Who the hell defends this?
- Thread starter Aloha Hoosier
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Not specific to Harvard but for all US schools
76% of foreign students completing a PhD stay in the USA long term
51% of foreign students completing a master's degree stay in the USA long term
17% of foreign students completing a bachelor's degree stay in the USA long term
All Degree Levels (Bachelor's, Master's, PhD): 41%
These rates are trending down, as the number of international students attending American universities is growing, but visa pathways for skilled workers and entrepreneurs are not.
Most international graduates of American universities ultimately leave the U.S.
American universities graduate approximately 250,000 international students each year between bachelor’s, master’s, and doctoral programs. Yet most of these students do not remain in the United States long-term, in part due to scarce visas available for skilled workers.
eig.org
Interesting figures. Certainly we can agree that it would be good to keep highly skilled students with degrees in important economic sectors here rather than letting them go back home.Not specific to Harvard but for all US schools
76% of foreign students completing a PhD stay in the USA long term
51% of foreign students completing a master's degree stay in the USA long term
17% of foreign students completing a bachelor's degree stay in the USA long term
All Degree Levels (Bachelor's, Master's, PhD): 41%
These rates are trending down, as the number of international students attending American universities is growing, but visa pathways for skilled workers and entrepreneurs are not.
Most international graduates of American universities ultimately leave the U.S.
American universities graduate approximately 250,000 international students each year between bachelor’s, master’s, and doctoral programs. Yet most of these students do not remain in the United States long-term, in part due to scarce visas available for skilled workers.
But there is quite a lot of nonsense one can get their Masters or PHD in. And to those I would say thank you for the tuition money now good riddance to bad rubbish.
Who you have the cross tabs by area of study by chance?
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Two WTC terrorists were allowed in the U.S. on student visas. In order for an institution like Harvard to keep its certification as a location for student visa students, it must report certain things to DHS,
- Change of legal name
- Change of U.S. address
- Change of major field of study
- Change of education degree level
- Change of funding
- Authorization for off-campus employment
Harvard was unsurprisingly belligerent when DHS asked for information. After several months, the parties were still at an impasse, so Noem yanked the certificate.
Sure it did. While not in a strictly legal sense, it emboldened him, as he knows he will never be held to account.
Account for what? The issue is already in court as I’m sure the administration knew it would. This is called judicial review. There is no crime.
It's an important enough crime to be enumerated in the Constitution
The US Constitution prohibits foreigners from buying influence over the sitting president through the Emoluments Clause. This clause, specifically the Foreign Emoluments Clause, prohibits anyone holding an "Office of Profit or Trust under the United States" from receiving any "emolument" (profit, gain, or advantage) from a foreign concern without the consent of Congress.
Make no mistake, a clear majority of the pay-for-access crypto "guests" are foreign actors
An analysis by Bloomberg News found that all but six of the top 25 holders of the $TRUMP memecoin used foreign exchanges that are off-limits to anyone living in the US. More than half of the top 220 holders used similar offshore exchanges, Bloomberg found.
One publicly known guest is Justin Sun, the Chinese-born crypto entrepreneur, who wasn’t exactly hiding his status. Observers were pretty sure the billionaire was leading the pack when the auction’s public leaderboard displayed the username SUN topping the ranks. Sun later confirmed on social media Tuesday that he was “honored” to support Trump and excited to attend the gala “as his TOP fan!”
It's a good question.
I think we should (and probably do) track such stats. At a certain point it's a national security concern; for example if we're educating other nation's students in the hard sciences. Another issue, on which I am probably more America First than not, is whether we are funding the education of foreign nationals with US tax dollars.
A few Non-U.S. citizens can qualify for federal student aid and are known as "eligible noncitizens."
to qualify you must be
1) a U.S. national or permanent resident (green card holder).
2) hold a specified status reviewed and approved by US officials, such as Refugee, Asylum Awardee, Conditional Permanent Resident, Cuban-Haitian Entrant, Ukrainian entrant, some Afghan nationals (related to the pullout), human trafficking victim, victim of spousal abuse
All undocumented students, including Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) recipients, are not eligible for federal student aid but may still be eligible for other types of student financial aid (state aid, school aid, or private scholarships).
no, but Anecdotally, foreign scientists want to stay here more and are largely apolitical.
In my research group (all PhDs in chemistry) I have, besides me
2 US citizens
1 Pakistani citizen
1 Chinese citizen
1 Uzbekistani citizen
1 Indian citizen
In looking back, I don't think in the last 10 years I have ever had >50% of the group be from the USA. Other nationalities include a Brazilian, two from France, one from the UK (Scotland), one from Japan, one from Kenya.
Most represented are India & China.
Of ~60 people who have worked for me over 20 years, I can think of just three that left the USA. One went back to Japan to go into business and two went back to China to teach
The overwhelmingly most common desire is to stay in the USA and contribute to US science.
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BREAKING: Federal judge blocks Trump administration decision to bar foreign students at Harvard
apnews.com
Federal judge blocks Trump administration from barring foreign student enrollment at Harvard
A federal judge has blocked a Trump administration decision to revoke Harvard University’s ability to enroll international students.
apnews.com
I know it's hard to keep up with all Trump's criming, but I was referring to yesterday's bribe fest. That's not in court, is it?
Mark, do you have a problem with Chinese tycoons dropping off bags of cash (or the equivalent) for access? Not everybody has big beautiful jumbo jets to give away!
CoH, this is an interesting take on the extensive government reporting required of each foreign student here on a visa as a result of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
Suspect with over 1 million students on visas these reporting requirements must represent a rather large expense to the universities.
Have a hard time believing only Harvard is the only school not meeting all the government requirements.
I grew up in the Region. Most corrupt place in Indiana.
Right next to Chicago. Perhaps the most corrupt place in the USA.
When uncovered, invariably, the voters of Gary, Hammond, E. Chicago would shrug their shoulders and say, "Well, everybody does it."
The only difference I see between those places and the corruption of Trump White House is the size of the bribes.
Only difference between Regionites and Cooler posters is Da R voters accepted/condoned graft on either side/party.
Coolerites only condemn graft by the other side. My side's corruption is different.
Right next to Chicago. Perhaps the most corrupt place in the USA.
When uncovered, invariably, the voters of Gary, Hammond, E. Chicago would shrug their shoulders and say, "Well, everybody does it."
The only difference I see between those places and the corruption of Trump White House is the size of the bribes.
Only difference between Regionites and Cooler posters is Da R voters accepted/condoned graft on either side/party.
Coolerites only condemn graft by the other side. My side's corruption is different.
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I think we are seeing selective enforcement and that probably arose from other Harvard conduct.
I'm genuinely trying to figure out which corruption you think is bigger--Chicago v. Trump.
Other Harvard conduct being not abiding by Trump trying to tell them what to do
Suspect each Trump appointee is given a list of selective enforcement candidates.
Some might call it an enemies list.
Trump knows a lot about selective enforcement.
Stefanik nailed her at the beginning. As crazed has pointed out, the notion that Harvard or any of these elite universities would be so cautious and accommodating in dealing with a mass protest of people calling for the mass slaughter and genocide of African Americans is absurd.
Sure, that’s due to our own particular history, but it’s also due to anti-colonialist ideology embedded in higher education. People here need to stop burying their heads in the sand about this and hand waving it away. Just as the right needs to extirpate it’s violent and abhorrent sects and ideologies, so too does the left.
You should have stopped at “that’s due to our own particular history.”
You need to extirpate your haughtiness, condescension and propensity to upbraid.
A lot of organizations need to be weaned from the taxpayers' teat.
Often look back at the White House Correspondent's dinner when Obama trashed Trump as Trump sat there seething in the audiemce vowing silently to himself to return fire.
The begining of a what could be a string of executive narcisists (potential authoritarians) going amuck as Congress has it's political fights in a revolving sandbox.
Wasn’t this the crux of the argument for allowing protests? Freedom of speech only applies when convenient?
If you really think about it, college is a strange product.
They are selling an education "maybe", but you have to apply, meet certain qualifications, pass (tests). You won't be "fired" expelled for well anything.
The wildest thing that happened to me in college was, I was walking by a girl as I was going into the student union. She was on the phone with her mom, as I overheard, she said "I'm pregnant and I don't know who the dad is!' My first thought, she's DTF and I don't have to worry about knocking her up.
They are selling an education "maybe", but you have to apply, meet certain qualifications, pass (tests). You won't be "fired" expelled for well anything.
The wildest thing that happened to me in college was, I was walking by a girl as I was going into the student union. She was on the phone with her mom, as I overheard, she said "I'm pregnant and I don't know who the dad is!' My first thought, she's DTF and I don't have to worry about knocking her up.
You know, I cant disagree. If a relationship you want to be successful, why start out in the negative.
You are confusing freedom of speech (meaning govt can't go after you / can't be arrested) with freedom from consequences. Although Trump seems to think the govt can go after you
People face consequences all the time from stuff they say. Loss of jobs, loss of friends, loss of social group etc. that is not the same as being put in jail.
Start posting on Facebook about how awful your boss and company are and you would get an example of the difference as you will likely be looking for new employment but not be in jail.
People have every right to boycott companies or people in this instance. Happens all the time, even though mostly short lived
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Those protests were disrupting the schools purpose and allowing blatant harassment of certain people.
Time and place restrictions on speech are constitutional and do not limit freedom of speech.
Not sure what you guys are talking about. The subject was jdb's Twitter post about people boycotting maga followers and not dating them. Mark responding to jdb's Twitter post, jdb responded and brought up freedom of speech and I correctly said it had nothing to do with freedom of speech.
Not sure what protest you are claiming was at the wrong time or place since that tangent wasn't discussing that but I would assume there has to be actual good reason to use that otherwise people would claim a wrong time or place to any protest they disagree with.
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The post from "Harvard" describes shunning Trump supporters. Should that not be allowed?
I think I am most of the way here with you. The foreign students that come to rabble rouse should be tossed out on their ass. I would also have certain majors that I would prohibit foreign nationals from taking (for instance, sorry Iranian students, you don't get taught nuclear engineering in the U.S.) That being said, I think Trump overstepped.
The top of all of these places are basically money whores. You compel behavior by labeling quite a bit of this "oppressor/oppressed" nonsense as vaguely disguised racism and you withhold funds for that. They will change course for money.
Although the reporting on this is horrible because of bias and laziness, here is where I think the disagreement is. Let’s say Harvard enrolled 2,000 foreign Islamic students under the student visa program. A handful of those students participated in activities that intimidated Jews and harassed them. There is no issue with the majority. Noem wants to revoke the visas of the offenders. Harvard refuses to disclose the necessary records citing student privacy driven by its reflexive opposition to Trump. Maybe also because of notions of sanctuary. The parties tried to negotiate through this disagreement. No resolution. So Noem revoked Harvard’s certification for all students under the student visa program. Now the issue is in court ant the court will sort out the privacy rights of student protesters vs civil rights of Jewish students.
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