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Today’s Absence of the Pro-Brohm Allen Haters Speaks Volumes

Good point. I don't hate Brohm or say he's a bad coach, just don't think two 6-6 seasons w/7 pt wins over IU makes him Bear Bryant 2.0! Also think Allen will show a second straight year of good recruiting and with now two strong QB's on the roster (& Ramsey too!)
 
I am wondering whether a few of the sky is falling crowd are exercising self control or if they were put on double secret probation. Also wondering if verbal commitments will come in today, if nothing else to make the process tomorrow go smoother. If I recall last year everyone signed on the first day.
 
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actions speak louder than words

They aren’t here for the good events

Just show up when they can criticize

Wish I was a mod ...

I’d ban 50 a day
Are you just trying to be a jackass and stir up the pot or something?? Are you pissed off if people don’t complain? Why do you even post a comment like this right now? Have we all the sudden become a dominant program because of a couple guys committed to us? Last I looked we still haven’t qualified for a bowl yet.

I’m hopefull things move in the right direction like we all want to see, but comments like this, IN MY OPINION, are not called for either. We still haven’t done shit on the field where it matters!!
 
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Are you just trying to be a jackass and stir up the pot or something?? Are you pissed off if people don’t complain? Why do you even post a comment like this right now? Have we all the sudden become a dominant program because of a couple guys committed to us? Last I looked we still haven’t qualified for a bowl yet.

I’m hopefull things move in the right direction like we all want to see, but comments like this, IN MY OPINION, are not called for either. We still haven’t done shit on the field where it matters!!

I’m not trying to be a jackass, I’m criticizing the jackasses.

And believe me, if I wanted to be a jackass, I could. I have a DEGREE in Jackassery.

I’m just sick of IU fans who never NEVER EVER have a positive thing to say about our team, our players or our coaches. All we hear from them is how bad we are and these days how great Purdue is. (Best 6 wins EVER.)

Today was a chance to be pro-IU and they were silent. So screw them.
 
I’m not trying to be a jackass, I’m criticizing the jackasses.

And believe me, if I wanted to be a jackass, I could. I have a DEGREE in Jackassery.

I’m just sick of IU fans who never NEVER EVER have a positive thing to say about our team, our players or our coaches. All we hear from them is how bad we are and these days how great Purdue is. (Best 6 wins EVER.)

Today was a chance to be pro-IU and they were silent. So screw them.
hell yes!
 
I am wondering whether a few of the sky is falling crowd are exercising self control or if they were put on double secret probation. Also wondering if verbal commitments will come in today, if nothing else to make the process tomorrow go smoother. If I recall last year everyone signed on the first day.
We had 3 or 4 on the 2nd signing period. Looking forward to that again. I like the new signing days :). You lock up what you need to and then look for either gems that fell through, late bloomers, or juco/grad transfer. The there are even guys that didn't sign the early period and sometimes can't get signed because a class they committed to might have been filled so we get another oppty. Great stuff.

BTW I guess I must have missed something??? Why did this thread start anyways. Kind of an odd title?
 
I thought we got the 3 Florida studs Head, Miller late last year. 2nd s



I am wondering whether a few of the sky is falling crowd are exercising self control or if they were put on double secret probation. Also wondering if verbal commitments will come in today, if nothing else to make the process tomorrow go smoother. If I recall last year everyone signed on the first day.
 
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I’m not trying to be a jackass, I’m criticizing the jackasses.

And believe me, if I wanted to be a jackass, I could. I have a DEGREE in Jackassery.

I’m just sick of IU fans who never NEVER EVER have a positive thing to say about our team, our players or our coaches. All we hear from them is how bad we are and these days how great Purdue is. (Best 6 wins EVER.)

Today was a chance to be pro-IU and they were silent. So screw them.

Ditto that...

I'm certain they're already composing posts about the one or two guys who were flipped (happens every year to nearly every team) versus something positive about the 20+ great ones that sign...
 
I’m not trying to be a jackass, I’m criticizing the jackasses.

And believe me, if I wanted to be a jackass, I could. I have a DEGREE in Jackassery.

I’m just sick of IU fans who never NEVER EVER have a positive thing to say about our team, our players or our coaches. All we hear from them is how bad we are and these days how great Purdue is. (Best 6 wins EVER.)

Today was a chance to be pro-IU and they were silent. So screw them.
 
I’m probably one of the posters this was directed at and I was the 3rd or 4th poster on the thread saying how great of a pickup it was.
 
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MTIOTF, you know I'm maybe as big of an IU football fan as anyone. I agree with the premise of your post, but I also don't mind some discourse and pointing out our flaws either. I mean let's face it, IU football has had an atrocious history - bad luck, bad timing, bad hires, bad recruiting, bad coaching, bad facilities, bad fan support - I could go on and on, and it takes a special fan (or a functioning idiot) to put up with it over the years. So I don't mind posters here taking a wait and see posture, or pointing out that history to those of those of us who may get a little over zealous in our expectations.

However, there are the few who are constant negative vibers and I told you so's. I don't get their need to post the same negative drivel time over time, almost every single post. Almost the same as I don't get why Purdue fans post here other than Bucket week. If you hate something as much as you seem to hate IU football, AD's, and administration, why do you continue to follow it? Life is too short to spend so much time with something you get so little enjoyment out of. And it makes this board unbearable to read at times.

Jump back on the bandwagon if we ever make it to the promised land...we'll welcome you back!
 
actions speak louder than words

They aren’t here for the good events

Just show up when they can criticize

Wish I was a mod ...

I’d ban 50 a day

how naive are people still that this is the internet, that just because someone purports to be an IU fan, that that doesn't necessarily mean they are, and that every competing program most likely troll farms us and others.

plenty of posters post here from daily to several times a day, that i don't believe for 2 seconds are IU fans, and aren't here just to add to the conversation.

and not too tough to figure out who they are.

if someone claims to be an IU fan, but consistently tries to seed discontent and knock the program, don't over think it, good chance they aren't IU fans and aren't here with good intentions.

this isn't going away, so if it sounds like a troll, good chance it is.

remember also, the trolls' posts aren't aimed at IU fans, they are aimed at the players, recruits, and their families and friends.

remember also that Yahoo/Verizon, who own Rivals, aren't IU fans either, so don't look for any help from them in cleaning this up.

like i said, if someone appears to be a troll, most likely they are, and don't get thrown off by any false indignation on their part when called out.
 
MTIOTF, you know I'm maybe as big of an IU football fan as anyone. I agree with the premise of your post, but I also don't mind some discourse and pointing out our flaws either. I mean let's face it, IU football has had an atrocious history - bad luck, bad timing, bad hires, bad recruiting, bad coaching, bad facilities, bad fan support - I could go on and on, and it takes a special fan (or a functioning idiot) to put up with it over the years. So I don't mind posters here taking a wait and see posture, or pointing out that history to those of those of us who may get a little over zealous in our expectations.

However, there are the few who are constant negative vibers and I told you so's. I don't get their need to post the same negative drivel time over time, almost every single post. Almost the same as I don't get why Purdue fans post here other than Bucket week. If you hate something as much as you seem to hate IU football, AD's, and administration, why do you continue to follow it? Life is too short to spend so much time with something you get so little enjoyment out of. And it makes this board unbearable to read at times.

Jump back on the bandwagon if we ever make it to the promised land...we'll welcome you back!

Agreed, mostly.

Its a matter of tone.

I can live with criticism, but gleeful criticism, or criticism based on "the moon is made of cheese"-quality arguments? I'll probably go to my grave e-whopping those folks. Sometimes it gets frustrating. Sometimes its fun.

Yesterday was fun.
 
I'm very excited about this recruiting class. Tuttle sounds like a talented guy. I would have preferred a 4 star player at almost any other position, but it's nice to have talent on the roster. I hope that the addition of a QB doesn't lead to the loss of a QB as today's college football landscape seems to suggest it will.

Now, let's add some lineman and linebackers!
 
Just so I understand let me ask. If I question the process where FG fires KW and within minutes walks down the hall and hires CTA, does that make me a hater? When FG and CTA predict a breakout season and it is not, am I a hater? When the 2nd season is as bad or worse than the 1st season and I'm not satisfied with the coaching am I a hater?
I want to see CTA do well because I want IU to win in my lifetime and it looks less likely each year. I thought I saw something during the Michigan game that was encouraging but then laid an egg against Purdue. The team was unprepared and poorly coached. During the season I saw too many penalties and drive killing mistakes that shows how undisciplined the team is and that translates to poor coaching. The Pukes started the season playing stupid but fixed it and we didnt.
If we play next season like we did against Michigan I'll be giving CTA praises and I hope they do but I still have reservations.
 
Just so I understand let me ask. If I question the process where FG fires KW and within minutes walks down the hall and hires CTA, does that make me a hater? When FG and CTA predict a breakout season and it is not, am I a hater? When the 2nd season is as bad or worse than the 1st season and I'm not satisfied with the coaching am I a hater?
I want to see CTA do well because I want IU to win in my lifetime and it looks less likely each year. I thought I saw something during the Michigan game that was encouraging but then laid an egg against Purdue. The team was unprepared and poorly coached. During the season I saw too many penalties and drive killing mistakes that shows how undisciplined the team is and that translates to poor coaching. The Pukes started the season playing stupid but fixed it and we didnt.
If we play next season like we did against Michigan I'll be giving CTA praises and I hope they do but I still have reservations.

Hater;)
 
Just so I understand let me ask. If I question the process where FG fires KW and within minutes walks down the hall and hires CTA, does that make me a hater? When FG and CTA predict a breakout season and it is not, am I a hater? When the 2nd season is as bad or worse than the 1st season and I'm not satisfied with the coaching am I a hater?
I want to see CTA do well because I want IU to win in my lifetime and it looks less likely each year. I thought I saw something during the Michigan game that was encouraging but then laid an egg against Purdue. The team was unprepared and poorly coached. During the season I saw too many penalties and drive killing mistakes that shows how undisciplined the team is and that translates to poor coaching. The Pukes started the season playing stupid but fixed it and we didnt.
If we play next season like we did against Michigan I'll be giving CTA praises and I hope they do but I still have reservations.

Depends.

Tone matters.

So does accuracy.

So do the REASONS behind the claim that coaching is dissatisfying.

If they are “football valid” we can talk. I don't mind fair, valid and constructive criticism.

Best example - non-coaching: its EASY to see/understand why many folks favor Penix over Ramsey. Gun versus non-gun. Drop-in-bucket downfield throws versus frozen ropes. But it's also possible - if not easy - to understand why Allen/Debord/Sheridan picked Ramsey to start and brought Penix along slow. Experience and the 4-game red-shirt rule made that a different calculation than in the past. IF there was no 4 game rule, my bet is we'd have red-shirted Penix from the start and the kid from Arizona would have stayed. But no way do I see them starting a raw rookie with a big arm over Ramsey. But I can understand why others may disagree.

As to coaching:

Why does IU "laying an egg against Purdue" mean our coaches are no good, while Ohio State laying an egg against Iowa last year and Purdue this year just means Brohm is brilliant? Why isn't Meyer criticized for the same thing in the same way as Allen?

I was much more upset with the games at Maryland last year (defense laid down) and Minnesota this year (whole team stayed on the bus) than either Bucket Game (although I HATE to lose ANY Bucket Game - POTFB).

But even so - a football team played well one week and didn’t play well every week? Wow. Alert the media? Nope.

Teams that can sustain high-level play nearly every week are Top 20 teams. Anybody think Wilson would have had us in the Top 20 last year? This year? How about the Great National Search Hire? Could we have gotten the UCF guy here? Les Miles? Mack Brown? Would ANYBODY we could have actually hired other than Allen won more than 5 and 5? I'll hang up and listen. I don't see it - but I'll listen. But not just to "Glass sucks - we suck - shut up." I'll fight that.

People say we should just announce a big salary and watch the resumes roll in.
That's not how it works.
And our post-WWII national searches brought us ... mostly disasters.

Clyde Smith 8–27–1 First 2 years 3-15
Bernie Crimmins 13–32 4-14
Phil Dickens 20–41–2 9-7-2 and probation for all teams all sports
John Pont 31–51–1 3-16-1
Lee Corso 28–52–2 3-19
Sam Wyche 3–8
Mallory 69–77–3 4-18
Cam Cameron 18–37 6-16
Gerry DiNardo 8–27 5-19
Terry Hoeppner 9–14
Kevin Wilson 18–38 5-19
Tom Allen 10-14

MOST posters on this board would have wanted to fire everybody but Dickens after 2 years.
National versus internal isn't deciding factor.

More (IMO) unfair pro-Brohm bias - Brohm had a year to evaluate Sindelar (3rd year junior) and Blough (5th year Senior). He then picked the wrong guy. Maybe cost them an 8 or 9 win season. But here, Brohm "fixed" his problems while Allen is criticized for picking between Ramsey (3rd year sophomore) and Penix (true freshman - no experience). Apples and oranges.

You say Allen had an "undisciplined" and "unprepared" team, using penalties as evidence. The FACT is we were called for 71 penalties. Purdue had 75. Michigan had 84. Ohio State had 107. But only OUR coaches suck? Nope. Not fair.

Penalties CAN mean poor coaching. Not always. It’s not as easy as that. Blocking a guy who outweighs you, and is stronger and faster than you, may also impact the issue. (See the Iowa OL and MSU DL this season.) Fact is when the defensive line is throwing you around, you tend to false start and/or hold. It may have nothing to do with coaching. Only a guy who watches film can tell that.

I also suspect Glass gave the Wilson/Allen fire/hire decision way more thought than your post implies, but I understand the complaint. I also think the cake is still cooking and its too early to fairly give this staff a final up or down.

According to the actual numbers, Allen has done BETTER than most coaches do in the first two years, BETTER than other IU coaches have done since WWII, and not as good as a few coaches have pulled off in other circumstances.

I evaluate him based on OUR circumstances. OUR reality. Actual numbers. Actual rosters.

And his 2 year recruiting results have been excellent - especially if the meme is true (which I reject) about him needing to overcome shitty institutional commitment to football, lack of comparable facilities and the overwhelming Great Brohmbardi who won 6 rather than 5 in order to even get a kid to look at IU. (Seriously - out of Allen's 14 losses, 7 are 1 score or less. Our fans need to come in off the ledge!)

Finally, nobody “predicted” a breakout. That's the wrong word. They said that was what they wanted and they coach-spoke about it. Has nothing do with anything. Stop seizing on the pablum. Wilson said WIN NOW. So what? The roster is the roster. the schedule is the schedule. Hyperbole is fun. Reality requires a lot more. We are BUILDING a program. Base coaching evaluations on the things that matter, not marketing phrases.

I don't mind fair, valid and constructive criticism.
But the crap that has been the norm on this board this season is nothing but uninformed whining.
Brohm is a good coach.
He ain't the Jesus of Football.
So I bust their chops.

Does that make you a "hater"?
You have to make that call - not me.
 
Depends.

Tone matters.

So does accuracy.

So do the REASONS behind the claim that coaching is dissatisfying.

If they are “football valid” we can talk. I don't mind fair, valid and constructive criticism.

Best example - non-coaching: its EASY to see/understand why many folks favor Penix over Ramsey. Gun versus non-gun. Drop-in-bucket downfield throws versus frozen ropes. But it's also possible - if not easy - to understand why Allen/Debord/Sheridan picked Ramsey to start and brought Penix along slow. Experience and the 4-game red-shirt rule made that a different calculation than in the past. IF there was no 4 game rule, my bet is we'd have red-shirted Penix from the start and the kid from Arizona would have stayed. But no way do I see them starting a raw rookie with a big arm over Ramsey. But I can understand why others may disagree.

As to coaching:

Why does IU "laying an egg against Purdue" mean our coaches are no good, while Ohio State laying an egg against Iowa last year and Purdue this year just means Brohm is brilliant? Why isn't Meyer criticized for the same thing in the same way as Allen?

I was much more upset with the games at Maryland last year (defense laid down) and Minnesota this year (whole team stayed on the bus) than either Bucket Game (although I HATE to lose ANY Bucket Game - POTFB).

But even so - a football team played well one week and didn’t play well every week? Wow. Alert the media? Nope.

Teams that can sustain high-level play nearly every week are Top 20 teams. Anybody think Wilson would have had us in the Top 20 last year? This year? How about the Great National Search Hire? Could we have gotten the UCF guy here? Les Miles? Mack Brown? Would ANYBODY we could have actually hired other than Allen won more than 5 and 5? I'll hang up and listen. I don't see it - but I'll listen. But not just to "Glass sucks - we suck - shut up." I'll fight that.

People say we should just announce a big salary and watch the resumes roll in.
That's not how it works.
And our post-WWII national searches brought us ... mostly disasters.

Clyde Smith 8–27–1 First 2 years 3-15
Bernie Crimmins 13–32 4-14
Phil Dickens 20–41–2 9-7-2 and probation for all teams all sports
John Pont 31–51–1 3-16-1
Lee Corso 28–52–2 3-19
Sam Wyche 3–8
Mallory 69–77–3 4-18
Cam Cameron 18–37 6-16
Gerry DiNardo 8–27 5-19
Terry Hoeppner 9–14
Kevin Wilson 18–38 5-19
Tom Allen 10-14

MOST posters on this board would have wanted to fire everybody but Dickens after 2 years.
National versus internal isn't deciding factor.

More (IMO) unfair pro-Brohm bias - Brohm had a year to evaluate Sindelar (3rd year junior) and Blough (5th year Senior). He then picked the wrong guy. Maybe cost them an 8 or 9 win season. But here, Brohm "fixed" his problems while Allen is criticized for picking between Ramsey (3rd year sophomore) and Penix (true freshman - no experience). Apples and oranges.

You say Allen had an "undisciplined" and "unprepared" team, using penalties as evidence. The FACT is we were called for 71 penalties. Purdue had 75. Michigan had 84. Ohio State had 107. But only OUR coaches suck? Nope. Not fair.

Penalties CAN mean poor coaching. Not always. It’s not as easy as that. Blocking a guy who outweighs you, and is stronger and faster than you, may also impact the issue. (See the Iowa OL and MSU DL this season.) Fact is when the defensive line is throwing you around, you tend to false start and/or hold. It may have nothing to do with coaching. Only a guy who watches film can tell that.

I also suspect Glass gave the Wilson/Allen fire/hire decision way more thought than your post implies, but I understand the complaint. I also think the cake is still cooking and its too early to fairly give this staff a final up or down.

According to the actual numbers, Allen has done BETTER than most coaches do in the first two years, BETTER than other IU coaches have done since WWII, and not as good as a few coaches have pulled off in other circumstances.

I evaluate him based on OUR circumstances. OUR reality. Actual numbers. Actual rosters.

And his 2 year recruiting results have been excellent - especially if the meme is true (which I reject) about him needing to overcome shitty institutional commitment to football, lack of comparable facilities and the overwhelming Great Brohmbardi who won 6 rather than 5 in order to even get a kid to look at IU. (Seriously - out of Allen's 14 losses, 7 are 1 score or less. Our fans need to come in off the ledge!)

Finally, nobody “predicted” a breakout. That's the wrong word. They said that was what they wanted and they coach-spoke about it. Has nothing do with anything. Stop seizing on the pablum. Wilson said WIN NOW. So what? The roster is the roster. the schedule is the schedule. Hyperbole is fun. Reality requires a lot more. We are BUILDING a program. Base coaching evaluations on the things that matter, not marketing phrases.

I don't mind fair, valid and constructive criticism.
But the crap that has been the norm on this board this season is nothing but uninformed whining.
Brohm is a good coach.
He ain't the Jesus of Football.
So I bust their chops.

Does that make you a "hater"?
You have to make that call - not me.

The bitter pill has to be swallowed in context of the situation. Allen is recruiting very well. Kudos for that.
The problem that many have is that other coaches, Brohm namely, comes in and transforms their program immediately coming off a bottom-of-the-barrel four year era. Has them in back-back bowls and did what we’ve only talked about: breakthrough wins. The guy may have only had six wins but beat 3 ranked teams.
Posters say the talent gap is not that wide, so what is the common denominator? It’s coaching. IU has a new guy coming off back-to-back bowls and a veteran roster 2 years ago in 2017. He fails to have a winning season 2 years in a row. Meanwhile, the other guy works what was left over from the disastrous tenure before him, rallied them and literally transforms the program.

This isn’t so much about IU’s terrible past. It’s about the present and IU had the momentum and lost it overnight. That’s what has fans losing it. The common factor in the equation is coaching.
 
If I'm mostly a "show me on Saturday" kind of fan, so be it. 50+ years of waiting for a winner can do that to a person. I LOVE the fact TA is recruiting the hell out of Indiana. As a weekly MIC Conference observer, I see athletes every Friday night that can clearly help IU on Saturdays. If TA keeps this recruiting prowess up, success (winning seasons, bucket, and a bowl) almost certainly has to follow. I really like the guy and believe he deserves a couple more years to prove his mettle. Now just show me on Saturday.

One more thing, if you ban 50 a day, you'd kill this place off in a day or two. The scarcity of posters (and posts) here has been noticeable.
 
The bitter pill has to be swallowed in context of the situation. Allen is recruiting very well. Kudos for that.
The problem that many have is that other coaches, Brohm namely, comes in and transforms their program immediately coming off a bottom-of-the-barrel four year era. Has them in back-back bowls and did what we’ve only talked about: breakthrough wins. The guy may have only had six wins but beat 3 ranked teams.
Posters say the talent gap is not that wide, so what is the common denominator? It’s coaching. IU has a new guy coming off back-to-back bowls and a veteran roster 2 years ago in 2017. He fails to have a winning season 2 years in a row. Meanwhile, the other guy works what was left over from the disastrous tenure before him, rallied them and literally transforms the program.

This isn’t so much about IU’s terrible past. It’s about the present and IU had the momentum and lost it overnight. That’s what has fans losing it. The common factor in the equation is coaching.

A little thought experiment

Let's say we agree with your premise that Allen was a bad hire, and IU would be doing better with someone else. In that case, if non-Allen IU coach wins the last 2 buckets (meaning Brohm goes 5-7 both years), has Brohm transformed the Purdue in the same manner? In that scenario, in a vacuum, Brohm has Purdue performing at the exact same level, just one of the opponents (IU) is changing.

Also, in 5-10 years Brohm's win over OSU is could be considered a great win and an early sign of a Purdue program on the rise or just a fluky awful performance by OSU. How that game will be perceived will be largely dependent on the Purdue's success over the next few years, which is TBD.

I think the point I'm trying to make is your threshold for "transformation" is incredibly small and largely based perception.
 
A little thought experiment

Let's say we agree with your premise that Allen was a bad hire, and IU would be doing better with someone else. In that case, if non-Allen IU coach wins the last 2 buckets (meaning Brohm goes 5-7 both years), has Brohm transformed the Purdue in the same manner? In that scenario, in a vacuum, Brohm has Purdue performing at the exact same level, just one of the opponents (IU) is changing.

Also, in 5-10 years Brohm's win over OSU is could be considered a great win and an early sign of a Purdue program on the rise or just a fluky awful performance by OSU. How that game will be perceived will be largely dependent on the Purdue's success over the next few years, which is TBD.

I think the point I'm trying to make is your threshold for "transformation" is incredibly small and largely based perception.

We haven't beaten Michigan since 1987 or Ohio State since 1988. I could not care less how it's perceived...I just want to beat those jokers!
 
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The bitter pill has to be swallowed in context of the situation. Allen is recruiting very well. Kudos for that.
The problem that many have is that other coaches, Brohm namely, comes in and transforms their program immediately coming off a bottom-of-the-barrel four year era. Has them in back-back bowls and did what we’ve only talked about: breakthrough wins. The guy may have only had six wins but beat 3 ranked teams.
Posters say the talent gap is not that wide, so what is the common denominator? It’s coaching. IU has a new guy coming off back-to-back bowls and a veteran roster 2 years ago in 2017. He fails to have a winning season 2 years in a row. Meanwhile, the other guy works what was left over from the disastrous tenure before him, rallied them and literally transforms the program.

This isn’t so much about IU’s terrible past. It’s about the present and IU had the momentum and lost it overnight. That’s what has fans losing it. The common factor in the equation is coaching.

I think I disagree that Brohm "transformed them."

They barely won 6 two years in a row, and in 2018, Brohm messed up an 8-9 win season!

If he gets credit for the "eggs" the 3 ranked teams laid for him (see what I did there?), then he has to take the hit for the other truths - in 2017 he lost at Rutgers (!) and barely beat what we are calling a poorly-coached Indiana team, and in 2018 he lost to Eastern Michigan, at Minnesota (just like Indiana, who is poorly-coached ) and again barely beat poorly-coached IU - and he picked the wrong QB and maybe cost himself 3 wins in the process.

If you assign his poor games the same importance you assign to his big wins, or which you assign to Allen's poor games, then he is not Brohmbardi the Brohminator - he's just another new coach who failed pull his weight.

With almost every factor, you want to overvalue every "Brohm good" - overvalue every "Allen bad" - undervalue the "Brohm bad" and view the difference between a Purdue 6 and an IU 5 as the Grand Canyon of College Football.

(The argument can be made it is NOT coaching - it is one player - put Moore on IU and see what happens, or just keep him off Purdue in 2018.)

And the "back to back bowl team veteran roster in 2017" is a stretch too. That 2017 team lost 3 starting OL - Jacob Bailey, Dan Feeney, and Wes Rogers. They lost both starting WR Ricky Jones and WR Mitchell Paige. They lost the starting RB - Devine Redding. On defense, they lost starters DL Ralph Green III, DL Patrick Dougherty and LB Marcus Oliver. And they lost another starting WR on play 1 from kick off. Yes - every team loses players. But More important they lost the ENTIRE OFFENSIVE STAFF. Brohm brought his staff with him. No small advantage.

Purdue won 6. IU won 5.
It just isn't that big of a difference.

I'll agree that a bowl gives a team a momentum and a perception that is valuable.
And we didn't make a bowl.
But using that one game difference as the main reason to claim Purdue has left IU behind is just too thin.

Allen - without Brohm's equal level of experience as HC - shows a LOT of promise. Way too much for INDIANA fans to be the ones crapping down his back.

And if IU facilities suck so bad and our AD and President suck so bad and Allen STILL put these recruitiing classes together, and still somehow was a play or 2 from a bowl both years, then Brohm should be ashamed of himself for barely winning the Bucket Games and losing so many in state kids to a coaching neophyte.
 
Depends.

Tone matters.

So does accuracy.

So do the REASONS behind the claim that coaching is dissatisfying.

If they are “football valid” we can talk. I don't mind fair, valid and constructive criticism.

Best example - non-coaching: its EASY to see/understand why many folks favor Penix over Ramsey. Gun versus non-gun. Drop-in-bucket downfield throws versus frozen ropes. But it's also possible - if not easy - to understand why Allen/Debord/Sheridan picked Ramsey to start and brought Penix along slow. Experience and the 4-game red-shirt rule made that a different calculation than in the past. IF there was no 4 game rule, my bet is we'd have red-shirted Penix from the start and the kid from Arizona would have stayed. But no way do I see them starting a raw rookie with a big arm over Ramsey. But I can understand why others may disagree.

As to coaching:

Why does IU "laying an egg against Purdue" mean our coaches are no good, while Ohio State laying an egg against Iowa last year and Purdue this year just means Brohm is brilliant? Why isn't Meyer criticized for the same thing in the same way as Allen?

I was much more upset with the games at Maryland last year (defense laid down) and Minnesota this year (whole team stayed on the bus) than either Bucket Game (although I HATE to lose ANY Bucket Game - POTFB).

But even so - a football team played well one week and didn’t play well every week? Wow. Alert the media? Nope.

Teams that can sustain high-level play nearly every week are Top 20 teams. Anybody think Wilson would have had us in the Top 20 last year? This year? How about the Great National Search Hire? Could we have gotten the UCF guy here? Les Miles? Mack Brown? Would ANYBODY we could have actually hired other than Allen won more than 5 and 5? I'll hang up and listen. I don't see it - but I'll listen. But not just to "Glass sucks - we suck - shut up." I'll fight that.

People say we should just announce a big salary and watch the resumes roll in.
That's not how it works.
And our post-WWII national searches brought us ... mostly disasters.

Clyde Smith 8–27–1 First 2 years 3-15
Bernie Crimmins 13–32 4-14
Phil Dickens 20–41–2 9-7-2 and probation for all teams all sports
John Pont 31–51–1 3-16-1
Lee Corso 28–52–2 3-19
Sam Wyche 3–8
Mallory 69–77–3 4-18
Cam Cameron 18–37 6-16
Gerry DiNardo 8–27 5-19
Terry Hoeppner 9–14
Kevin Wilson 18–38 5-19
Tom Allen 10-14

MOST posters on this board would have wanted to fire everybody but Dickens after 2 years.
National versus internal isn't deciding factor.

More (IMO) unfair pro-Brohm bias - Brohm had a year to evaluate Sindelar (3rd year junior) and Blough (5th year Senior). He then picked the wrong guy. Maybe cost them an 8 or 9 win season. But here, Brohm "fixed" his problems while Allen is criticized for picking between Ramsey (3rd year sophomore) and Penix (true freshman - no experience). Apples and oranges.

You say Allen had an "undisciplined" and "unprepared" team, using penalties as evidence. The FACT is we were called for 71 penalties. Purdue had 75. Michigan had 84. Ohio State had 107. But only OUR coaches suck? Nope. Not fair.

Penalties CAN mean poor coaching. Not always. It’s not as easy as that. Blocking a guy who outweighs you, and is stronger and faster than you, may also impact the issue. (See the Iowa OL and MSU DL this season.) Fact is when the defensive line is throwing you around, you tend to false start and/or hold. It may have nothing to do with coaching. Only a guy who watches film can tell that.

I also suspect Glass gave the Wilson/Allen fire/hire decision way more thought than your post implies, but I understand the complaint. I also think the cake is still cooking and its too early to fairly give this staff a final up or down.

According to the actual numbers, Allen has done BETTER than most coaches do in the first two years, BETTER than other IU coaches have done since WWII, and not as good as a few coaches have pulled off in other circumstances.

I evaluate him based on OUR circumstances. OUR reality. Actual numbers. Actual rosters.

And his 2 year recruiting results have been excellent - especially if the meme is true (which I reject) about him needing to overcome shitty institutional commitment to football, lack of comparable facilities and the overwhelming Great Brohmbardi who won 6 rather than 5 in order to even get a kid to look at IU. (Seriously - out of Allen's 14 losses, 7 are 1 score or less. Our fans need to come in off the ledge!)

Finally, nobody “predicted” a breakout. That's the wrong word. They said that was what they wanted and they coach-spoke about it. Has nothing do with anything. Stop seizing on the pablum. Wilson said WIN NOW. So what? The roster is the roster. the schedule is the schedule. Hyperbole is fun. Reality requires a lot more. We are BUILDING a program. Base coaching evaluations on the things that matter, not marketing phrases.

I don't mind fair, valid and constructive criticism.
But the crap that has been the norm on this board this season is nothing but uninformed whining.
Brohm is a good coach.
He ain't the Jesus of Football.
So I bust their chops.

Does that make you a "hater"?
You have to make that call - not me.
Tone matters? Hmmmmm.... swallow...gulp....burp....I’m a bot
 
Tone matters? Hmmmmm.... swallow...gulp....burp....I’m a bot

My stuff probably reads more harshly than it sounds in my head.

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Not here to argue, but wanted to point out it is important to look at the entire picture when comparing Brohm/Allen. Brohm took over after the worst coach in Purdue history. The talent on that team was getting worse and worse as the years went on. While 13-12 is a very average record without any backstory, it is remarkable given his situation.

Allen's story is far from over, especially given his recent recruiting success. His record, although a few bucket games away from beating Brohm's, feels much different because IU was coming off back to back bowls. Also seemed like a step back because it felt as if Kevin Wilson was so close to getting over the hump.

Similar records so far, but the paths have been very different. Always important to look at the context.

In my opinion, I would pick Brohm over Allen 11/10 times and it sounds like you all would do the same for your coach. Who would've thought? Looking forward to some good matchups in the future.

I have no doubt Brohm would have had IU bowling the last two years with the same IU personnel. Brohm is a winner wherever he goes. I disagree that Purdue’s talent level was at a Ball State level like many like to claim. Blough was a real talent and the WRs like Zico and Sharp were good along with both TEs. The TBs were both solid. The defense was serviceable. Hazell just couldn’t coach his way out of a wet paper bag. Coaching makes a difference.
 
Not here to argue, but wanted to point out it is important to look at the entire picture when comparing Brohm/Allen. Brohm took over after the worst coach in Purdue history. The talent on that team was getting worse and worse as the years went on. While 13-12 is a very average record without any backstory, it is remarkable given his situation.

Allen's story is far from over, especially given his recent recruiting success. His record, although a few bucket games away from beating Brohm's, feels much different because IU was coming off back to back bowls. Also seemed like a step back because it felt as if Kevin Wilson was so close to getting over the hump.

Similar records so far, but the paths have been very different. Always important to look at the context.

In my opinion, I would pick Brohm over Allen 11/10 times and it sounds like you all would do the same for your coach. Who would've thought? Looking forward to some good matchups in the future.

Sorry but I didn’t feel like Wilson was so close to being over the hump. He was what 6 years into his tenure? I liked him, for sure say he took IU from dumps to mid tier, but he laid so many eggs, had losses like Rutgers at home debacle. He never had many good QBs recruits and until Allen the defense was awful.

Allen’s cupboard was bare on OL, QB and LB when he took over, at least for sure any depth in this key areas. It may not have been Hazel bad, but it wasn’t a loaded Lexus he was given the keys to drive.

Brohm has better signature wins than IU/Allen over last two years, but also some dog meat losses, and a whopping 2 more wins in two years (could say both the head to head bucket games). He gets bragging rights, but he’s far from pulling away. QB play alone may become a difference maker in IU’s favor soon which may be enough to start turning the ship around. Perception can change quickly in life. IU can turn their image around quickly with some good breaks and a few good wins ahead.
 
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