Time to stock up on popcorn
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
- Start date
That's probably a fair summary of the summary, except I would take issue with the bolded part. What Barr really said was that whether or not someone is guilty of the underlying crime is a factor to consider when determining if obstruction happened. In other words, Barr's characterization is a little more pro-Trump than yours.
Thank a Boiler? In your dreams!You will thank me later.
My first smoke of the day really did make me feel a lot more relaxed. I really need to call my insurance company and sign up for their free quit smoking program.
This I can understand. They had a shitload of circumstantial evidence, but no smoking gun, and they would need that in this situation.
This is where I don't follow. But I suppose it's all about the mens rea shit, if my lawyer-wannabe thinking is correct. If Trumps actual behavior can be construed as legal, then proving his intent would be a high bar indeed.
Is it just me, or does this feel a lot like it did when the OJ verdict was announced?
Which, I guess, makes the inevitable Congressional investigation the parallel of the civil trial?
And five years from now, when the state of New York locks all the Trumps up, that's OJ getting caught stealing his own memorabilia?
Trump tweeted, "No Collusion, No Obstruction, Complete and Total EXONERATION. KEEP AMERICA GREAT!"
Justice delayed, but not denied.Which, I guess, makes the inevitable Congressional investigation the parallel of the civil trial?
And five years from now, when the state of New York locks all the Trumps up, that's OJ getting caught stealing his own memorabilia?
CNN and MSNBC right now are puuuuure entertainment. Seriously. Just gold. Pure gold.
As a life long conservative, Trump was last on my list of potential presidential nominees. LAST. DEAD LAST. Like many others though, the ONLY reason I cast a vote for him in the general election was the Supreme Court legacy issue. There are things that are important to me and well, I figured VP Pence would be able to steer Trump toward potential SC justice nominees that would be acceptable to me and support my particular POV and beliefs. I had ZERO faith that Hillary would do that, so I held my nose and voted for Trump.
And then a funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
But now I gotta say, the way the left has jumped the shark with regards to all things Trump, especially how this whole dossier / Mueller investigation came about, it has completely pushed me onto the Trump or die bandwagon; a place I never wanted or expected to be. Plain and simple, the "fix" was in from the getgo and he still got elected and now the left is full steam ahead and consumed with trying to undo the election and I'll be damned if I'm not gonna be inspired to see him re-elected in 2020. I recall how the left got their panties in a twist over the Tea Party movement, yet the lengths they've gone and continue to go to unseat Trump are worse...a thousand times worse. And they just don't see it. (And I'll happily toss in the Kentucky HS kid in Washington DC getting unfairly napalmed by the left and the press as an additional reason here too.) Karma's a bitch.. 2020 cant get here soon enough.
But why is he a guy you’re so passionate to defend? He’s been a corrupt buffoon for decades, as a democrat and a republican. He is objectively a terrible person. What is with the bizarre defense of this guy? Do you read the childish things he tweets and says on a daily basis? He’s made both parties look bad for years. Why is he, of all people, worth rallying behind? Why do people get so damn tribal about political parties?
I don't mean to suggest this applies to I FAN U, but the level of, for lack of a better word, worship given Trump by his supporters goes far beyond normal partisan tribalism. Obama had his dedicated fans, to be sure, but they were most adulatory before and after his tenure (before, when it was aspirational, and after, when it was comparative to Trump), and at any rate, never at the level seen with Trump. Reagan, of course, is viewed by many Republicans as sort of a Holy Saint of the conservative cause, but that really developed gradually over time, mostly after he left office. Kennedy, Ike, FDR, all looked back on with an extra level of fondness, but they were still just mere men.
Trump is practically a god. It's insane.
Of course, if Trump is a god in one religion, he's a demon in the other. I wonder how much of that is reaction to the other side, and how much of it is because of what Trump himself truly represents. The former would lean more toward mere tribalism, but the latter would suggest Trump merely exposes the deep divisions that already existed.
I bet you want the role of Pontious Pilot?
You really have a selective memory of Obama and an odd impression of what is driving the support of Trump.
Trumps support is driven dramatically by how he is talked about and ridiculed by the left and supported by the media. Something about people persevering through a stacked deck so to speak, is appealing to most Americans who cheer for underdogs. It is becoming more and more obvious to most who are watching that he isn’t being treated very fairly or respectfully. In the furvor of the left to punish him for winning, they have created a support base that actually did not exist before the election. Hence you guys created his support and have made him stronger for the re-election campaign.
It’s been ugly and over the top. Again, many have expressed only to be ridiculed on this site that many didn’t want him as President but voted for him because Hillary was a bad candidate. Period. Talk about an entitlement mentality about her and her nomination. She was rejected.
If the media and the left would just take a breath, stop reacting and feeling response is needed for everything, you would do so much better. If he is half of what the left says he is, he will be rejected. Stop making him the underdog that people can cheer for....
There you go. An honest and fair thought on why. Now look at what you just posted. It was full of passive aggressive insults that we have become so accustom to from the left, media, and academia. You make it easy to root against you.
Listening to complaints of stolen presidency is hilarious in that the very people making that complaint pushed the Whitewater investigation which found oral sex ( and nothing was approved tying that President to whitewater). Many of them pushed Clinton killing Foster, and later Obama not being a citizen.
I never thought they would tie anything to Trump, people can go back and search. But Democrats did not invent this.
I never thought they would tie anything to Trump, people can go back and search. But Democrats did not invent this.
No they didn’t invent it... they invested in the book that told the story.
Remember that one time Trump was at a microphone talking about Hillary's deleted emails, and he joked that maybe the Russians could find them, and every Democrat said that was tantamount to treason, and everyone else just laughed? That was AWESOME!
I don't remember that at all. Probably because it isn't true.
Exactly one person said what Trump did was "tantamount to treason," and that person wasn't even a Democrat.
Because compared to the left, he seems to me to be the far less dangerous. Look, he's everything you said. Personally, I'd like to stick his cell phone (or whatever he uses) up his butt so he can't tweet anymore. But he's a known commodity now. He is what he is and everybody knows it now. On the other hand, the idiots on the left, well, we don't have a clue as to exactly what they are or how far they'll go to "win" anything. So to an extent, Goat has it right below where he says (very loosely paraphrased) supporting Trump might be actually pushing against something else. If the left can't remove Trump through the courts, they will try to do it with things like eliminating the electoral college. I happen to believe the founders and framers of this country were a tremendous collection of inspired bravery and wisdom and their wish to emphasize the importance of a level playing field over a popular vote total shouldn't be overlooked or easily discarded. Personally, I think it's currently unknown what lengths or methods the left would use in order to ultimately impose their will on the rest of us. And because of that, for right or wrong, Trump all the way baby.
Just my thoughts...
Every past president has had his "cult of personality" contingent, that would support them for reasons important or reasons superficial, regardless. While Trump has pushed that envelope exponentially farther than the rest, to chalk up his support among moderate/lean Republican voters to anything other than partisan tribalism is thinking too hard. He is polarizing surely, but not over the issues or policy IMHO, as these differences (not divisions) have always existed, but because he is a dirtbag. That leaves every person who leans left incredulous over the fact that Republicans would put up with a dirtbag to push party agenda, but it's not surprising to me in the least. I guarantee if the roles were reversed and Donald Trump's platform was healthcare for all, expansion of a woman's right to choose and social programs, open borders, and would place two firmly leftist ideologues onto the SCOTUS in his first term the DNC would support that dirtbag in a heartbeat.
You are giving our founding father’s way too much credit if you think this is why we have the electoral college-think more along the lines of southern slaveholders interests.
Check out @HillaryClinton’s Tweet: https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1050479523660218368?s=09
Pearls were clutched.
Edited by NPT: Fixed link
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Yeah, but it's not the support that intrigues us; it's the veneration. I shared a poll last year, I can't remember where from, but I'll link it again if I find. The basic findings were this: During the Clinton scandal, Republicans overwhelming thought Clinton did a bad job and was a bad person. Democrats overwhelmingly thought Clinton did a good job...but was a bad person.
You'd expect a mirror image of that today, but that's not what we have. Democrats overwhelming think Trump does a bad job and is a bad person. Republicans overwhelmingly think he does a good job and is also a good person. That last bit is unique to Trump in the realm of partisan tribalism. In the past, we've always been willing to say, "I'm only supporting this assbag because he agrees with me on important issues." Republicans don't do that with Trump.
Trump was a liberal Democrat until he decided to run. I wonder why he changed? Maybe he thought Dems would see him for the charlatan he is?
Hah, I thought the same but I think maybe he effed up the link or it doesn't allow for direct linking. It blocks me too
https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1050479523660218368?s=09
But if I copy and go it takes me there
And that point is a real head-scratcher. I don't honestly see how anyone can rationally make the case that DJT is a good person. There is no objective evidence of that. And plenty of evidence to the contrary.
Trump is as apolitical (as far as left/right) as he is amoral. His beliefs start and stop @ what best feeds his ego and his wallet. He may be a charlatan, but he will play his part to the nth degree. He will do his level best to maintain the charade, and currently that means serving the Republican party's interests. He would've done the same had he run and won as a Democrat IMHO.
I don't think there's any doubt that Trump would do his level best to play the part, but I think Marvin is suggesting that the Dems would never have fallen for it.
Which is almost certainly true, for at least one obvious reason: Trump essentially launched his political campaign by being the nation's No. 1 Birther. That was only ever going to play well with one party.
Because The Federalist Society latched onto him as someone who could advance their objectives, and they were able to convince him (through intermediaries such as Steve O'Bannon) that a relationship would be mutually beneficial. Trump is a lot of things, but a policy wonk is not among those. He has no real ideology, except that which benefits him personally. This made him susceptible to their advances, and the rest is history.
Here's the original discussion from last year.
https://indiana.forums.rivals.com/threads/tribalism-and-morals.163488/
Yep, once he became a birther he had no chance as a Democrat. For a different party, espousing ridiculous conspiracy theories was not a detriment.
Republicans care more about winning elections than the Dems do, IMO. The Dem's base is much more unreliable....they need to be motivated by something other than just winning to show up and vote.
So, like I said before, what you posted above was factually incorrect. You said "all the Democrats" said Trump's statements were "tantamount to treason," even though, in real life, none of them did.
Even more puzzling since we've seen the body of his work since then, particularly on Twitter. Just in the last week alone, in his attacks of McCain, for instance. He's just just such a D-bag. And anyone who can't or won't acknowledge that, regardless of their politics, is either shockingly ignorant or is sticking their head in the sand.
But to me, he played the game and went with the political winds. If he thought it easier to launch his political career with a left leaning message he would, and to me if the Democrats thought he could win they would support him, from the DNC down to the average voter, regardless of how politically engaged or not they are.
Meh. I think all this "You would have done it, too" stuff is just a way to feel better about how ridiculous your own party is at the moment. There's no evidence the Democrats would ever nominate or support anyone as epically unfit and amoral as Trump, because they've never done it. And they probably never will; neither (with the possible exception of 2020) do I expect the Republicans to ever do so again. Trump will probably be an outlier in American history. However long our nation lasts, the score on supporting people as bad as Trump will probably always remain "Republicans 1, Democrats 0."
And again, I draw your attention to the other half of this conversation. In the 1990's, Democrats agreed that Clinton was an immoral person. Republicans aren't doing that with Trump. Perhaps things have changed for both parties since Clinton was in office, but what little actual data we have on this issue point to the sad truth that this is a uniquely Republican problem.
