Trump Zelensky today.....

[Ohio Guy]

Sorry if this has already been posted here - I did scan some of this thread, but didn't see it mentioned.

TASS, the Russian state media was in the Oval Office for yesterday's meeting. And they weren't on the approved list to be there.

Nevermind the fact that the AP and Reuters weren't invited...how does Russian state media gain access to the Oval Office for that meeting? I'm not going to speculate, but given how things went, that's pretty f*#ked up.

 

[Lucy01]

Sorry if this has already been posted here - I did scan some of this thread, but didn't see it mentioned.

TASS, the Russian state media was in the Oval Office for yesterday's meeting. And they weren't on the approved list to be there.

Nevermind the fact that the AP and Reuters weren't invited...how does Russian state media gain access to the Oval Office for that meeting? I'm not going to speculate, but given how things went, that's pretty f*#ked up.

You never cared what Biden did, why do care now.

 

[Indyhorn]

No. I meant...WTF are you trying to say. Just say it. No cryptic crap. Geez...are incapable of having a discussion?

How did you graduate IU with no willingness to do any research? In any case the U.S. Senate Intelligence committee then Republican-controlled determined that Russia did assist Trump campaign in 2016. If you look at final report in appendix there is a photo of Trump and a young girl. Trump had to cut off Ukraine. Tulsi had to support Assad. Trump has to bash NATO- then see what Dan Coats said. We will get what we get- I pray it’s my social security!!

 

[Ohio Guy]

You never cared what Biden did, why do care now.

I'm sorry - what? Did Joe Biden sneak Russian state media into the Oval Office yesterday?

This type of vapid reply is why no one takes you seriously.

 

[ribbont]

Sounds like it might have been invented.

However. Who cares. Russia doesn't get to say who is allies with whom. And NATO has expanded several times since 1991. No one has invaded Russia since then. Only the opposite. So who gives a shit about what may or may not have been said 30 years

I linked you the actual transcripts of the conversations I'm 1990 and 1991 from the National Archives. You can believe or not. Doesn't matter to me.

But what matters is Russia and Putin believe promises were made. And as you noted, they have watched for 30 years a slow movement of NATO towards them. Ukraine is their red line.

 

[ribbont]

How did you graduate IU with no willingness to do any research? In any case the U.S. Senate Intelligence committee then Republican-controlled determined that Russia did assist Trump campaign in 2016. If you look at final report in appendix there is a photo of Trump and a young girl. Trump had to cut off Ukraine. Tulsi had to support Assad. Trump has to bash NATO- then see what Dan Coats said. We will get what we get- I pray it’s my social security!!

Maybe try to stick with subject at hand - yesterday's meeting and not post some cryptic message referring to something almost a decade ago. RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! Is that all you got Jan?

Oh, and nice personal insult you threw in there.

 

[IUCrazy2]

O/U on how much longer the US is part of NATO?

4 years is the marker. If we make it to 2028 I think we remain.

We really damaged ourselves from a foreign policy standpoint though. Even if we stay in that isn't getting fixed anytime soon.

 

[mrhighlife]

I linked you the actual transcripts of the conversations I'm 1990 and 1991 from the National Archives. You can believe or not. Doesn't matter to me.

But what matters is Russia and Putin believe promises were made. And as you noted, they have watched for 30 years a slow movement of NATO towards them. Ukraine is their red line.

They don't get to make any red lines other than their actual border. They have no right to anything else. They invaded a sovereign nation. Failed to overtake it. The only solution is they completely pull out.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Why are you validating this nonsense? There is no "but" here. Trump and Vance were wrong, and his sycophants look like idiots in this thread.

Zelensky is going to get his own Munich Agreement shoved down his throat.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Sorry if this has already been posted here - I did scan some of this thread, but didn't see it mentioned.

TASS, the Russian state media was in the Oval Office for yesterday's meeting. And they weren't on the approved list to be there.

Nevermind the fact that the AP and Reuters weren't invited...how does Russian state media gain access to the Oval Office for that meeting? I'm not going to speculate, but given how things went, that's pretty f*#ked up.

Russian state media shouldn’t be in the oval if true.

They’re just as despicable as the AP and Reuters.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Disgusting and shameful. This was a premeditated mugging of Zelensky by Trump and Vance. I don't know about you, but if WWIII broke out tomorrow I'm not pulling for the yanks with people like this in charge. My grandparents America does not exist right now.

If there is one thing your grandparents, the greatest generation as they’re known, would never, ever do.

That would be to align themselves with a Russian autocrat.

The day America aligns themselves with Russia in pursuit of a larger goal will be a sad day for our country indeed.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

AI is wild.

 

[IUclover]

Russian state media shouldn’t be in the oval if true.

They’re just as despicable as the AP and Reuters.

Yikes. What an opinion.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Yikes. What an opinion.

At least you can understand the bias with Russian state media. Reuters and AP have the temerity to pass themselves off as independent, objective news outlets which makes them all the more insidious.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

I'm sorry - what? Did Joe Biden sneak Russian state media into the Oval Office yesterday?

This type of vapid reply is why no one takes you seriously.

I take it seriously, it's a serious jack ass

 

[Ohio Guy]

Russian state media shouldn’t be in the oval if true.

They’re just as despicable as the AP and Reuters.

What about the article I linked makes you think it wouldn’t be true? Trump’s own people went on record saying TASS weren’t on the list and eventually escorted out.

 

[iuwclurker]

My point in asking the question is just to demonstrate the folly of suggesting that something like this would diminish our influence.

Our influence is a product of our economic wherewithal and our military wherewithal. Trump’s antics have no bearing on those.

Got it. Perhaps his press conference antics not, but his tariffs, isolationism and similar could have negative consequences.

This guy thinks so.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

What about the article I linked makes you think it wouldn’t be true? Trump’s own people went on record saying TASS weren’t on the list and eventually escorted out.

The source seems solid. You tend to emote too much, so I take what you post with a grain of salt.

 

[hoot1]

My take is that Vance should have kept his mouth shut (but I understand his being upset) and Z would have been much better served to have just said something to the effect that he appreciated all the US has done to help his country and looked forward to listening to more of President Trumps ideas over lunch...

Evidently (and for good reason) Vance holds a grudge (from Z basically campaigning in PA for slow Joe) and has heard far too much coming from Z in regard to what He wanted..., with little appreciation for what's already been done for him.

Much like what happens here routinely, they started talking past each other with neither grasping what the other was actually saying..., at the point when Z began attempting to give Trump a history lesson on the conflict and warn we would eventually "feel" the force of Russia in the future... (none of which was technically wrong) then Trump became incensed, pointed out that without our $ and gear they'd have been cooked... (which was also accurate) at which point discussions were basically over...

Z is a wartime leader, he's no statesman (personally I admire that about the guy). Trump isn't much of a statesman either, he sees himself as an advocate for the U.S. (and personally that is exactly who I voted for)...

Unfortunately for Z, Trump does have the winning hand in this game... Trump sounds like he wants an immediate Cease Fire and work out from there... Z, understandably, just wants to keep killing Russians to make them pay for what they've done while gaining ground to have more to bargain with at the eventual peace talks...

Z doesn't seem to grasp that the US is the 8,000 pound gorilla 🦍 in this equation and pissing us off could result in his supply line being shut down to a trickle (to a large degree)...

I can see both sides of it... Z doesn't trust Putin for very good reasons and is continuing to push for more security concessions...

We don't seem to appreciate (like) his complete lack of awareness of his circumstances and his seemingly wanting to continue to renegotiate a deal right up to the point of signing it...

76-1, good recap.

When Trump kept telling Zelenski he "Didn't have the cards", I concluded Trump was telling both Zelenski and Putin the U.S. was no longer supporting Ukraine.

By doing this, Trump left Zelenski with a weak hand. Have difficulty thinking this will lead to peace.

Possibly the NATO countries will step up to the plate on behalf of Ukraine thanks to our withdrawal.

Having a hard time seeing peace is just around the corner.

 

[IUclover]

At least you can understand the bias with Russian state media. Reuters and AP have the temerity to pass themselves off as independent, objective news outlets which makes them all the more insidious.

What are your standard news sources?

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

What are your standard news sources?

Depends on the subject.

Politics: Megyn Kelly and Ben Shapiro

Business: Chamath and the Boys

And I read the Journal most mornings although I think I might stop.

 

[ribbont]

They don't get to make any red lines other than their actual border. They have no right to anything else. They invaded a sovereign nation. Failed to overtake it. The only solution is they completely pull out.

And if they don't pull out? What's your solution? You going to commit US troops?

 

[Willdog7]

I’m sorry… did you just refer to MAGA as “sensible Americans”??

Maga are not sensible neither is boot licker Vance.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Got it. Perhaps his press conference antics not, but his tariffs, isolationism and similar could have negative consequences.

This guy thinks so.

Perhaps. There’s a better argument to be made there.

 

[Ohio Guy]

The source seems solid. You tend to emote too much, so I take what you post with a grain of salt

So posting a fact-based article is “emoting.” Got it.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

So posting a fact-based article is “emoting.” Got it.

You’ll have to forgive me, yourself on top of Reuters got my hackles up almost immediately.

Those are two things that I know shouldn’t be trusted regularly.

 

[mrhighlife]

And if they don't pull out? What's your solution? You going to commit US troops?

I don't know. But I sure as hell wouldn't give Russia a free pass or blame the country that got invaded for this.

I not advocating for anything but putting blame where it obviously belongs. Zelensky, Ukraine, NATO, the US, Europe, the entire world except Russia has zero fault in this war. It's 100% on Russia. To say otherwise is either ignorance or straight up propaganda. Is the situation in that region complex? Yes. But it ain't that complex.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Possibly the NATO countries will step up to the plate on behalf of Ukraine thanks to our withdrawal.

Can they? And, if they could, wouldn’t Zelenskyy be going that route?

The UK spends 2.3% of GDP on defense these days. Germany 2.12%. France 2.06%. Collectively, and including Canada, they spend about half as much on defense as we do.

That’s not nothing. But how much more can they realistically spare on Ukraine’s behalf? Especially at a time when their social services are strained.

UK used to spend 5% of GDP on defense during the Thatcher era. But look at what their healthcare expenditures have done since then.

They’re taxed.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

I don't know. But I sure as hell wouldn't give Russia a free pass or blame the country that got invaded for this.

I not advocating for anything but putting blame where it obviously belongs. Zelensky, Ukraine, NATO, the US, Europe, the entire world except Russia has zero fault in this war. It's 100% on Russia. To say otherwise is either ignorance or straight up propaganda. Is the situation in that region complex? Yes. But it ain't that complex.

Anyone who thinks world history began in 2014 should never speak publicly.