Why does the GOP always want to make it more difficult to vote?

[zeke4ahs]

http://www.inforum.com/news/governm...rt-rules-6-2-favor-north-dakotas-voter-id-law
This decision yesterday will likely prevent thousands of Native Americans from voting. They throw up obstacle after obstacle , publicize the fake meme of widespread voter fraud, all to keep as many people as possible from voting. It’s infuriating.

 

[iuwclurker]

What does Info Rum have to do with politics?

 

[iu_a_att]

http://www.inforum.com/news/governm...rt-rules-6-2-favor-north-dakotas-voter-id-law
This decision yesterday will likely prevent thousands of Native Americans from voting. They throw up obstacle after obstacle , publicize the fake meme of widespread voter fraud, all to keep as many people as possible from voting. It’s infuriating.

Why does the GOP want to prevent people from voting? Because they are the party of minority privilege and power. If everyone votes they lose privilege and power.

 

[MrBing]

Why does the GOP want to prevent people from voting? Because they are the party of minority privilege and power. If everyone votes they lose privilege and power.

You mean majority privilege and power right?

 

[iu_a_att]

You mean majority privilege and power right?

No...if they were actually a majority they would favor everyone voting. The fact is that they aren't a majority and they know it. But just take a look at the distribution of wealth in this country. The top 1% have 40% of the wealth. That means a tiny minority are exploiting a large majority. The GOP is their party. It is simply impossible to support such inequality in a democracy...so the program must be to become increasingly less democratic.

 

[twenty02]

No...if they were actually a majority they would favor everyone voting. The fact is that they aren't a majority and they know it.

Neither party is close to a majority.

 

[DrHoops]

They're barely clinging to power as it is....so they will do ANYTHING to hang on with it. Kavanaugh is a big part of it.

 

[Cortez88]

As I’ve noted before, voter suppression as a party platform is one of the main reasons I am no longer a Republican. To me, there is nothing more American than voting. Only one party in this country tries to make it difficult for its citizens to vote. This law is disenfranchisement plain and simple.

 

[MrBing]

No...if they were actually a majority they would favor everyone voting. The fact is that they aren't a majority and they know it. But just take a look at the distribution of wealth in this country. The top 1% have 40% of the wealth. That means a tiny minority are exploiting a large majority. The GOP is their party. It is simply impossible to support such inequality in a democracy...so the program must be to become increasingly less democratic.

I think it's more about the GOP being the party of the white people and they're still the majority. I don't know if I agree that the GOP the only party for rich people since we got lots of rich people on our side. Bezos is the richest man in the world and he's a Democrat. Gates and Buffet too. Zuckerburg is a Democrat I think. Both parties have policies that help the wealthy but obviously the Pubs a bit more. I think it's more about race than wealth because the voting laws the Pubs are pushing in a lot of states disproportionately affect minority voters.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

If you read the article, everyone can vote. If your ID lists a PO Box, show up at the poll with a utility bill or paycheck stub for proof of where you live. You are required to show that to open a bank account, rent an apartment, etc. people also need to be voting in the right precincts. Can’t be determined with a PO Box.

I ask what are you afraid of?

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

http://www.inforum.com/news/governm...rt-rules-6-2-favor-north-dakotas-voter-id-law
This decision yesterday will likely prevent thousands of Native Americans from voting. They throw up obstacle after obstacle , publicize the fake meme of widespread voter fraud, all to keep as many people as possible from voting. It’s infuriating.

Dude, this isn’t a secret.

 

[37Hoosier]

http://www.inforum.com/news/governm...rt-rules-6-2-favor-north-dakotas-voter-id-law
This decision yesterday will likely prevent thousands of Native Americans from voting. They throw up obstacle after obstacle , publicize the fake meme of widespread voter fraud, all to keep as many people as possible from voting. It’s infuriating.

Because they are the only true patriots left. From there point of view, it seems, only white males (females if they must) can think it thru and should be able to vote. Since the GOP has race baited for years they have backed themselves into a corner and the old white male crown continues to shrink. Millennials, people of color, mixed races, college educated, etc continue to out number their base...it worries them, so they put up obstacles in the guise of "preserving" the "privilege" of voting...another strawman to hold onto power.

 

[DrHoops]

If the system isn't broken (Hint: It isn't) why is the GOP always trying to disenfranchise voters? I don't think Democrats are the scared ones here. It's just the opposite.

If you read the article, everyone can vote. If your ID lists a PO Box, show up at the poll with a utility bill or paycheck stub for proof of where you live. You are required to show that to open a bank account, rent an apartment, etc. people also need to be voting in the right precincts. Can’t be determined with a PO Box.

I ask what are you afraid of?

 

[iu_a_att]

I think it's more about the GOP being the party of the white people and they're still the majority. I don't know if I agree that the GOP the only party for rich people since we got lots of rich people on our side. Bezos is the richest man in the world and he's a Democrat. Gates and Buffet too. Zuckerburg is a Democrat I think. Both parties have policies that help the wealthy but obviously the Pubs a bit more. I think it's more about race than wealth because the voting laws the Pubs are pushing in a lot of states disproportionately affect minority voters.

I agree that race is playing a big role while white people are a majority and a small majority of white people support the GOP but a large minority of them do not. The white people who support the GOP are a minority in the country as a whole. Given the choice is between democrats and republicans, if all are allowed to vote the Republicans reasonably fear getting a minority of the votes...i.e., losing. Your point about many very wealthy people supporting democrats is valid. Money also skews the democrats away from positions that most voters support.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

No...if they were actually a majority they would favor everyone voting. The fact is that they aren't a majority and they know it. But just take a look at the distribution of wealth in this country. The top 1% have 40% of the wealth. That means a tiny minority are exploiting a large majority. The GOP is their party. It is simply impossible to support such inequality in a democracy...so the program must be to become increasingly less democratic.

the 1% acquired a majority share in the Dem party as well, just to hedge their bets, but they still want the GOP to win.

which makes for a precarious position for Dems.

 

[iu_a_att]

Interesting fact that there is no right to vote in the United States

In order to become a naturalized citizen of the United States, until recently you had to answer this question: “What is the most important right granted to U.S. citizens?” The correct answer, according to the United States government, was, “The right to vote.” But that “right” has always been on shaky ground. Just as the Constitution once countenanced slavery, it also allowed voting to be restricted to property-holding white men. The Thirteenth Amendment expunged the stain of slavery from our basic law, but the Constitution has never fulfilled the democratic promise we associate with it. Put simply—and this is surprising to many people—there is no constitutional guarantee of the right to vote. Qualifications to vote in House and Senate elections are decided by each state, and the Supreme Court affirmed in Bush v. Gore that “[t]he individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States.”

Amendments to the Constitution have required “equal protection,” eliminated the poll tax, and made it unconstitutional to restrict voting based on race, sex, and age for those over 18. For years the Supreme Court relied on these amendments to expand the franchise, and the broadening of voting rights, which was associated with the civil-rights movement, was widely accepted as a marker of progress toward a just society until about 2000.​

 

[Bruce1]

This is truly an interesting series of responses as it serves up more fodder for Libs. The facts are that any society needs rules and laws to avoid chaos. If you read the complete article on this subject there is a lot of information regarding the need for a valid address and confirmation thereof. It really isn't that complicated. I mean I have to have a valid ID to rent a car, hotel room, buy cigarettes, etc. But of course the real issue is that Libs need something to flame about. Flame on Guys!!!! Enjoy!

http://www.inforum.com/news/governm...rt-rules-6-2-favor-north-dakotas-voter-id-law

 

[UncleMark]

I mean I have to have a valid ID to rent a car, hotel room, buy cigarettes, etc. But of course the real issue is that Libs need something to flame about.

Renting a car, a hotel room, or buying cigarettes aren't basic constitutional rights. That is the real issue.

 

[wiede]

This is truly an interesting series of responses as it serves up more fodder for Libs. The facts are that any society needs rules and laws to avoid chaos. If you read the complete article on this subject there is a lot of information regarding the need for a valid address and confirmation thereof. It really isn't that complicated. I mean I have to have a valid ID to rent a car, hotel room, buy cigarettes, etc. But of course the real issue is that Libs need something to flame about. Flame on Guys!!!! Enjoy!

http://www.inforum.com/news/governm...rt-rules-6-2-favor-north-dakotas-voter-id-law

Show me evidence that the laws the pubs have enacted solve a real issue.

Then we can talk about your article.

The voter suppression by the pubs is a solution in search of a problem. And any attempt to deflect from that basic truth is just an attempt to sidetrack the debate on the issue.

Do you realize that millions of citizens lack the type of ID these new restrictions require? And that he vast majority of them tend to vote democrat?

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/legacy/d/download_file_39242.pdf

The jig is up. Again, I’m not engaging your assertions- until you show me actual proof that there’s a problem- and not right wing media scary unsubstantiated conspiracy theories.

Start here with some actual facts/truth. And then get back with us please.

https://campaignlegal.org/update/republicans-and-democrats-agree-there-no-widespread-voter-fraud

You seem to have a severe lack of ability to think about being in other folk’s shoes. You assume that since most people use these for daily living, that everyone must have them. That’s far from the truth.

 

[zeke4ahs]

https://truthout.org/articles/gops-brian-kemp-purged-1-in-10-georgia-voters-ive-got-the-names/ And this in Georgia.

 

[iu_a_att]

https://truthout.org/articles/gops-brian-kemp-purged-1-in-10-georgia-voters-ive-got-the-names/ And this in Georgia.

Very systematic effort...this is why the Supreme Court is so important to the right

 

[All4You]

I am not saying there aren't unintended or intended consequences of voter ID laws, but if there were a way for the Democrats to introduce this type of legislation to impede Republican voting without catching up too many of their own, can you really say with a straight face they wouldn't jump @ the chance? I mean both sides employ gerrymandering tactics in an attempt to stack the deck which to me is just another form of disenfranchisement. And hell, the dead voting Dem in Chicago Mayoral Races is legendary.

Again, 2 sides of the same coin.

 

[Stuffshot]

http://www.inforum.com/news/governm...rt-rules-6-2-favor-north-dakotas-voter-id-law
This decision yesterday will likely prevent thousands of Native Americans from voting. They throw up obstacle after obstacle , publicize the fake meme of widespread voter fraud, all to keep as many people as possible from voting. It’s infuriating.

FYI, all. There is a news story today on Indiana TV stations saying that a state ID that is expired as of today might still be used legally to vote in November depending whether the ID expired before or after the last general election in Indiana ( which sounds generous and sensible to me).

Whoever has a dog in this fight might want to first check me on this and then alert whomever you think needs to know about it.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

This is truly an interesting series of responses as it serves up more fodder for Libs. The facts are that any society needs rules and laws to avoid chaos. If you read the complete article on this subject there is a lot of information regarding the need for a valid address and confirmation thereof. It really isn't that complicated. I mean I have to have a valid ID to rent a car, hotel room, buy cigarettes, etc. But of course the real issue is that Libs need something to flame about. Flame on Guys!!!! Enjoy!

http://www.inforum.com/news/governm...rt-rules-6-2-favor-north-dakotas-voter-id-law

Well, I’ve given you chances to prove you aren’t stupid and you’ve always failed. You’re finally going on the ignore list right next to the mods who see fit to leave this stupid shit up. I mean, you’re just an idiot. There really isn’t anything else to say. It’s not that you offend me (it’s actually impossible for me to be offended about anything), it’s just that have more enjoyable ways of wasting my time.

 

[Rockfish1]

I am not saying there aren't unintended or intended consequences of voter ID laws, but if there were a way for the Democrats to introduce this type of legislation to impede Republican voting without catching up too many of their own, can you really say with a straight face they wouldn't jump @ the chance? I mean both sides employ gerrymandering tactics in an attempt to stack the deck which to me is just another form of disenfranchisement. And hell, the dead voting Dem in Chicago Mayoral Races is legendary.

Again, 2 sides of the same coin.

On one side of the coin are things Republicans are actually doing. On the other side are things you imagine Democrats would do.

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

Well, I’ve given you chances to prove you aren’t stupid and you’ve always failed. You’re finally going on the ignore list right next to the mods who see fit to leave this stupid shit up. I mean, you’re just an idiot. There really isn’t anything else to say. It’s not that you offend me (it’s actually impossible for me to be offended about anything), it’s just that have more enjoyable ways of wasting my time.

Ignore lists are some sort of deterrent? How in the world have I missed yours ?

 

[Hoosier_Hack]

On one side of the coin are things Republicans are actually doing. On the other side are things you imagine Democrats would do.

FYI Rockford was a Republican .....

 

[All4You]

On one side of the coin are things Republicans are actually doing. On the other side are things you imagine Democrats would do.

Really?

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...cuses-his-party-of-gerrymandering-in-proposed

https://www.richmond.com/news/virgi...cle_249ea133-ec64-506b-b497-fd679fe6f2f9.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...aryland-shows-redistricting-is-broken/531492/

http://thefederalist.com/2017/06/22/democrats-think-twice-seeking-end-gerrymandering/

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article177281401.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/democrats-hate-gerrymanderingexcept-when-they-get-to-do-it

That was just page one of a quick google search. Voter ID laws can disenfranchise people, but still provides them an avenue to comply with some basic rules and guidelines. Stacking district decks via gerrymandering on the other hand, can effectively disenfranchise entire demographics or parties in certain areas, with no real respite.

I mean, go ahead now and cue the righteous indignation, equivocate, attack sources instead of substance...after lurking here awhile it seems to be SOP.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Neither party is close to a majority.

Hopefully it stays that way

 

[Ladoga]

http://www.inforum.com/news/governm...rt-rules-6-2-favor-north-dakotas-voter-id-law
This decision yesterday will likely prevent thousands of Native Americans from voting. They throw up obstacle after obstacle , publicize the fake meme of widespread voter fraud, all to keep as many people as possible from voting. It’s infuriating.

The Supreme Court found 6-2 on an election law and you say its the REPUBLICANS?

Just when it could get no worse you say that!

 

[mashnut]

On one side of the coin are things Republicans are actually doing. On the other side are things you imagine Democrats would do.

It's justified though, just look at California where all us crazy libs used our majority to disenfranchise voters establish a neutral committee to do redistricting. Wait...

 

[UncleMark]

I am not saying there aren't unintended or intended consequences of voter ID laws, but if there were a way for the Democrats to introduce this type of legislation to impede Republican voting without catching up too many of their own, can you really say with a straight face they wouldn't jump @ the chance? I mean both sides employ gerrymandering tactics in an attempt to stack the deck which to me is just another form of disenfranchisement. And hell, the dead voting Dem in Chicago Mayoral Races is legendary.

Again, 2 sides of the same coin.

yabbut

 

[Rockfish1]

Really?

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-...cuses-his-party-of-gerrymandering-in-proposed

https://www.richmond.com/news/virgi...cle_249ea133-ec64-506b-b497-fd679fe6f2f9.html

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...aryland-shows-redistricting-is-broken/531492/

http://thefederalist.com/2017/06/22/democrats-think-twice-seeking-end-gerrymandering/

https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/california-forum/article177281401.html

https://www.thedailybeast.com/democrats-hate-gerrymanderingexcept-when-they-get-to-do-it

That was just page one of a quick google search. Voter ID laws can disenfranchise people, but still provides them an avenue to comply with some basic rules and guidelines. Stacking district decks via gerrymandering on the other hand, can effectively disenfranchise entire demographics or parties in certain areas, with no real respite.

I mean, go ahead now and cue the righteous indignation, equivocate, attack sources instead of substance...after lurking here awhile it seems to be SOP.

Yes. There’s gerrymandering, which both sides do, but which only one side has repeatedly been struck down for on racial and other illegitimate grounds. Then there’s all the other stuff that was on your one-sided coin, just as I said.

 

[All4You]

Yes. There’s gerrymandering, which both sides do, but which only one side has repeatedly been struck down for on racial and other illegitimate grounds. Then there’s all the other stuff that was on your one-sided coin, just as I said.

So what you are saying is both sides do the wrong thing with Gerrymandering, yet still defend one (your) side over the other based on moral grounds (moral equivocation). You had implied before that your side doesn't disenfranchise voters, yet you admitted they gerrymander (the epitome of disenfranchisement). So it leads me to believe as I stated before, that if the Democrats could find a similar way to disenfranchise segments of the Republican voting bloc via a similar means to voter ID laws, without catching too many of their own in the process, it only stands to reason they would jump on it. The problem is they can't lol...but I am sure they have put MUCH thought into it. They have the track record.

As I said, two sides of the same coin...differing ideologies for sure, but both are complicit in dirty gamesmanship to wrest power from the other, we the people be damned.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

http://www.inforum.com/news/governm...rt-rules-6-2-favor-north-dakotas-voter-id-law
This decision yesterday will likely prevent thousands of Native Americans from voting. They throw up obstacle after obstacle , publicize the fake meme of widespread voter fraud, all to keep as many people as possible from voting. It’s infuriating.

As I’ve pointed out every time this comes up, polls continually indicate that 70 to 80 percent of Americans, including a majority of Democrats of all demographics, support a voter ID requirement. They support it because it’s a common sense way of helping to improve the integrity of our elections by improving the chances that people voting are eligible to vote. The only people that always oppose them, no matter how innocuous, are Democratic politicians and partisan Democratic activists. The question could just as easily be turned around to, “why do partisan Democrat activists want to make it easier for ineligible people to vote in our elections?”

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

It's justified though, just look at California where all us crazy libs used our majority to disenfranchise voters establish a neutral committee to do redistricting. Wait...

Yes, you should be more fair

 

[i'vegotwinners]

polling hours,

unexplained lack of ballots on election day in certain precincts,

lack of early voting sites in Dem areas,

gerrymandering,



let's not pretend both parties aren't in to dirty tricks.

let's also not pretend that Pubs aren't on a whole nother level in the dirty tricks and perverting democracy dept.

Pubs are the end justifies the means party, and play to win.

Dems are always many steps behind the GOP in playing the political game.

Pubs even had their financial backers acquire a majority interest in the Dem party to hedge their bets..

hard to top that move.

 

[iu_a_att]

As I’ve pointed out every time this comes up, polls continually indicate that 70 to 80 percent of Americans, including a majority of Democrats of all demographics, support a voter ID requirement. They support it because it’s a common sense way of helping to improve the integrity of our elections by improving the chances that people voting are eligible to vote. The only people that always oppose them, no matter how innocuous, at Democratic politicians and partisan Democratic activists. The question could just as easily be turned around to, “why partisan Democrat activists want to make it easier for ineligible people to vote in our elections?”

Poll results shed no practical light on what Americans actually support or don't. If we ask do you favor ensuring the integrity of the vote everyone answers yes. If we ask do you favor blocking minorities from voting almost everyone answers no. The republican project uses integrity of the vote as a pretext to pass id laws (along with the myriad other laws) whose only real purpose is disenfranchising voters. The democratic project opposes those republican efforts not because they favor ineligible people voting (a phenomena that simply hardly ever occurs and so is truly not useful to them anyway) but because the eligible voters being disenfranchised principally would support democrats.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Poll results shed no practical light on what Americans actually support or don't. If we ask do you favor ensuring the integrity of the vote everyone answers yes. If we ask do you favor blocking minorities from voting almost everyone answers no. The republican project uses integrity of the vote as a pretext to pass id laws (along with the myriad other laws) whose only real purpose is disenfranchising voters. The democratic project opposes those republican efforts not because they favor ineligible people voting (a phenomena that simply hardly ever occurs and so is truly not useful to them anyway) but because the eligible voters being disenfranchised principally would support democrats.

That’s a new one on the WC about polling, especially from a Democrat. The polls are what they are and if you read them you’d know they’re consistent and fair. You are among the partisan miniority of Democrats that doesn’t support a simple voter ID requirement. I’d like to assume noble intentions and you do not intend to increase the likelihood of ineligible voting, but you won’t do the same for me or the majority of Americans that support voter ID. Whatever your reasons, you are among a minority of Americans on the issue.

 

[iu_a_att]

That’s a new one on the WC about polling, especially from a Democrat. The polls are what they are and if you read them you’d know they’re consistent and fair. You are among the partisan miniority of Democrats that doesn’t support a simple voter ID requirement. I’d like to assume noble intentions and you do not intend to increase the likelihood of ineligible voting, but you won’t do the same for me or the majority of Americans that support voter ID. Whatever your reasons, you are among a minority of Americans on the issue.

Question wording is a huge deal on these issues. It in no way proves anything about whether ID requirements are a good idea. I am perfectly willing to assume that your intentions are noble. My intentions are noble too. Since our intentions are noble we should be able to have a reasoned discussion of the phenomena.
While our intentions are noble I am not willing to assume that either party has particularly noble intentions. Since neither party has much to gain or lose by preventing or promoting whatever small level of voter fraud that occurs that is not a good explanation for the behavior of the parties. Since both parties have a great deal to gain or lose by promoting much higher levels of participation that is where I look to understand the behavior of each party.