We should’ve never fired Crean

[bailey777]

Davis would have never lasted as long without that title game.

Right but my point is we still had a chance to make a very good hire after Davis. Coaches were still very interested in this job.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

Yep...missed on Matta a couple times, and Stevens as well. In our hiring years though...

2001 (I believe Davis/Treloar were co/coaches during his first year, they made the full time decision after that first season, in 2001)...No clue if we even entertained looking for a coach outside Davis/Treloar...but Billy Donovan was early on at Florida, had been to a Final Four a couple years prior, had won a couple SEC championships. Good god if he had come to IU then...holy cow.

One interesting one is Bill Self. He was hired by Illinois in 2000. He was obviously already hired and preparing for his first Illini season when RMK was fired. And really nothing up to that point indicated the success he'd end up having. But man...just think what IU basketball would be like if IU had found him between his Tulsa and Kansas days. I guess it'd be similar to what he's done at Kansas...cheating aside, that'd have been, would be, a lot of fun.

2001 was also the year Pitino came back to college from the NBA. Our willingness to hire Sampson a few years later shows we were down for some dirty stuff. Maybe former Kentucky dirt was too stinky? Not as many hookers in Bloomington though. And not as many Italian restaurants to have sex in either.

2006...Matta would have been an excellent choice here. We must not have went after him hard, or maybe he was just happy at OSU? He had won NCOY a couple years prior, had won the B10 that year. Tough to pull from another B10 school though. Isn't common.

Billy Donovan here as well maybe? He had an NCAA title season, with his whole roster returning...I'm sure we reached out and he declined. I wonder how hard we pushed though. Hard to think if IU really, really pushed, and backed the Brinks truck up, that he wouldn't have considered it. Its been widely documented that he considered the IU job a couple times in his career.

2008...Matta here as well. First chance during a hiring year to get Stevens, but as I mentioned above, it would have been a little bit of a reach, at the time. Very, very young. Only had coached 1 season at Butler. Probably too risky a move for any AD to have made.

2017... Mark Few I'm sure was reached out to...he had just finished a Final Four year. Well documented that he's turned down all sorts of jobs throughout the years to stay in Spokane. Stevens was well entrenched in NBA ball. Donovan was a couple years removed from college, and doing well in OKC. Matta had just retired for health reasons, so he wasn't an option. Greg Marshall was a hot name. Don't remember what was said about him at the time. Probably dodge a bullet there, personality wise. As I mentioned above, I didn't think Archie was a bad hire at the time.

2021... We tried with Stevens. Not sure if we tried with Donovan. I think the Sampson debacle probably eliminated some names from the list, like Pitino maybe. Drew, as I've been reminded, is an Indiana pariah. As was Bruce Pearl. Not sure if Rick Barnes and/or Jamie Dixon were reached out to. God I'd hope either/both were. As many have pointed out, when Stevens fell through, it seemed like Dolson was pushed to Woodson pretty quickly. That can't ever happen again.

I could be wrong about Pitino, but the message board rumors were he was interested in the job: however, his wife didn't like Bloomington. Could be total BS. Pitino had UK rolling before he left for the Celtics: he could have been there forever.

Billy D would have been a grand slam.

Bill Self's background at Tulsa is similar to Archie's at Dayton, only Self would have been a home run.

If Gregg Marshall wasn't a psycho or at least could have somewhat controlled himself, I think he would have been a great hire. Marshall is the type of guy that nobody would want to be in a knife fight with.

I don't think Mark Few ever wanted to leave Washington.

Rick Majerus is a bit of a psycho and couldn't stay away from the buffets. But, the guy could coach and had Midwest ties. Would have been interesting. The man won at Ball St. with Muncie kids.

Stevens is the one guy that seems like he was born to coach at IU. I don't get it, and I think he is squandering his coaching talents.

 

[Rotonda]

mike Davis was a horrible coach, Treloar coached the finals team, once he left Davis was on a fast decline

He made the NCAA five times at UAB and Texas Southern. I would have taken that at IU.

 

[Zeke7]

I prefer to not look backwards...its too dark and scary. What do we do now?

I hope Dolson is truly factoring in all the new variables and dynamics at play. Its probably not realistic, or even a good idea, to move on from Woody after this season. Only giving a guy, an IU guy at that, 2 years probably sets you back from a program marketability stand point. The best thing he/we can do right now, is support Woody and the team.

TJD is literally giving his body to IU basketball right now. He doesn't need to do it. His basketball career isn't benefitting from it. That demands our respect and admiration. So if nothing else, lets cheer for TJD. He's not soft. He's not a bad leader. He's a bad ass. We're lucky he chose IU. And we're lucky he has stuck with IU despite being HORRIBLY misused in his 4 years. Its really the epitome of what we should all want in an "IU guy".

With regards to the coaching situation...unless a 100% cant miss, homerun guy, lands in your lap...Woody is the guy through next season. I don't think he should have ever been here, and I'm certainly not happy with how its going now that he is here. But thinking bigger, longer term, firing him after only 2 years isn't a viable decision. If Donovan's people call here in a month and say he's done with the NBA and ready to come back to college...that changes the dynamic, and you make that happen. Short of something miraculous like that, pour your support into Woodson.

And spend the next 2 years really fully studying trends in successful college programs, getting a handle on NIL dynamics, transfer dynamics, analytics...etc... So when we do need to make a change, we're ready to make the best possible decision this time. We've sucked, badly, for years. The next hire doesn't have to be a homerun hire, it doesn't have to be an IU guy. It has to be a damn smart, damn good basketball coach. Find that person, and he'll navigate the IU machine forward, ahead of where we've been in many years. We just need a good basketball coach again.

I agree with what U said about Trayce! He has been battling thru Pain since He Fell ! He is not Soft! I would like to know Why Duncomb, Gunn, Banks even Leal has not been given a Fair chance and Kopp is still playing Extended Minutes! In 29 minutes 0 Rebounds and 5 Points! Does Anyone really think that Anyone of the Guys mentioned couldn't do Better than that!

 

[bailey777]

He made the NCAA five times at UAB and Texas Southern. I would have taken that at IU.

Even if Davis was a bad coach as Kurt claims he surronded himself with some good assistants which helped him alot. The difference is Woodson is not a good coach and does not have good assistants. He has recruiters as assistants.

 

[go_iu]

Literally can’t believe I’m typing that.

His worst year with a fully rostered team was 7-11.

2 titles in 4 years.

I’m dumbfounded today. You can recover from 1 bad hire but 2 back to back really kills a progra

Blasphomy, I'll be glad when we fix this. I thought their last idea was somewhat genius, but it's taken a death spiral. In no way would I want Crean back though, if we're going to suck we might as well suck without his weirdo antics

 

[go_iu]

He made the NCAA five times at UAB and Texas Southern. I would have taken that at IU.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I had a relative that's just a casual fan tell me in like 2005 that we'd rue the day we fired MD and should let him grow into the job. Ii's difficult for me to admit, but that might have been prescient. He ran it clean and could recruit, but he needed more coaching help in the beginning.

 

[MMM1992]

Should have hired Alford versus Crean.

 

[ams66]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I had a relative that's just a casual fan tell me in like 2005 that we'd rue the day we fired MD and should let him grow into the job. Ii's difficult for me to admit, but that might have been prescient. He ran it clean and could recruit, but he needed more coaching help in the beginning.

Well is Mike Davis anyone we'd look at now? He's been coaching since he was at IU as far as I know, and he's not grown into a top college coach as far as I'm aware.

That said, in retrospect it's hard to argue that we'd be in a worse place today if we had just kept him.

 

[PeegsObserver1]

That was certainly a daunting time for many fans of Indiana, had they just not been daunted than we certainly wouldn’t have faltered; Tom Crean would still be with old IU.

 

[82hoosier]

Take a look at what Creandid to the Georgia program before he was fired.

 

[Rotonda]

Since some love to use the injury excuse so much in Davis last year we made the 2nd round of the of NCAA and DJ White wast out the whole year injured. Remember that was suppose to be a top 10 team before White went down. He finished 4th in conference his last two seasons at IU and still basically got fired still . That is not too shabby if you compare it to the coaches we have had since him. He made the ncaa four of six years and won seven NCAA games. He was mostly run out of town because whe was not Bob Knight and expectations were still sky high. I do not think anyone who followed knight would have lasted unless it was like a Billy Donovan type.

We have now not finished above 9th in six years.

And if the truth is told (and yes as President of the Florida Suncoast IUAA, I witnessed some of this and was shocked by the racism that existed), he was also fired, I really believe but hope I am wrong, somewhat because of the color of his skin and because his speech impediment prevented him from being a good public speaker. I coached basketball in Ohio and did well and found Mike to be helpful and supportive and a great guy especially when compared to his predecessor.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I had a relative that's just a casual fan tell me in like 2005 that we'd rue the day we fired MD and should let him grow into the job. Ii's difficult for me to admit, but that might have been prescient. He ran it clean and could recruit, but he needed more coaching help in the beginning.

I appreciate your agreement. Most folks just yell at me and believe me. That is not fun.

 

[Rotonda]

Even if Davis was a bad coach as Kurt claims he surronded himself with some good assistants which helped him alot. The difference is Woodson is not a good coach and does not have good assistants. He has recruiters as assistants.

I appreciate your backup and completely agree.

 

[welshman#]

It would not have changed much. We still had a chance to make an incredible hire after Davis and we chose Sampson over Beilein. That is where it went off tracks. You hire Beilein we are talking about several final fours now we would have made.

Greenspan wanted Beilein but the Admin didn’t want to pay the buyout to WVU.

The strongest advocates for Sampson were the then-university president and one of the trustees IIRC

 

[VanPastorMan]

Cleaned what up? This is a weird narrative for me I don’t understand. Do you think houston is full of rapers and felons? Who is worse houston or msu players? Is the MSU program something to be ashamed of? Would every recruit that Sampson had need cleaned up? I don’t get it.

Houston has been historically shady. They had a guy named Guy Lewis who was very shady. So Calvin has a good home with like minded people.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

OJ went on to be a killer

Sorry, can't resist. Too easy.

 

[IndyAuthor]

There's some bizarre revisionist history going on in this thread. IU did not fire Mike Davis. Davis resigned. And he wasn't forced out. He met with President Herbert before the UCONN game when the team's record was 13-5 (5-3 in the Big Ten) to discuss his departure. They met later to finalize the payout. After the meeting, he basically checked out and they lost 5 in a row. LINK He may very well have been if he hadn't resigned. Or, if he hadn't checked out, maybe they don't have the 5 game slide. We'll never know.

Also, had IU not turned Sampson in, they were on their way to losing scholarships in year 3 and/or 4 of his tenure due to the APR rules (have you forgotten all the F's?). That was another hole Crean had to dig out of when he got here.

 

[bailey777]

Is Woodson the next Patrick Ewing? Ewing another former player with no college experience brought into a program to bring back the glory days. Very simliair situation to Woodson. Looks like should have easily been fired after the third year but since he is a legend they gave him six years.

2017–18	Georgetown	15–15	5–13	8th
2018–19	Georgetown	19–14	9–9	T–3rd	NIT First Round
2019–20	Georgetown	15–17	5–13	T–8th
2020–21	Georgetown	13–13	7–9	8th	NCAA Division I Round of 64
2021–22	Georgetown	6–25	0–19	11th
2022–23	Georgetown	5–13	0–7

 

[outside shooter]

Crean in the era of the transfer portal was sure to be an unmitigated disaster, as Georgia became.

In his last years here, recruiting was going downhill, in-state coaches didn't want to send their kids there. There was no defensive strategy and no roster-building strategy (and I'm not claiming that this has improved).

Fast forward to now, and even the kids who had signed on the dotted line for Cream, showed up, and found that they had been sold a false bill of goods, could suddenly find their way out the door.

 

[steelyvan]

Mark White actually has Georgia competitive again.