Couldn't the opposite be true in that you shouldn't go on live TV without a deal signed?
Trump Zelensky today.....
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Couldn't the opposite be true in that you shouldn't go on live TV without a deal signed?
Point to the part of the transcript where Zelenskyy said he wouldn't sign the agreement. I can't find it. He said before and after the shitshow that he would sign it.
Expecting some security guarantees are in the final deal is only natural. I damn sure wouldn't sign a final agreement that didn't have them.
So you think that the US is not going to protect any investments in Ukraine?
That's OK - I know I'm right!
A question for you. Where did you get your quotes from? The quote from Vance and Zelenskyy were wrong. The year was 2014 not 2013. Here's the actual quote from the video I watched and the correct transcript:
Vance: For four years, the United States of America, we had a president who stood up at press conferences and talked tough about Vladimir Putin, and then Putin invaded Ukraine and destroyed a significant chunk of the country. The path to peace and the path to prosperity is, maybe, engaging in diplomacy. We tried the pathway of Joe Biden, of thumping our chest and pretending that the president of the United States’ words mattered more than the president of the United States’ actions. What makes America a good country is America engaging in diplomacy. That’s what President Trump is doing.
Zelenskyy: Okay, he occupied our parts, big parts of Ukraine, part of East and Crimea, so he occupied it in 2014. So, during a lot of years, I’m not speaking about just Biden, but those time was President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now President Trump and, God bless, now President Trump will stop him. But during 2014, nobody stopped him. He just occupied and took. He killed people, you know? What the contact line -
Then he was cut off by President Trump who said, "2015" and he was wrong. Zelenskyy AND Vance corrected him, though Vance tried to soften it by saying "2014 to 2015" which I thought was subtle ass kissing. The occupation (illegal, by the way) of Crimea happened in 2014, but that's to be expected from a VP to a Prez, I suppose.
Also, what Vance interrupted to say wasn't really responsive to the question to Trump, which the President answered. Vance jumped in after the President to say what he said. The "let me respond to this" part wasn't said because he wasn't responding to the question that Trump had already answered.
This has the video which starts before Vance jumped in and started the shitshow. It includes the transcript of the shitshow too:
What Trump and Zelenskyy said during their heated argument in the Oval Office
"This is going to be great television. I will say that," President Donald Trump said after a minuteslong fight with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy in front of cameras during a visit to the White House.www.pbs.org
Interestingly, this is what Senator Graham said that he said in that bipartisan Senator meeting with Zelenskyy:
I told him this morning, ‘Don’t take the bait. Don’t let the media or anyone else get you into an argument with President Trump.
I don't think Graham knew that it would be Vance to start the argument.
Read Trump and Zelensky’s Fiery Oval Office Exchange
The meeting caps weeks of tense relations between Kyiv and Washington as they wrangle a deal.
foreignpolicy.com
I'll reply later. Back to work.
The sweatsuit is theater.
Better theater would have been for Zelenskyy to show up looking like a President of a country ready to sign a deal that would finally signal and end to this war. As I said, following through on the deal and celebrating it would have been the most important event since the invasion.
Giving the United States skin in the game would have been a much stronger message to Putin than we send with continued supply of ammo and ongoing financial support for the Ukrainian government operations that is probably skimmed anyway.
This is the long game and it was blown.
I certainly never said that, but the President has said more than once we won't put US troops in the country. France and UK both have stepped up to say they would and that's a good thing. The problem with the rare earths thing is that they're mostly or entirely in areas occupied by Russians. If a final agreement clears the Russians out of that area or makes those areas a DMZ at least, we've got the beginning of a decent final deal.
I've seen it and the link I provided not only also has the transcript of that part, but it has the video so you can check for accuracy. It includes the final question and the President's answer before Vance jumped in unexpectedly. I recommend turning on CC.Read Trump and Zelensky’s Fiery Oval Office Exchange
The meeting caps weeks of tense relations between Kyiv and Washington as they wrangle a deal.
I'll reply later. Back to work.
The President's reaction to that was pure pettiness - it's the same attire he wore when meeting the previous President and when addressing Congress. Surely, you're not going to deny that the President has his pettiness moments.
He should have worn a suit. I suspect he dresses like that to project an image. He wasn’t on a frontline that day. But again he deserves grace for all he’s been through. It’s not worth broachingThe President's reaction to that was pure pettiness - it's the same attire he wore when meeting the previous President and when addressing Congress. Surely, you're not going to deny that the President has his pettiness moments.
Well, you are the guy who criticized Crimson Tide because of uniform mistakes. Is that petty?The President's reaction to that was pure pettiness - it's the same attire he wore when meeting the previous President and when addressing Congress. Surely, you're not going to deny that the President has his pettiness moments.
It’s worth remembering that Zelensky is an actor, like a literal actor. He’s theatrical. Trump is also theatrical.
So what you get is two people performing theatrics for the cameras.
Absolutely. I can’t tell you how many cases I lost because I had the wrong color tie.
Everything should have been signed and sealed in advance and the meeting should have been delivery
Yet we surround China w tens of thousands of soldiers/ sailors/ airmen and billions of $ worth of military equipment…
Saying the movie was good but noting that there were uniform mistakes any Navy person would catch is criticism of actual uniform mistakes, not pettiness. Ukraine is at war and Zelenskyy has doing what many other leaders in the world did during wartime, wearing a uniform.
Seriously, COH, you seem to have become unable to acknowledge well known President Trump traits - like pettiness. His reaction to Zelenskyy's attire was pure pettiness.
Biden and Netanyahu absolutely hate each other and still looked beyond personal/ policy differences to defeat Hamas, Assad
regime, and Iran.
Now we pause funds because of heated press conferences and fashion choices.
🤮
Oh the suit again. About as dumb a thing to focus on as when Obama wore a brown suit.
Can Musk be trusted since he never wears a suit?
And doesn't know to remove his hat indoors. In America's House no less.
A lot of reasons for our presence in the Indo-Pacific it’s not solely to defend Taiwan, which we don’t even officially recognize.
I’ve frequently called Trump petty.. Calling Zelenskyy a dictator was petty.
Nothing that happened during the meeting was petty. It was deadly serious. Zelenskyy showed up knowing he would not agree. Trump very reasonably expected they would celebrate a deal together. That would have been an important milestone.
Even if Zelensky now comes back, the agreement won’t have the impact it should have. The moment is gone forever.
Zelenskyy’s antics will cost lives.
If Zelenskyy said he was rejecting the deal in that meeting I missed it and haven't found it. He said before and after the meeting that he intended to sign it. I'm not confident that it's true that he rejected it at any point in that meeting. I've only seen that in a couple posts here and from MAGA Twitter Twits.
The bolded part is nonsense and a bit embarrassing given that congressional MAGAs delayed military aid for six months (that cost lives) and President Trump just paused already approved military aid and that will cost lives too.
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How great of a negotiator is Trump if was going to celebrate a deal in front of cameras that hadn't been signed yet?
Please, beyond China and NK, what are those reasons?
We shifted recognition for geopolitical reasons and because of economic reality. All the while, we still sell Taiwan billions in equipment and run exercises with their military.
Trump did not enable the start of the war (Sleepy Joe did), but Trump will clean it up. Zelensky was not ready for peace a week ago (after talking to dem Chris Murphy) but now is. This is what big boy diplomacy looks like. So Biden enables Putin to start the war but then dems complain about method in how Trump ends it. Typical.
Guam is a territory. The Philippines has a mutual defense treaty. Japan and Korean installations are remnants of previous wars and also have treaties.
All of whom should be defended from Chinese predation.
You’ll notice that Taiwan is actually not any of these countries/ territories. It’s a different territory.
Only gone is Ego Man’s glory and Vance’s credibility as a leader.
Petty is Ego Man pausing arms deliveries except that pettiness will cost lives.
You are 2/3s right. We put all those people and assets in Asia to defend Guam, the Phillipines, and Taiwan from China. Plus Japan, SK, Australia, New Zealand etc al. That list likely includes Vietnam now or soon will.
Not sure why you insist on dying on this hill. The world system as dictated by the US is based defending friends when possible.
Keep in mind, we didn’t have a security deal with Kuwait when the Iraqis rolled in.
I’m not dying on any hill. I’m saying we shouldn’t go to war over Taiwan and that we likely wouldn’t.
You’re the one with the war boner who still thinks we live in a unipolar world.
Oh ok.
"Biden enables Putin"
"Big boy diplomacy" is giving Putin exactly what he wants? Wow. Look at the balls on this administration.
You're seeing people with cognitive dissonance due to Trump's ongoing failure respond by making the failure all the fault of Biden and Z. It's simply easier for them to shift the blame than it is to admit they were wrong about Trump.
Every President since Reagan, except Trump, has said we will defend Taiwan. President Trump, always the outlier, hasn’t said we will or won’t.
In the meantime INDOPACOM continues to prepare to defend Taiwan if necessary, continues to send US Navy warships on Freedom of Navigation transits through the Strait of Taiwan which the PRC falsely claims as territorial waters, continues to patrol the South China Sea which the PRC falsely claims is their sea, and continually surveil the PRC for unusual military activity. Our military also conducts defense of Taiwan exercises with Taiwan’s military. The PRC is convinced we will defend Taiwan. If President Trump ever says we won’t it sets the stage for war.
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