What will we do about the looming retirement crisis?

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Agreed. I think we’re long past any “good” solutions and have entered the time period where two choices remain, the foolish (as you note re: the Fed) or the tragic.

Old people are killing this country financially. And everything we do relative to medical research involves people living longer than they could before.

Additionally we’re introducing efficiency/productivity transforming technologies like AI which will shrink the workforce while we’re raising retirement ages. Now young people can’t get into the market or have to do it at a substantially reduced income from the forebears.

I literally can’t conceive an approach which doesn’t radically transform our way of life and government. We tend not to think of the ramifications of this progress and what it means for humanity. At some point we just don’t need all these damn people around because there’s no work for them to do.

Will we see a population decline begin in our lifetimes? The rate of increase is slowing but will it go negative in the next 20 years or so?

Don't forget that I had money taken from every paycheck and given to the government. Until I receive that money back, and my lost earnings on that money, I think I deserve every penny.

Maybe Fauci can fund another ChiCom research effort that will kill off a few more million old folks? Save you youngsters some tax increases?

 

[76-1]

Agreed. I think we’re long past any “good” solutions and have entered the time period where two choices remain, the foolish (as you note re: the Fed) or the tragic.

Old people are killing this country financially. And everything we do relative to medical research involves people living longer than they could before.

Additionally we’re introducing efficiency/productivity transforming technologies like AI which will shrink the workforce while we’re raising retirement ages. Now young people can’t get into the market or have to do it at a substantially reduced income from the forebears.

I literally can’t conceive an approach which doesn’t radically transform our way of life and government. We tend not to think of the ramifications of this progress and what it means for humanity. At some point we just don’t need all these damn people around because there’s no work for them to do.

Will we see a population decline begin in our lifetimes? The rate of increase is slowing but will it go negative in the next 20 years or so?

We're dying as fast as we can... Some of us are just tougher to kill than others... Sorry...

 

[twenty02]

Current jobs, yes. I agree with that.

But I don’t think we’re likely to see labor writ large idled nearly to the extent that people fear. We’re a pretty nimble species.

Whoa man. I really disagree.

We're going into an era that's going to be dominated by tech, specifically AI.

Outside of physically building stuff, there won't be a future employment structure for most of the white collar jobs that exist today. The have and have not are going to greatly widen. Trading daily labor for wages will be considered archaic

You either have capital or not. Those that do will get very rich. Those that don't are going to be continuing to fight for less and less scraps.

There's no special sauce about America. We had massive advantages that resulted from the outcome of WW2. An industrial base that's the wasn't destroyed, etc.... We've lived off of that a long time. That's coming to an end

 

[bailey777]

Of course they won't. Can't raise taxes. Even when they should.

Why should they thats not even a high income for a family its middle class, Your politics make sense now plus i thought you were married you used to claim, If you wife died i am sorry but you used to claim your wife got mad because of trump and now you say you are single

 

[bailey777]

Raise the cap and treat benefits as normal income for taxation purposes. That's enough. I don't want the government telling an office worker with a bad back that he has to work longer than a fit and healthy laboreri

i have bad back but i continue to work. Its called working

 

[Baller23Boogie]

i have bad back but i continue to work. Its called working

So, your experience is going to be the exact same as everyone else with back issues.

Makes total sense.

Think harder next time.

 

[larsIU]

Don't forget that I had money taken from every paycheck and given to the government. Until I receive that money back, and my lost earnings on that money, I think I deserve every penny.

Maybe Fauci can fund another ChiCom research effort that will kill off a few more million old folks? Save you youngsters some tax increases?

Maybe but I rather like old people and am aspiring to be one myself some day.

I think we need to reconsider how we deal with the issues and costs of aging in our modern advanced society.

 

[Spartans9312]

Maybe but I rather like old people and am aspiring to be one myself some day.

I think we need to reconsider how we deal with the issues and costs of aging in our modern advanced society.

We need to eliminate Medicare disability and SSI for those that aren’t truly disabled. From my perch at the pharmacy….that is about 90% of the cases. Yes that’s probably a drop in the bucket overall but those drops add up over time.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

That's a whole lotta words to say little more than "taxes are bad." SS has a revenue problem. Big picture wise, lifting the cap and taxing benefits as regular income is the simplest and most equitable fix, one that will be barely felt even by those effected, and one that could be implemented with the least political cost.

Having watched you post for many years now it’s quite clear you think new businesses, products and services grow on some sort of tree and that the idea of low taxes driving capital investment is to be completely discarded.

Milk the rich, there are no consequences.

Hard to understand how you got this late in life and can still be so ignorant.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Don't forget that I had money taken from every paycheck and given to the government. Until I receive that money back, and my lost earnings on that money, I think I deserve every penny.

Maybe Fauci can fund another ChiCom research effort that will kill off a few more million old folks? Save you youngsters some tax increases?

"We put those payroll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those [payroll] taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program." - FDR

The program was designed from the beginning to put anyone dealing with it in this place. Retired individuals feel enititled to it because they were taxed in their youth to fund the retirement of the generations before them. The problem being that the generation now reaching or of retirement age is living longer, holding jobs longer (denying career opportunities to younger generation often at the highest organizational rungs), and is larger than the young taxpayers that are carrying the burden of paying their retirement.

There are a bunch of people in my parent's generation who voted to "cut the fat" in government not realizing that they are the fat.

 

[Pryght]

My first thought is that it would be nice if Doc and Marty could let us borrow their DeLorean so somebody could go back to 1935 and show the designers of this system its glaring flaws and fate.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Having watched you post for many years now it’s quite clear you think new businesses, products and services grow on some sort of tree and that the idea of low taxes driving capital investment is to be completely discarded.

Milk the rich, there are no consequences.

Hard to understand how you got this late in life and can still be so ignorant.

It’s a cancer mentality you see amongst all progressives and way too many dems.

 

[larsIU]

It’s a cancer mentality you see amongst all progressives and way too many dems.

We can either means test or lift the cap. Or a mixture. Pick your poison.

The point i'm trying to get at is that we're at the beginning of this problem. It's only going to get worse. What are we going to do about it. Social Security reform is only one answer.

 

[mcmurtry66]

We can either means test or lift the cap. Or a mixture. Pick your poison.

The point i'm trying to get at is that we're at the beginning of this problem. It's only going to get worse. What are we going to do about it. Social Security reform is only one answer.

Raise the cap and age is the simplest solution

 

[larsIU]

Raise the cap and age is the simplest solution

Is raising the cap "milking the rich" though. I don't want to offend any sensibilities.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Is raising the cap "milking the rich" though. I don't want to offend any sensibilities.

It has a disproportionate impact but when things are done across the board it’s more palatable.

Perception matters. There’s also I trust a greater appetite to pay and increase tax liability when businesses and people feel there’s a concomitant effort to reduce costs and increase accountability and outcomes.

The thread about have you ever had to fire someone misses the mark tho fascinating to read. It ignores the employer. Of course if you put a name and a face to a discharge one will have sympathy but when it’s the generic fed gov people want to raise their chain saws and say F yeah! Bc we don’t feel like they provide a good service for what we pay. And those of us outside of gov don’t really like the perceived culture of entitlement that the 50 year old laying asphalt in the dead of summer in ocala fla doesn’t have.

When you don’t like something you want it gone. Perfect example I would give up watching all sports for Burger King to go out of business Will I feel badly for their employees. Sure. But they can get on somewhere else. That’s life. Would I accept a new ceo and everyone in marketing for Burger King fired and a new team. Okay fine. I’ll take that. That’s what many feel doge is trying to do

And ps BK no one has responded to my emails. They’re like dealing with the gov. Email Jim the owner of this board. He’ll email back in minutes. How can we make this experience better. How can we improve. That makes you want to help

 

[larsIU]

Bc we don’t feel like they provide a good service for what we pay.

Except that when the cutting starts Republicans get screamed at in their own districts. I think the federal government has a perception problem. It is, quite literally, the greatest administrative body ever created by mankind. We should be proud of it. And by that I mean we shouldn’t abuse it by overspending or underfunding it. We should treat it with the care it deserves. Does it need to be smaller? In some areas very much yes. In other areas no. Everything can’t be a nail.

Would I accept a new ceo and everyone in marketing for Burger King fired and a new team.

Spoiler

 

[mcmurtry66]

Except that when the cutting starts Republicans get screamed at in their own districts. I think the federal government has a perception problem. It is, quite literally, the greatest administrative body slevee created by mankind. We should be proud of it. And by that I mean we should abuse it by overspending or underfunding it. We should treat it with the care it deserves. Does it need to be smaller? In some areas very much yes. In other areas no. Everything can’t be a nail.

Spoiler

I disagree. I don’t think our fed gov works. We have 35 trillion in debt. 35 million in poverty. Ignoring legal blockades I’d love to tear it down to the studs and start over. It’s way too big. Way too expensive. And way too nonresponsive and unwieldy. I would like to tear it all down and reimagine it under sope’s vision of a much smaller fed gov with regional governments that would be better tuned into and responsive to the areas they serve. I also think the downside to having four year elections is that it makes real change impossible.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

We need a real long term solution. One that involves ownership and use of the stock markets

That’s assuming markets continue to perform as they have in the past.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Don't forget that I had money taken from every paycheck and given to the government. Until I receive that money back, and my lost earnings on that money, I think I deserve every penny.

Maybe Fauci can fund another ChiCom research effort that will kill off a few more million old folks? Save you youngsters some tax increases?

We’re on the same page. Anyone been to Wuhan recently?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

That’s assuming markets continue to perform as they have in the past.

That is the problem. Investing makes sense as an option, but investments carry risk. There is no guarantee any market will always increase. If we think retirement is a problem now, imagine after 10 years of market contraction.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

We're dying as fast as we can... Some of us are just tougher to kill than others... Sorry...

That’s not entirely true though. Lars point that was not addressed was the insatiable spending that has been going on for decades to prolong life and quality of life among the elderly.

It should have been focused more on kids and young people, for moral and financial reasons.

People don’t need to live to 100.

 

[ribbont]

That’s assuming markets continue to perform as they have in the past.

I'm confident they can outperform treasuries over the next 100 years.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

That is the problem. Investing makes sense as an option, but investments carry risk. There is no guarantee any market will always increase. If we think retirement is a problem now, imagine after 10 years of market contraction.

Hopefully we don’t have that, but that’s precisely the point. Nobody can guarantee future performance, which definitely looks more challenging in the long-term, given demographics and other dynamics.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

lifting the cap and taxing benefits as regular income

Isn't this just a multi step process to simply lower benefits? Which would also add to needed resources in the fed gov (i.e. IRS). Or am I totally over simplifying this?

 

[larsIU]

I disagree. I don’t think our fed gov works. We have 35 trillion in debt. 35 million in poverty. Ignoring legal blockades I’d love to tear it down to the studs and start over. It’s way too big. Way too expensive. And way too nonresponsive and unwieldy. I would like to tear it all down and reimagine it under sope’s vision of a much smaller fed gov with regional governments that would be better tuned into and responsive to the areas they serve. I also think the downside to having four year elections is that it makes real change impossible.

Oh I think we do agree at least regarding who’s at fault. Which is Congress, mostly. But the federal government, the administrative state as we deride it, is not Congress.

We should vote to make our administrative state smaller and focused on much much larger initiatives. If that makes sense. I agree re: Sopes idea. If we could ever figure it out. Block grant and let the regionals decide. But things like defense, healthcare payments, retirement payments, should be handled at a federal level. Again, this thread is about the biggest crisis we’ll ever face, namely living too damn long.

 

[hookyIU1990]

Perfect example I would give up watching all sports for Burger King to go out of business Will I feel badly for their employees. Sure. But they can get on somewhere else. That’s life. Would I accept a new ceo and everyone in marketing for Burger King fired and a new team. Okay fine. I’ll take that.

Whatever stops the commercials with those ****ing jingles sung by a dude who spent his singing lesson money on hostess fruit pies and non filtered cigarettes has my full support.

That’s not entirely true though. Lars point that was not addressed was the insatiable spending that has been going on for decades to prolong life and quality of life among the elderly.

It should have been focused more on kids and young people, for moral and financial reasons.

People don’t need to live to 100.

People should strive to live to a ripe old age. 70 years of eating shit (including what the .gov has brainwashed us with), smoking like a chimney, and sitting in front of the TV is our problem with long term care.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Whatever stops the commercials with those ****ing jingles sung by a dude who spent his singing lesson money on hostess fruit pies and non filtered cigarettes has my full support.



People should strive to live to a ripe old age. 70 years of eating shit (including what the .gov has brainwashed us with), smoking like a chimney, and sitting in front of the TV is our problem with long term care.

It’s ruining my television experience and no one responds to emails. From the president of the company on down.

 

[ribbont]

Hopefully we don’t have that, but that’s precisely the point. Nobody can guarantee future performance, which definitely looks more challenging in the long-term, given demographics and other dynamics.

No, there are no guarantees, but we have over 100 years of evidence.

We also have no guarantees the SS system is sustainable in its original, previously amended, or current form. We will just continue to band-aid long enough for the politicians to retire. Keep kicking the can.

But if we start today, allowing new workers to shift part of their SS tax withholding into a market based, ownership retirement account, they will have 40-50 years of growth opportunity.

 

[IUCrazy2]

No, there are no guarantees, but we have over 100 years of evidence.

We also have no guarantees the SS system is sustainable in its original, previously amended, or current form. We will just continue to band-aid long enough for the politicians to retire. Keep kicking the can.

But if we start today, allowing new workers to shift part of their SS tax withholding into a market based, ownership retirement account, they will have 40-50 years of growth opportunity.

You can't do that without impacting current benefits or adjusting taxes collected.

 

[td75]

A large problem among Americans is their financial ignorance. This country needs to actually teach the basics of financial literacy starting in 8th grade onward.

Graduating from high school and not knowing anything about investing, saving money, risk management, equities, bonds, gold, silver, etc., creates generations of people who absolutely will not be prepared to retire. They don't even know that these investment vehicles exist!!

Maybe the government really doesn't want an educated society when it comes to finances?? Speaking from my own experience, I've got an Inherited IRA that I luckily stretched before they changed the laws, a Roth IRA and a rental property. I'm a self employed house painter, there's no golden parachute for me. I educated myself on finance, it wasn't taught to me at a very highly thought of Catholic high school in Southern Indiana and not at Ball State. Weird...

 

[mcmurtry66]

A large problem among Americans is their financial ignorance. This country needs to actually teach the basics of financial literacy starting in 8th grade onward.

Graduating from high school and not knowing anything about investing, saving money, risk management, equities, bonds, gold, silver, etc., creates generations of people who absolutely will not be prepared to retire. They don't even know that these investment vehicles exist!!

Maybe the government really doesn't want an educated society when it comes to finances?? Speaking from my own experience, I've got an Inherited IRA that I luckily stretched before they changed the laws, a Roth IRA and a rental property. I'm a self employed house painter, there's no golden parachute for me. I educated myself on finance, it wasn't taught to me at a very highly thought of Catholic high school in Southern Indiana and not at Ball State. Weird...

Not weird at all. @snarlcakes reach out to him before our next annual. Thank you

 

[ribbont]

You can't do that without impacting current benefits or adjusting taxes collected.

I've already addressed that in a previous post by stating I would not be opposed to a) lifting the cap, and/or b) temporarily raising taxes. I think we can have a balance of tax increases that can be phased out over time as the market based acct balances grow. I also suggested a management expense on the market based acct, like 50-100 basis points, that flows directly into SS.

Obviously I don't know all the numbers, but I'd like to see us move in that general direction.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

That is the problem. Investing makes sense as an option, but investments carry risk. There is no guarantee any market will always increase. If we think retirement is a problem now, imagine after 10 years of market contraction.

If you started paying in to a market based SS program when you were 18 or 22, a decade long contraction that leads right up to your eligibility age still puts you on much firmer financial footing than the current set up.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

A large problem among Americans is their financial ignorance. This country needs to actually teach the basics of financial literacy starting in 8th grade onward.

Graduating from high school and not knowing anything about investing, saving money, risk management, equities, bonds, gold, silver, etc., creates generations of people who absolutely will not be prepared to retire. They don't even know that these investment vehicles exist!!

Maybe the government really doesn't want an educated society when it comes to finances?? Speaking from my own experience, I've got an Inherited IRA that I luckily stretched before they changed the laws, a Roth IRA and a rental property. I'm a self employed house painter, there's no golden parachute for me. I educated myself on finance, it wasn't taught to me at a very highly thought of Catholic high school in Southern Indiana and not at Ball State. Weird...

A Dave Ramsey course in every school, starting very early!

 

[snarlcakes]

It has a disproportionate impact but when things are done across the board it’s more palatable.

Perception matters. There’s also I trust a greater appetite to pay and increase tax liability when businesses and people feel there’s a concomitant effort to reduce costs and increase accountability and outcomes.

The thread about have you ever had to fire someone misses the mark tho fascinating to read. It ignores the employer. Of course if you put a name and a face to a discharge one will have sympathy but when it’s the generic fed gov people want to raise their chain saws and say F yeah! Bc we don’t feel like they provide a good service for what we pay. And those of us outside of gov don’t really like the perceived culture of entitlement that the 50 year old laying asphalt in the dead of summer in ocala fla doesn’t have.

When you don’t like something you want it gone. Perfect example I would give up watching all sports for Burger King to go out of business Will I feel badly for their employees. Sure. But they can get on somewhere else. That’s life. Would I accept a new ceo and everyone in marketing for Burger King fired and a new team. Okay fine. I’ll take that. That’s what many feel doge is trying to do

And ps BK no one has responded to my emails. They’re like dealing with the gov. Email Jim the owner of this board. He’ll email back in minutes. How can we make this experience better. How can we improve. That makes you want to help

Listening and love, Murt. Two of my greatest strengths. Now, tell me more about this BK issue?

 

[BCCHoosier]

A Dave Ramsey course in every school, starting very early!

Dave is good with regards to paying down debt. His investment advice not so much.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Listening and love, Murt. Two of my greatest strengths. Now, tell me more about this BK issue?

I hate the song. And the commercials ruin every single thing I watch on discovery, many sporting events, and even bravo. They play nonstop and are like nails on a chalkboard

 

[larsIU]

I hate the song. And the commercials ruin every single thing I watch on discovery, many sporting events, and even bravo. They play nonstop and are like nails on a chalkboard

For me it’s the constant Wegovy/jardiance commercials. Also that they color block the commercials (sets, costumes) to match the branding of the pharmaceutical product.

Because we’re being sold to. Feels good.

I miss the JG Wentworth (call 877-CASHNOW!!) annuity liquidation commercials.

 

[hookyIU1990]

For me it’s the constant Wegovy/jardiance commercials. Also that they color block the commercials (sets, costumes) to match the branding of the pharmaceutical product.

Because we’re being sold to. Feels good.

I miss the JG Wentworth (call 877-CASHNOW!!) annuity liquidation commercials.

Damn, now I've got that jingle in my head.

Tired of the fatty dances are you? All those pharma commercials in general are annoying AF.