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UncleMark said:
I can actually appreciate that. I was a beancounter at heart.
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I didn't even think about business as a major because I couldn't think of anything more boring.

Then, to get my MBA, I had to take all these basic business classes before I could take the graduate courses. I loved my accounting class. I had dreaded it, but I took right to it. Same with my Basic Computer Programming class - I knew nothing about programming computers and was scared to death, because it was a required course. I found it to be fun and ended up in IT.

I'm a big proponent of requiring certain college classes, no matter what school they're in. At a young age, you just don't know what you really want to do (well, most don't) until you get a taste of it.
 
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Mark Milton said:
I would have figured DANC would have been travelling the road with Blue Oyster Cult and posing as Buck Dharma's stand in..... :)
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Oh, trust me - if I could have figured out how to do it, I would have.
 
cosmickid said:
It's complicated and I'm personally conflicted. Both sides share pretty much equal shares of the blame, and both are also victims. That's not going to be a popular opinion with the average American, but the average American thinks of Israel as the "good guys" and everyone else as the villain.
Click to expand...

Good post and I generally agree with much. But, to be clear, the average American may think of Israel as the good guys, but they aren't going to violently protest against Hamas and Palestinian terrorism, nor should they. However, the reverse is true.

Part of the reason Israel is painted as the "good guys" in some (not all) points of view is because of three things: 1) the constant attacks it faced from 1948 until the 1990s (obviously plenty happened after, but on a lower volume basis), 2) the idealism that Israel outwardly communicates is far more aligned with that of the U.S. (and Western countries broadly) than are those of Arabic nations and 3) there is a strong relationship between the political and business communities.

That doesn't mean Israel is perfect and the settlement expansion strategy is deserved of reasonable backlash. It should never have been allowed or pursued.

I have no idea where or how things move forward, but I don't think anything is going to materially change in the near-term.
 
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cosmickid said:
"we then imported a bunch of Communists during WW2 (they were the enemy of Hitler), and seeded them at Brandeis, Columbia, Berkely, and Yale. And then the Marxist rot spread over the next 60-80 years and here we are".

The problem with a blanket statement like this applied to a thread discussing proported "anti-Semitism" being spread by Marxists, is that a great many Marxists are Jewish. Both Marx and Engels were born into Jewish families, as were many of the Bolsheviks such as Trotsky. The whole history of Revolutionary Russia is rife with examples of the Czar and the Orthodox clergy organizing pogroms against Jews. Fiddler on the Roof, anyone?

The other huge problem with some of the terminology being used is that Semites are not exclusively Jewish. Semite is a 19th Century term and refers to people who spoke semitic languages...

"Semite, name given in the 19th century to a member of any people who speak one of the Semitic languages, a family of languages spoken primarily in parts of western Asia and Africa. The term therefore came to include Arabs, Akkadians, Canaanites, Hebrews, some Ethiopians (including the Amhara and the Tigrayans), and Aramaean tribes."

So trying to apply "semite" exclusively to Jews is a bastardization of what the term "semite" actually means...The more appropriate term to apply to mainly right wing elements in the Israeli Govt and it's supporters is Zionist. But again not all Israelis (much less Jews) are Zionist. Neither Israelis or Jews are monolithic. Many people in Israel (some religious,some not) do not support the occupation of Palestine, the settlements or the current war.

It's an extremely complex issue dating back not only to the creation of Israel in 1948, but back into the history of Western Colonialism. Particularly in this case the British strategy of divide and conquer.

Pitting Muslim and Jew against each other in Palestine is remarkably similar to the strategy employed of pitting Hindu vs Muslim vs each other on the Indian subcontinent. And coincidentally enough it was in the aftermath of WW2 amidst the dissolution of the British Empire and the resulting creation of new nations from former British colonies that the situation we find ourselves in occurred.

Israel is created and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are displaced. India gains independence and Hindus and Muslims slaughter each other resulting in the seperate state of Pakistan. The US sided with Israel and India because the Soviets sided with the Arabs in Palestine (the region) and Pakistan. So in a sense the mess we currently see, esp in the middle east is a legacy of the Cold war.

It's unfortunate that after being removed from office BiBi didn't just fade into obscurity. Not only is he corrupt, but he was so desperate to regain power (and delay prosecution) that he formed coalitions with some of the most Zionist elements and parties in Israeli politics, esp with regards to settlements and displacement of Palestinians. Which in turn increased Hamas' control/support in Gaza.There are also reports that he ignored intelligence briefings regarding increased threats...

It's a seemingly never ending cycle of violence.Elements in Israel want to eradicate Palestinians, and increased repression of Palestinians is essnetially a recuriting campaign for groups like Hamas. Hamas strikes in a horrific attack vs settlers and Israel responds with all out war in a totally disproportionate manner. And Palestinian and Israeli citizens are caught in the middle.

It's complicated and I'm personally conflicted. Both sides share pretty much equal shares of the blame, and both are also victims. That's not going to be a popular opinion with the average American, but the average American thinks of Israel as the "good guys" and everyone else as the villain.

I'm not an expert, but I certainly have a broad enough understanding of the history and issues involved to reject such a simplistic notion. I don't think I'd be demonstrating on either side, it's just too complex an issue.But my sympathies are for the innocents on both sides caught in the middle, and I'm hoping for a ceasefire. Soon...
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You have an understanding of history? Perhaps you can provide a map with the nation of Palestine on it.
 
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DANC said:
You have an understanding of history? Perhaps you can provide a map with the nation of Palestine on it.
Click to expand...
Most miss that Palestinians are supposedly descendants of Canaan(canaanites) and thus they are undesirable. Thats why Arabs, Jews, Persians don’t particularly want them. Even though they share a lot of heritage. Very complicated issue that I still don’t fully understand.
 
Victorbmyboy said:
Most miss that Palestinians are supposedly descendants of Canaan(canaanites) and thus they are undesirable. Thats why Arabs, Jews, Persians don’t particularly want them. Very complicated issue that I still don’t fully understand.
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Canaan must be Hebrew for "crazy mother****ers".
 
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Victorbmyboy said:
Most miss that Palestinians are supposedly descendants of Canaan(canaanites) and thus they are undesirable. Thats why Arabs, Jews, Persians don’t particularly want them. Even though they share a lot of heritage. Very complicated issue that I still don’t fully understand.
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Ironically, it's actually the Jews who are likely defended from Canaanites, and they Palestinians are more likely from Arab stock.
 
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DANC said:
Canaan must be Hebrew for "crazy mother****ers".
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Well Moses was to inherit Canaan(promised land) for the Jews. So this is how long this has been going on. It’s very much a religious thing. There is no easy solution and these protests are not going to remotely solve it. Violence is part of the history and will continue in the name of God.
 
TheOriginalHappyGoat said:
Ironically, it's actually the Jews who are likely defended from Canaanites, and they Palestinians are more likely from Arab stock.
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That’s the dirty secret that’s been argued. Like I said it’s not an easy subject. I know just enough to discuss it a little.DNA shows they all share DNA quite a bit.
 
Victorbmyboy said:
Most miss that Palestinians are supposedly descendants of Canaan(canaanites) and thus they are undesirable. Thats why Arabs, Jews, Persians don’t particularly want them. Even though they share a lot of heritage. Very complicated issue that I still don’t fully understand.
Click to expand...

Biblical Archeology did a significant amount of research on this question:

www.biblicalarchaeology.org

Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites

DNA analysis of 93 bodies recovered from archaeological sites around the southern Levant shows that modern Jewish and Arab-speaking groups of the region are descendants of the ancient Canaanites.
www.biblicalarchaeology.org www.biblicalarchaeology.org
 
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DANC said:
You have an understanding of history? Perhaps you can provide a map with the nation of Palestine on it.
Click to expand...
You won't find many maps of Israel either. You can actually go to the Library of Congress and pull up maps of that area from BCE through the current date. Here is the map during the time of Jesus--just for example purposes:

www.loc.gov

Palestine in the time of Jesus, 4 B.C. - 30 A.D. : (including the period of Herod, 40 - 4 B.C.)

Relief shown by hachures. Available also through the Library of Congress Web site as a raster image. Inset: Jerusalem during the Roman period, scale ca. 1:11,000. 17 x 14 cm. Inset: Herod's temple, scale ca. 1:3500. 14 x 10 cm.
www.loc.gov
 
Mark Milton said:
You won't find many maps of Israel either. You can actually go to the Library of Congress and pull up maps of that area from BCE through the current date. Here is the map during the time of Jesus--just for example purposes:

www.loc.gov

Palestine in the time of Jesus, 4 B.C. - 30 A.D. : (including the period of Herod, 40 - 4 B.C.)

Relief shown by hachures. Available also through the Library of Congress Web site as a raster image. Inset: Jerusalem during the Roman period, scale ca. 1:11,000. 17 x 14 cm. Inset: Herod's temple, scale ca. 1:3500. 14 x 10 cm.
www.loc.gov
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But there are historical records of Israel and Judea.

Whether people like it or not, the Bible is a pretty good historical document, that's been verified over time.
 
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JamieDimonsBalls said:
Good post and I generally agree with much. But, to be clear, the average American may think of Israel as the good guys, but they aren't going to violently protest against Hamas and Palestinian terrorism, nor should they. However, the reverse is true.

Part of the reason Israel is painted as the "good guys" in some (not all) points of view is because of three things: 1) the constant attacks it faced from 1948 until the 1990s (obviously plenty happened after, but on a lower volume basis), 2) the idealism that Israel outwardly communicates is far more aligned with that of the U.S. (and Western countries broadly) than are those of Arabic nations and 3) there is a strong relationship between the political and business communities.

That doesn't mean Israel is perfect and the settlement expansion strategy is deserved of reasonable backlash. It should never have been allowed or pursued.

I have no idea where or how things move forward, but I don't think anything is going to materially change in the near-term.
Click to expand...
I dunno.

Jews and Christians are oppressed if not exterminated throughout the middle East. Muslims oppress and exterminate each other in addition to Jews and Cristians. There is one place where this doesn’t happen. Israel. Israel is 3/4 Jewish. The others seem to get along fine.

As you note, Israel has many other enlightened ideals going for it. I’m pretty much convinced that the way forward is obvious. Life is simply better and more peaceful in Israel—except for the constant Iranian-inspired attacks and hate. The 1000’s of years of hate is a real problem, hate that is being taught as I write this.
 
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cosmickid said:
"we then imported a bunch of Communists during WW2 (they were the enemy of Hitler), and seeded them at Brandeis, Columbia, Berkely, and Yale. And then the Marxist rot spread over the next 60-80 years and here we are".

The problem with a blanket statement like this applied to a thread discussing proported "anti-Semitism" being spread by Marxists, is that a great many Marxists are Jewish. Both Marx and Engels were born into Jewish families, as were many of the Bolsheviks such as Trotsky. The whole history of Revolutionary Russia is rife with examples of the Czar and the Orthodox clergy organizing pogroms against Jews. Fiddler on the Roof, anyone?

The other huge problem with some of the terminology being used is that Semites are not exclusively Jewish. Semite is a 19th Century term and refers to people who spoke semitic languages...

"Semite, name given in the 19th century to a member of any people who speak one of the Semitic languages, a family of languages spoken primarily in parts of western Asia and Africa. The term therefore came to include Arabs, Akkadians, Canaanites, Hebrews, some Ethiopians (including the Amhara and the Tigrayans), and Aramaean tribes."

So trying to apply "semite" exclusively to Jews is a bastardization of what the term "semite" actually means...The more appropriate term to apply to mainly right wing elements in the Israeli Govt and it's supporters is Zionist. But again not all Israelis (much less Jews) are Zionist. Neither Israelis or Jews are monolithic. Many people in Israel (some religious,some not) do not support the occupation of Palestine, the settlements or the current war.

It's an extremely complex issue dating back not only to the creation of Israel in 1948, but back into the history of Western Colonialism. Particularly in this case the British strategy of divide and conquer.

Pitting Muslim and Jew against each other in Palestine is remarkably similar to the strategy employed of pitting Hindu vs Muslim vs each other on the Indian subcontinent. And coincidentally enough it was in the aftermath of WW2 amidst the dissolution of the British Empire and the resulting creation of new nations from former British colonies that the situation we find ourselves in occurred.

Israel is created and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are displaced. India gains independence and Hindus and Muslims slaughter each other resulting in the seperate state of Pakistan. The US sided with Israel and India because the Soviets sided with the Arabs in Palestine (the region) and Pakistan. So in a sense the mess we currently see, esp in the middle east is a legacy of the Cold war.

It's unfortunate that after being removed from office BiBi didn't just fade into obscurity. Not only is he corrupt, but he was so desperate to regain power (and delay prosecution) that he formed coalitions with some of the most Zionist elements and parties in Israeli politics, esp with regards to settlements and displacement of Palestinians. Which in turn increased Hamas' control/support in Gaza.There are also reports that he ignored intelligence briefings regarding increased threats...

It's a seemingly never ending cycle of violence.Elements in Israel want to eradicate Palestinians, and increased repression of Palestinians is essnetially a recuriting campaign for groups like Hamas. Hamas strikes in a horrific attack vs settlers and Israel responds with all out war in a totally disproportionate manner. And Palestinian and Israeli citizens are caught in the middle.

It's complicated and I'm personally conflicted. Both sides share pretty much equal shares of the blame, and both are also victims. That's not going to be a popular opinion with the average American, but the average American thinks of Israel as the "good guys" and everyone else as the villain.

I'm not an expert, but I certainly have a broad enough understanding of the history and issues involved to reject such a simplistic notion. I don't think I'd be demonstrating on either side, it's just too complex an issue.But my sympathies are for the innocents on both sides caught in the middle, and I'm hoping for a ceasefire. Soon...
Click to expand...
There irony is in your first sentence? And I used that term specifically because it is the actual ideology & religion that leads itself to conundrum you astutely point out.

The worldview of Marxists, secular materialism, has a foundation built on sand, and therefore the hypocrisy shines through in moments like we are seeing play out now.
 
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Hoosier in Mad Town said:
There irony is in your first sentence? And I used that term specifically because it is the actual ideology & religion that leads itself to conundrum you astutely point out.

The worldview of Marxists, secular materialism, has a foundation built on sand, and therefore the hypocrisy shines through in moments like we are seeing play out now.
Click to expand...
Secular materialist here. Foundations are as strong as anything out there. Don’t see the hypocrisy link.
 
DANC said:
You have an understanding of history? Perhaps you can provide a map with the nation of Palestine on it.
Click to expand...
Just as soon as you provide a pre-1948 map with the nation of Israel on it. The Brits referred to the entire area of the mandate as Palestine. Are you suggesting that the inhabitants of the pre-1948 land mass regarded as Palestine who basically have the term Palestine in their name don't at least deserve a homeland?

That's a huge part of the problem of assigning "homelands" on the basis of claiming that "God gave us the land". That works within your specific "religion", but it carries very little if any legitimacy for people outside the scope of your own religion.

This is why the settlement issue is such a bitter dispute. One side claims God gave them the land, and they use that rationale to displace families from land they've owned and homes they've lived in for generations.Many Israeli "settlers" are actually Jewish immigrants from the US and elsewhere who have employed their own brand of Manifest destiny to in effect steal land from people whose families have lived there for the last century or longer.
 
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UncleMark said:
Did they cover Voodoo Economics? 😛
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My curiosity is why I took the course. If I had a do over I wouldn’t take the class.

Outside of accounting I would have taken philosophy courses that focused on critical thinking and some religious studies classes.

Too late for me and my son ignored my suggestions. Lol
 
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cosmickid said:
Just as soon as you provide a pre-1948 map with the nation of Israel on it. The Brits referred to the entire area of the mandate as Palestine. Are you suggesting that the inhabitants of the pre-1948 land mass regarded as Palestine who basically have the term Palestine in their name don't at least deserve a homeland?

That's a huge part of the problem of assigning "homelands" on the basis of claiming that "God gave us the land". That works within your specific "religion", but it carries very little if any legitimacy for people outside the scope of your own religion.

This is why the settlement issue is such a bitter dispute. One side claims God gave them the land, and they use that rationale to displace families from land they've owned and homes they've lived in for generations.Many Israeli "settlers" are actually Jewish immigrants from the US and elsewhere who have employed their own brand of Manifest destiny to in effect steal land from people whose families have lived there for the last century or longer.
Click to expand...
You do realize that text, Genesis, is a holy book for the 3 “monotheistic” religions?

Ancient Egyptian texts also reference Israel
www.ancient-origins.net

The Merneptah Stele: Proof Ancient Egypt Knew of the Israelites

The Merneptah Stele, also known as the Israel Stele or Victory Stele of Merneptah, in considered to be one of the most significant archaeological artifacts ever discovered in ancient Egypt.
www.ancient-origins.net www.ancient-origins.net
 
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cosmickid said:
Just as soon as you provide a pre-1948 map with the nation of Israel on it. The Brits referred to the entire area of the mandate as Palestine. Are you suggesting that the inhabitants of the pre-1948 land mass regarded as Palestine who basically have the term Palestine in their name don't at least deserve a homeland?

That's a huge part of the problem of assigning "homelands" on the basis of claiming that "God gave us the land". That works within your specific "religion", but it carries very little if any legitimacy for people outside the scope of your own religion.

This is why the settlement issue is such a bitter dispute. One side claims God gave them the land, and they use that rationale to displace families from land they've owned and homes they've lived in for generations.Many Israeli "settlers" are actually Jewish immigrants from the US and elsewhere who have employed their own brand of Manifest destiny to in effect steal land from people whose families have lived there for the last century or longer.
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Evidently you didn't look at Milton's map above, which clearly had Judeah on it.

You know Judeah - where Jerusalem is?
 
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CO. Hoosier said:
I dunno.

Jews and Christians are oppressed if not exterminated throughout the middle East. Muslims oppress and exterminate each other in addition to Jews and Cristians. There is one place where this doesn’t happen. Israel. Israel is 3/4 Jewish. The others seem to get along fine.

As you note, Israel has many other enlightened ideals going for it. I’m pretty much convinced that the way forward is obvious. Life is simply better and more peaceful in Israel—except for the constant Iranian-inspired attacks and hate. The 1000’s of years of hate is a real problem, hate that is being taught as I write this.
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I said before it's complicated.

Palestinians were displaced by the formation of Israel in 1948. Many were resettled in territories which at that time were under Arab control, like East Jerusalem Gaza, Golan etc... Subsequently some of those territories were lost during various wars, such as East Jerusalem which had been under Jordanian control when Palestinians were resettled there. The Israeli army occupied East Jerusalem, settlers moved in and once again the Palestinians were displaced...

Palestinians did not make up the Jordanian army or the Egyptian army or any of the other Arab armies that engaged in war with Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees were just the collateral damage that resulted from Israeli occupation of territories where they had originally been resettled to after the 1948 creation of Israel and subsequent Arab-Israeli wars.

Palestinians were treated like second class citizens while living under both Arab control and Israeli occupation. Basically they didn't ask for any of the events which they had very little control over. They were just caught in the middle. But for you to claim that "Jews and Christians were oppressed" as if they were the only victims, or that oppression (of non-Jews) doesn't happen in Israel is just basically ignoring reality.

Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as the "Capital of Israel" was basically a slap in the face to Palestinians and essentially an endorsement of the tenets of one religious philosophy (Judeo-Christian) over the millions of non-Jews who also regard Jerusalem as sacred.

It served to exacerbate tensions and further inflame bitterness among people who regard Israel as an invading miltary occupation force. And the settler policy in general has in many instances served as a method of stealing Paletinian land and homes under the guise of lawful acquisition. The disgustingly obese theif in this video is Jacob from New York who excuses his own dastardly act by theorizing that "someone is going to steal this family's land, so it might as well be me"...

 
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stollcpa said:
My curiosity is why I took the course. If I had a do over I wouldn’t take the class.

Outside of accounting I would have taken philosophy courses that focused on critical thinking and some religious studies classes.

Too late for me and my son ignored my suggestions. Lol
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It’s not too late. Plenty of online offerings.
 
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cosmickid said:
I said before it's complicated.

Palestinians were displaced by the formation of Israel in 1948. Many were resettled in territories which at that time were under Arab control, like East Jerusalem Gaza, Golan etc... Subsequently some of those territories were lost during various wars, such as East Jerusalem which had been under Jordanian control when Palestinians were resettled there. The Israeli army occupied East Jerusalem, settlers moved in and once again the Palestinians were displaced...

Palestinians did not make up the Jordanian army or the Egyptian army or any of the other Arab armies that engaged in war with Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees were just the collateral damage that resulted from Israeli occupation of territories where they had originally been resettled to after the 1948 creation of Israel and subsequent Arab-Israeli wars.

Palestinians were treated like second class citizens while living under both Arab control and Israeli occupation. Basically they didn't ask for any of the events which they had very little control over. They were just caught in the middle. But for you to claim that "Jews and Christians were oppressed" as if they were the only victims, or that oppression (of non-Jews) doesn't happen in Israel is just basically ignoring reality.

Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as the "Capital of Israel" was basically a slap in the face to Palestinians and essentially an endorsement of the tenets of one religious philosophy (Judeo-Christian) over the millions of non-Jews who also regard Jerusalem as sacred.

It served to exacerbate tensions and further inflame bitterness among people who regard Israel as an invading miltary occupation force. And the settler policy in general has in many instances served as a method of stealing Paletinian land and homes under the guise of lawful acquisition. The disgustingly obese theif in this video is Jacob from New York who excuses his own dastardly act by theorizing that "someone is going to steal this family's land, so it might as well be me"...

View embedded media
Click to expand...
Why are we artificially limiting history to the past 1500 years for purposes of this discussion?
 
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DANC said:
Evidently you didn't look at Milton's map above, which clearly had Judeah on it.

You know Judeah - where Jerusalem is?
Click to expand...
I was referencing the maps from 1947 showing the proposed partition of Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state. Jerusalem was designed to be an International zone which was within the territory of the Arab state but was accessable to both Jews and Muslims. Think Berlin which in 1947 was technically within East Germany but was a divided city with the West controlling the western portion of the city.

en.wikipedia.org

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The point I was making is that after the intial Arab/Israeli war when the Israeli's captured vast amounts of territory, East Jerusalem was still under Jordanian control. Palestinians had already been driven out in large part of the original 1948 state of Israel. After the war, the UN resettled hundreds of thousands of them in states still under Arab control, like East Jerusalem.

In subsequent wars when the Arabs lost more land, Israel expanded and the Palestinians were displaced again, often for the 2nd or 3rd time. Basically the Palestinians were just trying to survive, but once again they got the short end of the stick.

I don't think there can ever be peace in the Region without a two state solution. But extremists on both sides (Hamas and right wing elements within the Israeli Govt and settler movement) have unabashedly worked to insure that concept failing.
 
cosmickid said:
I was referencing the maps from 1947 showing the proposed partition of Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state. Jerusalem was designed to be an International zone which was within the territory of the Arab state but was accessable to both Jews and Muslims. Think Berlin which in 1947 was technically within East Germany but was a divided city with the West controlling the western portion of the city.

en.wikipedia.org

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

The point I was making is that after the intial Arab/Israeli war when the Israeli's captured vast amounts of territory, East Jerusalem was still under Jordanian control. Palestinians had already been driven out in large part of the original 1948 state of Israel. After the war, the UN resettled hundreds of thousands of them in states still under Arab control, like East Jerusalem.

In subsequent wars when the Arabs lost more land, Israel expanded and the Palestinians were displaced again, often for the 2nd or 3rd time. Basically the Palestinians were just trying to survive, but once again they got the short end of the stick.

I don't think there can ever be peace in the Region without a two state solution. But extremists on both sides (Hamas and right wing elements within the Israeli Govt and settler movement) have unabashedly worked to insure that concept failing.
Click to expand...
lmao No, you asked me to provide a pre-1948 map with Israel on it. I pointed out a map to you. Now, you produce a map with Palestine on it. Pre-1948, of course.

I'm not going to educate you about how the current Israel came about and how they didn't run Arabs out, because you can't be convinced. The fact is, the UN divided the land and Arabs tried to seize land by force, got their ass kicked, and created the refugee situation we have today.
 
cosmickid said:
"we then imported a bunch of Communists during WW2 (they were the enemy of Hitler), and seeded them at Brandeis, Columbia, Berkely, and Yale. And then the Marxist rot spread over the next 60-80 years and here we are".

The problem with a blanket statement like this applied to a thread discussing proported "anti-Semitism" being spread by Marxists, is that a great many Marxists are Jewish. Both Marx and Engels were born into Jewish families, as were many of the Bolsheviks such as Trotsky. The whole history of Revolutionary Russia is rife with examples of the Czar and the Orthodox clergy organizing pogroms against Jews. Fiddler on the Roof, anyone?

The other huge problem with some of the terminology being used is that Semites are not exclusively Jewish. Semite is a 19th Century term and refers to people who spoke semitic languages...

"Semite, name given in the 19th century to a member of any people who speak one of the Semitic languages, a family of languages spoken primarily in parts of western Asia and Africa. The term therefore came to include Arabs, Akkadians, Canaanites, Hebrews, some Ethiopians (including the Amhara and the Tigrayans), and Aramaean tribes."

So trying to apply "semite" exclusively to Jews is a bastardization of what the term "semite" actually means...The more appropriate term to apply to mainly right wing elements in the Israeli Govt and it's supporters is Zionist. But again not all Israelis (much less Jews) are Zionist. Neither Israelis or Jews are monolithic. Many people in Israel (some religious,some not) do not support the occupation of Palestine, the settlements or the current war.

It's an extremely complex issue dating back not only to the creation of Israel in 1948, but back into the history of Western Colonialism. Particularly in this case the British strategy of divide and conquer.

Pitting Muslim and Jew against each other in Palestine is remarkably similar to the strategy employed of pitting Hindu vs Muslim vs each other on the Indian subcontinent. And coincidentally enough it was in the aftermath of WW2 amidst the dissolution of the British Empire and the resulting creation of new nations from former British colonies that the situation we find ourselves in occurred.

Israel is created and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians are displaced. India gains independence and Hindus and Muslims slaughter each other resulting in the seperate state of Pakistan. The US sided with Israel and India because the Soviets sided with the Arabs in Palestine (the region) and Pakistan. So in a sense the mess we currently see, esp in the middle east is a legacy of the Cold war.

It's unfortunate that after being removed from office BiBi didn't just fade into obscurity. Not only is he corrupt, but he was so desperate to regain power (and delay prosecution) that he formed coalitions with some of the most Zionist elements and parties in Israeli politics, esp with regards to settlements and displacement of Palestinians. Which in turn increased Hamas' control/support in Gaza.There are also reports that he ignored intelligence briefings regarding increased threats...

It's a seemingly never ending cycle of violence.Elements in Israel want to eradicate Palestinians, and increased repression of Palestinians is essnetially a recuriting campaign for groups like Hamas. Hamas strikes in a horrific attack vs settlers and Israel responds with all out war in a totally disproportionate manner. And Palestinian and Israeli citizens are caught in the middle.

It's complicated and I'm personally conflicted. Both sides share pretty much equal shares of the blame, and both are also victims. That's not going to be a popular opinion with the average American, but the average American thinks of Israel as the "good guys" and everyone else as the villain.

I'm not an expert, but I certainly have a broad enough understanding of the history and issues involved to reject such a simplistic notion. I don't think I'd be demonstrating on either side, it's just too complex an issue.But my sympathies are for the innocents on both sides caught in the middle, and I'm hoping for a ceasefire. Soon...
Click to expand...
If Israel responded with all out war, as you suggest they did, every man, woman, & child in Palestine would be dead. Get real…
 
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