i was concerned when that happened, but many observers dismissed it. They had many justifications as to why Iu lost and weren’t concerned about coaching. Should that ever happen?
Was the IPFW loss last year an omen of things to come?
- Thread starter Let 'er Fly
- Start date
They weren't ready to play.
John Beilein was 5-13, 9-9, and 7-11 in the conference going into his 4th season at Michigan. After starting with 3 wins against lower competition, he then drops 2 back to back including a loss to UTEP to sit at 3-2.
Imagine the disdain at that point. Then they went on a winning streak to close the noncon season, only to then lose 7 of the first 8 Big Ten games.
At that point in 2011, there could not have been any defense of his record in the Big Ten. A fan could not have made a strong case to keep him, and I'm sure most wanted him fired then and there, or probably earlier.
Even after three years of 1st, 4th, and 1st in the conference, he then fell to 9th and 8th in consecutive years. That is, he had had only 3 good seasons out of 9.
Since then, Beilein has won 26, 33, and now sit on a 20-2 record and a phenomenal year. He is safe now. He will retire there. But it was close. And honestly, I don't think he would have lasted at IU.
The point of all of this: Miller needs more time and he needs a healthy team
John Beilein was 5-13, 9-9, and 7-11 in the conference going into his 4th season at Michigan. After starting with 3 wins against lower competition, he then drops 2 back to back including a loss to UTEP to sit at 3-2.
Imagine the disdain at that point. Then they went on a winning streak to close the noncon season, only to then lose 7 of the first 8 Big Ten games.
At that point in 2011, there could not have been any defense of his record in the Big Ten. A fan could not have made a strong case to keep him, and I'm sure most wanted him fired then and there, or probably earlier.
Even after three years of 1st, 4th, and 1st in the conference, he then fell to 9th and 8th in consecutive years. That is, he had had only 3 good seasons out of 9.
Since then, Beilein has won 26, 33, and now sit on a 20-2 record and a phenomenal year. He is safe now. He will retire there. But it was close. And honestly, I don't think he would have lasted at IU.
The point of all of this: Miller needs more time and he needs a healthy team
Fair point. Beilein has a bit more of a track record turning programs around but let’s hope Archie is the man. Perhaps there was just something in the water last year and this and the next few years we’ll not see such losses. Would love to see it.
Iu was about 2 games away last year- Wisconsin, OSU, Rutgers... any of those.
Beilein's squads couldn't defend. IU rolled them all the time.
I only make the point because what happened to this team in January is so out of the ordinary that i don't know that it can't be written up to circumstance. And also, if the fan base doesn't give Miller more time he will fail for sure.
Beilen did it at West Virginia in a real conference not the pathetic Atlantic 10
Even worse was the Indiana State loss at home by 30.
I said it then but I was quickly quieted by TMP, Taz, Jimbo, Hondo, Al Bino, and so many others in the cult telling me to shut up and don’t believe my eyes. They assured me Archie is elite and will be here 30+ years winning multiple titles. Never mind the warning signs...full speed ahead!
I said it then but I was quickly quieted by TMP, Taz, Jimbo, Hondo, Al Bino, and so many others in the cult telling me to shut up and don’t believe my eyes. They assured me Archie is elite and will be here 30+ years winning multiple titles. Never mind the warning signs...full speed ahead!
For all the people bitching: Name me ONE other team with a roster matching ours AS IT CURRENTLY IS that has done better. Seriously.
Listen, I get the “we don’t play hard all the time”; frustrates me, too. But tell me how Archie is supposed to fix it? Serious question.
Just in Big Ten...
Purdue, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Rutgers, OSU, Nebraska...all above us. And all with far less talent.
Give it up man...we’re below RUTGERS. They don’t have 3 players who would even make our team. And only 1 who would start for us.
Get a clue.
So, your point is he took over a better constructed roster? Freshmen back courts struggle in the B10. Teams with 2 elite scorers and nothing else with consistency don't win a lot of games in the B10. Teams with massive injury problems seem to struggle in the B10. Archie didn't build the first 3 classes of the current roster. Even the mighty Coach K took 3 years to turn Duke into a competitive team: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Krzyzewski
Patience, young one. Holtmann isn't struggling at OSU this year because he can't coach...
Patience, young one. Holtmann isn't struggling at OSU this year because he can't coach...
Beilein hired a new defensive coach after the 2016(or 2015?) season and turned over the defense. It’s one of the main reasons why Michigan has been so good the last 3 seasons. They are currently 2nd in scoring defense. If, Archie, is going to make it I think he needs to hire an assistant who specializes on offensive.
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Why don't you list the recruiting rankings of those teams versus ours in the players still on our team? List the experience level of their backcourt (vs 2 freshman and a Sophomore). Go into depth on their injury problems. Tell me how long each coach has been there. Wait? It isn't as simple as wins and losses when judging results? People on here are acting like they expected a perfect season (and the same bs has been pulled for LITERALLY every loss or game they struggled at any point during a win). Match your expectations with the reality of the B10 being really good 1-14, this year. Penn State beat Virginia Tech, but is winless in conference. What does that tell you? IU has wins over two CURRENT top 15 teams...
Hold on. Before the season you would have clowned on anyone who said IU would finish10th or worse in the Big Ten and miss the NCAA tourney. Almost everyone (including myself and I assume you) thought we would end up at least top 5 in the conference. Now, almost every team has more talent than us? All Archie had to do was beat Nebraska at home and win at a Rutgers and could have still put together a solid season. We didn’t and Archie is responsible for it.
Pretty sure a lot of coaches do the same or have essentially a defensive or offensive coordinator. It's the same reason the HC is rarely the lead coordinator, because there is too much else to focus on. I've got to be honest. The people on here bitching the most are very obviously the ones who have never had coaching experience on any level. You've got to walk before you can run, and building takes time in a non-professional sport. End of story. I can't say you can't make any judgements on Archie yet, but the bottom line is: this is a very young team that isn't his team yet. Give it time. Even Coach K took 3 years to turn Duke around. Comparing to coaches who inherited loaded rosters doesn't help.
These teams have far less talent? You need to get a clue.
They were right to tell you to STFU.
People like you act like the realists expected a perfect season. We didn’t. But we didn’t expect this mockery either. This is a complete train wreck for how much talent we have.
The same people who were calling top 3-4 in the conference and a tourney run before the year are now trying to force feed us this nonsense that we have no talent. It’s pathetic. And it’s identical to what happened with Crean.
You were another one. Now your ego has been crushed after you’ve been proven so wrong.
For you the honeymoon was once the instant he was hired by Glass. You're one of the posters here that relish every loss so you can rip on Glass. You're probably excited for the game today thinking of how bad they'll probably lose.
At this point every IU fan who genuinely cares about being elite again should be rooting for losses.
I don’t have to hope for anything. As long as things stay the same IU will continue to be bad in football and basketball. I only dislike Glass because he hasn’t done a good job. I have no predisposition to disliking him.
There you go again making crap up. Just because people think your constant use of hyperbole, slippery slopes of impending certain doom, exaggerations and lies makes you completely full of shite has nothing to do with basketball - it has everything to do with you being completely FOS and your willingness to go as low as lying to try to win an argument you are not knowledgeable enough to even participate in.
You are by far the worst poster to ever plague this board.
You know absolutely nothing about the game, except what a common idiot fan knows and worse you are unwilling to learn.. but still won't STFU.
Coach Dunning Kruger as an apt and perfect nickname for you. It epitomizes the effect in it's most literal term.
.
Like and dislike are conditions that pass as reasoning on a Justin Bieber fan board with smitten and besotted 13 year old girls but have no value in an adult conversation. WGAFF what anyone likes or dislikes.. what you know is the only thing of value.
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Yeah, no. That day may one day come...and it's been here before...but we're not at that point with Miller. Let's talk after year 4.
Did you really think we'd have the roster we have RIGHT NOW before the season started?
I didn't. I'm sure Archie didn't, either.
He has no clue who are actually on those rosters. He just sees the name on the front.
I'll give him Rutgers, that is true we are more talented.
I might even give him Purdue as even. Edwards is miles better than Romeo, but they don't have a Morgan. The rest of their specialty players are better than ours. Cline is a better shooter. Eastern and Smith cancel each other out, both struggling sophomores. Haarms and Williams destroy Davis, Moore, Fitzner. Even Eifert is better than a hobbled McRoberts in the battle of the walk ons.
I'm assuming he has never heard of Daniel Oturu, Dupree McBrayer, and Isaiah Washington. All ranked higher than anyone on our team except Romeo for Minnesota. They still have a junior Coffey (their Romeo) and Murphy (their Morgan).
He probably has no clue of the Iowa Barnstormers aau program that is one of the best in the country, and how many of those Iowa farm boy AAU guys are playing this year as four star prospects. Garza, Bohannon, Wisekamp, Connor Mac, Cook, Moss. Tyler Cook is better than everyone on our team except maybe Morgan.
He probably has no clue who Nate Riviers is for Wisconsin. FYI he's Happ's replacement. A high four star kid, one of their highest recruits at Wisconsin now playing alongside Happ. You know him right? First team, high candidate for POY.
There is a reason why the big ten is considered the deepest conference this year. There aren't any superstar teams but there aren't any roll overs. Even Illinois has a five star on it (but yeah, they are pretty dry behind him).
Totally ridiculous because if you care about IU you would want the to win games but guys like you get off on being negative.
Yea, sorry, I hit the wrong post to reply to .. it was intended to go to the ignorance filled fool known as @fpeaugh
I'm assuming the wrong quote got brought on? lol
I know.
Davis was supposed to be rounding into form by now.
Who knows what Thompson and Hunter was going to give us. I do know that Thompson is a big, dude with a football mentality that helped lead his AAU Howard Pulley team to multiple AAU championships. He also dominated during the scrimmage, much more than Romeo, much more than anyone. That's all we've seen so who knows how big his loss really was...but we need active bigs that can hit three's in the worst possible way right now.
Who knows on Hunter. He was highly regarded as a six seven slasher. At a minimum I would think he'd been able to help during the times that Romeo and or Smith took plays off.
Our guards would still be a mess. Romeo still probably couldn't shoot so we'd still be pissed but...those guys at full I believe would have definitely helped.
We just need to realize that this board is made up of some posters who will never look at facts but only think with their emotions. N matter how many facts you put out there will be some posters who will never see those facts because they don't want to see them. There some who will never be happy with anything that happens because they will always be able to find something to bitch about.
You know what RIF means? You know - Reading Is Fundamental?
This is what I said:
"AS IT CURRENTLY IS" - what part of that do you not understand? I even put it in ALL CAPS.
You want to claim those teams have less than what IU CURRENTLY has? Ok - Here's a breakdown:
Purdue
Edwards, Carsen – 6-1 200 lbs JR, Unanimous 1st team All American
Eifert, Grady 6-6 220 lbsSR
Cline, Ryan 6-6 195 lbs SR
Williams, Trevion 6-9 280lbs FR (184)
Eastern, Nojel 6-6 220 lbs SO
Boudreaux, Evan 6-8 220 lbs Grad Transfer
Haarms, Matt 7-3 250 lbs SO
Wheeler, Aaron 6-9 200lbs RS FR
Stefanovic, Sasha 6-4 195 lbs FR (274)
Hunter Jr., Eric 6-3 170 lbs FR (278)
Wisconsin
Ethan Happ – 6-10237 lbs RS SR, 1st team All American
Davison, Brad 6-3 206 lbs SO
Trice, D'Mitrik 6-0 187 lbs RS SO
Iverson, Khalil 6-5 217 lbs SR
Reuvers, Nate 6-11 240 LBS SO
Ford, Aleem 6-8 220 lbs RS SO
Pritzl, Brevin 6-3 198 lbs RS JR
King, Kobe 6-4 203 lbs RS FR (433)
Iowa
Cook, Tyler 6-9 250 lbs JR
Garza, Luka 6-11 245 lbs SO
Wieskamp, Joe 6-6 205 lbs FR (579)
Bohannon, Jordan 6-1 185 lbs JR
Moss, Isaiah 6-5 208 lbs RS JR
Baer, Nicholas 6-7 218 lbs RS SR
Kriener, Ryan 6-9 255 lbs JR
McCaffery, Connor 6-5 205 lbs RS FR
Pemsl, Cordell 6-8 230 lbs JR
Dailey, Maishe 6-7 200 JR
Minnesota
Coffey, Amir 6-8 210 lbs JR
McBrayer, Dupree 6-5 195 lbs SR
Murphy, Jordan 6-7 250 lbs SR
Kalscheur, Gabe 6-4 200 lbs FR (603)
Oturu, Daniel 6-10 225 lbs FR (445)
Curry, Eric 6-9 240 lbs RS SO
Washington, Isaiah 6-1 195 lbs SO
Stockman, Matz 7-0 245 lbs RS SR
Rutgers
Geo Baker 6-4 180 lbs SO
Eugene Omoruyi 6-7 240 lbs JR
Montez Mathis 6-4 200 lbs FR (432)
Ron Harper Jr. 6-6 230 lbs FR (389)
Shaq Carter 6-9 245 lbs JR
Peter Kiss 6-5 190 lbs SO
Myles Johnson 6-10 255 lbs FR (323)
Caleb McConnell 6-6 190 lbs FR (239)
Shaquille Doorson 7-0 275 lbs Grad Student
Issa Thiam 6-10 190 lbs JR
OHIO STATE
Wesson, Kaleb 6-9 270 lbs SO
Jackson, C.J. 6-1 175 lbs SR
Muhammad, Luther 6-3 185 lbs FR (561)
Wesson, Andre 6-6 220 lbs JR
Young, Kyle 6-8 205 lbs SO
Washington Jr, Duane 6-3 190 lbs FR (344)
Woods, Keyshawn 6-3 205 lbs Gr Transfer
Jallow, Musa 6-5 200 lbs SO
Now, Compare those rosters to Indiana
Langford, Romeo 6-6 215 lbs FR (678)
Morgan, Juwan 6-8 232 lbs SR
Smith, Justin 6-7 227 lbs SO
Durham, Aljami 6-4 181 lbs SO
Phinisee, Rob 6-1 182 lbs FR (471)
Green, Devonte 6-3 185 lbs JR
Davis, De'Ron 6-10255 lbs JR
Fitzner, Evan 6-10 225 lbs Gr Transfer
Moore, Clifton 6-10 230 lbs SO
Forrester, Jake 6-8 218 lbs FR (38)
Anderson, Damezi 6-7 215 lbs FR (174)
Now, I KNOW what you're going to say: "BUT . . . BUT, INDIANA HAD TWO PLAYERS ON THE PRESEASON ALL BIG 10 TEAM!!!" . . . NFS, Sherlock. You think the voters back then would've picked IU to finish in the top 5 of the conference KNOWING they would not have Jerome Hunter and Race Thompson for the ENTIRE year (at least so far with Race), that with the rash of injuries to Devonte, Zach, DeRon, Phin, Al . . . that we'd just magically be able to overcome that?
I put in parenthesis the FRESHMAN minutes above on each team. Rutgers is the only other team with near as many of freshmen / young players in key roles.
But they also have something IU SORELY lacks - inside depth. You sub out Morgan or Smith, you bring in Moore or Forrester. Where's your bulk? Against Rutgers we were doing good - until we got in foul trouble and had to sub. We brought 6-8 218 lb freshman Forrester in for 6-8 232 lb Sr Morgan; Rutgers subs 6-10 255 lb freshman Johnson for 7-0 275 lbs Grad Student Doorson. And they still had 6-9 245 Carter avaialble, also. The majority of the teams you mention have VETERANS - look at what IU has in upperclassmen. Morgan, an injured Davis, a dope-smoking Green. You don't think that matters?
"Get a clue" You are a real dumb shit, you know that? CDK fits you to a T.
Thankfully, I wasn’t on here for Creans first 3 years. The excuses for Archie are bizarre. I understand not wanting to fire him and giving up on him like myself. However, at least acknowledge he’s been terrible at IU so far.
I really wish we could have seen how well the team had done if we had ALL our players. Even some of the players we have now have missed time due to injury. It has been a weird year in that regard.
