Tone So Much Different This Time Around

[RevMatt]

I've been a member of this site since the 90s. I have had only one previous screen name (I think it was MattinIndy, or something like that), that I was forced to change due to a problem with my account -- and no, I wasn't banned for being a horrible person. I have people at home who tell me when I'm being horrible and keep me in line... :?)

Having been around rivals during the transition from RMK to Davis to Sampson to CTC, I find the degree of apathy currently pretty astounding. If FG chooses not to fire CTC (or accept CTC's "resignation"), I tend to believe that next season will be one in which a great deal of the fan base is truly lost. Maybe not for good, but certainly for a while. At least "lost" unless and until a truly outstanding coach is hired to replace CTC.

While it was obvious that the program had slipped a great deal during the last few years of RMK's tenure, there was always the belief that he was building for at least one last great run. There was always optimism that he was capable of taking a good team and making it truly outstanding by March (like he did in 87). Or that he could get a team of reasonably talented players to form a cohesive unit and overachieve (like he did in 89). Even though he didn't have much NCAA tournament success in the latter part of the 90s, his track record proved that he was always capable of making another run.

When RMK was let go, Davis was given the job, and the Loopers protested and there was a great deal of anger and tumult, but there was still a good deal of interest in the program. Davis had short-term success both on the court and with some initial highly ranked recruits. Then he started losing, the style of basketball was awful, and it was obvious that he was in over his head. It got pretty bad in the forums near the end of his time, with a few staunch defenders clinging to the hope that he would keep the job (oddly so), but again, people still CARED.

Enter Sampson, immediate success. He could really coach, but not follow the rules (no surprise given his background, duh!). The sanctions, the implosion of the program. But again, interest remained high. New coach, big job, etc...

I think the last couple of years have shown that a combination of an odd, quirky coach, lack of quality fundamental basketball (we are an knowledgeable fan base), lack of any sort of consistent success, and an AD that gave CTC the most unnecessary and one-sided contract extension imaginable (hard to have faith in him), have led to apathy. And an apathetic fan base is probably worst type of fan base to have, I would think.

For those of you who weren't around during the RMK to Davis to Sampson transitions, you ain't seen nothin'...

 

[chris007]

I've been a member of this site since the 90s. I have had only one previous screen name (I think it was MattinIndy, or something like that), that I was forced to change due to a problem with my account -- and no, I wasn't banned for being a horrible person. I have people at home who tell me when I'm being horrible and keep me in line... :?)

Having been around rivals during the transition from RMK to Davis to Sampson to CTC, I find the degree of apathy currently pretty astounding. If FG chooses not to fire CTC (or accept CTC's "resignation"), I tend to believe that next season will be one in which a great deal of the fan base is truly lost. Maybe not for good, but certainly for a while. At least "lost" unless and until a truly outstanding coach is hired to replace CTC.

While it was obvious that the program had slipped a great deal during the last few years of RMK's tenure, there was always the belief that he was building for at least one last great run. There was always optimism that he was capable of taking a good team and making it truly outstanding by March (like he did in 87). Or that he could get a team of reasonably talented players to form a cohesive unit and overachieve (like he did in 89). Even though he didn't have much NCAA tournament success in the latter part of the 90s, his track record proved that he was always capable of making another run.

When RMK was let go, Davis was given the job, and the Loopers protested and there was a great deal of anger and tumult, but there was still a good deal of interest in the program. Davis had short-term success both on the court and with some initial highly ranked recruits. Then he started losing, the style of basketball was awful, and it was obvious that he was in over his head. It got pretty bad in the forums near the end of his time, with a few staunch defenders clinging to the hope that he would keep the job (oddly so), but again, people still CARED.

Enter Sampson, immediate success. He could really coach, but not follow the rules (no surprise given his background, duh!). The sanctions, the implosion of the program. But again, interest remained high. New coach, big job, etc...

I think the last couple of years have shown that a combination of an odd, quirky coach, lack of quality fundamental basketball (we are an knowledgeable fan base), lack of any sort of consistent success, and an AD that gave CTC the most unnecessary and one-sided contract extension imaginable (hard to have faith in him), have led to apathy. And an apathetic fan base is probably worst type of fan base to have, I would think.

For those of you who weren't around during the RMK to Davis to Sampson transitions, you ain't seen nothin'...

As you know also it much different this time because people in the athletic department are not calling websites & asking people to take things down or not talk about coaching changes. That is one reason for someone to believe that there will be a change made.

 

[RevMatt]

True. I suppose everyone needs access to the local university to a degree. Even folks at rivals and Mike in the past.

And lots of communicating had to be done through PMs, because threads were so inflammatory that they were being removed almost as soon as they appeared -- especially during the Davis years. Admittedly, I was a premium member back then, and sometimes it wasn't even worth it to go to the free board.

 

[Univee2]

I've been a member of this site since the 90s. I have had only one previous screen name (I think it was MattinIndy, or something like that), that I was forced to change due to a problem with my account -- and no, I wasn't banned for being a horrible person. I have people at home who tell me when I'm being horrible and keep me in line... :?)

Having been around rivals during the transition from RMK to Davis to Sampson to CTC, I find the degree of apathy currently pretty astounding. If FG chooses not to fire CTC (or accept CTC's "resignation"), I tend to believe that next season will be one in which a great deal of the fan base is truly lost. Maybe not for good, but certainly for a while. At least "lost" unless and until a truly outstanding coach is hired to replace CTC.

While it was obvious that the program had slipped a great deal during the last few years of RMK's tenure, there was always the belief that he was building for at least one last great run. There was always optimism that he was capable of taking a good team and making it truly outstanding by March (like he did in 87). Or that he could get a team of reasonably talented players to form a cohesive unit and overachieve (like he did in 89). Even though he didn't have much NCAA tournament success in the latter part of the 90s, his track record proved that he was always capable of making another run.

When RMK was let go, Davis was given the job, and the Loopers protested and there was a great deal of anger and tumult, but there was still a good deal of interest in the program. Davis had short-term success both on the court and with some initial highly ranked recruits. Then he started losing, the style of basketball was awful, and it was obvious that he was in over his head. It got pretty bad in the forums near the end of his time, with a few staunch defenders clinging to the hope that he would keep the job (oddly so), but again, people still CARED.

Enter Sampson, immediate success. He could really coach, but not follow the rules (no surprise given his background, duh!). The sanctions, the implosion of the program. But again, interest remained high. New coach, big job, etc...

I think the last couple of years have shown that a combination of an odd, quirky coach, lack of quality fundamental basketball (we are an knowledgeable fan base), lack of any sort of consistent success, and an AD that gave CTC the most unnecessary and one-sided contract extension imaginable (hard to have faith in him), have led to apathy. And an apathetic fan base is probably worst type of fan base to have, I would think.

For those of you who weren't around during the RMK to Davis to Sampson transitions, you ain't seen nothin'...

There are likely only three coaches who can get us to the promised land:

1. Mike Krzyzewski - 100% chance he ain't coming here.
2. Brad Stevens - 98% chance the powers-that-be don't have the cojones, the vision and the money to get him to come.
3. John Calipari - 100% chance none of us want him to come to IU.

Everybody else is just a crap-shoot.

The depressing thought is that this administration will fulfill and reaffirm every negative thought we have about their ability to make a sound decision. There could well be those looking to give Davis or Sampson a second chance .....

Alas, Babylon ..........

 

[RevMatt]

I don't agree that there that there are only three coaches that can have a great deal of success in Bloomington. That being said, I would hope that they would follow the model set in Ann Arbor and really go after their top candidate in the same fashion that Michigan did when they went after Harbaugh.

 

[chris007]

There are likely only three coaches who can get us to the promised land:

1. Mike Krzyzewski - 100% chance he ain't coming here.
2. Brad Stevens - 98% chance the powers-that-be don't have the cojones, the vision and the money to get him to come.
3. John Calipari - 100% chance none of us want him to come to IU.

Everybody else is just a crap-shoot.

The depressing thought is that this administration will fulfill and reaffirm every negative thought we have about their ability to make a sound decision. There could well be those looking to give Davis or Sampson a second chance .....

Alas, Babylon ..........

I think this is about as far off as I've ever seen. Only 3 coaches who can win the NC and one of them has never won one.

 

[Bogie8870]

I don't agree that there that there are only three coaches that can have a great deal of success in Bloomington. That being said, I would hope that they would follow the model set in Ann Arbor and really go after their top candidate in the same fashion that Michigan did when they went after Harbaugh.

Hopefully our coach will have sleepovers at recruit's houses too then...

 

[Nesquik1]

I don't agree that there that there are only three coaches that can have a great deal of success in Bloomington. That being said, I would hope that they would follow the model set in Ann Arbor and really go after their top candidate in the same fashion that Michigan did when they went after Harbaugh.

This. The athletic department needs to take the same approach Michigan did in football. They were tired of the mediocre coaches and settling for the 3rd and 4th options. Finally they went all out and got their guy. And look at the dividends it is paying for UM. I truly believe that Steve Alford is that guy for us. He would re-energize this fan base and the state as a whole like we haven't seen since the early 90's. To me only 3 candidates for that mold: Alford, Stevens and Donovan. And I realize either one would be very difficult to get. But if this program is to be resurrected ala Michigan football Fred Glass needs to make it happen. All this talk of Archie Miller, Bryce Drew, Greg Marshall, etc. would be very underwhelming.

 

[IU Scott]

This. The athletic department needs to take the same approach Michigan did in football. They were tired of the mediocre coaches and settling for the 3rd and 4th options. Finally they went all out and got their guy. And look at the dividends it is paying for UM. I truly believe that Steve Alford is that guy for us. He would re-energize this fan base and the state as a whole like we haven't seen since the early 90's. To me only 3 candidates for that mold: Alford, Stevens and Donovan. And I realize either one would be very difficult to get. But if this program is to be resurrected ala Michigan football Fred Glass needs to make it happen. All this talk of Archie Miller, Bryce Drew, Greg Marshall, etc. would be very underwhelming.

No thank you on Alford because if he did not play at IU you would not want him.

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

Alford would be the worst hire since Davis. It comes down to three options to me for a home run hire. Stevens,Donovan and Marshall in that order. The rest are crap shoots much like TC was.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

Donovan.....then Marshall.

 

[Nesquik1]

Yeah, Alford would be horrible. I mean look at the train wreck at UCLA.....

Archie Miller would be a disaster. As would Greg Marshall. As would anybody not named Alford, Stevens or Donovan.

 

[mathboy]

If IU does bounce Crean, I will be surprised, and pleased. I think IU needs to look for an up&coming coach who teaches good fundamentals to his kids, and runs a clean program. Don't try for a home run with some burnt-out old guy. Get a coach that knows basketball and can teach it, even if it is from a small school. Let IU's reputation and prime recruiting location work for themselves. A good coach who is honest and sane will quickly repair relationships with local coaches. IU will get the players you need with little trouble, if the coach is a good teacher.

 

[Inequality]

If IU does bounce Crean, I will be surprised, and pleased. I think IU needs to look for an up&coming coach who teaches good fundamentals to his kids, and runs a clean program. Don't try for a home run with some burnt-out old guy. Get a coach that knows basketball and can teach it, even if it is from a small school. Let IU's reputation and prime recruiting location work for themselves. A good coach who is honest and sane will quickly repair relationships with local coaches. IU will get the players you need with little trouble, if the coach is a good teacher.

You can prepare to be surprised & pleased.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

If IU does bounce Crean, I will be surprised, and pleased. I think IU needs to look for an up&coming coach who teaches good fundamentals to his kids, and runs a clean program. Don't try for a home run with some burnt-out old guy. Get a coach that knows basketball and can teach it, even if it is from a small school. Let IU's reputation and prime recruiting location work for themselves. A good coach who is honest and sane will quickly repair relationships with local coaches. IU will get the players you need with little trouble, if the coach is a good teacher.

you just described the last hire....

 

[abraxis]

If IU does bounce Crean, I will be surprised, and pleased. I think IU needs to look for an up&coming coach who teaches good fundamentals to his kids, and runs a clean program. Don't try for a home run with some burnt-out old guy. Get a coach that knows basketball and can teach it, even if it is from a small school. Let IU's reputation and prime recruiting location work for themselves. A good coach who is honest and sane will quickly repair relationships with local coaches. IU will get the players you need with little trouble, if the coach is a good teacher.

One thing that would be hard to replace after Crean is his work ethic. Crean works his ass off at recruiting. He may not always work effectively, but he certainly tries hard, or so it seems. We had the greatest teacher of all time (arguably) in Knight but he got complacent in his later years when he preferred the fishing rod and his bird dog to coddling mothers of players.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

I really think the "Knight got complacent late in his career" card is blown out of proportion....so over-played. What coach after a long stretch and success at the highest level doesn't "slow down", that is, delegate more? Did Knight slow down? Yes...does that translate into "lazy"? I'm not convinced....even if Knight himself made self-depricating comments. Denny Crum comes to mind....so does Joe B. Hall. I see alot of delegating there towards the end of their careers.

That trajectory of success might be static until retirement if your name is Coach K....but for the rest of them....levelling off is natural. We can argue the degree of levelling all day long. I am just saying that Knight and "lazy" doesn't work for me.