What will we do about the looming retirement crisis?

[larsIU]

Are the ‘Peak Boomers’ Financially Ready to Retire?

Generation’s last, largest wave faces struggle: study

www.aarp.org

According to this (and it’s the same data over multiple articles) over half of people retiring over the next several years will have less than 250k in retirement savings and will rely largely on Social Security.

I saw another statistic which I can’t locate saying 1/2 of people aged 55-66 have almost nothing saved.

If this is all true how the hell do you reform SS? Means testing? So the people that worked and saved now have to give it up because of those who didn’t. Seems like a nonstarter after the college debt brouhaha during Bidens term.

Based on what I see I’m not sure how SS doesn’t expand over the next two decades.

I think this is a generational problem and our politics won’t allow us to even consider how to fix it. Then again I think that about most of our larger problems.

When will we normalize multi generational living situations? Are we too selfish and self absorbed at this point?

Thoughts?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Are the ‘Peak Boomers’ Financially Ready to Retire?

Generation’s last, largest wave faces struggle: study

www.aarp.org

According to this (and it’s the same data over multiple articles) over half of people retiring over the next several years will have less than 250k in retirement savings and will rely largely on Social Security.

I saw another statistic which I can’t locate saying 1/2 of people aged 55-66 have almost nothing saved.

If this is all true how the hell do you reform SS? Means testing? So the people that worked and saved now have to give it up because of those who didn’t. Seems like a nonstarter after the college debt brouhaha during Bidens term.

Based on what I see I’m not sure how SS doesn’t expand over the next two decades.

I think this is a generational problem and our politics won’t allow us to even consider how to fix it. Then again I think that about most of our larger problems.

When will we normalize multi generational living situations? Are we too selfish and self absorbed at this point?

Thoughts?

Lift caps and push back eligibility. That shit was predicated on life tables ages ago. I’m 53. I can’t imagine retiring. I’d be bored out of my mind. I know so many people in their mid 70s full steam ahead working

The Florida Classic has an O75 division FFS

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Lift caps and push back eligibility. That shit was predicated on life tables ages ago. I’m 53. I can’t imagine retiring. I’d be bored out of my mind. I know so many people in their mid 70s full steam ahead working

The Florida Classic has an O75 division FFS

You're a lawyer.

Tell the factory worker that works in 100+ degree temps in the summer or the delivery guy that's body is beat up after years of service that he has to work longer because we need to pay for all these tax cuts.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Are the ‘Peak Boomers’ Financially Ready to Retire?

Generation’s last, largest wave faces struggle: study

www.aarp.org

According to this (and it’s the same data over multiple articles) over half of people retiring over the next several years will have less than 250k in retirement savings and will rely largely on Social Security.

I saw another statistic which I can’t locate saying 1/2 of people aged 55-66 have almost nothing saved.

If this is all true how the hell do you reform SS? Means testing? So the people that worked and saved now have to give it up because of those who didn’t. Seems like a nonstarter after the college debt brouhaha during Bidens term.

Based on what I see I’m not sure how SS doesn’t expand over the next two decades.

I think this is a generational problem and our politics won’t allow us to even consider how to fix it. Then again I think that about most of our larger problems.

When will we normalize multi generational living situations? Are we too selfish and self absorbed at this point?

Thoughts?

My first thought is that it would be nice if Doc and Marty could let us borrow their DeLorean so somebody could go back to 1935 and show the designers of this system its glaring flaws and fate.

Even if we could just go back to 2005, we’d be in better shape today.

My guess is that our pols will choose the path of least resistance and rely on the Fed to continue diluting the dollar as the primary means of “affording” scheduled benefits and curbing the pain felt by pensioners by distributing it evenly to all those who utilize the USD.

They may also do some less politically perilous things like means testing, lifting the cap on OASDI taxes, and raising the retirement age again. But that isn’t going to be sufficient.

Every day they’ve delayed corrective action has added to the severity of the actions that must eventually be taken to keep it solvent. And we’ve known this was coming for at least 25 years.

 

[mcmurtry66]

You're a lawyer.

Tell the factory worker that works in 100+ degree temps in the summer or the delivery guy that's body is beat up after years of service that he has to work longer because we need to pay for all these tax cuts.

One of the 70 plus guys still working owns a landscaping biz. In the Stl summer heat. Hits the gym at 4 after work every day. But your point is taken

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

You're a lawyer.

Tell the factory worker that works in 100+ degree temps in the summer or the delivery guy that's body is beat up after years of service that he has to work longer because we need to pay for all these tax cuts.

You must not have paid any attention to what I’ve shown here regarding tax revenues.

 

[larsIU]

My first thought is that it would be nice if Doc and Marty could let us borrow their DeLorean so somebody could go back to 1935 and show the designers of this system its glaring flaws and fate.

Even if we could just go back to 2005, we’d be in better shape today.

My guess is that our pols will choose the path of least resistance and rely on the Fed to continue diluting the dollar as the primary means of “affording” scheduled benefits and curbing the pain felt by pensioners by distributing it evenly to all those who utilize the USD.

They may also do some less politically perilous things like means testing, lifting the cap on OASDI taxes, and raising the retirement age again. But that isn’t going to be sufficient.

Every day they’ve delayed corrective action has added to the severity of the actions that must eventually be taken to keep it solvent. And we’ve known this was coming for at least 25 years.

Agreed. I think we’re long past any “good” solutions and have entered the time period where two choices remain, the foolish (as you note re: the Fed) or the tragic.

Old people are killing this country financially. And everything we do relative to medical research involves people living longer than they could before.

Additionally we’re introducing efficiency/productivity transforming technologies like AI which will shrink the workforce while we’re raising retirement ages. Now young people can’t get into the market or have to do it at a substantially reduced income from the forebears.

I literally can’t conceive an approach which doesn’t radically transform our way of life and government. We tend not to think of the ramifications of this progress and what it means for humanity. At some point we just don’t need all these damn people around because there’s no work for them to do.

Will we see a population decline begin in our lifetimes? The rate of increase is slowing but will it go negative in the next 20 years or so?

 

[hookyIU1990]

I'm 57 and have done relatively well for myself. I'm assuming that I'll never see a dime of SS and that's how I'm planning my retirement. Maybe I'll see a partial payout every month if I'm lucky. My son will turn 30 this year. No way he'll see a dime from SS, despite paying in.

Crazed mentioned the time machine to show them their mistakes back in 35. I'm not so sure they didn't assume at some point it would fall down.

 

[Univee2]

Are the ‘Peak Boomers’ Financially Ready to Retire?

Generation’s last, largest wave faces struggle: study

www.aarp.org

According to this (and it’s the same data over multiple articles) over half of people retiring over the next several years will have less than 250k in retirement savings and will rely largely on Social Security.

I saw another statistic which I can’t locate saying 1/2 of people aged 55-66 have almost nothing saved.

If this is all true how the hell do you reform SS? Means testing? So the people that worked and saved now have to give it up because of those who didn’t. Seems like a nonstarter after the college debt brouhaha during Bidens term.

Based on what I see I’m not sure how SS doesn’t expand over the next two decades.

I think this is a generational problem and our politics won’t allow us to even consider how to fix it. Then again I think that about most of our larger problems.

When will we normalize multi generational living situations? Are we too selfish and self absorbed at this point?

Thoughts?

I could go on the speaking circuit. Save, invest, 401ks. I don’t know how people can ever survive on just SS. We’re at the maximum and, while it’s nice to have, the bulk of what we have monthly is out of the accounts we’ve set up over the years. But if SS for somebody is, say, half of ours, I don’t know how someone could live.

So, now we go to look at two houses today, hoping we can time it right, if one of these is the one, to close on the golf cottage and the new house on the same day in order to avoid a $10,000 membership fee transfer. Otherwise, we’ll be owners of three houses and I have no desire to go through that. Could rent the cottage, I suppose. But, the point is we couldn’t do that if we hadn’t put plans in place several decades ago.

Rod Stewart had it right - I wish I knew then what I know now.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Lift caps and push back eligibility. That shit was predicated on life tables ages ago. I’m 53. I can’t imagine retiring. I’d be bored out of my mind. I know so many people in their mid 70s full steam ahead working

The Florida Classic has an O75 division FFS

The closer I get to retirement the more I know about this, seek psychiatric help. My friends that are retired are busier now than ever. Two of them miss our weekly lunch far more now than when they worked. One has woodworking projects he is always doing, the other travels all the time.

I am looking up volunteer opportunities, then will fill days around it. I think I will be pretty busy, but busy doing what I want and not what the man wants.

 

[mcmurtry66]

The closer I get to retirement the more I know about this, seek psychiatric help. My friends that are retired are busier now than ever. Two of them miss our weekly lunch far more now than when they worked. One has woodworking projects he is always doing, the other travels all the time.

I am looking up volunteer opportunities, then will fill days around it. I think I will be pretty busy, but busy doing what I want and not what the man wants.

That’s the difference. I haven’t worked for the man in 20 years

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Will we see a population decline begin in our lifetimes? The rate of increase is slowing but will it go negative in the next 20 years or so?

Another one of the factors driving this is generational disparity. Not only are people living longer (though life expectancy in the US recently took a turn down), there are simply more old people than young people.

I’ve thought before that, if public and/or elite sentiment on abortion was ever going to change much, it would have to do with population considerations.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I could go on the speaking circuit. Save, invest, 401ks. I don’t know how people can ever survive on just SS. We’re at the maximum and, while it’s nice to have, the bulk of what we have monthly is out of the accounts we’ve set up over the years. But if SS for somebody is, say, half of ours, I don’t know how someone could live.

So, now we go to look at two houses today, hoping we can time it right, if one of these is the one, to close on the golf cottage and the new house on the same day in order to avoid a $10,000 membership fee transfer. Otherwise, we’ll be owners of three houses and I have no desire to go through that. Could rent the cottage, I suppose. But, the point is we couldn’t do that if we hadn’t put plans in place several decades ago.

Rod Stewart had it right - I wish I knew then what I know now.

While I’ve had qualms about compulsory retirement savings, I’ve come around to thinking they’re probably necessary. I have the perspective of administering both a voluntary 401k and a compulsory (union) defined contribution pension.

Participants in the latter are, without fail, in far better financial shape at retirement. Given the choice, many people want more today at the expense of tomorrow.

This is one of the key insights that led me to believe that Social Security should at least offer some method of personal investment. The taxes are being levied either way. And this would get more people into accumulating some savings and having it invested at higher rates of return over a ~45 year working career.

 

[UncleMark]

I'm 57 and have done relatively well for myself. I'm assuming that I'll never see a dime of SS and that's how I'm planning my retirement. Maybe I'll see a partial payout every month if I'm lucky. My son will turn 30 this year. No way he'll see a dime from SS, despite paying in.

People have been saying that for decades. I heard it from my dad when I was a teenager.

For SS, the fix is simple -- lift the cap. That buys a couple decades, enough for us Boomers to die off.

 

[hookyIU1990]

People have been saying that for decades. I heard it from my dad when I was a teenager.

For SS, the fix is simple -- lift the cap. That buys a couple decades, enough for us Boomers to die off.

If not for the bailing wire and duct tape applied during the Reagan years, your dad could have been right. Reform needs to include a private investment option, IMO.

Medicare is the one I'm more concerned with.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Are the ‘Peak Boomers’ Financially Ready to Retire?

Generation’s last, largest wave faces struggle: study

www.aarp.org

According to this (and it’s the same data over multiple articles) over half of people retiring over the next several years will have less than 250k in retirement savings and will rely largely on Social Security.

I saw another statistic which I can’t locate saying 1/2 of people aged 55-66 have almost nothing saved.

If this is all true how the hell do you reform SS? Means testing? So the people that worked and saved now have to give it up because of those who didn’t. Seems like a nonstarter after the college debt brouhaha during Bidens term.

Based on what I see I’m not sure how SS doesn’t expand over the next two decades.

I think this is a generational problem and our politics won’t allow us to even consider how to fix it. Then again I think that about most of our larger problems.

When will we normalize multi generational living situations? Are we too selfish and self absorbed at this point?

Thoughts?

Tunnel to Towers, (and others) have the right idea. Lower the cost of being alive in various ways. One way is housing like this.

The Tunnel to Towers Foundation Breaks Ground on Denver Veterans Village - Tunnel to Towers Foundation

Ceremony took place on November 7 at 10:00 AM Just days before Veterans Day, the Tunnel to Towers Foundation, a non-profit that supports America’s first responders, Gold Star families, and military […]

t2t.org

Another Denver example is an old 30 story office that was once a prestigious office address, which had been vacant for years, has been repurposed into low-cost housing. There are many good buildings with very low occupancy in almost every city.

Once we stop supporting migrants we will at least have some funds available for support. Cutting outrageous housing costs will help a lot.

 

[Cortez88]

I’m too lazy to look it up, but why did the option of moving an individuals SS to an owned investment account die and never return?

Gov workers in Indiana have had a vesting, owned public like 401k option for a long time. I didn’t want to go the pension route for a number of reasons, one being I didn’t plan on being around long enough to vest. But I would have chosen the 401k like plan regardless. Im also a saver by nature though.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

People have been saying that for decades. I heard it from my dad when I was a teenager.

For SS, the fix is simple -- lift the cap. That buys a couple decades, enough for us Boomers to die off.

There’s a problem with that solution: benefits are coupled with taxes.

So the only way this improves its finances is to decouple them such that benefits max out, but taxes don’t. And I’m not sure proponents of this move have fully thought through the ramifications of this.

 

[UncleMark]

If not for the bailing wire and duct tape applied during the Reagan years, your dad could have been right. Reform needs to include a private investment option, IMO.

Medicare is the one I'm more concerned with.

The reforms were a Carter initiative, IIRC, but yes, they went into effect under Reagan. And they bought the system time. A simple change -- lifting the cap -- will do the same.

I've advocated for an investment scheme as well, on top of basic SS. I'd make in mandatory and untouchable until retirement age.

Medicare is rough, I'll grant you. The solution in my mind is something akin to a Medicare For All public option that individuals and employers alike could chose.

 

[UncleMark]

There’s a problem with that solution: benefits are coupled with taxes.

So the only way this improves its finances is to decouple them such that benefits max out, but taxes don’t. And I’m not sure proponents of this move have fully thought through the ramifications of this.

Yes, decouple at the top -- maximum benefits capped no matter how much you put in. The coupling is a facade anyway. I'd also tax SS benefits as normal 1040 income. Might have to adjust the standard deduction to account for the bottom end people.

 

[snarlcakes]

You must not have paid any attention to what I’ve shown here regarding tax revenues.

It doesn’t matter what you show. People don’t care. They believe what they want to believe. Sorry, but that’s the reality of the situation.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

While I’ve had qualms about compulsory retirement savings, I’ve come around to thinking they’re probably necessary. I have the perspective of administering both a voluntary 401k and a compulsory (union) defined contribution pension.

Participants in the latter are, without fail, in far better financial shape at retirement. Given the choice, many people want more today at the expense of tomorrow.

This is one of the key insights that led me to believe that Social Security should at least offer some method of personal investment. The taxes are being levied either way. And this would get more people into accumulating some savings and having it invested at higher rates of return over a ~45 year working career.

The book Nudged spoke about Sweden's system where 2.5% can be invested in approved funds. I like the idea.

Of course a fund snuck in that was a scam. The book used it to illustrate how default selections need to be safe. The papers found out about the scam fund and ran stories, the government took them to court, and in that time virtually no one left the fund. Most people set it and forget it which has its own problems.

But taking a percentage and allowing investment in approved funds makes sense to me

 

[IUCrazy2]

Tunnel to Towers, (and others) have the right idea. Lower the cost of being alive in various ways. One way is housing like this.

The Tunnel to Towers Foundation Breaks Ground on Denver Veterans Village - Tunnel to Towers Foundation

Ceremony took place on November 7 at 10:00 AM Just days before Veterans Day, the Tunnel to Towers Foundation, a non-profit that supports America’s first responders, Gold Star families, and military […]

t2t.org

Another Denver example is an old 30 story office that was once a prestigious office address, which had been vacant for years, has been repurposed into low-cost housing. There are many good buildings with very low occupancy in almost every city.

Once we stop supporting migrants we will at least have some funds available for support. Cutting outrageous housing costs will help a lot.

How do you keep those from turning into Cabrini Green though?

 

[snarlcakes]

People have been saying that for decades. I heard it from my dad when I was a teenager.

For SS, the fix is simple -- lift the cap. That buys a couple decades, enough for us Boomers to die off.

@JamieDimonsBalls these damn Boomers. It’s never enough.

 

[snarlcakes]

I'm 57 and have done relatively well for myself. I'm assuming that I'll never see a dime of SS and that's how I'm planning my retirement. Maybe I'll see a partial payout every month if I'm lucky. My son will turn 30 this year. No way he'll see a dime from SS, despite paying in.

Crazed mentioned the time machine to show them their mistakes back in 35. I'm not so sure they didn't assume at some point it would fall down.

Hopefully, you’ve raised your son right and he’s a Bitcoiner.

 

[UncleMark]

So, now we go to look at two houses today, hoping we can time it right, if one of these is the one, to close on the golf cottage and the new house on the same day in order to avoid a $10,000 membership fee transfer. Otherwise, we’ll be owners of three houses and I have no desire to go through that. Could rent the cottage, I suppose. But, the point is we couldn’t do that if we hadn’t put plans in place several decades ago.

Congratulations. You've done very very well. Not trying to be a dick, but the situation you describe above makes it hard for anyone to be concerned with how SS benefit reforms might effect your life. You should of course get what you have coming, but if it's not "fair" or not what you think it should be, I'm not going to have much sympathy.

 

[larsIU]

The book Nudged spoke about Sweden's system where 2.5% can be invested in approved funds. I like the idea.

Of course a fund snuck in that was a scam. The book used it to illustrate how default selections need to be safe. The papers found out about the scam fund and ran stories, the government took them to court, and in that time virtually no one left the fund. Most people set it and forget it which has its own problems.

But taking a percentage and allowing investment in approved funds makes sense to me

Nudge was good.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

How do you keep those from turning into Cabrini Green though?

Sound responsible management. The key for any successful multi-unit housing facility.

 

[hookyIU1990]

I’m too lazy to look it up, but why did the option of moving an individuals SS to an owned investment account die and never return?

Gov workers in Indiana have had a vesting, owned public like 401k option for a long time. I didn’t want to go the pension route for a number of reasons, one being I didn’t plan on being around long enough to vest. But I would have chosen the 401k like plan regardless. Im also a saver by nature though.

I'd have to gi back and look it up too, but the attempt that I remember was during one of the GWB administrations. It was a small fraction that was proposed as being eligible to divert to a private option and people lost their minds. It was demagogued without mercy.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

You're a lawyer.

Tell the factory worker that works in 100+ degree temps in the summer or the delivery guy that's body is beat up after years of service that he has to work longer because we need to pay for all these tax cuts.

How about the millions of illegals granted full access to that worker's earned retirement dollar?
When were the payroll deductions for SS and Medicare reduced? What tax cuts?
You're talking out of your ass.

 

[toastedbread]

Another Denver example is an old 30 story office that was once a prestigious office address, which had been vacant for years, has been repurposed into low-cost housing. There are many good buildings with very low occupancy in almost every city.

This is a lot easier said then done. The cost to retrofit can be enormous and the economics rarely pencil.

 

[toastedbread]

Another one of the factors driving this is generational disparity. Not only are people living longer (though life expectancy in the US recently took a turn down), there are simply more old people than young people.

I’ve thought before that, if public and/or elite sentiment on abortion was ever going to change much, it would have to do with population considerations.

Increasing population won't help if there are no jobs due to robots/automation.

The only thing that can be done is to tax the rentiers.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

How about the millions of illegals granted full access to that worker's earned retirement dollar?
When were the payroll deductions for SS and Medicare reduced? What tax cuts?
You're talking out of your ass.

So your Russia site isn't up to date on what the GOP has reportedly proposed in terms of tax cuts.

I'm shocked.

 

[Cortez88]

Nudge was good.

What about if a certain % of SS contributions went into an individual’s investment account? Over 60 is 5%. Over 50 is 10%, etc. Because of the nature of SS, younger folks think of it differently than older folks. Hell, I’m 50 and I feel like my generation doesn’t even have an expectation that we will get anything from SS.

 

[UncleMark]

I'd have to gi back and look it up too, but the attempt that I remember was during one of the GWB administrations. It was a small fraction that was proposed as being eligible to divert to a private option and people lost their minds. It was demagogued without mercy.

The problem was the diversion of contributions away from SS and into the private funds, which would have weakened the system overall. If it had been offered as an option -- or even made mandatory -- on top of the baseline SS, that would have been a whole different matter. Think of it as a public option 401K.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

So your Russia site isn't up to date on what the GOP has reportedly proposed in terms of tax cuts.

I'm shocked.

What Russa site would that be?

I'll wait.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

So your Russia site isn't up to date on what the GOP has reportedly proposed in terms of tax cuts.

I'm shocked.

Oral flatulence...

 

[toastedbread]

Are the ‘Peak Boomers’ Financially Ready to Retire?

Generation’s last, largest wave faces struggle: study

www.aarp.org

According to this (and it’s the same data over multiple articles) over half of people retiring over the next several years will have less than 250k in retirement savings and will rely largely on Social Security.

I saw another statistic which I can’t locate saying 1/2 of people aged 55-66 have almost nothing saved.

If this is all true how the hell do you reform SS? Means testing? So the people that worked and saved now have to give it up because of those who didn’t. Seems like a nonstarter after the college debt brouhaha during Bidens term.

Based on what I see I’m not sure how SS doesn’t expand over the next two decades.

I think this is a generational problem and our politics won’t allow us to even consider how to fix it. Then again I think that about most of our larger problems.

When will we normalize multi generational living situations? Are we too selfish and self absorbed at this point?

Thoughts?

Without responding to everyone in the thread, raise the retirement age and means tests. Someone mentions physical labor... You could have different ages depending on job categories. I think China does that.

I hate when people say they "paid for" Social Security. Actually it's a ponzi scheme and depending on their age they did not pay enough and may have taken a lot more than they "paid for". I don't know where id set the cap, but someone with $10M in assets probably doesn't need a SS check. This country is dead broke and everyone needs to sacrifice a little. Since Bill Clinton it's borrow from future generations to please the current ones.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

I’m too lazy to look it up, but why did the option of moving an individuals SS to an owned investment account die and never return?

Gov workers in Indiana have had a vesting, owned public like 401k option for a long time. I didn’t want to go the pension route for a number of reasons, one being I didn’t plan on being around long enough to vest. But I would have chosen the 401k like plan regardless. Im also a saver by nature though.

According to the late Dem Senator Moynihan, it failed because liberals fear the political ramifications of low income people having even a minimal amount of personal wealth.

No, I’m not kidding.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

This is a lot easier said then done. The cost to retrofit can be enormous and the economics rarely pencil.

Well. One is done and another is well under way. I agree,, though, that not all such buildings would be suitable for re-purpose.