What do these 21 cowards have in common?

larsIU

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I know but I actually feel like I know the subject matter well enough since I followed it like a freak over the past two years that maybe someone would read it and go....damn, that makes sense.

This is probably the best description of trying to talk to your teenaged kid I've ever seen in print. Just substitute the "two years" with "forty-six" and you've got me.
 

cosmickid

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How did Trump get more votes then?
As mcmurtry pointed out,because more people VOTED., The reason Trump won the EC in 2016 was because Dems (in MI, PA, and WI) stayed home or voted 3rd Party. A lot even voted for Trump...

But after 2 yrs in office, all 3 of those states were done with Trump. So in the 2018 midterms, all 3 of those states threw out GOP Govs and failed to elect any candidate Trump endorsed in a contested race...

And it was easy to see why, if you knew where to look. In Jan 2017 when Trump was inaugurated Morning Consult started a daily tracking poll of Trump's popularity state by state. They compiled monthly numbers based on their monthly survey of the same 5000 voters pool each month to track any fluctuations...

So in Jan 2017 Trump's approval rating (approval vs disapproval) in MI was 48%-40 (+8), in PA it was 49%-39% (+10), and in WI it was 47-41 (+6). This was the honeymoon period when the polling suggested these voters were generally more approving than disapproving of Trump in the states where he won the 2016 electoral vote...

But by the 2018 midterms, the drop in Trump's popularity among the same core group of voters in those 3 key states was incredible. He was now underwater in all 3 states with MI being 43-52 (-9) overall -17% decrease, PA being 46-51 (-5) overall -15% decrease and WI being 43-53 (-10) which represents a -16% drop in Trump's overall popularity from Jan 2017 to the Nov 2018 midterms...

Before you mischaracterize that as meaningless polling, you need to realize that election results in Nov 2018 in all 3 of those states reflected that decrease in popularity. The Dems didn't even have viable candidates for Gov in place on election night 2016 in any of those states, and by 2 yrs later the Dems had won every single Senate race and the Gov, as well as House seats in contested districts in EACH of those 3 states...

The reason all of that is significant is that those 3 states are where Biden WON the 2020 election. Your sophomoric claims about Trump's "popularity" aside, clearly Dem voters were much more motivated in those states in 2018 and 2020 than they were in 2016. You live in PA, are you unaware that a huge reason Trump lost PA is that he lost significant margins in red districts he won from 2016 to 2020?

Look at Butler Co, which Trump won in both 2016 and 2020. It's a suburb of Pittsburgh, or at least adjacent to Allegheny County. In 2016 Trump won the vote there by more than 37 % (66.7% to 29.2%) This is a GOP county, and you only believe Dems "cheat", which is why I'm showing you this county. Close to 100,000 votes cast with Trump getting 61,388 and HRC getting less than 27,000 around 26,800 or so.Three other candidates dividing 4000 or so votes...

In 2016 those types of rural margins helped Trump to counter Clinton's lead in Blue areas like Philly and Pitt. But in 2020 while more people overall voted in Butler (close to 112,000) Trump's margin went from nearly 38% to 32.5 %. While Trump got 74,300 votes Biden got 37,500 and that same loss of victory % was reflected in many other red counties in PA. Which meant far fewer votes from rural areas for Trump to try and hold off huge Dem amounts in Phil and Pitt.

That's how Trump's 1.2 win in 2016 turns into a roughly 1.2% Biden win in 2020. It's also important to note that with 5 candidates receiving votes in 2016 Trump was only at 48.8 % of the total vote share. But with only a two-man race in 2020 Biden was right at 50%. Again all of these stats point directly to less % of votes FOR Trump among PA Trump voters in 2020 than in 2016...This further validates the MC polling numbers...


As to your rally nonsense, most Biden voters voted EARLY (in person or mail), which means while Trump was holding rallies most Biden voters had already voted. Biden voters weren't concerned with "rallies"- I've never been to a political rally.

Equally telling is that Biden voter's enthusiasm was reflected in huge primary numbers over Clinton in 2016. In primary after primary total Dem vote numbers in 2020 exceeded the numbers that had voted in 2016. In a state like MI where Sanders won in 2016, Biden's numbers in 2020 eclipsed the total votes cast for Clinton/Bernie combined in 2016. And both Clinton and Bernie held rallies equal to Trump when they campaigned in 2016...

But the biggest fallacy on your Trump rally theory is the Trump rally themselves. Significant people at Trump rallies were "groupies" who attended multiple rallies. And MANY of them were not locals and didn't reflect the shape of the actual election in the area the rally was held.

An example was a HUGE Trump rally held in Omaha, which had Nebraskans as well as people from surrounding states like Kansas, Iowa, Ok, etc... But Neb breaks down EVs by congressional districts, and Biden beat Trump for the EV that the district Omaha includes awarded.

In other words, Trump held a rally in Omaha, but very few of the people attending were local to Omaha, and in general, they came from deeply red states, to begin with... That's another reason you have to take your "rally size" theory with a grain of salt...People at Trump rallies voted for Trump, but it's where they actually voted that matters...
 
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TommyCracker

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As mcmurtry pointed out,because more people VOTED., The reason Trump won the EC in 2016 was because Dems (in MI, PA, and WI) stayed home or voted 3rd Party. A lot even voted for Trump...

But after 2 yrs in office, all 3 of those states were done with Trump. So in the 2018 midterms, all 3 of those states threw out GOP Govs and failed to elect any candidate Trump endorsed in a contested race...

And it was easy to see why, if you knew where to look. In Jan 2017 when Trump was inaugurated Morning Consult started a daily tracking poll of Trump's popularity state by state. They compiled monthly numbers based on their monthly survey of the same 5000 voters pool each month to track any fluctuations...

So in Jan 2017 Trump's approval rating (approval vs disapproval) in MI was 48%-40 (+8), in PA it was 49%-39% (+10), and in WI it was 47-41 (+6). This was the honeymoon period when the polling suggested these voters were generally more approving than disapproving of Trump in the states where he won the 2016 electoral vote...

But by the 2018 midterms, the drop in Trump's popularity among the same core group of voters in those 3 key states was incredible. He was now underwater in all 3 states with MI being 43-52 (-9) overall -17% decrease, PA being 46-51 (-5) overall -15% decrease and WI being 43-53 (-10) which represents a -16% drop in Trump's overall popularity from Jan 2017 to the Nov 2018 midterms...

Before you mischaracterize that as meaningless polling, you need to realize that election results in Nov 2018 in all 3 of those states reflected that decrease in popularity. The Dems didn't even have viable candidates for Gov in place on election night 2016 in any of those states, and by 2 yrs later the Dems had won every single Senate race and the Gov, as well as House seats in contested districts in EACH of those 3 states...

The reason all of that is significant is that those 3 states are where Biden WON the 2020 election. Your sophomoric claims about Trump's "popularity" aside, clearly Dem voters were much more motivated in those states in 2018 and 2020 than they were in 2016. You live in PA, are you unaware that a huge reason Trump lost PA is that he lost significant margins in red districts he won from 2016 to 2020?

Look at Butler Co, which Trump won in both 2016 and 2020. It's a suburb of Pittsburgh, or at least adjacent to Allegheny County. In 2016 Trump won the vote there by more than 37 % (66.7% to 29.2%) This is a GOP county, and you only believe Dems "cheat", which is why I'm showing you this county. Close to 100,000 votes cast with Trump getting 61,388 and HRC getting less than 27,000 around 26,800 or so.Three other candidates dividing 4000 or so votes...

In 2016 those types of rural margins helped Trump to counter Clinton's lead in Blue areas like Philly and Pitt. But in 2020 while more people overall voted in Butler (close to 112,000) Trump's margin went from nearly 38% to 32.5 %. While Trump got 74,300 votes Biden got 37,500 and that same loss of victory % was reflected in many other red counties in PA. Which meant far fewer votes from rural areas for Trump to try and hold off huge Dem amounts in Phil and Pitt.

That's how Trump's 1.2 win in 2016 turns into a roughly 1.2% Biden win in 2020. It's also important to note that with 5 candidates receiving votes in 2016 Trump was only at 48.8 % of the total vote share. But with only a two-man race in 2020 Biden was right at 50%. Again all of these stats point directly to less % of votes FOR Trump among PA Trump voters in 2020 than in 2016...This further validates the MC polling numbers...

As to your rally nonsense, most Biden voters voted EARLY (in person or mail), which means while Trump was holding rallies most Biden voters had already voted. Biden voters weren't concerned with "rallies"- I've never been to a political rally.

Equally telling is that Biden voter's enthusiasm was reflected in huge primary numbers over Clinton in 2016. In primary after primary total Dem vote numbers in 2020 exceeded the numbers that had voted in 2016. In a state like MI where Sanders won in 2016, Biden's numbers in 2020 eclipsed the total votes cast for Clinton/Bernie combined in 2016. And both Clinton and Bernie held rallies equal to Trump when they campaigned in 2016...

But the biggest fallacy on your Trump rally theory is the Trump rally themselves. Significant people at Trump rallies were "groupies" who attended multiple rallies. And MANY of them were not locals and didn't reflect the shape of the actual election in the area the rally was held.

An example was a HUGE Trump rally held in Omaha, which had Nebraskans as well as people from surrounding states like Kansas, Iowa, Ok, etc... But Neb breaks down EVs by congressional districts, and Biden beat Trump for the EV that the district Omaha includes awarded.

In other words, Trump held a rally in Omaha, but very few of the people attending were local to Omaha, and in general, they came from deeply red states, to begin with... That's another reason you have to take your "rally size" theory with a grain of salt...People at Trump rallies voted for Trump, but it's where they actually voted that matters...





One of the most interesting tells was that core polling data didn't move much all year. Approval, disapproval, etc.

The political hacks I listen to (David Axelrod (D) and Mike Murphy (R)) were saying how rare that was, especially after all of the shit that happened last year.

The numbers were saying most people's minds were already made up a year prior.

Again, more proof that this was basically an anti-Trump vs pro-Trump election.
 

IU_Hickory

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There was no insurrection. Did you ever notice that not one painting was spray painted for instance? They could have torn that place up but they didn't. Those who committed any kind of violence have been dealt with and they were on the leftist side of things. You do know that DJT is not President now? The left cheated and got him out of office. How do I know that? It's because you can't make me believe that Biden was more popular than Obama. He got more votes than Obama. How do you explain that especially when Biden rarely campaigned after leaving his basement. DJT got more votes than he did in 16 and still lost? I don't believe it was a legitimate election.

So anyone that commits violence is a leftist? That is news to all the exteme RIGHTwing people that committed the violence.

Biden got more votes than obama because it was that important to many people to get a tyrant out of the white house.
 

UncleMark

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So anyone that commits violence is a leftist? That is news to all the exteme RIGHTwing people that committed the violence.

Biden got more votes than obama because it was that important to many people to get a tyrant out of the white house.
People have no problem claiming that Trump was elected because Hillary was so awful, but can't say the same about Biden being elected because Trump was so awful.
 

cosmickid

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I'm only putting this in here b/c the thread was ostensibly about republican congresspeople. But seems like Florida's 13th congressional district race is heating up with Crist running for governor.

This is nuts. Warning - the language in the recorded call is INSANE. Have fun in prison.

Crist running to replace DeSantis and Val Demmings trying to oust Rubio. Two extremely popular Dems who the GOP is going to have a hard time labeling as "socialist". DeSantis barely beat Gillum by 30,000 votes in 2018, but Crist is a whole different animal and is a former Pub turned Dem that served as AG and Governor before his current House seat...

I was going to say that Crist might be a little long in the teeth, but hell he's a year younger than me. And while Val is a former Police Chief (and Trump Impeachment) Prosecutor, Crist authored a book about how he left the GOP after it was hijacked by the Far Right. So this is shaping up to be a good test of Trumpism and whether FL is the purple state that Obama won twice or a reliably red state that endorses Trump's brand of populism...
 
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mcmurtry66

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Crist running to replace DeSantis and Val Demmings trying to oust Rubio. Two extremely popular Dems who the GOP is going to have a hard time labeling as "socialist". DeSantis barely beat Gillum by 30,000 votes in 2018, but Crist is a whole different animal and is a former Pub turned Dem that served as AG and Governor before his current House seat...

I was going to say that Crist might be a little long in the teeth, but hell he's a year younger than me. And while Val is a former Police Chief (and Trump Impeachment) Prosecutor, Crist authored a book about how he left the GOP after it was hijacked by the Far Right. So this is shaping up to be a good test of Trumpism and whether FL is the purple state that Obama won twice or a reliably red state that endorses Trump's brand of populism...
crist will call himself repub, dem, independent whatever he thinks will win him a job. he fears he'll be out of a job with redistricting so the only thing left is to run for gov. i guess he could go back to morgan & morgan and hustle personal injury cases but that's more work than gov
 

cosmickid

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I know you Democrats desperately want to keep January 6 on the front burner. I think that will shrink to insignificance in the face of the southern border mess, energy production, cost of living, deteriorating cities, woke backlash, and labor market chaos brought on by ill-advised legislation. The icing on the cake will be the total intellectual void in POTUS and VPOTUS.
So you think having Trump around for the 2022 midterms will make people believe there is an intellectual void when it comes to Biden/Harris? (This is actually you trolling, right?) Not to mention that most of these issues rate as high with Biden/Dem midterm voters as the harping on caravans and the persecution of Kavanaugh did in 2018?

My point is that Trump on tv and at rallies guarantees that he'll be in the public arena, which guarantees that he'll continue to be a huge polarizer. I think that lessens the potential for Dem apathy, and since Dems outnumber pubs I think that means Dem voters will turn out in far greater numbers than conventional wisdom might suggest...

The GOP is basically in a civil war in some states (particularly out west) and Primary voters are going to force candidates to embrace their most Trumpian level of crazy. That will make it hard for centrist candidates who come out of the Primaries to pivot and appeal to a more moderate general election electorate. I think the Trump factor will hurt some pretty vulnerable GOP candidates who are trying to protect Senate seats they need to defend...
 

larsIU

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Crist running to replace DeSantis and Val Demmings trying to oust Rubio. Two extremely popular Dems who the GOP is going to have a hard time labeling as "socialist". DeSantis barely beat Gillum by 30,000 votes in 2018, but Crist is a whole different animal and is a former Pub turned Dem that served as AG and Governor before his current House seat...

I was going to say that Crist might be a little long in the teeth, but hell he's a year younger than me. And while Val is a former Police Chief (and Trump Impeachment) Prosecutor, Crist authored a book about how he left the GOP after it was hijacked by the Far Right. So this is shaping up to be a good test of Trumpism and whether FL is the purple state that Obama won twice or a reliably red state that endorses Trump's brand of populism...
I think Crist will have a hard time beating DeSantis as it stands. However DeSantis may consider a prez run which could make things interesting. I would agree Crist is a better candidate than Gillum. And Florida might just be tired of Rubio. Demmings has a good shot considering what happened just north of Florida in the last election.
 

mcmurtry66

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I think Crist will have a hard time beating DeSantis as it stands. However DeSantis may consider a prez run which could make things interesting. I would agree Crist is a better candidate than Gillum. And Florida might just be tired of Rubio. Demmings has a good shot considering what happened just north of Florida in the last election.
Rubio’s Hispanic support in dade will be hard to overcome for demmings
 
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Crayfish57

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No, dude. I haven't been gaslighted by anyone. I have eyes and ears. I can read and I can think. I saw what happened on Jan 6. I know the dictionary definition of insurrection. And what happened on Jan 6 fits that definition to a T.

But don't take my word for it. What have the top two Congressional Republicans said? On January 6, Mitch McConnell labeled it a "failed insurrection." And Kevin McCarthy, in an interview with Chris Wallace in April, noted that "you had an insurrection at the Capitol." And, finally, there's Trump lawyer, Michael van der Veen, who commented at Trump's most recent impeachment trial, "The question before us is not whether there was a violent insurrection of the Capitol. On that point, everyone agrees."

I know that there is now a concerted effort by congressional Republicans to essentially delete the word (insurrection) from the English language because they know it's harmful to their midterm prospects. But neither the word nor the memory of the January 6 insurrection are going away.

With respect to the Rochester matter, I'm not that familiar with it but maybe it too was an insurrection. Was it violent? Were people injured? Were the offenders trying to hunt down councilmen/women, or did they threaten to hang the Vice Mayor?
Maybe you should try and get out of the bowl causing your mania? I avoid religion but the way all of you attack VPM is absurd. We watched the country melt for an entire ELECTION year I really doubt you cared as long as nothing of yours was burning. What makes people like you so stupid and devoid of actual thought?
 

Crayfish57

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People have no problem claiming that Trump was elected because Hillary was so awful, but can't say the same about Biden being elected because Trump was so awful.
Difference is in who was actually elected. Do you liberal all drink from the same water tank?
 

Bowlmania

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Maybe you should try and get out of the bowl causing your mania? I avoid religion but the way all of you attack VPM is absurd. We watched the country melt for an entire ELECTION year I really doubt you cared as long as nothing of yours was burning. What makes people like you so stupid and devoid of actual thought?
You're posting at 4:30 in the morning. Maybe you're drunk, which would help explain your nonsense.

I'm not attacking (and would never attack) VPM's religious faith. I'm talking about his politics.

Republican leadership has gone from "Trump was responsible for the insurrection," to "Trump wasn't responsible for the insurrection," to "There was no insurrection," in the span of five months. Predictably, VPM is now an insurrection denier.

People like you and VPM are being played for fools.
 
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UncleMark

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Republican leadership has gone from "Trump was responsible for the insurrection," to "Trump wasn't responsible for the insurrection," to "There was no insurrection," in the span of five months. Predictably, VPM is now an insurrection denier.

People like you and VPM are being played for fools.
No, it's the other way around. The leadership is following them.
 
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Bowlmania

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No, it's the other way around. The leadership is following them.
Maybe you're right.

It's seems like such a simple solution. The messaging of Republican leadership could be something along the lines of, "The events of January 6 were reprehensible, but the people who attacked the Capitol do not represent the views and values of the Republican Party." But they'd run the risk of alienating not only the 1,000 or so who were part of the Capitol mob but the millions who endorse the events of Jan 6 and/or wish they had been part of it. And we know how those people vote.

Besides, when you're able to convince people that something didn't happen despite what they saw and heard with their own eyes and ears, there's no need for disclaimers.
 

Bulk VanderHuge

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Maybe you're right.

It's seems like such a simple solution. The messaging of Republican leadership could be something along the lines of, "The events of January 6 were reprehensible, but the people who attacked the Capitol do not represent the views and values of the Republican Party." But they'd run the risk of alienating not only the 1,000 or so who were part of the Capitol mob but the millions who endorse the events of Jan 6 and/or wish they had been part of it. And we know how those people vote.

Besides, when you're able to convince people that something didn't happen despite what they saw and heard with their own eyes and ears, there's no need for disclaimers.
Thus the point of my OP.
 

INRanger27

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Maybe you're right.

It's seems like such a simple solution. The messaging of Republican leadership could be something along the lines of, "The events of January 6 were reprehensible, but the people who attacked the Capitol do not represent the views and values of the Republican Party." But they'd run the risk of alienating not only the 1,000 or so who were part of the Capitol mob but the millions who endorse the events of Jan 6 and/or wish they had been part of it. And we know how those people vote.

Besides, when you're able to convince people that something didn't happen despite what they saw and heard with their own eyes and ears, there's no need for disclaimers.
Yet you can type all of this without turning that around and explaining how the Democrats leadership should say the same as the destructive rioters and murderers from last summer.

You are either a blind man, extremely partisan, or very dumb.
 

mcmurtry66

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Yet you can type all of this without turning that around and explaining how the Democrats leadership should say the same as the destructive rioters and murderers from last summer.

You are either a blind man, extremely partisan, or very dumb.
No shit - “saw and heard with their own eyes and ears.” As if people don’t see things differently and interpret things differently. It’s apropos of both Jan 6 and the summer of love. Yet lost on him? Pissing in the wind at this point...
 
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Bowlmania

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Yet you can type all of this without turning that around and explaining how the Democrats leadership should say the same as the destructive rioters and murderers from last summer.

You are either a blind man, extremely partisan, or very dumb.
First, I'm wondering if you've confused me with someone else. I've never condoned violence. The attackers, arsonists and looters of last summer are despicable human beings who deserve prosecution and punishment.

Second, I'm not a Dem and never have been. I was a registered Republican for 25 years but am now an Independent.

Finally, I heard Biden - - on multiple occasions during the campaign - - condemn the violence. He talked about distinguishing between legitimate peaceful protest and "opportunistic violent destruction." I can provide links if you're doubtful.
 
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Bowlmania

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No shit - “saw and heard with their own eyes and ears.” As if people don’t see things differently and interpret things differently. It’s apropos of both Jan 6 and the summer of love. Yet lost on him? Pissing in the wind at this point...
I thought you were smarter than this, mcm, and I'll repeat what I said yesterday.

Your party's own leadership (McConnell and McCarthy), shortly after the Capitol riot, condemned the events of the day, called it an insurrection and said Trump was at least partly responsible. Now, suddenly, it wasn't an insurrection. I'm calling bullshit.

Next, the rioters and others who committed acts of violence last summer are pieces of shit.
 

mcmurtry66

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I thought you were smarter than this, mcm, and I'll repeat what I said yesterday.

Your party's own leadership (McConnell and McCarthy), shortly after the Capitol riot, condemned the events of the day, called it an insurrection and said Trump was at least partly responsible. Now, suddenly, it wasn't an insurrection. I'm calling bullshit.

Next, the rioters and others who committed acts of violence last summer are pieces of shit.
Wrong people to ask. offenders are more meaningful source. and in truth it all depends on how you define insurrection. was it a spontaneous uprising intended to cause a disturbance? okay. was it an organized plot to overthrow the government and seize control? no.
 
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INRanger27

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First, I'm wondering if you've confused me with someone else. I've never condoned violence. The attackers, arsonists and looters of last summer are despicable human beings who deserve prosecution and punishment.

Second, I'm not a Dem and never have been. I was a registered Republican for 25 years but am now an Independent.

Finally, I heard Biden - - on multiple occasions during the campaign - - condemn the violence. He talked about distinguishing between legitimate peaceful protest and "opportunistic violent destruction." I can provide links if you're doubtful.
And what GOP members applauded the violence? You’re so emotional on this you can’t think straight.

and ps it took Biden weeks to condemn the violence in order to make sure they didn’t drive voters away
 

TommyCracker

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Republican leadership has gone from "Trump was responsible for the insurrection," to "Trump wasn't responsible for the insurrection," to "There was no insurrection," in the span of five months. Predictably, VPM is now an insurrection denier.
This is the strategy that has me most interested and most disappointed in today's political games/strategy.

I believe it is a systematic strategy. Why else would that Georgian senator be claiming it was a nothingburger and if you saw the pics you'd think they were just tourists...and then later have pics of him helping barring the doors.

As pointed out by Bowl, you can see in Van's post its working on the base. He's not alone, most of my Trumpy friends still say it was an antifa like group (but I haven't had a deep conversation with many of them for months. I'm really curious if they've moved on to denial).

It makes me ask two questions. 1. Are they scared of the extreme of their base (I've heard that death threats, violence among Trumpy constituents has ramped up within the party) or 2. Do they know that they can not only present alternative facts but alternative realities that will be accepted?

Granted the nature of politics is all about spin but is this a level that we've never gone as effectively? If so, yikes.
 

UncleMark

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It makes me ask two questions. 1. Are they scared of the extreme of their base (I've heard that death threats, violence among Trumpy constituents has ramped up within the party) or 2. Do they know that they can not only present alternative facts but alternative realities that will be accepted?
 
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cosmickid

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Yet you can type all of this without turning that around and explaining how the Democrats leadership should say the same as the destructive rioters and murderers from last summer.

You are either a blind man, extremely partisan, or very dumb.
I think the people involved with last summer, who were the targets of LEO attempts to apprehend them have for the most part been arrested/charged and are for the most part winding their way thru the justice system. I know in Portland there were undercover Treasury Agents (IIRC, that was the branch) who were driving around the streets of the roughly 2 block area (near the Courthouse) where the rioting occurred and grabbing suspected rioters and whisking them away...

Oregon Live sent camera crews on the streets in July to document the reality of the situation in the city on a daily basis.


People who actually live in Portland were shocked to learn that apparently, their city was on fire because for 90% of Portland life went on in a pretty normal way...

Trump claimed in an Aug 2020 ploy for votes that Portland was on fire. Politifact did a fact check and interviewed a number of residents, including spokespeople for both the Fire Dept and the Police Bureau...

"We are not on fire. We have not been on fire," said Lt. Rich Chatman, a spokesperson for Portland Fire & Rescue, adding that there has been "a steady and remarkable decline in the number of fires for the last few years and certainly decades."

"There’s a lot of damage around the federal courthouse," Chatman said. "But the fact of the matter is this is a very small area of even downtown. We are not under siege."

"For the average resident of Portland, they probably never lay eyes on some of these fires," Chatman added. "This is a very concentrated area."

The Portland Police Bureau provided PolitiFact with a map and timeline of the protests from May 29 to Aug. 31. It details where each has taken place, whether a riot was declared, whether arrests were made, and whether the protesters used projectiles, fireworks, vandalism or fires.

By our count, there were 54 fires set across 95 nights of demonstrations, which have largely taken place at one of 10 discrete locations, according to the map and timeline".


It sounds like the situation you'd have in Indy if the area around the Post Office and the Park across the street (near the main Library) were the nightly site of protests. Would it be correct to characterize Indy as a "battleground" when none of the folks in the surrounding areas of Marion Co would even be aware of "riots", and people attending Colts or Pacers games might not even hear the noise?
 

TheOriginalHappyGoat

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And what GOP members applauded the violence? You’re so emotional on this you can’t think straight.

and ps it took Biden weeks to condemn the violence in order to make sure they didn’t drive voters away
I don't know what it is about Bowl that makes you guys lose your senses, but it's happening to you again, Ranger. He didn't say politicians were applauding the violence. He said they have shifted from blaming Trump to not blaming Trump to now denying that it even happened.
 

cosmickid

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I don't know what it is about Bowl that makes you guys lose your senses, but it's happening to you again, Ranger. He didn't say politicians were applauding the violence. He said they have shifted from blaming Trump to not blaming Trump to now denying that it even happened.
I think most of the vids are from bodycam footage, as well as some social media. There weren't exactly network camera crews embedded with the rioters...

At any rate, they're directly from the FBI website...


I lived in Germany for 6 1/2 yrs, so I've seen my share of American "tourists" engaging in pretty despicable acts. But I can't recall anything on this level...
 

cosmickid

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I don't know what it is about Bowl that makes you guys lose your senses, but it's happening to you again, Ranger. He didn't say politicians were applauding the violence. He said they have shifted from blaming Trump to not blaming Trump to now denying that it even happened.
Btw, the latest talking point beginning to emerge is that the FBI was "involved" in Jan 6.
Tucker literally came up with the idea on his show the other night and seemingly convinced himself of its veracity within the course of the same monologue...

Then of course the real Crazy Louie Gohmert, who has never met a Conspiracy Theory he wasn't ready to immerse himself in whole cloth, took it upon himself to go a step further and take Tucker's hypothesis to the House floor...Of course, there is actual video out there of Gohmert calling himself an idiot, so...

This video is at times hilarious. I guess I somehow missed Louie's claims that BO wanted to "restore the Ottoman Empire", and the ribbing Cenk (who is Turkish) gets over that in this video cracks me up...


Of course, nothing ever happens by accident in wacky Conspiracy land. And this evening we are getting breaking news about the FBI probing possible connections to the insurrectionists and members of Congress or their staffs. Strange how Louie mentioned the need to investigate what the FBI "Knew" when you consider that he voted NO on the proposed Commission that would have been able to conduct such a probe...

I wonder if any of the other members who voted NO, have any unanswered questions as well? Strange the way these people always say they have questions, but yet they want to dig and find the answers? I wonder what they're afraid of...


 
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INRanger27

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I don't know what it is about Bowl that makes you guys lose your senses, but it's happening to you again, Ranger. He didn't say politicians were applauding the violence. He said they have shifted from blaming Trump to not blaming Trump to now denying that it even happened.
That’s not a fair take. He talked about how Biden condemned the violence in a tone vis-à-vis: we’re better than you.

Bowl is a hyper partisan stooge who, if he’s saying what you say he’s saying, is really bad at words.
 

Bowlmania

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That’s not a fair take. He talked about how Biden condemned the violence in a tone vis-à-vis: we’re better than you.

Bowl is a hyper partisan stooge who, if he’s saying what you say he’s saying, is really bad at words.
RANGER: Yet you can type all of this without turning that around and explaining how the Democrats leadership should say the same as the destructive rioters and murderers from last summer.
BOWL: I heard Biden - - on multiple occasions during the campaign - - condemn the violence. He talked about distinguishing between legitimate peaceful protest and "opportunistic violent destruction." I can provide links if you're doubtful.

Tone? You were suggesting Dem leadership was hypocritical by not condemning last summer's violence. I responded that Biden did, in fact, condemn the riots of 2020. What in hell's f*ck are you talking about?

And, for the second time, I was a Republican for years. I'm not a Dem and never have been, but keep holding onto your bullshit default argument that I'm a partisan hack.

Your posts used to be worth reading.
 
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rocket_knight

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Mar 11, 2004
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Maybe you should try and get out of the bowl causing your mania? I avoid religion but the way all of you attack VPM is absurd. We watched the country melt for an entire ELECTION year I really doubt you cared as long as nothing of yours was burning. What makes people like you so stupid and devoid of actual thought?
The unsaved are rudderless. Christians have Jesus and trump to lead us to victory.
 

Jg48

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Mar 28, 2010
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I always learn something about Trump supporters when VPM posts something like this.
Yes, I do too. It always brings out a response from all the "lambs" on the forum. In unison they decry Trump. If you listen, you can hear their incessant bleating, " Trump is baaad, Trump is baaaad, Trump is baaaad." They will continue their bleating, oblivious to the direction the country is being taken by Biden and his allies. Nothing the left does seems to bother them. Dutiful little sheep, true to the cause. They certainly fit the role they were given in Animal Farm.
 
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ButHerEmails

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Sep 28, 2019
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I think the people involved with last summer, who were the targets of LEO attempts to apprehend them have for the most part been arrested/charged and are for the most part winding their way thru the justice system. I know in Portland there were undercover Treasury Agents (IIRC, that was the branch) who were driving around the streets of the roughly 2 block area (near the Courthouse) where the rioting occurred and grabbing suspected rioters and whisking them away...

Oregon Live sent camera crews on the streets in July to document the reality of the situation in the city on a daily basis.


People who actually live in Portland were shocked to learn that apparently, their city was on fire because for 90% of Portland life went on in a pretty normal way...

Trump claimed in an Aug 2020 ploy for votes that Portland was on fire. Politifact did a fact check and interviewed a number of residents, including spokespeople for both the Fire Dept and the Police Bureau...

"We are not on fire. We have not been on fire," said Lt. Rich Chatman, a spokesperson for Portland Fire & Rescue, adding that there has been "a steady and remarkable decline in the number of fires for the last few years and certainly decades."

"There’s a lot of damage around the federal courthouse," Chatman said. "But the fact of the matter is this is a very small area of even downtown. We are not under siege."

"For the average resident of Portland, they probably never lay eyes on some of these fires," Chatman added. "This is a very concentrated area."

The Portland Police Bureau provided PolitiFact with a map and timeline of the protests from May 29 to Aug. 31. It details where each has taken place, whether a riot was declared, whether arrests were made, and whether the protesters used projectiles, fireworks, vandalism or fires.

By our count, there were 54 fires set across 95 nights of demonstrations, which have largely taken place at one of 10 discrete locations, according to the map and timeline".


It sounds like the situation you'd have in Indy if the area around the Post Office and the Park across the street (near the main Library) were the nightly site of protests. Would it be correct to characterize Indy as a "battleground" when none of the folks in the surrounding areas of Marion Co would even be aware of "riots", and people attending Colts or Pacers games might not even hear the noise?
No, Portland burned to the ground. It was the Rothchilds and Bilderbergs who financed an overnight reconstruction. And Soros helped finance too. Forgot about him. Jewish space lasers disintegrated the debris to speed up the process. At least that’s what the Chinese special forces said at our last meeting.
 
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cosmickid

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Yes, I do too. It always brings out a response from all the "lambs" on the forum. In unison they decry Trump. If you listen, you can hear their incessant bleating, " Trump is baaad, Trump is baaaad, Trump is baaaad." They will continue their bleating, oblivious to the direction the country is being taken by Biden and his allies. Nothing the left does seems to bother them. Dutiful little sheep, true to the cause. They certainly fit the role they were given in Animal Farm.
Well nothing like taking a book by a Socialist which opines on the evils of Fascism to juxtapose who Orwell intended for the "sheep" to represent...Not only was Orwell anti-Fascist in personal belief, but he actually travelled to Spain to fight for the Republic in their struggle against Franco and the Fascists. He wrote an excellent book Homage to Catalonia which spoke to his experiences in Spain and what he personally witnessed...

Animal Farm was written in 1945, this is what he said about it and all his writing in 1946... Excerpt from an essay entitled "Why I Write".

"The Spanish war and other events in 1936-37 turned the scale and thereafter I knew where I stood. Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism, as I understand it."

 
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