I long to see another banner, but i would rather see on a consistent basis the type teams capable of winning a banner. Teams that play with effort on both ends the entire game.
Thoughts on recruiting....
- Thread starter bsmitty08
- Start date
Who said we should limit our future. I'm pulling for just the opposite and doing it the right way with recruits like OG and Morgan who may not be eye candy but play hard on both ends. They also avoided the off court black eyes their first year.
Morgan and OG are both Solid and I think Og has the tools to take a huge leap this year. But neither are elite talents.
OG is not an elite talent? He is a potenting future all American imo and possible lottery pick.
Two things:
1) You really thing Tom Crean is capable of producing teams on a consistent basis that can achieve that goal?
2) If your answer to #1 is yes, please tell us just what in his 8 years at IU and his time at Marquette would lead you to believe that he would be able to produce those types of teams consistently? This is a serious question, and I'm curious as to WHY you would believe this.
He potential is elite and that's what's getting him the NBA look but I would t go overboard yet and say he is A future AA
Tap the brakes a bit on that. He certainly has some potential but let's see how he develops.
Yes I do and I'll be rooting like the dickens for him to do just that. I would no matter who the coach happens to be.
I am encouraged by the effort the team played with post Duke. The last two recruiting classes contain players who play both ends on film. IF the 2016 class contributes then that would be two years in a row towards achieving those goals of consistency. I hope we can have this same conversation next year about the possibilities of the 2017 class adding on to that achievement.
Now that he will be a starter this year he should be one of the top players in the league. His ability to drive and hit the three is a lethal combination.
You understand (I hope) we'll have a team dominated by inside players and questions on replacing a PG in an offense that has been more about driving the ball to the basket than passing it inside? Right?
With the makeup of this coming year and the style Crean has always employed, I have serious reservations on how it will all play out. Unless his approach changes (which I doubt) it's not a good mix or use of personnel.
I understand some. The interior play is what will set this team apart. The team demonstrated an ability to adjust last year. This team is not one sided, i.e guard play and weak interior, as was the case with some IU teams.
Guard play.
Think about that one for a moment.
Think about how Crean like to play - with players taking the ball with the dribble-drive to the basket and players cutting along the baseline to get open for 3's. WHO on this offense is gonna be that guy?
Newkirk? I've heard a lot of hype on the kid, and he hopefully gained a lot of experience sitting a year watching Yogi and (hopefully) learning the IU offense Crean wants to run.
Johnson? iirc he had one of the worst turnover ratios of anyone on the team last year not named Troy Williams.
JBJr? Let's be serious . . .
This team for the upcoming season has a lot of great components. But it has a LOT of questions regarding PG play and leadership that need to be resolved before any level of consistency can be expected.
You seem to be one of the few on here who does not see how really good this team will probably be. The hype on Newkirk sounds legit so I fully expect him to be a capable point guard.
Just let the season play out since neither one of you are right or wrong right now since we really have no clue how well we will play this year.
I see a player with NBA aspirations who is playing NBA level defense to support those aspirations.
I'm a bit skeptical myself. Not the same O without Yogi. Hoping size and D make up the difference. Not Crean bashing but I'm also a little bit worried about how it will all mesh. He's had good talent on some teams that just never got it going.
When have you ever seen JBJr play collegiate-level defense - let alone NBA-level? Serious question.
I'd like to chime in! just looking at a few numbers,stats and the like. BTW I got all this off Wikipedia so I'm no genius. Anyway in the 2011-12 season IU/CTC went 27-9. Made it to the S16. Beat #1 KY. ; #2 OSU ;and # 5 MSU..
2012-13 season they were ranked #1 for 10 weeks. And all but two weeks of the season were in the top 5. They also won the B10 reg season ,outright, for the first time in 20 years ( hard to believe I knowo)! And another S16
2013-14 the team flamed out with a 17-15 record. And again in 2014-15 with a 20-14 record. Finishing 8th and 7th respectively in the B10. To add to that their roster wasn't all that bad , On paper anyway. And for whatever reason the team chemistry / team psychology was, well, NOT very good!
IU/CTC rebounded nicely in 2015-16 after a SLOW start. Winning the B10 reg season outright again. Reaching the S16 for the 3rd time in 5 years. All while posting another 27 win season going 27-8.
Heres the rub. It could be said that IU/CTC really didn't look very well in route to posting those numbers in either the 2011-12 or the 2012-13 seasons. On top of that fizzling out the way they did at the end of the 2012-13 campaign (remember the embarrassing loss to Syracuse).
But upon further investigation Marquette's final 4 season and IU's most dominant season had this in common. Supers in Dwyane Wade and Cody Zeller! To clarify I like Victor Olidipo just about as well as the next guy. But I've always have been of the mind that Cody Zeller was The most important piece to that puzzle. Just one mans thought opinion!! Those teams were also blessed with great supporting casts!!
So to date it would seem that CTC certainly needs a difference maker or two on the roster and again GREAT supporting casts. And I'm thinking he may have learned a thing or two about roster makeup. Or lets say he certainly has a template of what works and doesn't work certainly here at INDIANA! . And repeats of 2013-14 and 2014-15 can certainly get you fired!!
So the question is can he continually maintain a program of that kilt? I can't stress enough that I believe that the fans of Indiana basketball want style of play coupled with players that they can identify with. Your'e always going to have a couple guys leave early. But for the most part I just don't believe that's how Indiana fans interprets basketball.
2012-13 season they were ranked #1 for 10 weeks. And all but two weeks of the season were in the top 5. They also won the B10 reg season ,outright, for the first time in 20 years ( hard to believe I knowo)! And another S16
2013-14 the team flamed out with a 17-15 record. And again in 2014-15 with a 20-14 record. Finishing 8th and 7th respectively in the B10. To add to that their roster wasn't all that bad , On paper anyway. And for whatever reason the team chemistry / team psychology was, well, NOT very good!
IU/CTC rebounded nicely in 2015-16 after a SLOW start. Winning the B10 reg season outright again. Reaching the S16 for the 3rd time in 5 years. All while posting another 27 win season going 27-8.
Heres the rub. It could be said that IU/CTC really didn't look very well in route to posting those numbers in either the 2011-12 or the 2012-13 seasons. On top of that fizzling out the way they did at the end of the 2012-13 campaign (remember the embarrassing loss to Syracuse).
But upon further investigation Marquette's final 4 season and IU's most dominant season had this in common. Supers in Dwyane Wade and Cody Zeller! To clarify I like Victor Olidipo just about as well as the next guy. But I've always have been of the mind that Cody Zeller was The most important piece to that puzzle. Just one mans thought opinion!! Those teams were also blessed with great supporting casts!!
So to date it would seem that CTC certainly needs a difference maker or two on the roster and again GREAT supporting casts. And I'm thinking he may have learned a thing or two about roster makeup. Or lets say he certainly has a template of what works and doesn't work certainly here at INDIANA! . And repeats of 2013-14 and 2014-15 can certainly get you fired!!
So the question is can he continually maintain a program of that kilt? I can't stress enough that I believe that the fans of Indiana basketball want style of play coupled with players that they can identify with. Your'e always going to have a couple guys leave early. But for the most part I just don't believe that's how Indiana fans interprets basketball.
Maybe you missed the snark....The NBA doesn't play defense....OK, there...I said it. Why that was even necessary is puzzling.
Lol . . . Yeah, I missed it!
Stevie Wonder could see that one from 5 miles away. I'm such a moron at times smh
You're on track here.
Without Zeller IU is like 1-9 vs Purdue. Crean runs a system that heavily relies on having elite talent but he's only had a few. Zeller came from an IU town. Wade was a find. Yogi was unique as a 5-11 Dynamo and TB practically fell to us with the issues Syracuse had at the time. JBJr still is a wait-and-see, not an impact performer like Cody, Wade or Yogi.
Other than those guys, Crean has had quite a few players in the top 40-100 in prep rankings. Nothing wrong with that, mind you, unless you can't coach that level of recruit up enough to play at an elite level.
That's the conundrum with Tom Crean. He's not a bad coach, but he's not great, either. And a place like IU deserves better than what he is.
Just so you know:
1. I think Morgan and Anunoby and Bryant and would be happy to drive the baseline and slam it.
2. Me too. I am curious who will be an effective point guard post Yogi.
3. Johnson is a good point guard in this offense -- give him a chance. He won't play like Yogi, but who would???
4. Does anyone doubt that Bryant will be the leader of this team?
1) I think Bryant going baseline isn't what he meant
2) I don't understand how people look past this
3) RJs TO% was higher than TWs...he has a long way to go to be a good pg in any offense
4) If TB doesn't learn to control his emotions better, I'd prefer the leader be RJ
I'd rather be an IU fan with low to moderate expectations (actually, many of us still have high expectations) than a pUKe fan. Who would aspire to be Casual Gay Marie, who has high expectations for pUKe?
What an inartful dodge of the issue. Long live lowered expectations. "We're #9-16!"
You're correct
Me neither.
But hey, being good just happens, right? We don't need to worry about HOW that happens . . .
I really like Robert, but I cannot see him making a jump from where he was last year to what he would need to be for this team at PG.
And I challenge ANYONE top show me a player who has made such an improvement from one year to another - a guy with a high TO rate as an off-ball guard to the primary ball-handler. IF it ever has happened, it's likely rare.
One of my favorite moments from last year was when TB got into Yogi's grill.
Does he need to improve his emotions? Maybe - but that showed me he cared about what was gong on. Pretty sad that a 4-yr PG had to be called out by a frosh, but it did he the team get better.
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