Thoughts on recruiting....

[bsmitty08]

Just curious as to what people think about our recruiting the last few classes. Has Crean changed his tactics and started going after lower ranked players he thinks he can develop or is he just struggling to land the top talent?

The last two classes have 8 players between the classes...
Only two top 50 recruits
Bryant at #27
Davis at #35
One other top 100 in Jones at #69

The rest:
3* OG
3* Morgan
3* Green
3* McSwain
2* Gelon

I know rankings are not the end before someone uses that but it defiantly hasn't hurt the Duke, Kansas, UNC's, UK's of the world. So in saying that I think the 17 class is the class Crean needs to restock with some elite guys.

 

[SNU0821]

Just curious as to what people think about our recruiting the last few classes. Has Crean changed his tactics and started going after lower ranked players he thinks he can develop or is he just struggling to land the top talent?

The last two classes have 8 players between the classes...
Only two top 50 recruits
Bryant at #27
Davis at #35
One other top 100 in Jones at #69

The rest:
3* OG
3* Morgan
3* Green
3* McSwain
2* Gelon

I know rankings are not the end before someone uses that but it defiantly hasn't hurt the Duke, Kansas, UNC's, UK's of the world. So in saying that I think the 17 class is the class Crean needs to restock with some elite guys.

I think given the uncertainty (or at least perceived uncertainty) of whether or not Crean would still be around, he's done a pretty good job. Rabjohns and Peegs have mentioned that this past year along with Bryant's returning has really helped in recruiting. I think the '17 class is gonna be a good one. Hopefully the class starts with Wilkes and Scruggs.

 

[bsmitty08]

I think given the uncertainty (or at least perceived uncertainty) of whether or not Crean would still be around, he's done a pretty good job. Rabjohns and Peegs have mentioned that this past year along with Bryant's returning has really helped in recruiting. I think the '17 class is gonna be a good one. Hopefully the class starts with Wilkes and Scruggs.

That makes sense.....and I hope you are right and 17 is a great class.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Just curious as to what people think about our recruiting the last few classes. Has Crean changed his tactics and started going after lower ranked players he thinks he can develop or is he just struggling to land the top talent?

The last two classes have 8 players between the classes...
Only two top 50 recruits
Bryant at #27
Davis at #35
One other top 100 in Jones at #69

The rest:
3* OG
3* Morgan
3* Green
3* McSwain
2* Gelon

I know rankings are not the end before someone uses that but it defiantly hasn't hurt the Duke, Kansas, UNC's, UK's of the world. So in saying that I think the 17 class is the class Crean needs to restock with some elite guys.

The backcourt positions have probably been a difficult sell with highly regarded players already here. The frontcourt is where he needed to make hay and I think both Bryant and Davis are outstanding. Morgan was rated as a 4 star by Scout and ESPN and Anunoby appears to be much better than advertised.

I don't know if it's on purpose or not, but he's recruiting exactly the way I like. I wouldn't even consider a kid who only had aspirations of playing one year of college ball. I would be very happy if Vonleh is the last one I ever see at IU.

There are plenty of things that I don't particularly care for about Crean, but recruiting hasn't really been one of those things.

 

[bsmitty08]

The backcourt positions have probably been a difficult sell with highly regarded players already here. The frontcourt is where he needed to make hay and I think both Bryant and Davis are outstanding. Morgan was rated as a 4 star by Scout and ESPN and Anunoby appears to be much better than advertised.

I don't know if it's on purpose or not, but he's recruiting exactly the way I like. I wouldn't even consider a kid who only had aspirations of playing one year of college ball. I would be very happy if Vonleh is the last one I ever see at IU.

There are plenty of things that I don't particularly care for about Crean, but recruiting hasn't really been one of those things.

I don't love the one and dones but I think you have to land some of them if you want to compete for national titles. Pretty sure you would have been ok with okafor, Jones and Winslow.
Crean has found some good glue guys like Hartman, Morgan, Rojo, NZ but he needs to land some elite players with the glue guys.

 

[Paterfamilias]

I don't love the one and dones but I think you have to land some of them if you want to compete for national titles. Pretty sure you would have been ok with okafor, Jones and Winslow.
Crean has found some good glue guys like Hartman, Morgan, Rojo, NZ but he needs to land some elite players with the glue guys.

If they are pretty much guaranteed to only play one season, then no I wouldn't be OK with it. It's not some ethical thing either. I just think that roster continuity is more important and more enjoyable as a fan. I think you can build a championship level program without the revolving door, mercenary type of approach.

 

[Paterfamilias]

I would make one exception to my rule though. I would take an Indiana kid who wanted to play at IU even if he was a one and done. It's good for the program and the fans to have the best from Indiana play at IU.

 

[Optimist13]

I don't love the one and dones but I think you have to land some of them if you want to compete for national titles. Pretty sure you would have been ok with okafor, Jones and Winslow.
Crean has found some good glue guys like Hartman, Morgan, Rojo, NZ but he needs to land some elite players with the glue guys.

How many "OneAnd Dones" did Nova have last season?

 

[SNU0821]

How many "OneAnd Dones" did Nova have last season?

How many did Duke have the year before?

 

[bsmitty08]

How many "OneAnd Dones" did Nova have last season?

None....but are they quite possibly the exception maybe? Also they had a lot highly rated players. 7 4 star or better of the primary rotation.

 

[Paterfamilias]

It appears that 13 of the 16 teams that played in the National Title game over the past 8 seasons did not have a one-and-done on their roster. I'm going to double check and maybe even go a little further back.

 

[bsmitty08]

It appears that 13 of the 16 teams that played in the National Title game over the past 8 seasons did not have a one-and-done on their roster. I'm going to double check and maybe even go a little further back.

Elite recruiting also doesn't have to be one and dones....quote a few 5 stars stay more than a year....Zeller, Yogi, Swanigan, decker, etc...

Like I said the last two classes we have only landed 3/8 that were top 100 recruits. Hopefully they all pan out. oG looks to be one and Morganwill be a solid role player

 

[bsmitty08]

It appears that 13 of the 16 teams that played in the National Title game over the past 8 seasons did not have a one-and-done on their roster. I'm going to double check and maybe even go a little further back.

Also most of the one and dones are going to a select few schools for the most part.

 

[Paterfamilias]

18 of the 24 teams who have participated in the National Championship game in the one-and-done era did not have a one-and-done on their roster. 9 of the 12 Champions did not have a one-and-done on their roster.

 

[bsmitty08]

18 of the 24 teams who have participated in the National Championship game in the one-and-done era did not have a one-and-done on their roster. 9 of the 12 Champions did not have a one-and-done on their roster.

How many had 5 stars and McD's AA.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Elite recruiting also doesn't have to be one and dones....quote a few 5 stars stay more than a year....Zeller, Yogi, Swanigan, decker, etc...

Like I said the last two classes we have only landed 3/8 that were top 100 recruits. Hopefully they all pan out. oG looks to be one and Morganwill be a solid role player

I get what you're saying. I'm just pointing out that chasing one-and-dones is not necessary to compete for a title.

 

[bsmitty08]

I get what you're saying. I'm just pointing out that chasing one-and-dones is not necessary to compete for a title.

Top talent is though.....whether they are a one and done or a 2-3 and done.

 

[tru123dt]

I would make one exception to my rule though. I would take an Indiana kid who wanted to play at IU even if he was a one and done. It's good for the program and the fans to have the best from Indiana play at IU.

Hint Hint... Wink Wink.... Lets get Romeo Lankford! We have a great shot at landing him!

 

[ORG]

Just curious as to what people think about our recruiting the last few classes. Has Crean changed his tactics and started going after lower ranked players he thinks he can develop or is he just struggling to land the top talent?

The last two classes have 8 players between the classes...
Only two top 50 recruits
Bryant at #27
Davis at #35
One other top 100 in Jones at #69

The rest:
3* OG
3* Morgan
3* Green
3* McSwain
2* Gelon

I know rankings are not the end before someone uses that but it defiantly hasn't hurt the Duke, Kansas, UNC's, UK's of the world. So in saying that I think the 17 class is the class Crean needs to restock with some elite guys.

Eah year I think CTC goes after the best possible talent that wants to come to IU. Some years he ends up with more than one top 50 talent, other years he has more top 50 talent and in some years he finds players who have the potential to play like top 50 talent.

 

[Paterfamilias]

How many had 5 stars and McD's AA.

IU has had 5 star players and McD AA's too. In fact I think this will be our 5th straight season with multiple McD AA's on our roster.

 

[bsmitty08]

IU has had 5 star players and McD AA's too. In fact I think this will be our 5th straight season with multiple McD AA's on our roster.

Yes we do.....and like I said our recruiting has dipped a tad in the last two classes. We will see if not having any in a year from now hurts the roster.

 

[ORG]

If they are pretty much guaranteed to only play one season, then no I wouldn't be OK with it. It's not some ethical thing either. I just think that roster continuity is more important and more enjoyable as a fan. I think you can build a championship level program without the revolving door, mercenary type of approach.

I have no problem with a 1aD player if he wants to play for IU, wants to improve at IU and wants to be a team player. More than one 1aD is much more problematic for me. However, the probability of signing two 1aDs in the same year is very small IMHO.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Btw Smitty, I agree with most of what you post. I would just like to, at the very least, see a sophomore season.

 

[bailey777]

I think given the uncertainty (or at least perceived uncertainty) of whether or not Crean would still be around, he's done a pretty good job. Rabjohns and Peegs have mentioned that this past year along with Bryant's returning has really helped in recruiting. I think the '17 class is gonna be a good one. Hopefully the class starts with Wilkes and Scruggs.

I think he has done a great job and I would not be surprised if 2017 ends up top 10.

 

[Paterfamilias]

Here's a great stat. I looked at those 18 teams that have played in the National Title game in the one-and-done era (without a one-and-done) and amazingly only two players (Jalen Brunson and Glenn Robinson III) were among the top 5 scorers on their team and a 5 star freshmen. In fact the 18 teams only combined to have six 5 star frosh combined. Also, 13 of the 24 Title Game teams didn't have either a one-and-done or even a 5 star frosh on the team.

Here is the full list of 5 * Frosh from the 18 teams without a one-and-done

Jalen Brunson (Villanova) 2016
Glenn Robinson III (Michigan )2013
Ryan Kelly (Duke) 2010
Andre Dawkins (Duke) 2010
Ed Davis (UNC) 2009
Delvon Roe (MSU) 2009

 

[bsmitty08]

Here's a great stat. I looked at those 18 teams that have played in the National Title game in the one-and-done era (without a one-and-done) and amazingly only two players (Jalen Brunson and Glenn Robinson III) were among the top 5 scorers on their team and a 5 star freshmen. In fact the 18 teams only combined to have six 5 star frosh combined. Also, 13 of the 24 Title Game teams didn't have either a one-and-done or even a 5 star frosh on the team.

Jalen Brunson (Villanova) 2016
Glenn Robinson III (Michigan )2013
Ryan Kelly (Duke) 2010
Andre Dawkins (Duke) 2010
Ed Davis (UNC) 2009
Delvon Roe (MSU) 2009

Not sure what that stat means though? Maybe the team had a lot of talent?

 

[Paterfamilias]

I think it means that experience still wins titles (most of the time). That great Frosh isn't doing you much good if he doesn't become a Soph.

 

[bsmitty08]

I think it means that experience still wins titles (most of the time). That great Frosh isn't doing you much good if he doesn't become a Soph.

I wouldn't say he doesn't do much good....take Duke for example. okafor and Jones led that team to a tile despite being freshman. Had the 13 IU team won the title would you say yogi would have had o I pact on that if he was a one and done? If Vonleh was on a better team I would say he would have been a difference maker.

 

[bsmitty08]

I do think experience is very important though.

 

[Paterfamilias]

I wouldn't say he doesn't do much good....take Duke for example. okafor and Jones led that team to a tile despite being freshman. Had the 13 IU team won the title would you say yogi would have had o I pact on that if he was a one and done? If Vonleh was on a better team I would say he would have been a difference maker.

I'm not saying they don't have impact. Earlier you sad that you thought you needed to be in the One-and-Done game to some degree to compete for a title. History shows that in the One-and-Done era that

• 18 of 24 Title Game teams didn't have a One-and-Done Frosh
• 16 of 24 didn't have a One-and-Done or even a 5-Star frosh among their top 5 scorers
• 13 of 24 didn't have a One-and-Done or even a 5-Star frosh on the roster

Unless it's a Calipari or Coach K coached team it just seems that the very highly regarded frosh have not been the reason for advancement to the Title Game.

 

[bsmitty08]

I'm not saying they don't have impact. Earlier you sad that you thought you needed to be in the One-and-Done game to some degree to compete for a title. History shows that in the One-and-Done era that

• 18 of 24 Title Game teams didn't have a One-and-Done Frosh
• 16 of 24 didn't have a One-and-Done or even a 5-Star frosh among their top 5 scorers
• 13 of 24 didn't have a One-and-Done or even a 5-Star frosh on the roster

Unless it's a Calipari or Coach K coached team it just seems that the very highly regarded frosh have not been the reason for advancement to the Title Game.

But most of those kids are going to Cal, Self or coach K. Boeheim won a title with a freshman leading him to a title and almost did it again this year with Richardson. My whole point in this thread was to point out our recruiting has slipped some when it comes to tankings

 

[Paterfamilias]

But most of those kids are going to Cal, Self or coach K. Boeheim won a title with a freshman leading him to a title and almost did it again this year with Richardson. My whole point in this thread was to point out our recruiting has slipped some when it comes to tankings

Sorry about the derailment! You make a good point here and I would like to see other teams start taking some of those elite players away from Duke and UK. That may be a good enough reason to try to get one or two a year just to block them from stockpiling. Then we probably get to your original point... can we even get the elite players?

 

[SNU0821]

I get what you're saying. I'm just pointing out that chasing one-and-dones is not necessary to compete for a title.

Probably should just say 5* players instead of 1 and dones.

 

[TheSpa]

Sorry about the derailment! You make a good point here and I would like to see other teams start taking some of those elite players away from Duke and UK. That may be a good enough reason to try to get one or two a year just to block them from stockpiling. Then we probably get to your original point... can we even get the elite players?

During your period of study, how many national champs had at least one one and done player?

 

[Paterfamilias]

During your period of study, how many national champs had at least one one and done player?

3 of the 12 Title Winners had at least 1.

2005 UNC (Marvin Williams)
2012 UK (several)
2015 Duke (several)

 

[Paterfamilias]

Probably should just say 5* players instead of 1 and dones.

I think landing 5* players is important, just not so much the ones that are intent on leaving after 1 season. Cody, Yogi and hopefully Blackmon have been key contributors.

 

[SNU0821]

I think landing 5* players is important, just not so much the ones that are intent on leaving after 1 season. Cody, Yogi and hopefully Blackmon have been key contributors.

How many of the prior national champions had a McDonalds All American on their team? I would guess a lot.

 

[bsmitty08]

I think landing 5* players is important, just not so much the ones that are intent on leaving after 1 season. Cody, Yogi and hopefully Blackmon have been key contributors.

If you are landing 5 stars every year and some are one and dones it is not a determinant to your success. Brandon Ingram leaving after one won't hurt duke next year because they replaced him with the number 1 class in the country.

 

[Paterfamilias]

If you are landing 5 stars every year and some are one and dones it is not a determinant to your success. Brandon Ingram leaving after one won't hurt duke next year because they replaced him with the number 1 class in the country.

True, but pertaining to this discussion at least Brandon Ingram didn't play in the Title game either. Duke or UK may very well win it again this year with multiple One-and-Done players... we'll see.

 

[bsmitty08]

True, but pertaining to this discussion at least Brandon Ingram didn't play in the Title game either. Duke or UK may very well win it again this year with multiple One-and-Done players... we'll see.

In all fairness...unless you are Duke or UK loading up on the I don't think it's good for schools to randomly pull a one and done because they don't replace them with another instant impact guy. I think Crean has done better at building a roster but his dip in recruiting may hurt him unless the 17 class is a HR.