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What the hell?

many problems other than the big one of using the app

Messages were set to autodelete and thus skirt laws on record-keeping

If anything was classified, each participate would need to be in a SCIF

Now we also seem to have some lying going on

Only the best people!
 
Of course it was a mistake discussing on the app. It's not authorized for classified or CCI. Back in your day it would have been inappropriate to have the discussion using smoke signals. OK, you're not quite that old, it would have been inappropriate to discuss via open radio channels.
We used to learn a shit-ton from listening to Russkies and East Germans on open channels.

The best use of secure comms were the native American code talkers in WWII.
 
I don't think it was a plant, or an intentional accident, or double smokescreen, or whatever.

That said, if authentic, how/why was Goldberg added? Who created the group? Was Goldberg added instead of a similar name (Gold-someone) that auto-filled (Jesus, imagine that :D ), OR, was this a case of the group creator using a databased "name" that wasn't actually the accurate recipient?

Who wasn't on the list that was intended? And if that person didn't make the list, how/why was his name/number/handle/whatever replaced with Goldberg? How the hell did Goldberg even get into the "system"? Who had this Goldberg guy listed in the Rolodex as a "trusted US Official", and why?

Ya, I agree the wrong name probably populated. Hope we find out who the intended invitee was and why they were apparently not missed by the other participants.

Could have been Jeff Goldblum. He’s a scientist, among many other professions, but more into theory. Mas will hate that if true.
 
I don't think it was a plant, or an intentional accident, or double smokescreen, or whatever.

That said, if authentic, how/why was Goldberg added? Who created the group? Was Goldberg added instead of a similar name (Gold-someone) that auto-filled (Jesus, imagine that :D ), OR, was this a case of the group creator using a databased "name" that wasn't actually the accurate recipient?

Who wasn't on the list that was intended? And if that person didn't make the list, how/why was his name/number/handle/whatever replaced with Goldberg? How the hell did Goldberg even get into the "system"? Who had this Goldberg guy listed in the Rolodex as a "trusted US Official", and why?
Your contacts migrate to that app (if you want it). The likely explainer is that it was a boo boo by Waltz. I mean I could not resist the temptation of offering up some ridiculous comment like "I don't think we should let POTUS know. Let's just attack right now. Screw this waiting around shit"
 
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If they are having these kinds of discussions on their personal cell phones that is the real scandal. I would then assume the Russians and Chinese governments have knowledge of all varieties of top secret information and resignations would be warranted.
At least use "code".

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One of the greatest characters ever created. The reporters in the bookshelves of his office

Wow those law books

Ah yes. Not only do they make decorative office pieces but there’s useful tidbits of information in some of them

I can’t remember exactly what he said. Pure genius



"And look at him, he's wearing a belt. That's Hollywood for ya".
 
Your contacts migrate to that app (if you want it). The likely explainer is that it was a boo boo by Waltz. I mean I could not resist the temptation of offering up some ridiculous comment like "I don't think we should let POTUS know. Let's just attack right now. Screw this waiting around shit"
Shoulda just replied with this...

 
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Ain't nobody breaking the navajo chitter chatter. Code Talker was a phenomenal book: https://a.co/d/4vbkoMf
And other tribes used their own language in the military. These guys and Japanese Americans were legendary heros. Basically shit on by America, they proved their loyalty and more.

The Brits were the best at breaking code. Blechley Park was the unsung heros of WWII.
 
WTF are you talking about?

Destroying blackberries and using bleachbit isn't interfering with the investigation?

Are you f'ing serious?
The FBI got every single email that passed through her server. This has been established over and over. It's not in doubt, except by you, I've never understood why you deny the known facts. Have you ever bothered to read Comey's statement? It's all addressed after a months long investigation. It very much sounded like he was going to charge her under the "gross negligence" standard, and I think he should have. However, he changed "grossly negligent" to "extremely careless" and then spelled out his recommendation to the DoJ:

Finally, with respect to our recommendation to the Department of Justice:

In our system, the prosecutors make the decisions about whether charges are appropriate based on evidence the FBI has helped collect. Although we don’t normally make public our recommendations to the prosecutors, we frequently make recommendations and engage in productive conversations with prosecutors about what resolution may be appropriate, given the evidence. In this case, given the importance of the matter, I think unusual transparency is in order.

Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past.

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now.

As a result, although the Department of Justice makes final decisions on matters like this, we are expressing to Justice our view that no charges are appropriate in this case.

I know there will be intense public debate in the wake of this recommendation, as there was throughout this investigation. What I can assure the American people is that this investigation was done competently, honestly, and independently. No outside influence of any kind was brought to bear.

I know there were many opinions expressed by people who were not part of the investigation—including people in government—but none of that mattered to us. Opinions are irrelevant, and they were all uninformed by insight into our investigation, because we did the investigation the right way. Only facts matter, and the FBI found them here in an entirely apolitical and professional way. I couldn’t be prouder to be part of this organization.


President Trump wasn't being grossly negligent - he deliberately took those documents (which were marked - unlike the HRC email containing classified information with the exception of two or three which had paragraph markings), actively tried to keep them, lied to the FBI that he returned them, and conspired with an assistant to hide them. I think HRC should have been prosecuted, but she wasn't. I think Trump should have been prosecuted, but he was elected so that's out. I've been 100 percent consistent on handling classified information and have not whined that HRC wasn't prosecuted SO therefore Trump shouldn't be. That was always one of the most ridiculous arguments made throughout this mess.
 
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The FBI got every single email that passed through her server. This has been established over and over. It's not in doubt, except by you, I've never understood why you deny the known facts. Have you ever bothered to read Comey's statement? It's all addressed. It very much sounded like he was going to charge her under the "gross negligence" standard, and I think he should have. However, he changed "grossly negligent" to "extremely careless" and then spelled out his recommendation to the DoJ:

Finally, with respect to our recommendation to the Department of Justice:

In our system, the prosecutors make the decisions about whether charges are appropriate based on evidence the FBI has helped collect. Although we don’t normally make public our recommendations to the prosecutors, we frequently make recommendations and engage in productive conversations with prosecutors about what resolution may be appropriate, given the evidence. In this case, given the importance of the matter, I think unusual transparency is in order.

Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case. Prosecutors necessarily weigh a number of factors before bringing charges. There are obvious considerations, like the strength of the evidence, especially regarding intent. Responsible decisions also consider the context of a person’s actions, and how similar situations have been handled in the past.

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now.

As a result, although the Department of Justice makes final decisions on matters like this, we are expressing to Justice our view that no charges are appropriate in this case.

I know there will be intense public debate in the wake of this recommendation, as there was throughout this investigation. What I can assure the American people is that this investigation was done competently, honestly, and independently. No outside influence of any kind was brought to bear.

I know there were many opinions expressed by people who were not part of the investigation—including people in government—but none of that mattered to us. Opinions are irrelevant, and they were all uninformed by insight into our investigation, because we did the investigation the right way. Only facts matter, and the FBI found them here in an entirely apolitical and professional way. I couldn’t be prouder to be part of this organization.


President Trump wasn't being grossly negligence - he deliberately took those documents (which were marked - unlike the HRC email containing classified information with the exception of two or three which had paragraph markings), actively tried to keep them, lied to the FBI that he returned them, and conspired with an assistant to hide them. I think HRC should have been prosecuted, but she wasn't. I think Trump should have been prosecuted, but he was elected so that's out. I've been 100 percent consistent on handling classified information and have not whined that HRC wasn't prosecuted SO therefore Trump shouldn't be. That was always one of the most ridiculous arguments made throughout this mess.
Why do you think Trump made the joke about Russia helping fine the missing 32,000 e-mails?

Do you deny blackberries were destroyed or bleachbit wasn't used to destroy files?

Comey's statement was a total whitewash and CYA. "Well WE don't think she should be charged - and we're not going to investigate - but hey DOJ, if you want to, knock yourselves out". It's clear Comey was a political hack and was fired in disgrace. Why you would cite him as some kind of moral authority is a mystery to me.
 
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And other tribes used their own language in the military. These guys and Japanese Americans were legendary heros. Basically shit on by America, they proved their loyalty and more.

The Brits were the best at breaking code. Blechley Park was the unsung heros of WWII.
Hell yah. Did you ever see the Imitation Game with Benedict Cumberbach as Allan Turing? Incredible movie. I knew the story of him being the driving force in cracking Enigma, but had no idea after the war the British government decided that they would like to arrest Turing for being gay --a fact they knew when he was breaking Enigma. They gave Turing the choice--imprisonment or chemical castration. He chose the later and ended up committing suicide. Awful
 
For ****s sake people, this has nothing to do with Biden vs Hilary vs Trump. That's a distraction. A deflection. This is about Hegseth and his merry band discussing sensitive operational details about a forthcoming military action over a group chat that happened to have a reporter in it.

It's not remotely related to boxes of documents or destroyed hard drives. When you fight over that shit, the Trumpers win because they are successfully driving you away from the real issue.
 
For ****s sake people, this has nothing to do with Biden vs Hilary vs Trump. That's a distraction. A deflection. This is about Hegseth and his merry band discussing sensitive operational details about a forthcoming military action over a group chat that happened to have a reporter in it.

It's not remotely related to boxes of documents or destroyed hard drives. When you right over that shit, the Trumpers win because they are successfully driving you away from the real issue.
Goat, let's be honest. We are all pretty pissed off that not one single person from the Water Cooler was added to the chat. We are angry and in mourning for our deserved opportunity to participate in the decision making at issue. This is important stuff here. The Cooler deserved better and we are entitled to let off some steam and post memes
 
Why do you think Trump made the joke about Russia helping fine the missing 32,000 e-mails?

Do you deny blackberries were destroyed or bleachbit wasn't used to destroy files?

Comey's statement was a total whitewash and CYA. "Well WE don't think she should be charged - and we're not going to investigate - but hey DOJ, if you want to, knock yourselves out". It's clear Comey was a political hack and was fired in disgrace. Why you would cite him as some kind of moral authority is a mystery to me.
I do know. I also know the circumstances for the bleachbit and destroying a couple of old blackberries and how Trump defenders have distorted those things beyond all recognition. Every email in question was recovered and analyzed by the FBI. They didn't get them from the Russians. That was part of Trump's misinformation tactics he constantly employs and his schtick. The consequences weren't about investigating her more, he'd already completed the investigation (many months of investigation - three years from the start to finish). He was talking about administrative consequences, such as stripping her clearance and removing access.

I didn't cite Comey as a "moral authority." That's one of your typical deflections. I cited him so you could read the statement and learn something. They investigated this for months and months and that was the final statement.

The investigation report is publicly available (link below). It's very long, but you can dig in and learn some actual details yourself. If you did, you wouldn't repeat the same bogus talking points.


Edited to add: the investigation determined that 100 emails contained information that should have been deemed classified at the time they were sent, including 65 emails deemed "Secret" and 22 deemed "Top Secret". An additional 2,093 emails were retroactively designated "Confidential" by the State Department.
 
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He did mention that as well. I agree. Except I would have said something smart alecky like "guys, this one time at band camp, I shoved a flute up my _____"

Jason Biggs’ spit-take reaction to her saying that was just spot on perfect.

He’s so bored with the conversation that he just blithely acknowledges it by saying “Hmm.” right as he’s about to take a drink from a cup. Then he hacks through the spit-take, pounds his chest to clear it, darts his shocked gaze to her and says “Excuse me?”
 
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For ****s sake people, this has nothing to do with Biden vs Hilary vs Trump. That's a distraction. A deflection. This is about Hegseth and his merry band discussing sensitive operational details about a forthcoming military action over a group chat that happened to have a reporter in it.

It's not remotely related to boxes of documents or destroyed hard drives. When you fight over that shit, the Trumpers win because they are successfully driving you away from the real issue.
You're correct. I'll not respond to DANC again on this one. It's a waste of time and it is irrelevant to this situation.
 
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Hell yah. Did you ever see the Imitation Game with Benedict Cumberbach as Allan Turing? Incredible movie. I knew the story of him being the driving force in cracking Enigma, but had no idea after the war the British government decided that they would like to arrest Turing for being gay --a fact they knew when he was breaking Enigma. They gave Turing the choice--imprisonment or chemical castration. He chose the later and ended up committing suicide. Awful
Didn't see the movie, but knew about Turing. Just awful. I'm surprised the British were so against gayness, since it was so common there.
 
I do know. I also know the circumstances for the bleachbit and destroying a couple of old emails and how Trump defenders have distorted those things beyond all recognition. Every email in question was recovered and analyzed by the FBI. They didn't get them from the Russians. That was part of Trump's misinformation tactics he constantly employs and his schtick. The consequences weren't about investigating her more, he'd already completed the investigation (many months of investigation - three years from the start to finish). He was talking about administrative consequences, such as stripping her clearance and removing access.

I didn't cite Comey as a "moral authority." That's one of your typical deflections. I cited him so you could read the statement and learn something. They investigated this for months and months and that was the final statement.

There's a publicly available. It's very long, but you can dig in and learn some actual details yourself. If you did, you wouldn't complete the same bogus talking points.

I never said the FBI didn't have them. They had them and buried them. Duh!
 
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Didn't see the movie, but knew about Turing. Just awful. I'm surprised the British were so against gayness, since it was so common there.

The Brits were harsher on homosexuality (for men only…it was always legal for women - of course, say no more say no more) than most states here, probably all of them.

In fact, it was a capital offense from the reign of Henry VIII until the mid-1800s. Oscar Wilde did 2 years of, um, hard labour.

As recently as the mid 1950s, there were over 1000 Brits in prison for it.
 
For ****s sake people, this has nothing to do with Biden vs Hilary vs Trump. That's a distraction. A deflection. This is about Hegseth and his merry band discussing sensitive operational details about a forthcoming military action over a group chat that happened to have a reporter in it.

It's not remotely related to boxes of documents or destroyed hard drives. When you fight over that shit, the Trumpers win because they are successfully driving you away from the real issue.
And on Ego Man’s side of things, this is about creating an alternative truth.
  • Admitting anything undermines his truth.
  • Firing anyone undermines his truth.
  • Changing the communication platform undermines his truth.
  • Not pardoning federal crimes undermines his truth.
Ego Man is always right.

Two things to watch for:
1. How long will it take to completely erase this event from MAGA consciousness?
2. Far more important, what catastrophic mistakes, economically, politically, militarily, or otherwise, will this Administration make that Agent Orange will feel compelled to double-down on to prove he’s right? And at what cost to our future?
 
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So, when Trump doesn't turn in all his documents, he's hiding them.

When Biden doesn't turn his in - for decades - there's no 'evidence' he's hiding them?

I agree - treat them both the same. Charge one or charge none. I've always said that.

It's not loyalty, Marv. It's looking at facts and making up my own mind. I'm insulted you think I'm 'loyal' to Trump when I've clearly stated my differences here.
 
many problems other than the big one of using the app

Messages were set to autodelete and thus skirt laws on record-keeping

If anything was classified, each participate would need to be in a SCIF

Now we also seem to have some lying going on

Only the best people!

You're right about the SCIF..., And the auto-delete setting was another unforced error.

Where the reporter really screwed up while tripping over their glee at having fallen into the windfall of a major gots-ya moment was by having not waited 31 days to report it and Really having a Gotcha Moment (that could have possibly bagged a large chunk of Trumps Cabinet) when it came to a records violation...; I find that screw up (by the reporter) rather humorous...

As it turns out, the whole fiasco has become a net positive for the Administration in terms of a tough learning experience...

Now if it's ever repeated over the next 3+ years then all involved should be hung from the highest yardarm...

My biggest question is why the reporter in question would be on anyone's go to list in this Administration... If I'm Trump that's the other question I'm asking..., (aside from don't we have a better way to do this sort of thing in a timely manner)...
 
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For ****s sake people, this has nothing to do with Biden vs Hilary vs Trump. That's a distraction. A deflection. This is about Hegseth and his merry band discussing sensitive operational details about a forthcoming military action over a group chat that happened to have a reporter in it.

It's not remotely related to boxes of documents or destroyed hard drives. When you fight over that shit, the Trumpers win because they are successfully driving you away from the real issue.
IIt's not a distractionor deflection at all. It's called precedent. It's kind of a big thing in legal circles.....
 
You're right about the SCIF..., And the auto-delete setting was another unforced error.

Where the reporter really screwed up while tripping over their glee at having fallen into the windfall of a major gots-ya moment was by having not waited 31 days to report it and Really having a Gotcha Moment (that could have possibly bagged a large chunk of Trumps Cabinet) when it came to a records violation...; I find that screw up (by the reporter) rather humorous...

As it turns out, the whole fiasco has become a net positive for the Administration in terms of a tough learning experience...

Now if it's ever repeated over the next 3+ years then all involved should be hung from the highest yardarm...

My biggest question is why the reporter in question would be on anyone's go to list in this Administration... If I'm Trump that's the other question I'm asking..., (aside from don't we have a better way to do this sort of thing in a timely manner)...

This wasn't the first strange release

 
I enjoyed Trump's "deer in the headlights" response to questions about this, and how he quickly insulted the magazine. Later, Hegseth went full on scorched earth on the The Atlantic and the reporter who was included in the chat.
Even if you fully agree with that opinion, it's still nothing but a red meat distraction for the MAGAs. He even threw in a "Russia, Russia, Russia" .

Ya ****ed up, Pete, just admit it.
 
Pig Latin works like a charm. My kids have no idea what it means: et'slay attackyay ethay outhishay tonight
I am NOT lying when I tell this story. 6-7 yrs ago, just before I ditch FBook, I made a post that got senserd. I translated it to Spanish and reposted, it also was slammed down. Tried Russian, bamm.

As I drank more and was now TOTALLY on a mission, I converted to Pig Latin. It worked and received a lot of likes and shares. I think I posted about it here, back then.
My late Grampa would be so proud. He was a total "stick it to DA MAN" kinda man!
 
It is true, people always get told they have secure documents and never return them, move them the day before they come to look, and order security footage deleted.

Key words: DOJ alleges

I don't trust the Biden DoJ to be fair to Trump. At all. And neither did the judge.

Come on. If Trump wanted to hide them, would he have kept them at Mar a Lago?
 
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