to injury.
 
Interesting.... I think he is second team all B1G, possibly could slide to 3rd. Morgan on the other hand has slid down the list IMO, especially if they factor in only B1G 10 play.

Romeo will be as good as he wants to be in the NBA, the attributes are all there. We will see what his mental makeup and drive to excel are made of as we watch his NBA career. He hasn't been the "GOD" the hype made him seem to be coming in to college. But then again, he's a freshman. And like somebody posted above, how many freshmen not named Zion are doing better?
 
To be clear, I stated IU history. If you throw out people's idiotic/crazy expectations and look at his numbers objectively, he's had one of the greatest freshmen seasons in IU history.

I agree Thomas (unfortunately, I wasn't alive to see it) and Gordon were better. Those are also the two best seasons ever, for freshmen, at IU.


A quick list of the best freshmen at IU, IMO:

1. Thomas
2. Gordon
3. Woodson
4. Cheaney
5. Alford
6. Romeo
7. Zeller

I think Romeo falls somewhere in the 5-7 range and it's fair to say he is having one of the greatest freshmen seasons in IU history. Guyton's freshmen season wasn't better than Romeo's. He averaged 13.6 points and shot 43.5% from the field. To be clear, Guyton, did have a great freshmen season. Zeller's is debatable. Zeller played on a much better team and a lot of his points came from being set up by his teammates. Every player has WTF moments and struggle in games. Zeller's last game, his sophomore year, for example. It happens to all players.

We might be getting bogged down in semantics. If you agree that it's at least one of the top 10 seasons, by a freshmen, then were on the same page and were just using different adjectives to describe him.


Here's the difference between Romeo and all the players you listed above. He's a OAD and that has changed ALL of your expectations. Imagine right now if you were thinking of what will come when he plays the next 2 or 3 years for IU. You would be feeling GREAT about him. But he's leaving, so there's a sense of letdown. And that is the OAD train people. It doesn't work unless more are boarding as others depart.
 
To be clear, I stated IU history. If you throw out people's idiotic/crazy expectations and look at his numbers objectively, he's had one of the greatest freshmen seasons in IU history.

I agree Thomas (unfortunately, I wasn't alive to see it) and Gordon were better. Those are also the two best seasons ever, for freshmen, at IU.


A quick list of the best freshmen at IU, IMO:

1. Thomas
2. Gordon
3. Woodson
4. Cheaney
5. Alford
6. Romeo
7. Zeller

I think Romeo falls somewhere in the 5-7 range and it's fair to say he is having one of the greatest freshmen seasons in IU history. Guyton's freshmen season wasn't better than Romeo's. He averaged 13.6 points and shot 43.5% from the field. To be clear, Guyton, did have a great freshmen season. Zeller's is debatable. Zeller played on a much better team and a lot of his points came from being set up by his teammates. Every player has WTF moments and struggle in games. Zeller's last game, his sophomore year, for example. It happens to all players.

We might be getting bogged down in semantics. If you agree that it's at least one of the top 10 seasons, by a freshmen, then were on the same page and just using different adjectives to describe him.


Noah Vonleh averaged 11.3/9.0 in 26.5 MPG, shooting .523 from the field for the season. He was 15/25 on 3s (60%) in the Big 10 season, and led the BT in rebounding and defensive rebounding. He was 8th in the BT in BSs. His offensive and defensive efficiency #s were much better than RL's. I think his season was better than RL's. NV's personality/leadership abilities were probably closer to those of RL than the other players you mention.
 
Here's the difference between Romeo and all the players you listed above. He's a OAD and that has changed ALL of your expectations. Imagine right now if you were thinking of what will come when he plays the next 2 or 3 years for IU. You would be feeling GREAT about him. But he's leaving, so there's a sense of letdown. And that is the OAD train people. It doesn't work unless more are boarding as others depart.


Speak for yourself Boiler. NBA projections don't have a damn thing to do with my expectations or the way I view his season. I think a lot of people on here are smarter than that.
 
To be clear, I stated IU history. If you throw out people's idiotic/crazy expectations and look at his numbers objectively, he's had one of the greatest freshmen seasons in IU history.

I agree Thomas (unfortunately, I wasn't alive to see it) and Gordon were better. Those are also the two best seasons ever, for freshmen, at IU.


A quick list of the best freshmen at IU, IMO:

1. Thomas
2. Gordon
3. Woodson
4. Cheaney
5. Alford
6. Romeo
7. Zeller

I think Romeo falls somewhere in the 5-7 range and it's fair to say he is having one of the greatest freshmen seasons in IU history. Guyton's freshmen season wasn't better than Romeo's. He averaged 13.6 points and shot 43.5% from the field. To be clear, Guyton, did have a great freshmen season. Zeller's is debatable. Zeller played on a much better team and a lot of his points came from being set up by his teammates. Every player has WTF moments and struggle in games. Zeller's last game, his sophomore year, for example. It happens to all players.

We might be getting bogged down in semantics. If you agree that it's at least one of the top 10 seasons, by a freshmen, then were on the same page and just using different adjectives to describe him.


Alford avg. 15.5 on a 22-9 team that was 13-5 and finished 3rd in the BT with a lineup of Alford, U. Blab, Marty Simmons, Stew Robinson, and Mike Giomi. He shot 59% from the field, 91% from the FT line. I would keep RL behind Alford in your line-up.
 
This is revisionist history.

I bumped a thread from October about expectations concerning RL--as you can see, the #s you mention would not have made most fans "ecstatic". Nor would him being 3rd team ABT.

RL was projected as a 3rd team preseason AA by ESPN & CBS. ESPN listed him as the #15 player in the country. Mark Rutherford of SB Nation listed him as #13. Jason McIntyre of BigLead listed him as #9 and said of him: Trae Young range and a Tracy McGrady takeover ability. Sleeper to lead the conference in scoring". He was 1/10 players listed by 28 writers at BT media days as pre-season ABT, and was picked UNANIMOUSLY as the freshman of the year in the BT.

So the expectations you state were not those of most fans or of the media.

I'm not saying that's uncommon or unusual. If you look through the first 31 players of ESPN's top 100 preseason (Morgan was #31), many did not have years reflecting that ranking.

I read through the thread. A lot of the posts were spot on. The very first response in the thread almost predicted his exact stat line for the year (well done jimmy).

The preseason mags/etc. is clickbait. It's pure sausage and constantly over hypes players, because it sells. Jason McIntyre should refrain from making predictions in the future.
 
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Speak for yourself Boiler. NBA projections don't have a damn thing to do with my expectations or the way I view his season. I think a lot of people on here are smarter than that.

Then I assume you feel he has had an incredible freshman season. A remarkable one. One that in no way can be seen as a letdown of any kind. That's what the numbers say and that was my point.

The angst people feel is because that's all you get from him. He's done. Whereas if he was coming back for two more everyone would be giddy about him and rightfully so.
 
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I read through the thread. A lot of the posts were spot on. The very first response in the thread almost predicted his exact stat line for the year (well done jimmy).

The preseason mags/etc. is clickbait. It's pure sausage and constantly over hypes players, because it sells. Jason McIntyre should refrain from making predictions in the future.


There were some relatively sober predictions of 14-17/5-7, but I didn't see anyone saying he'd be a 27% 3 point shooter or 45% overall. I know in my case I thought Morgan & Smith would score more, and hoped Green would. That wouldn't have left room for RL to score 17/game. I thought he would be a very efficient offensive player. but might defer to the other guys some until the end of the year. I don't recall people saying he couldn't go left well, couldn't finish with his left hand, and couldn't handle contact all that well. I did see people in that thread say:

--Big 10 Player of the year
--Romeo & Barrett are the top 2 talents in college basketball
--will have an impact similar to Eric Gordon
--1st team ABT & 3rd team/HM AA
--'better than Gordon'
--top 5 player in the country
--18-25 ppg, 1st team ABT, BT PoY candidate
 
Then I assume you feel he has had an incredible freshman season. A remarkable one. One that in no way can be seen as a letdown of any kind. That's what the numbers say and that was my point.

The angst people feel is because that's all you get from him. He's done. Whereas if he was coming back for two more everyone would be giddy about him and rightfully so.


I would say he had a disappointing season regardless of whether or not he was coming back. His coming or going has no impact on discussing the season he has had.

What type of college player he might be if he stayed is not part of this discussion, nor is it relevant because no one has ever thought he would play more than one year.
 
There were some relatively sober predictions of 14-17/5-7, but I didn't see anyone saying he'd be a 27% 3 point shooter or 45% overall. I know in my case I thought Morgan & Smith would score more, and hoped Green would. That wouldn't have left room for RL to score 17/game. I thought he would be a very efficient offensive player. but might defer to the other guys some until the end of the year. I don't recall people saying he couldn't go left well, couldn't finish with his left hand, and couldn't handle contact all that well. I did see people in that thread say:

--Big 10 Player of the year
--Romeo & Barrett are the top 2 talents in college basketball
--will have an impact similar to Eric Gordon
--1st team ABT & 3rd team/HM AA
--'better than Gordon'
--top 5 player in the country
--18-25 ppg, 1st team ABT, BT PoY candidate

Welcome to basketball forums where people (fanboys) constantly overrate their players and teams:) R.J. Barrett is shooting 46% from the field, for comparison. I think shooting 45% from the field is good for a freshmen guard.

I just responded in another thread to someone who said Phin would have a similar career to Yogi. The chances of that are slim to none. Yogi averaged 17 points his sophomore year. I would be happy if Phin averaged 10 points.
 
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Welcome to basketball forums where people (fanboys) constantly overrate their players and teams:) R.J. Barrett is shooting 46% from the field, for comparison. I think shooting 45% from the field is good for a freshmen guard.

I just responded in another thread to someone who said Phin would have a similar career to Yogi. The chances of that are slim to none. Yogi averaged 17 points his sophomore year. I would be happy if Phin averaged 10 points.


I'm glad you're happy. Low expectations can be a good thing.
 
I would say he had a disappointing season regardless of whether or not he was coming back. His coming or going has no impact on discussing the season he has had.

What type of college player he might be if he stayed is not part of this discussion, nor is it relevant because no one has ever thought he would play more than one year.

I guess 17pts, 5.3reb, 2.2ast, 1stl, 1blk average per game isn't the sign of an outstanding true freshman. Probably only 1 or 2 recruits in every class each year that will meet your expectations for their first year performance then. Good luck getting them.
 
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To be clear, I stated IU history. If you throw out people's idiotic/crazy expectations and look at his numbers objectively, he's had one of the greatest freshmen seasons in IU history.

I agree Thomas (unfortunately, I wasn't alive to see it) and Gordon were better. Those are also the two best seasons ever, for freshmen, at IU.


A quick list of the best freshmen at IU, IMO:

1. Thomas
2. Gordon
3. Woodson
4. Cheaney
5. Alford
6. Romeo
7. Zeller

I think Romeo falls somewhere in the 5-7 range and it's fair to say he is having one of the greatest freshmen seasons in IU history. Guyton's freshmen season wasn't better than Romeo's. He averaged 13.6 points and shot 43.5% from the field. To be clear, Guyton, did have a great freshmen season. Zeller's is debatable. Zeller played on a much better team and a lot of his points came from being set up by his teammates. Every player has WTF moments and struggle in games. Zeller's last game, his sophomore year, for example. It happens to all players.

We might be getting bogged down in semantics. If you agree that it's at least one of the top 10 seasons, by a freshmen, then were on the same page and just using different adjectives to describe him.

I'm with on about 90% of this.

Only big disagreement is Zeller.

I'd argue that we've never had a player come in an impact winning than Zeller.

He won multiple times in HS. He won national titles in AAU. He came to a team that went 3-15 in the conference the year prior and led them to the biggest turnaround in the country.

Then the next year led us most of the year as the #1 team in the country.

Then left, replaced with another lottery pick, and missed the post season all together.

He did things on the court that impacted winning. He scored, he fouled major players out (Anthony Davis, Sullinger, Meyers Leonard, McGary, Nix by faking that he hit him in the nuts). He was a tremendous flopper.

Think about the Nix fake nut hit. We were exhausted as a team. Cody bought us a two minute break without burning a time out.

He set deadly picks (see the Wat shot). He ran the floor hard.

He would grab the ball after we made a shot and throw it to the ref, not give it to the opponent. That caused a couple second delay and allowed us to get down the court and set up defensively.

Plus he was clutch. Watch the last five minutes of the Big ten championship game at Michigan. We're down 5 or so with a minute left and Zeller made all the plays down the stretch to win.

Cody bought Crean five more years. He impacted winning that much.

Tom Pritchard scored a bunch of points on a bad team his freshman year. Scoring points doesn't mean as much, impacting winning is what I value.

Oh and has been said, Noah Vonleh had a great year statistically.

Calbert was a stud out of the box.

Eric Anderson had a great freshman year. Really helped us win the big ten in 1989 as he was paired with Todd Jadlow as our frontcourt. He didn't score a ton but he impacted winning big time.

I just don't see Romeo impacting winning which knocks him for me.

I think he would greatly if he could shoot because we need a shooter desperately. I mean his team even got destroyed in the scrimmage where he was shut down by Hunter.

He even lost to Kentucky all stars for the first time in what 28 games even though they didn't have a div 1 prospect on the team.

Those were just two things that don't mean much on the surface but we're noticable.

Lastly he's at a totally different level of evaluation being a lottery pick. It's not fair to him but he's Bran Stark. He has to become the three eyed raven because there is no time to develop since he's down to his last couple of weeks.
 
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I'm with on about 90% of this.

Only big disagreement is Zeller.

I'd argue that we've never had a player come in an impact winning than Zeller.

He won multiple times in HS. He won national titles in AAU. He came to a team that went 3-15 in the conference the year prior and led them to the biggest turnaround in the country.

Then the next year led us most of the year as the #1 team in the country.

Then left, replaced with another lottery pick, and missed the post season all together.

He did things on the court that impacted winning. He scored, he fouled major players out (Anthony Davis, Sullinger, Meyers Leonard, McGary, Nix by faking that he hit him in the nuts). He was a tremendous flopper.

Think about the Nix fake nut hit. We were exhausted as a team. Cody bought us a two minute break without burning a time out.

He set deadly picks (see the Wat shot). He ran the floor hard.

He would grab the ball after we made a shot and throw it to the ref, not give it to the opponent. That caused a couple second delay and allowed us to get down the court and set up defensively.

Plus he was clutch. Watch the last five minutes of the Big ten championship game at Michigan. We're down 5 or so with a minute left and Zeller made all the plays down the stretch to win.

Cody bought Crean five more years. He impacted winning that much.

Tom Pritchard scored a bunch of points on a bad team his freshman year. Scoring points doesn't mean as much, impacting winning is what I value.

Oh and has been said, Noah Vonleh had a great year statistically.

Calbert was a stud out of the box.

Eric Anderson had a great freshman year. Really helped us win the big ten in 1989 as he was paired with Todd Jadlow as our frontcourt. He didn't score a ton but he impacted winning big time.

I just don't see Romeo impacting winning which knocks him for me.

I think he would greatly if he could shoot because we need a shooter desperately. I mean his team even got destroyed in the scrimmage where he was shut down by Hunter.

He even lost to Kentucky all stars for the first time in what 28 games even though they didn't have a div 1 prospect on the team.

Those were just two things that don't mean much on the surface but we're noticable.

Lastly he's at a totally different level of evaluation being a lottery pick. It's not fair to him but he's Bran Stark. He has to become the three eyed raven because there is no time to develop since he's down to his last couple of weeks.

Zeller was great, at IU. I don't have any qualms if someone places him ahead of Romeo. Zeller did have the benefit of playing with a much better team, which makes it difficult to compare the two. It's a lot easier to score when you have Oladipo, Watford, and Hulls on the court with you.
 
I'm with on about 90% of this.

Only big disagreement is Zeller.

I'd argue that we've never had a player come in an impact winning than Zeller.

He won multiple times in HS. He won national titles in AAU. He came to a team that went 3-15 in the conference the year prior and led them to the biggest turnaround in the country.

Then the next year led us most of the year as the #1 team in the country.

Then left, replaced with another lottery pick, and missed the post season all together.

He did things on the court that impacted winning. He scored, he fouled major players out (Anthony Davis, Sullinger, Meyers Leonard, McGary, Nix by faking that he hit him in the nuts). He was a tremendous flopper.

Think about the Nix fake nut hit. We were exhausted as a team. Cody bought us a two minute break without burning a time out.

He set deadly picks (see the Wat shot). He ran the floor hard.

He would grab the ball after we made a shot and throw it to the ref, not give it to the opponent. That caused a couple second delay and allowed us to get down the court and set up defensively.

Plus he was clutch. Watch the last five minutes of the Big ten championship game at Michigan. We're down 5 or so with a minute left and Zeller made all the plays down the stretch to win.

Cody bought Crean five more years. He impacted winning that much.

Tom Pritchard scored a bunch of points on a bad team his freshman year. Scoring points doesn't mean as much, impacting winning is what I value.

Oh and has been said, Noah Vonleh had a great year statistically.

Calbert was a stud out of the box.

Eric Anderson had a great freshman year. Really helped us win the big ten in 1989 as he was paired with Todd Jadlow as our frontcourt. He didn't score a ton but he impacted winning big time.

I just don't see Romeo impacting winning which knocks him for me.

I think he would greatly if he could shoot because we need a shooter desperately. I mean his team even got destroyed in the scrimmage where he was shut down by Hunter.

He even lost to Kentucky all stars for the first time in what 28 games even though they didn't have a div 1 prospect on the team.

Those were just two things that don't mean much on the surface but we're noticable.

Lastly he's at a totally different level of evaluation being a lottery pick. It's not fair to him but he's Bran Stark. He has to become the three eyed raven because there is no time to develop since he's down to his last couple of weeks.

As a Purdue fan I definitely agree with this on Zeller. In the last 10 seasons

Without Zeller: Purdue 12-1 vs IU
With Zeller: Purdue 0-4 vs IU
 
I would compare Romeo as a freshman to someone like Recker.

Eric Anderson was freshman of the year and was on a championship Big Ten team so it is tough to compare except to say that impact on winning vs. NBA potential are mighty different.

Then again, guys like Draymond Green or Chauncey Billups who end up winning and winning and winning....there is no doubt that it is because of their intangivle qualities of toughness, leadership, poise, etc.

That's why I keep saying Langford needs to stick around and build his mettle. Physical talent is a dime a dozen in the NBA.

Who would he rather be Rip Hamilton or Evan Turner? (And both of those are being generous).
 
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Here's the difference between Romeo and all the players you listed above. He's a OAD and that has changed ALL of your expectations. Imagine right now if you were thinking of what will come when he plays the next 2 or 3 years for IU. You would be feeling GREAT about him. But he's leaving, so there's a sense of letdown. And that is the OAD train people. It doesn't work unless more are boarding as others depart.

I agree. if Romeo was coming back, the perception of him would be different.
 
I agree. if Romeo was coming back, the perception of him would be different.

Much like Vonleh, there is a big hole left behind for one and done players. If the team isn't good during the one year, then it wasn't really worth it, although in this case I think Romeo helped set the recruiting bar back up high.
 
In consideration for all big ten, Bohannon and Teske should both be considered potentially for 3rd team.

I haven't quite finalized how I'd pick 3 teams but if I were picking my own team to actually win games, I'd have to consider the 2 above and also Trice from Wisconsin. They simply play hard and help their team win.

I suppose I'd go with 1st team as:

Winston
Simpson
Edwards
Happ
Fernando/Murphy
 
Much like Vonleh, there is a big hole left behind for one and done players. If the team isn't good during the one year, then it wasn't really worth it, although in this case I think Romeo helped set the recruiting bar back up high.
Romeo was a very important recruit at IU.
 
I look forward to you backing me up, when I b#tch about Archie, if (when) he underperforms, again, next year:)


Yes, it's put up time for him next year, no doubt. I hate that there's so much uncertainty. Will Davis be back? Will he be healthy? Will Hunter play? Will Smith & Green return? Will we get Brooks? If not, Beverly? If neither, anyone else? Any coaching changes? Too many moving parts to be comfortable about the situation.
 
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Yes, it's put up time for him next year, no doubt. I hate that there's so much uncertainty. Will Davis be back? Will he be healthy? Will Hunter play? Will Smith & Green return? Will we get Brooks? If not, Beverly? If neither, anyone else? Any coaching changes? Too many moving parts to be comfortable about the situation.
It will all play out in time.
 
In consideration for all big ten, Bohannon and Teske should both be considered potentially for 3rd team.

I haven't quite finalized how I'd pick 3 teams but if I were picking my own team to actually win games, I'd have to consider the 2 above and also Trice from Wisconsin. They simply play hard and help their team win.

I suppose I'd go with 1st team as:

Winston
Simpson
Edwards
Happ
Fernando/Murphy


Interesting post.....there's a lot of guys who don't really have good enough stats to be all Big Ten 2nd/3rd team, but they just help win games. You don't mention Ryan Cline, but damn he's been important. Other guys in that category might be Reaves from PSU, Eifert from Purdue (avg. 2 1/2 3s/game, shooting 45%), Davison from WIS, Pardon, Goins from MSU, as well as the guys you mentioned.

I remember watching Purdue & Wisconsin early in the season and thinking how little talent they had....for WIS, Happ was playing great and getting no help. For Purdue, Eastern was stinking it up and Edwards looked like a one man show. It's quite a pisser that those teams have done so well and we're 6-12. I really appreciate how clearly the roles are defined on those teams. That seems to me to be a critical factor, unless you have overwhelming talent.

While we're at it, and somewhat off-topic, what do you think about Al Durham? Frankly, my enthusiasm for him as a role player is fading. What exactly does he do all that well? Yes, he's shooting 37-38% on 3s, but hes really not a threat unless he's wide open. He has trouble finishing around the rim, his 2 pt shooting % is poor generally, and he really lacks the strength and balance to be anything like a defensive stopper. His handle is pretty poor...certainly he's not a legit back-up PG. And, it seems to me, you really don't know what you're going to get from him game-to-game. I don't really ever see him being a starter on a really good team. 6th or 7th man yes, but not a starter.
 
I like Al. He showed the most leadership through the losing streak (and particularly in the UM game at SSAH) Also, if not for Al, I don't know that IU could ever get the lid off the 3pt basket.

He got better in the off season by correcting his shooting form and it has really helped him. He is athletic enough and does a pretty good job of executing the offense from what I can tell. Still a young guard, I still see this kid getting better next season.

Last but not least- Al isn't the problem in the locker room. He is a good teammate. Keeper.
 
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By the way, good point about Cline. His stats are definitely off though.

Reaves will be there next year if he keeps up his defense. Good player. He is young right?
 
I'm with on about 90% of this.

Only big disagreement is Zeller.

I'd argue that we've never had a player come in an impact winning than Zeller.

He won multiple times in HS. He won national titles in AAU. He came to a team that went 3-15 in the conference the year prior and led them to the biggest turnaround in the country.

Then the next year led us most of the year as the #1 team in the country.

Then left, replaced with another lottery pick, and missed the post season all together.

He did things on the court that impacted winning. He scored, he fouled major players out (Anthony Davis, Sullinger, Meyers Leonard, McGary, Nix by faking that he hit him in the nuts). He was a tremendous flopper.

Think about the Nix fake nut hit. We were exhausted as a team. Cody bought us a two minute break without burning a time out.

He set deadly picks (see the Wat shot). He ran the floor hard.

He would grab the ball after we made a shot and throw it to the ref, not give it to the opponent. That caused a couple second delay and allowed us to get down the court and set up defensively.

Plus he was clutch. Watch the last five minutes of the Big ten championship game at Michigan. We're down 5 or so with a minute left and Zeller made all the plays down the stretch to win.

Cody bought Crean five more years. He impacted winning that much.

Tom Pritchard scored a bunch of points on a bad team his freshman year. Scoring points doesn't mean as much, impacting winning is what I value.

Oh and has been said, Noah Vonleh had a great year statistically.

Calbert was a stud out of the box.

Eric Anderson had a great freshman year. Really helped us win the big ten in 1989 as he was paired with Todd Jadlow as our frontcourt. He didn't score a ton but he impacted winning big time.

I just don't see Romeo impacting winning which knocks him for me.

I think he would greatly if he could shoot because we need a shooter desperately. I mean his team even got destroyed in the scrimmage where he was shut down by Hunter.

He even lost to Kentucky all stars for the first time in what 28 games even though they didn't have a div 1 prospect on the team.

Those were just two things that don't mean much on the surface but we're noticable.

Lastly he's at a totally different level of evaluation being a lottery pick. It's not fair to him but he's Bran Stark. He has to become the three eyed raven because there is no time to develop since he's down to his last couple of weeks.


Wow, great point about that KY all-star game. I had forgotten about it, but it was noticeable at the time.

To me, a more recent eye-opener was the trouble the Iverson kid from Wisconsin gave him a few games ago. Too physical for RL.

Also, ufo talked about the Gervin-like finger rolls that he used all the time when he was in HS. How many of those have we seen this year--4 or 5? He just can't get close enough to the rim to employ that move. How many dunks have we seen in traffic? Mostly we've seen running 4-5 ft bank shots from the right side.

I'll tell you what....I'd be nervous as a nun in a whorehouse drafting RL unless he can demonstrate that he can hit 35% on his NBA range 3s going forward........He has a great incentive to play his butt off the rest of this year....we'll see what happens.
 
I like Al. He showed the most leadership through the losing streak (and particularly in the UM game at SSAH) Also, if not for Al, I don't know that IU could ever get the lid off the 3pt basket.

He got better in the off season by correcting his shooting form and it has really helped him. He is athletic enough and does a pretty good job of executing the offense from what I can tell. Still a young guard, I still see this kid getting better next season.

Last but not least- Al isn't the problem in the locker room. He is a good teammate. Keeper.


I really like his attitude and approach, no doubt. However, because there are attitude issues with 1/2 the players on this team I think we overrate that in evaluating AD. For most players on most teams a good attitude is a given. I just really like role players that are really, really good at at least one defined thing. Like Reaves as a defender, or Goins from MSU when he had 17 rebounds one game but no points because he didn't take a shot. Or Thompson for us against Wisky when he had 7 rebounds in 20 minutes with no TOs and didn't take a shot. Or Eifert shooting 45% on 3s for Purdue.

With regard to Al.......if he's going to play a lot going forward.....I guess I'd like to see fewer drives to the basket as he's not good at it.......more rebounds (he doesn't get many for being a 6'4" guard).....keep working on the 3s, to the point where he can shoot more of them with a little less space....and be the best defender he can be. Again, I don't think he has the quickness, strength or balance to be a genuine defensive stopper like an Eastern at Purdue.....if you look at his defensive efficiency #s they are poor.
 
It shows that you have coached for 25 years. Every person that I know who understands basketball beyond a stat sheet says the same thing. Every one of them including myself. If he weren’t an Indiana high school legend, more people could be objective. But he is, so in some eyes he can do no wrong. It does however help me distinguish who to take serious and who not to on this forum. He has gotten a little better as the season has went on (as he should) but he was underwhelmed for the most part. I say this after I thought he would be the best freshmen At IU in the last 30 years. I was completely sold on him coming out of high school.
Much appreciated. I try to be fair and objective
 
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In consideration for all big ten, Bohannon and Teske should both be considered potentially for 3rd team.

I haven't quite finalized how I'd pick 3 teams but if I were picking my own team to actually win games, I'd have to consider the 2 above and also Trice from Wisconsin. They simply play hard and help their team win.

I suppose I'd go with 1st team as:

Winston
Simpson
Edwards
Happ
Fernando/Murphy
you can't divide one pick. just pick one for crying out loud
 
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