What’s it gonna take to change our losing culture?

[HoozierDaddy]

Here we are again….midway through the football season and looking forward to basketball. Hell, I think the volleyball team is showing a lot of promise. We’ve been down this path so many times. I hate it but the fact is that we have a losing football culture. Always have but don’t always have too. It will take time but I feel we need someone to come in and blow-up everything and start over. New locker room signs, new traditions on game day, new ideas to get students and fans out of the tailgate fields and to stay, new pressure on the donors, whatever it takes, do something different. If we just keep doing the same old same old thing nothing will ever change. It’s literally the definition of insanity. In the meantime, I just bought my season volleyball tickets.

 

[kmathum]

Here we are again….midway through the football season and looking forward to basketball. Hell, I think the volleyball team is showing a lot of promise. We’ve been down this path so many times. I hate it but the fact is that we have a losing football culture. Always have but don’t always have too. It will take time but I feel we need someone to come in and blow-up everything and start over. New locker room signs, new traditions on game day, new ideas to get students and fans out of the tailgate fields and to stay, new pressure on the donors, whatever it takes, do something different. If we just keep doing the same old same old thing nothing will ever change. It’s literally the definition of insanity. In the meantime, I just bought my season volleyball tickets.

It all starts at the top. BOT I suppose.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Here we are again….midway through the football season and looking forward to basketball. Hell, I think the volleyball team is showing a lot of promise. We’ve been down this path so many times. I hate it but the fact is that we have a losing football culture. Always have but don’t always have too. It will take time but I feel we need someone to come in and blow-up everything and start over. New locker room signs, new traditions on game day, new ideas to get students and fans out of the tailgate fields and to stay, new pressure on the donors, whatever it takes, do something different. If we just keep doing the same old same old thing nothing will ever change. It’s literally the definition of insanity. In the meantime, I just bought my season volleyball tickets.

IU has one of the worst inherent recruiting bases in the country of major schools, and inherent recruiting base over the decades matters.

and the worse the inherent recruiting base, the less chance you have to recruit successfully outside the base.

absolutely nothing the administration can do about that.

attendance is the one thing the administration does have control over.

they are totally apathetic to do anything about attendance other than hope for a miracle as their primary and only strategy..

a full stadium is ten times more important to recruits than locker or weight rooms or any facilities, and the one thing the administration flat refuses to invest so much as a cent in.

 

[IUNorth]

Here we are again….midway through the football season and looking forward to basketball. Hell, I think the volleyball team is showing a lot of promise. We’ve been down this path so many times. I hate it but the fact is that we have a losing football culture. Always have but don’t always have too. It will take time but I feel we need someone to come in and blow-up everything and start over. New locker room signs, new traditions on game day, new ideas to get students and fans out of the tailgate fields and to stay, new pressure on the donors, whatever it takes, do something different. If we just keep doing the same old same old thing nothing will ever change. It’s literally the definition of insanity. In the meantime, I just bought my season volleyball tickets.

There are lots of paths out of the basement. I've theorized on some non traditional paths, trying to leverage IU's world class schools, and then just overpay the coaching staff, etc...

But as others have pointed out, the right head coaching hire would elevate us, I'm sure. As long as that coach has the resources to hire a quality assistant staff.

Also...it depends on where you want the path to lead. Consistent B10 title contender? That would take dump trucks filled with money. NIL, coaching, facilities...everything would need a MAJOR raise in funding. AND then it'd take the right coach, and the right staff.

If we're just wanting a consistent lower level bowl type team...

1. Schedule 3 home OOC patsies every year.
2. Find the right HC. My suggestion is a proven, successful, small college coach from somewhere.
3. Overspend on a top level assistant coaching staff.
4. Work, like crazy, to up the NIL money available for football.

In the end...its going to take the school decision makers to decide that its a priority. Until then, I don't see it happening.

 

[kmathum]

IU has one of the worst inherent recruiting bases in the country of major schools, and inherent recruiting base over the decades matters.

and the worse the inherent recruiting base, the less chance you have to recruit successfully outside the base.

absolutely nothing the administration can do about that.

attendance is the one thing the administration does have control over.

they are totally apathetic to do anything about attendance other than hope for a miracle as their primary and only strategy..

a full stadium is ten times more important to recruits than locker or weight rooms or any facilities, and the one thing the administration flat refuses to invest so much as a cent in.

They can spend money on proven coaches. Not fire competent one's and hire high school coaches. That seems pretty much common sense. That is if you really want to be competitive. That's the real question. Do they.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Here we are again….midway through the football season and looking forward to basketball. Hell, I think the volleyball team is showing a lot of promise. We’ve been down this path so many times. I hate it but the fact is that we have a losing football culture. Always have but don’t always have too. It will take time but I feel we need someone to come in and blow-up everything and start over. New locker room signs, new traditions on game day, new ideas to get students and fans out of the tailgate fields and to stay, new pressure on the donors, whatever it takes, do something different. If we just keep doing the same old same old thing nothing will ever change. It’s literally the definition of insanity. In the meantime, I just bought my season volleyball tickets.

A year or two ago Aird (volleyball) looked like toast....now they have a decent team. Odd.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

There are lots of paths out of the basement. I've theorized on some non traditional paths, trying to leverage IU's world class schools, and then just overpay the coaching staff, etc...

But as others have pointed out, the right head coaching hire would elevate us, I'm sure. As long as that coach has the resources to hire a quality assistant staff.

Also...it depends on where you want the path to lead. Consistent B10 title contender? That would take dump trucks filled with money. NIL, coaching, facilities...everything would need a MAJOR raise in funding. AND then it'd take the right coach, and the right staff.

If we're just wanting a consistent lower level bowl type team...

1. Schedule 3 home OOC patsies every year.
2. Find the right HC. My suggestion is a proven, successful, small college coach from somewhere.
3. Overspend on a top level assistant coaching staff.
4. Work, like crazy, to up the NIL money available for football.

In the end...its going to take the school decision makers to decide that its a priority. Until then, I don't see it happening.

We'll have a good football team before we have a good band.

 

[welshman#]

Here we are again….midway through the football season and looking forward to basketball. Hell, I think the volleyball team is showing a lot of promise. We’ve been down this path so many times. I hate it but the fact is that we have a losing football culture. Always have but don’t always have too. It will take time but I feel we need someone to come in and blow-up everything and start over. New locker room signs, new traditions on game day, new ideas to get students and fans out of the tailgate fields and to stay, new pressure on the donors, whatever it takes, do something different. If we just keep doing the same old same old thing nothing will ever change. It’s literally the definition of insanity. In the meantime, I just bought my season volleyball tickets.

Short version: in order to change IU’s football culture, the people with the opportunity, power and resources to actually change IU’s football culture will probably need to start facing some consequences for not changing IU’s football culture.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Money.

Need money to hire a better staff

Need donors to step up with money for NIL.

And then when people steal our coaches, we need to do a real search and replace them with good coaches

 

[HoozierDaddy]

I’m just tired of my alma matter sucking in football. It’s just embarrasing that we can’t even be mediocre with seemingly all the resources available. Don’t we split B1G money equally? That should be more than enough to be competitive. We are literally 33 point underdogs this week within our own conference. That’s not OK. I consider myself to be a reasonably smart person with a degree from Kelley School. I‘ve been a season ticket holder for 20+ years with the only return a Gator Bowl that we should have won but couldn’t even cover an onside kick. I’m really starting to question my intelligence.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Look to the AAC or Conference USA. Those are teams that are at IUs level and where this program needs to be competing…the conference has simply outgrown IU. The university needs to come to that realization.

 

[Sobchak_Security]

Here we are again….midway through the football season and looking forward to basketball. Hell, I think the volleyball team is showing a lot of promise. We’ve been down this path so many times. I hate it but the fact is that we have a losing football culture. Always have but don’t always have too. It will take time but I feel we need someone to come in and blow-up everything and start over. New locker room signs, new traditions on game day, new ideas to get students and fans out of the tailgate fields and to stay, new pressure on the donors, whatever it takes, do something different. If we just keep doing the same old same old thing nothing will ever change. It’s literally the definition of insanity. In the meantime, I just bought my season volleyball tickets.

Would take institutional change, starting with an AD who knows what a successful big time college football program looks like. Would need support from the President and BOT that would allow freedom to do all that is necessary to get everything in place to support a big time winner. Only then could you land the coach to lead it IMO

 

[Al Bino]

Would take institutional change, starting with an AD who knows what a successful big time college football program looks like. Would need support from the President and BOT that would allow freedom to do all that is necessary to get everything in place to support a big time winner. Only then could you land the coach to lead it IMO

I have asked this question before and ,IMO, never received a good answer.

I agree with the comment on the AD but why is support of the Pres and BOT needed? Or is that support just a bonus?
Doesn't the AD have complete control over the athletic department as long as he doesn't do anything wrong?
I think if I was AD, I would appreciate the Pres and BOT NOT putting their 2 cents in.
Or does the AD have to clear things with the Pres?
How is the power dynamics in this situation?

 

[82hoosier]

I have asked this question before and ,IMO, never received a good answer.

I agree with the comment on the AD but why is support of the Pres and BOT needed? Or is that support just a bonus?
Doesn't the AD have complete control over the athletic department as long as he doesn't do anything wrong?
I think if I was AD, I would appreciate the Pres and BOT NOT putting their 2 cents in.
Or does the AD have to clear things with the Pres?
How is the power dynamics in this situation?

It sure would have been nice to have a buyout structured for Tom Allen that made a little bit of common sense.

At the peak of Kevin Wilson's success he got a new 6-year contract in 2016 for about $15 million. Tom Allen is going to log his third consecutive season as the worst coach in the Big Ten and right now it's going to cost $20 million dollars to fire him.

 

[ORG]

Here we are again….midway through the football season and looking forward to basketball. Hell, I think the volleyball team is showing a lot of promise. We’ve been down this path so many times. I hate it but the fact is that we have a losing football culture. Always have but don’t always have too. It will take time but I feel we need someone to come in and blow-up everything and start over. New locker room signs, new traditions on game day, new ideas to get students and fans out of the tailgate fields and to stay, new pressure on the donors, whatever it takes, do something different. If we just keep doing the same old same old thing nothing will ever change. It’s literally the definition of insanity. In the meantime, I just bought my season volleyball tickets.

That is easy an easy question to answer . . . WIN GAMES.

The harder question to answer is how does IU win more games.

 

[Rags to Roses]

Along the lines of what Welsh said, people who have power to affect change need to have their compensation, tenure, etc. tied to defined outcomes (e.g. # of wins). Align reward systems with the outcomes you want.

 

[ThreeToMakeTwo]

Was it UAB who dropped their football team, reinstated it and was in a bowl game the second year back?
That guy.

 

[Rags to Roses]

Was it UAB who dropped their football team, reinstated it and was in a bowl game the second year back?
That guy.

Good idea. Unfortunately he retired due to health reasons

 

[Jackskip23]

I have asked this question before and ,IMO, never received a good answer.

I agree with the comment on the AD but why is support of the Pres and BOT needed? Or is that support just a bonus?
Doesn't the AD have complete control over the athletic department as long as he doesn't do anything wrong?
I think if I was AD, I would appreciate the Pres and BOT NOT putting their 2 cents in.
Or does the AD have to clear things with the Pres?
How is the power dynamics in this situation?

The AD effectively and practically serves at the pleasure of the President and, somewhat less directly, the Trustees. The AD has as much power as those two entities decide to give him / her. We saw this in living color when a Trustee intervened and made our AD fire Tom Crean, an action the AD had not wanted to take. The head of the BOT is a former two sport star I Man. They have more than two cents to put in . . . sometimes much more.

 

[ThreeToMakeTwo]

Good idea. Unfortunately he retired due to health reasons

Thank you. Also ‘rats’.

 

[indy1203]

Here we are again….midway through the football season and looking forward to basketball. Hell, I think the volleyball team is showing a lot of promise. We’ve been down this path so many times. I hate it but the fact is that we have a losing football culture. Always have but don’t always have too. It will take time but I feel we need someone to come in and blow-up everything and start over. New locker room signs, new traditions on game day, new ideas to get students and fans out of the tailgate fields and to stay, new pressure on the donors, whatever it takes, do something different. If we just keep doing the same old same old thing nothing will ever change. It’s literally the definition of insanity. In the meantime, I just bought my season volleyball tickets.

Get donors to donate large amounts to the NIL pot designated
for football players only.

 

[Kelly_32]

It starts with an administration all in on winning football and that’s something Indiana has never had.

 

[82hoosier]

That is easy an easy question to answer . . . WIN GAMES.

The harder question to answer is how does IU win more games.

I will add that eeking out an overtime victory against Akron does not help build a winning culture. Nor does canceling a game or series against Louisville.

Yet six wins will buy a one year 5 million extension to Tom Allen's contract. Being a 28 underdog to Ohio State or 35 point underdog to Michigan does not enter into the equation.

The Hoosiers guide to success is based on finding three underperforming non-conference opponent wins and finding three conference victories out of its nine conference games. Again, if Tom Allen can do that he gets another year added to his contract. These lofty goals only add to Indiana's losing culture.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

IU has one of the worst inherent recruiting bases in the country of major schools, and inherent recruiting base over the decades matters.

and the worse the inherent recruiting base, the less chance you have to recruit successfully outside the base.

absolutely nothing the administration can do about that.

attendance is the one thing the administration does have control over.

they are totally apathetic to do anything about attendance other than hope for a miracle as their primary and only strategy..

a full stadium is ten times more important to recruits than locker or weight rooms or any facilities, and the one thing the administration flat refuses to invest so much as a cent in.

I agree with much of what you say. However having been around high school football for over 30 years i would disagree that facilities don't matter, because they do seem to matter to the kids at my school. Yes crowds do matter also. I would be interested to hear some ideas you have for getting fans in seats outside the obvious which we all know the best is a winning product. Living so far away in Florida and coaching on Friday nights it is next to impossible to get to games in Bloomington. And growing up in Shelbyville, there were 8 of us so going to games was not really something affordable and then we also spent many Saturdays going to Franklin games. Any how from what it sounds like is that IU has invested in the stadium but not enough invested in restroom and concessions areas. What else do you see a need to do?

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

It sure would have been nice to have a buyout structured for Tom Allen that made a little bit of common sense.

At the peak of Kevin Wilson's success he got a new 6-year contract in 2016 for about $15 million. Tom Allen is going to log his third consecutive season as the worst coach in the Big Ten and right now it's going to cost $20 million dollars to fire him.

Coming off a season in which he was the National Coach of the Year.

 

[Walt542]

This is an interesting question. I am sure the best sporting minds that Indiana University has, have thought hard about this for decades and have not yet come up with the answer. You suggest making big changes but I would contend that has been tried and with no result. As a matter of fact it has helped lead to making the situation worse. Think of Sam Wyche.

This situation took over 100 years to create. Many people point to one problem or another, I.e. no BOT support, little donor money, little fan interest, poor facilities. All of these things and more are part of the problem and they all add up.

There have been some interesting ideas posted on here. And yes, we would all love to see them try something, but only if it works. Obviously when they try things that do not work we see it all as “same old, same old.”

I certainly do not have an answer, but there are people who are in the position to make decisions that I believe really do want to make IU football successful and they are trying their best. But as we can see, overcoming a century of bad football is a BIG task that has not yet been solved. Sometimes I think the only answer is to drop down to a lower level conference, but that would be a terrible disservice to all the other sports that are competitive in the Big Ten.

I think in the long run, I may never see this question resolved. I have been an IU football fan for over 60 years now. Thankful for a few good seasons once in a while, but have come to the point of very little in expectations. That certainly does not mean I do not enjoy going to games. I continue to hold my season tickets and try to get as much enjoyment out of them as possible. I love the game day atmosphere, etc. But I do not think this problem will be solved in my lifetime, so I have learned to accept it. Do I like it? No. But there is not much I can do other than continuing to support their efforts.

 

[IUNorth]

It sure would have been nice to have a buyout structured for Tom Allen that made a little bit of common sense.

At the peak of Kevin Wilson's success he got a new 6-year contract in 2016 for about $15 million. Tom Allen is going to log his third consecutive season as the worst coach in the Big Ten and right now it's going to cost $20 million dollars to fire him.

A thought just hit me...I'm a little slow...

Giving Allen that contract, at that point in time, is the type of investment many of us are clamoring for, right now. He was the NCOY. It was reported he was being courted by other schools. There weren't many people, at the time, that weren't happy and impressed with how we "stepped up".

The problems began very soon after, when we didn't continue to "step up". I think a large part of that problem is Allen. And I think Dolson probably knows that. What's the addage..."You don't throw money at a dead situation?"...something like that. Anyway, our play basically immediately declined. Coordinators left, players left. Dolson wasn't happy with Allen, or his management of the program. But it was too soon to move on him, at that point. I think a couple years down the road, with the continued sub par performance everyone has seen...and the mindset should be different.

Dolson needs to figure out how to convince IU admin to raise the budget for the entire football coaching staff. Part of that convincing needs to be absorbing Allen's contract...and letting him go at the end of this season.

With that increased money...go get someone like James Madison's coach as the HC (for similar money to what Allen makes). Then scour high major football and the NFL for bright young minds to fill your coordinator and downline assistant staff. Tell the new coach he will have a lot of input on the staff, but not complete control over it.

This would actually be a similar "step up" to what IU showed when they gave Allen his last contract. Other things would need to be done, but this would be a bold step in the right direction. They've been bold before, they need to do it again.

 

[jaygyure]

Coming off a season in which he was the National Coach of the Year.

Yeah people forget this. I hate the buyout as much as anyone. What would people have thought of Dolson if we had a great year, had national coach of year and that that coach left because we didn't pony up the money to keep him. I do believe there were schools that came calling after Allen's Coach of the Year campaign. What would people have said about our "commitment to football" if he doesn't pay to extend coach that is national coach of year and has just completed the 2 best years of IU football in a generation? I was never a huge Tom Allen fan but I would have never imagined that we would drop so far so fast. The big error is that we didn't realize the success was because of DeBoer and Wommack and not Allen

 

[ElMeson]

You can’t turnover an entire roster every 2 years from the portal. CTA based a culture of a program on LEO. Love it or hate it, it’s the foundation of his program and he obviously believes this. Now you’re asking kids to come in who have left another school that probably had a different blueprint and not to mention learn a new offense or defense. A few each year is one thing but to ask an entire roster to change is another.

It starts with recruiting, it has to get better. We simply need more NIL deals and collective money. There’s not an easy fix because big donors are not going to support a losing team. It’s a bad vicious cycle to be in and the real solution may rest on hiring a coach who has a name that boosters, alumni and players resonates

 

[Baller23Boogie]

It starts with an administration all in on winning football and that’s something Indiana has never had.

This.

We're going to continue to hire and fire coaches for the foreseeable future until the Indiana administration gets serious and puts football first when it comes to athletics at Indiana.

Until then, it doesn't matter what we do because whoever is the head coach is always going to be behind the 8 ball.

 

[Sobchak_Security]

I have asked this question before and ,IMO, never received a good answer.

I agree with the comment on the AD but why is support of the Pres and BOT needed? Or is that support just a bonus?
Doesn't the AD have complete control over the athletic department as long as he doesn't do anything wrong?
I think if I was AD, I would appreciate the Pres and BOT NOT putting their 2 cents in.
Or does the AD have to clear things with the Pres?
How is the power dynamics in this situation?

Because everyone in the organization has to be pulling in the same direction. Everyone needs to be on board, on all levels, with a commitment to winning.

 

[Jackskip23]

This is an interesting question. I am sure the best sporting minds that Indiana University has, have thought hard about this for decades and have not yet come up with the answer. You suggest making big changes but I would contend that has been tried and with no result. As a matter of fact it has helped lead to making the situation worse. Think of Sam Wyche.

This situation took over 100 years to create. Many people point to one problem or another, I.e. no BOT support, little donor money, little fan interest, poor facilities. All of these things and more are part of the problem and they all add up.

There have been some interesting ideas posted on here. And yes, we would all love to see them try something, but only if it works. Obviously when they try things that do not work we see it all as “same old, same old.”

I certainly do not have an answer, but there are people who are in the position to make decisions that I believe really do want to make IU football successful and they are trying their best. But as we can see, overcoming a century of bad football is a BIG task that has not yet been solved. Sometimes I think the only answer is to drop down to a lower level conference, but that would be a terrible disservice to all the other sports that are competitive in the Big Ten.

I think in the long run, I may never see this question resolved. I have been an IU football fan for over 60 years now. Thankful for a few good seasons once in a while, but have come to the point of very little in expectations. That certainly does not mean I do not enjoy going to games. I continue to hold my season tickets and try to get as much enjoyment out of them as possible. I love the game day atmosphere, etc. But I do not think this problem will be solved in my lifetime, so I have learned to accept it. Do I like it? No. But there is not much I can do other than continuing to support their efforts.

A couple of points . . .

Interesting that you referenced Sam Wyche. I think RF actually did a great job with that one (and SW was a flaky guy, in some ways), and Lady Luck blew us out of the water when the Bengals called. Our recruiting was really headed up before that happened (Lorenzo White and Lars Tate were likely Hoosiers, among others, and then he was gone). If you recall, he essentially founded and funded what they called the “12th Man” organization as a means of creating a booster driven fund raising enterprise for football. It floundered after he left, though some modest updates occurred under Mal.

We tried and succeeded again when we hired Hep, who pointedly told us that the Miami-Ohio facilities were better than ours and that he wasn’t coming unless we committed to a much higher standard. Of course, we know about his sad ending and, while I think his legend was a bit embellished, I’m convinced he would’ve made us a winner. He had vision and, most importantly, the ability to get people to come along with him.

Until we find guys like that, we’re not moving up.

 

[DANC]

A year or two ago Aird (volleyball) looked like toast....now they have a decent team. Odd.

Coaching makes all the difference

 

[Jssanto]

I think most of the answers above are correct. I also suspect the top of the pyramid is the BOTs. If they don’t push nothing will ever happen.
If I were to rank factors:
1. Money.
1A. NIL money to players.
1B. Money to coaches. I do like the idea of identifying a young coach from a small program.
1.C. Money for facilities. Private weight room, trainer areas, private football only residence areas.
2. More money to spend somewhere.

 

[vesuvius13]

It will take IU doing things in a different manner when he comes to hiring people. I think Dolson was hired over Kraft was because basketball is still king at IU. People in positions, inside and outside the school, to make a difference aren't football people and that needs to change. Maybe it will take a coach those people believe in who demands the changes needed to get the program changed and the IU goes along with him.

I think IU is comfortable with coach Allen won't embarrass the school. It might be more effective to spend money to bring in the best coordinators with coach Allen as he has shown he can succeed with them. IU then has the safety of coach Allen and give him the tools to win. I do worry with coach Allen so concerned with players that fit in that he won't take reasonable chances on players. I wasn't able to choose my players but with strong leadership almost everyone of my players fit in with what we were doing. There are ways to get players to understand what you require of them. I wanted players to care about every part of our team. One thing I did was have our guy that worked on the fields and the stadium including locker rooms. I had him in and talked to the team about his job so they understood it wasn't just about them. I threw a wadded up piece paper on the floor and told Glen to pick it up [I was hoping he would say hell no but instead he started to pick it up. I told the team it would be wrong for me to do that but for them to throw used athletic tape on the floor was doing the same thing to Glen. The end result is the team organized to clean the locker room to make Glen's job easier, getting our mops and brooms to get it done. You have to find ways to get through to players and I think coach Allen can do that but he has to have enough courage to fail now and then on players.

The truth is, there is no easy way to change IU's approach to football.

 

[IUNorth]

I think most of the answers above are correct. I also suspect the top of the pyramid is the BOTs. If they don’t push nothing will ever happen.
If I were to rank factors:
1. Money.
1A. NIL money to players.
1B. Money to coaches. I do like the idea of identifying a young coach from a small program.
1.C. Money for facilities. Private weight room, trainer areas, private football only residence areas.
2. More money to spend somewhere.

Not sure if the JMU guy is young or not. And have no clue whether he'd want it, or if he'd actually be a good candidate. He just has an impressive record overall...has coached there for more than a year or two...and from the little I read about him, is regarded as being pretty innovative offensively.

Get a guy like him...then some offensive people from his staff, but maybe a coordinator that you could pull from one of the more dynamic NFL offensive systems like Miami, LARams, KC... Then similar concept for the defensive side of the ball...maybe try to get DC from the Niners or Lions coaching tree...or if the college route, someone that's been below Brett Venebles for a few years that would be looking to step up in to a DC role.

Don't worry about the coordinator positions being "spring board". If it is, its because they're good. Go find the next good one. Don't allow the HC to limit searches, or promote from within. That's how programs die these days. Look at the mighty Clemson program. One of Swinney's issues is he only in the last year or so went outside his own program to fill position and coordinator jobs. That's hurt him on the field and in recruiting. Meanwhile, guys like Saban and Smart, they go get the best people they can find for their coordinators.

 

[kmathum]

A couple of points . . .

Interesting that you referenced Sam Wyche. I think RF actually did a great job with that one (and SW was a flaky guy, in some ways), and Lady Luck blew us out of the water when the Bengals called. Our recruiting was really headed up before that happened (Lorenzo White and Lars Tate were likely Hoosiers, among others, and then he was gone). If you recall, he essentially founded and funded what they called the “12th Man” organization as a means of creating a booster driven fund raising enterprise for football. It floundered after he left, though some modest updates occurred under Mal.

We tried and succeeded again when we hired Hep, who pointedly told us that the Miami-Ohio facilities were better than ours and that he wasn’t coming unless we committed to a much higher standard. Of course, we know about his sad ending and, while I think his legend was a bit embellished, I’m convinced he would’ve made us a winner. He had vision and, most importantly, the ability to get people to come along with him.

Until we find guys like that, we’re not moving up.

Sam, (had he stayed)), would have been a home run hire. It was just our lousy football luck that the Bengals needed a new coach at that time.

 

[kmathum]

We'll have a good football team before we have a good band.

Really? Is the band that bad?

 

[welshman#]

Not sure if the JMU guy is young or not. And have no clue whether he'd want it, or if he'd actually be a good candidate. He just has an impressive record overall...has coached there for more than a year or two...and from the little I read about him, is regarded as being pretty innovative offensively.

Get a guy like him...then some offensive people from his staff, but maybe a coordinator that you could pull from one of the more dynamic NFL offensive systems like Miami, LARams, KC... Then similar concept for the defensive side of the ball...maybe try to get DC from the Niners or Lions coaching tree...or if the college route, someone that's been below Brett Venebles for a few years that would be looking to step up in to a DC role.

Don't worry about the coordinator positions being "spring board". If it is, its because they're good. Go find the next good one. Don't allow the HC to limit searches, or promote from within. That's how programs die these days. Look at the mighty Clemson program. One of Swinney's issues is he only in the last year or so went outside his own program to fill position and coordinator jobs. That's hurt him on the field and in recruiting. Meanwhile, guys like Saban and Smart, they go get the best people they can find for their coordinators.

Cignetti (current JMU coach) is 62. He took over the program from Mike Houston, who went 37-6 with one natl championship and one runner-upfinish. Houston is 51 and currently trying to rebuild East Carolina.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

And growing up in Shelbyville, there were 8 of us so going to games was not really something affordable

bingo.

IU has literally priced out 80% of the area fanbase, and not just families of 8, but families from 2 to 4 to 8.

IU is literally swimming in money, and the points system along with the fan base's desire for points to apply to basketball tickets gives it unique protection from cannibalizing it's loyal base of points earning fans.

IU could give every IU student free admission to every game for considerably less than the extra $1 mil a yr they just gifted CMW, and those that think free admission for IU students wouldn't bring more students in, or that we don't need more IU students to attend, at flat idiots.

bring back a $1 knothole club for kids through HS in a general admission area, and offer adults a $10 option in a general admission area.

with parking and concessions, it adds up, and would be no worse than revenue neutral.

no points for said promo GA seating, and no guarantees of a seat once demand exceeds supply.

$50 per game after parking and/or concessions from a family we're now getting zero from is a win.

when "winning brings the fans", such promos can be cut off, just as they were back during the original knot hole club.

there are lot of fans in south central Indiana who would love to attend, and flat can't afford the exorbitant prices aimed at the 10%.

and want to attend for the games, not just the social event.

in any other business, having the unsold capacity IU does on a constant basis would mean those in charge of sales would have been terminated a long time ago.