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Why I think a coaching change has to be made

I question whether the IU Administration is serious about winning. Is it possible they have either consciously or unconsciously hated RMK's power so much that they don't want to have another coach who has as much? Can we truly say IU is a basketball school anymore? Has Football,Baseball, and Soccer passed it up? If IU was serious about winning they would have gotten a slam dunk hire and don't anyone tell me that Archie was that. Look at Dayton last year. They were a very good team. Perhaps Dayton just wins and it wasn't because Archie was a slam dunk coach. Now, I like Archie personally. I like his no nonsense demeanor. I don't think he is a rotten coach. But if IU wants to be elite again they should part ways with him and get a real slam dunk coach. We need a coach who will bring excitement to the fan base and recruits at a high level. He needs to recruit players with skill sets like shooting and basketball intelligence. We need players who LOVE Indiana and HATE to lose to Purdue.
This is the best post I've seen regarding a coaching change. Come September, it will have been 21 years since Knight was fired by the old IU brass. Myles Brand died 11 years ago.

Is it really possible that the current IU administration -- despite not being around in September of 2000 -- loathes Knight to the point it actively desires to retain Archie and force the fan base to accept the results?
 
We just beat #4 on the road with several freshman contributing. Hell if we could hit some more free throws we'd have won by 20. Free throws still the bane of my fandom. We got our 6'11" center on the bench. Got to give the freshman time to get into a grove. Leal with 3's and Geronimo (SP?) inside. Looking like they belong. I think this team is better than the record. Learning how to close and win is important. We saw that last night. Let's hope it is a building block and not a one time event. Go Hoosiers!
 
You’re beclowning yourself here man. I know you sunshine pumpers just can’t help yourselves, but it’s only one game and does not change everything else that has happened up until this point. If they win 5 in a row, then by all means, come back and beat your chest till your heart’s content.
The storm cloud farters show up here after every loss or even close win and post emotional rants about firing a coach that will be here another year whether we like it or not. Farters attack pumpers and pumpers attack farters. It's a mess. :) Let's all agree that people have different opinions on the state of the program, its coach, and its future and discuss this reasonably and rationally instead of emotionally. I know, too much to ask, but what the hey. ;)
 
We just beat #4 on the road with several freshman contributing. Hell if we could hit some more free throws we'd have won by 20. Free throws still the bane of my fandom. We got our 6'11" center on the bench. Got to give the freshman time to get into a grove. Leal with 3's and Geronimo (SP?) inside. Looking like they belong. I think this team is better than the record. Learning how to close and win is important. We saw that last night. Let's hope it is a building block and not a one time event. Go Hoosiers!

I'm really more interested/concerned about the next 3-4 years than this year.....Lets assume things work out fairly well this year.

Down the road, I'm looking at the foursome of Franklin, Leal, Galloway & J Geronimo as being the heart of the team. Very nice, but only covers 2 positions even if all 4 stay and develop as we hope.

Logan D's a nice prospect, potentially a Reuvers or better type in 3 years, but he'll probably struggle in years 1 & 2.

Lander's a huge ? at PG. Can we recruit another PG this year? Avery Brown?

Is Jerome going to turn into a genuinely productive all-around player? To me, he seems to lack gravitas when compared to Franklin, Leal, Galloway, Geronimo.

Just a lot more questions than answers, even assuming the best happens this year.
 
You’re beclowning yourself here man. I know you sunshine pumpers just can’t help yourselves, but it’s only one game and does not change everything else that has happened up until this point. If they win 5 in a row, then by all means, come back and beat your chest till your heart’s content.
There is a difference between beating my chest and providing some accountability. This board is chalked full of people that unload on our coach after a loss then it goes silent after a win. It’s sad that I cant openly support my team at my alma mater without being accused of beating my chest.
 
There is a difference between beating my chest and providing some accountability. This board is chalked full of people that unload on our coach after a loss then it goes silent after a win. It’s sad that I cant openly support my team at my alma mater without being accused of beating my chest.
The reverse is true, as well. The people who excuse losing never show up after poor performances and losses, and they gloss over the 3+ years of shortcomings. So please don’t pretend that you’re on the side of virtue here. It’s false in every way.
 
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Agreed. Trying to judge a season based on one game is like deciding whether or not a song is good based on one note. Let's see how the melody plays out.

What happens if the coaching staff cannot carry a tune?
Asking for a friend.
 
This is the best post I've seen regarding a coaching change. Come September, it will have been 21 years since Knight was fired by the old IU brass. Myles Brand died 11 years ago.

Is it really possible that the current IU administration -- despite not being around in September of 2000 -- loathes Knight to the point it actively desires to retain Archie and force the fan base to accept the results?
Nope, I agree, that's just a dumb thought. The reality is 20 years of bad decisions
 
The reverse is true, as well. The people who excuse losing never show up after poor performances and losses, and they gloss over the 3+ years of shortcomings. So please don’t pretend that you’re on the side of virtue here. It’s false in every way.
Yes, cheering for IU ball to hopefully be as good as they are in football consistently. Maybe we're old, but damn, there seems to be a bunch of fans that don't know history or exactly why we might pay a coach this much if the expectation is hoping to get to the tourney. FG made it very clear what the expectation for AM is, and sorry, but but why take the job and the $$$ if you can't live up to it. Not really anyone of us needs to feel sorry for somebody that's wildly disappointed and made like 10M doing it, still doing it save for a couple games
 
Boring ass incessantly repetitive dead horse thread with people repeating the same bullshit over and over again. And using the word "I" like they believe they are some kind of expert that should be listened to.

Do you guys watch basketball to talk about hiring and firing coaches or to watch basketball.

Bunch of human resource managers? Shouldn't you be buying cake for someone's birthday..
 
Boring ass incessantly repetitive dead horse thread with people repeating the same bullshit over and over again. And using the word "I" like they believe they are some kind of expert that should be listened to.

Do you guys watch basketball to talk about hiring and firing coaches or to watch basketball.

Bunch of human resource managers? Shouldn't you be buying cake for someone's birthday..
Shouldn't you have some understanding of basketball to babble mindlessly so often?
 
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Those guys just get on here and attack the posters continually and never really discuss the team, coaches, opponents. They just attack......it's weird when you think about it, makes me wonder what kind of short comings they may be trying to compensate for????
 
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The never Archie crowd could have along wait.
Any appearance in the tournament this or next year
Hell get another 3 -5 that's absolute..
Let's build on that Iowa win.
Get one tomorrow at home..
 
Those guys just get on here and attack the posters continually and never really discuss the team, coaches, opponents. They just attack......it's weird when you think about it, makes me wonder what kind of short comings they may be trying to compensate for????
I assume they have wives or girlfriends who put them down all the time. Or it could be a boss who is riding them a lot at work.
 
The reverse is true, as well. The people who excuse losing never show up after poor performances and losses, and they gloss over the 3+ years of shortcomings. So please don’t pretend that you’re on the side of virtue here. It’s false in every way.
I have been posting on this board for years, and I have regularly gone to games for over a decade including the poor performances. This isn’t a two party system. It’s a message board for IU fans yet I am in the minority.
 
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I have been posting on this board for years, and I have regularly gone to games for over a decade including the bas performances. This isn’t a two party system. It’s a message board for IU fans yet I am in the minority.
How are you in the minority?
 
The storm cloud farters show up here after every loss or even close win and post emotional rants about firing a coach that will be here another year whether we like it or not. Farters attack pumpers and pumpers attack farters. It's a mess. :) Let's all agree that people have different opinions on the state of the program, its coach, and its future and discuss this reasonably and rationally instead of emotionally. I know, too much to ask, but what the hey. ;)

Aloha. I like you, I think you’re generally a reasonable, nice guy to interact with.

I think your evaluation of Miller is wrong. He is bad. One win against Iowa doesn’t disprove that. He needs to show a lot more to keep his job next year.
 
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Aloha. I like you, I think you’re generally a reasonable, nice guy to interact with.

I think your evaluation of Miller is wrong. He is bad. One win against Iowa doesn’t disprove that. He needs to show a lot more to keep his job next year.

He should have been the captain on the titanic. No matter what happens, down with the ship. Crazy thing is he can’t really justify why the ship is so great, but because it was his and he really endorsed it at one point, he is sticking with that endorsement through the bitter end, no matter the direction.

Pointless trying to get him off his position.
 
He should have been the captain on the titanic. No matter what happens, down with the ship. Crazy thing is he can’t really justify why the ship is so great, but because it was his and he really endorsed it at one point, he is sticking with that endorsement through the bitter end, no matter the direction.

Pointless trying to get him off his position.
Is improved KenPom rating every year and now in the top 25 justification?
 
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From an overall wins and losses/program standards standpoint being a bubble team again should not be acceptable for Indiana basketball.

From the perspective of where our program sits versus our conference peers. I don’t see Archie passing any of the established good coaches like Izzo, Painter, or Gard. One of the reasons I stayed on the Archie train until recently is I thought he and his programs were solid enough to get up on Izzo and Gard’s heels. And to compete well enough with the newer guys to be a top 4-5 conference program year in and year out. That would be good enough I think. But with Howard, Underwood, Paikal, and Holtmans success...I don’t see how Archie lifts us to even top 6-7 anytime soon. And anytime THAT is Indiana’s realistic ceiling forecast for a few years...the coach should be fired. We are still Indiana, if the admin wants to be that is.

From the perspective of basketball philosophies and gameplay issues. His offense is now painfully proven to be mediocre. And worse, now likely turning away the types of recruits any coach will need to compete at the top of the B10. Blue chip perimeter guys saw, or will be told, how his offense largely wasted the talents of Romeo Langford. We have a specific case this past recruiting cycle on how we lost Trey Kaufman, a kid we had very good chances of landing, because of how Archie envisioned using him in his offense. Many blamed it on a comparison with TJD. And I’m sure that’s part of it, but more to the point, it was likely about how TJD is being used at IU, and how that isn’t really appealing to many of today’s top players. And isn’t really helping TJD, or our team, get anywhere nearer their respective goals.

So you have inadequate results versus what should be the expectation...your underperforming many of your direct peers...theirs little prospect for improved performance...and there are fundamental aspects of your program that are broken and don’t appear to being fixed.

Where does that ever equal anything other than termination?

I have extremely high expectations for IU basketball, but the Hoosiers haven't met them for years. Of course, I attended IU from 1972-76. It shocked me when the Hoosiers made it to the final four in 1973, but it didn't surprise me when they won it all in 1976. Of course, I predicted they would go unbeaten and win it all before the season started in my senior year.

When did I predict it? I covered football for the Indiana Daily Student the fall of 1975. The sports editor asked whether I wanted to become sports editor the second semester and I declined it because I wanted to cover IU basketball. In those days, the sports editor did not cover sports because he was too busy editing articles and laying out the pages. When I mentioned I wanted to cover IU basketball, he said I would have IU basketball assigned to me if I wasn't sports editor.

A few weeks later, there was a meeting at the Ernie Pyle Building to announce which two individuals would be covering IU basketball. When they assigned it to two underclassmen instead of another senior and me, I asked why I didn't get to cover IU basketball. I was informed that I was too close to the players and I wouldn't be able to be objective. I asked how objective I would need to be because the Hoosiers would go unbeaten and win it all.

Because I was afraid I was going to deck somebody, I hustled across the street to the HPER Building and lifted weights for about 30 minutes. That probably was a good move on my part because it enabled me to keep my composure.

A couple of weeks later, the two reporters covering IU basketball said they almost missed the plane to the first away game. They weren't wearing suits and ties when they attempted to get on the plane and Bob Knight said they couldn't get on the plane without them. The two of them hustled back to their apartments to get suits and ties and barely made it back in time to get on the plane.

One of the trainers saw me a couple of days later and asked whether I had heard what Knight had done to the two reporters. He said Knight did it to exact revenge because he wanted the other senior and me to cover IU basketball. When I saw Knight later, I asked whether that was why he did it and he confirmed it.

Even though I got screwed out of covering IU basketball, I still love IU basketball. Because the Hoosiers won three NCAA championships between 1976 and 1987, I always assumed they were going to win at least one NCAA title every 10 years. That said, these last 33 or so years have been very disappointing.

At 67 years of age, I have two goals regarding IU basketball. The first one is I want the Hoosiers to win at least one more NCAA championship during my lifetime. The second one is I don't want any other team to go unbeaten and win the NCAA championship in basketball before I die.
 
Aloha. I like you, I think you’re generally a reasonable, nice guy to interact with.

I think your evaluation of Miller is wrong. He is bad. One win against Iowa doesn’t disprove that. He needs to show a lot more to keep his job next year.
Time will tell, but I don't base my evaluation of Miller on one game.
 
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He should have been the captain on the titanic. No matter what happens, down with the ship. Crazy thing is he can’t really justify why the ship is so great, but because it was his and he really endorsed it at one point, he is sticking with that endorsement through the bitter end, no matter the direction.

Pointless trying to get him off his position.
We both want IU to be great, but that’s probably where our similarities end. You’re entirely driven by your emotions and you want immediate satisfaction because you have no patience. You’re unwilling to invest the time and effort it takes to get to our common goal. You don’t have the temperament to be successful as a leader.

If you had been Captain of the Titanic you would have been in the first life boat.
 
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I have extremely high expectations for IU basketball, but the Hoosiers haven't met them for years. Of course, I attended IU from 1972-76. It shocked me when the Hoosiers made it to the final four in 1973, but it didn't surprise me when they won it all in 1976. Of course, I predicted they would go unbeaten and win it all before the season started in my senior year.

When did I predict it? I covered football for the Indiana Daily Student the fall of 1975. The sports editor asked whether I wanted to become sports editor the second semester and I declined it because I wanted to cover IU basketball. In those days, the sports editor did not cover sports because he was too busy editing articles and laying out the pages. When I mentioned I wanted to cover IU basketball, he said I would have IU basketball assigned to me if I wasn't sports editor.

A few weeks later, there was a meeting at the Ernie Pyle Building to announce which two individuals would be covering IU basketball. When they assigned it to two underclassmen instead of another senior and me, I asked why I didn't get to cover IU basketball. I was informed that I was too close to the players and I wouldn't be able to be objective. I asked how objective I would need to be because the Hoosiers would go unbeaten and win it all.

Because I was afraid I was going to deck somebody, I hustled across the street to the HPER Building and lifted weights for about 30 minutes. That probably was a good move on my part because it enabled me to keep my composure.

A couple of weeks later, the two reporters covering IU basketball said they almost missed the plane to the first away game. They weren't wearing suits and ties when they attempted to get on the plane and Bob Knight said they couldn't get on the plane without them. The two of them hustled back to their apartments to get suits and ties and barely made it back in time to get on the plane.

One of the trainers saw me a couple of days later and asked whether I had heard what Knight had done to the two reporters. He said Knight did it to exact revenge because he wanted the other senior and me to cover IU basketball. When I saw Knight later, I asked whether that was why he did it and he confirmed it.

Even though I got screwed out of covering IU basketball, I still love IU basketball. Because the Hoosiers won three NCAA championships between 1976 and 1987, I always assumed they were going to win at least one NCAA title every 10 years. That said, these last 33 or so years have been very disappointing.

At 67 years of age, I have two goals regarding IU basketball. The first one is I want the Hoosiers to win at least one more NCAA championship during my lifetime. The second one is I don't want any other team to go unbeaten and win the NCAA championship in basketball before I die.
Interesting story from the olden days. Thanks.

I think the mid portion would have been improved, however, had you (instead of lifting weights to blow off steam) calmly driven to skid row in Indianapolis and strangled a hooker in order to exact revenge on an unfair world.
 
From an overall wins and losses/program standards standpoint being a bubble team again should not be acceptable for Indiana basketball.

From the perspective of where our program sits versus our conference peers. I don’t see Archie passing any of the established good coaches like Izzo, Painter, or Gard. One of the reasons I stayed on the Archie train until recently is I thought he and his programs were solid enough to get up on Izzo and Gard’s heels. And to compete well enough with the newer guys to be a top 4-5 conference program year in and year out. That would be good enough I think. But with Howard, Underwood, Paikal, and Holtmans success...I don’t see how Archie lifts us to even top 6-7 anytime soon. And anytime THAT is Indiana’s realistic ceiling forecast for a few years...the coach should be fired. We are still Indiana, if the admin wants to be that is.

From the perspective of basketball philosophies and gameplay issues. His offense is now painfully proven to be mediocre. And worse, now likely turning away the types of recruits any coach will need to compete at the top of the B10. Blue chip perimeter guys saw, or will be told, how his offense largely wasted the talents of Romeo Langford. We have a specific case this past recruiting cycle on how we lost Trey Kaufman, a kid we had very good chances of landing, because of how Archie envisioned using him in his offense. Many blamed it on a comparison with TJD. And I’m sure that’s part of it, but more to the point, it was likely about how TJD is being used at IU, and how that isn’t really appealing to many of today’s top players. And isn’t really helping TJD, or our team, get anywhere nearer their respective goals.

So you have inadequate results versus what should be the expectation...your underperforming many of your direct peers...theirs little prospect for improved performance...and there are fundamental aspects of your program that are broken and don’t appear to being fixed.

Where does that ever equal anything other than termination?
Why?
 
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