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Thoughts after watching the UM game while overly caffeinated

Crusty The Baker

Redshirt
Nov 7, 2021
190
377
63
Hi. I’ve been reading this board since 1997 or so. First time posting since probably the Hep years. I guess it took me 15 years to reset my password. I drank tea in the afternoon on accident and can’t sleep, so you all get to read what’s rattling around my brain re: IU Football.

Here are some things I noticed:

1. I missed Stevie Scott. His pass protection from the running back position was huge last year in giving the WRs time to get open and Penix/Tuttle time to find them. That was completely absent from the UM game and was probably not even a reasonable expectation after Carr went out. Sampson James could have played that role and made a huge difference. Those seconds that Stevie bought a healthy Penix and a healthy Tuttle led to Ws. Of course, that RB pass protection is critical because…

2. Caleb Jones is as good as it gets at tackle in our locker room, and that’s not good. I have a lot of respect for Jones. He’s giving his all out there doing what he can. He seems strong, but he just doesn’t have the feet or the bend to contend with the future pro D-linemen he’s up against. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s playing hurt. We used a few different line combos at UM. Bedford at LT and Jones at RT got eaten alive by the UM DEs. Bedford at LT was stood up every play. The combo of Jones at LT and Bedford at LG seemed to work, except that left Weaver/Carpenter at RG and Rafferty at RT and that didn’t work so well. (I’m assuming that the players we haven’t seen aren’t ready. I’m also assuming that Aaron Wellman knows how to train and condition O-linemen. This is Wellman’s first year really working with the players in person in facility.)

3. Haggard’s absence had an effect. He’s not an awesome tackle, but he’s a decent one. Imagine if we hadn’t plucked him out of JUCO. (Actually you don’t have to because we saw that at Iowa and at UM.) With him out, we’re 80% of the way to an O-line that needs full time backfield pass protection, which we don’t have. Now imagine how different the season would be with just one or two 2nd or 3rd Team All-Big Ten level OTs. Hopefully at least two of the younger players have the physical tools to be decent Big Ten OTs and are developing the right bodies and skills.

4. I feel some compassion for Coach Hiller, and all O-line coaches at schools that aren’t set up to be NFL O-line prep academies. To do that, you need to be running an offense that uses NFL blocking schemes. You need the strength and conditioning staff. You need to be able to convince the few young men that are quick on their feet at ~310 lbs, flexible enough to get low, durable enough to collisions 60 times a game, and have the instincts and attitude to find rushers and finish blocks that you can help them get to the NFL. IU has invested in strength and conditioning facilities and staff. Dunno about the rest.

5. I feel some compassion for Coach Sheridan. The dude is 33 years old doing this for the first time. He’s got a 49 year old RB coach/associate head coach who won a Super Bowl last year, a 49 year old embattled OL coach, and a 43 year old WR coach/co-offensive coordinator. That whole staff needs to be all about mutual success and designing something together that works with what they’ve got and get the players to buy in. Oh by the way, the O-line is what it is. You lose your top 4 running backs from 2020 by Week 4 (Scott, James, Ellis, Baldwin) and your only true slot receiver with any experience (Matthews) who replaced a real difference maker in Whop. Then you lose QB3 in camp, then QB1 (who arguably should have taken more time to recover from a third devastating injury), then QB2 Tuttle (who was QB1 in spring; who knows how the season would have turned out had he gone through Fall Camp as QB1 and started at Iowa), and you’re left with a true freshman QB4 and a walk on QB5.

6. D played pretty well, considering they’re playing with 2nd and 3rd team CBs.

7. I don’t love how this staff seems ok with rushing players back from injury. Penix is the biggest example, but also Mullen and Taylor. There seems to be a theme of wishful thinking/not having player health and well being top of mind. Maybe that’s my imagination.

This has been a miserable football season for sure. In retrospect, the stage was set in large part before the Iowa game. It’s true that defense wins championships, but even elite defenses rarely score enough on their own to win. If you can’t move the ball on offense and keep your defense fresh, you’re doomed. This IU team lost too many important offensive pieces from 2020 and was finished off by key injuries throughout the roster.

Go IU, beat Rutger, POTFB, etc.
 
7. I don’t love how this staff seems ok with rushing players back from injury. Penix is the biggest example, but also Mullen and Taylor. There seems to be a theme of wishful thinking/not having player health and well being top of mind. Maybe that’s my imagination.
I don’t know whose decision it was, but Penix wasn’t ready. ACL rehab takes 12 months.
 
Hi. I’ve been reading this board since 1997 or so. First time posting since probably the Hep years. I guess it took me 15 years to reset my password. I drank tea in the afternoon on accident and can’t sleep, so you all get to read what’s rattling around my brain re: IU Football.

Here are some things I noticed:

1. I missed Stevie Scott. His pass protection from the running back position was huge last year in giving the WRs time to get open and Penix/Tuttle time to find them. That was completely absent from the UM game and was probably not even a reasonable expectation after Carr went out. Sampson James could have played that role and made a huge difference. Those seconds that Stevie bought a healthy Penix and a healthy Tuttle led to Ws. Of course, that RB pass protection is critical because…

2. Caleb Jones is as good as it gets at tackle in our locker room, and that’s not good. I have a lot of respect for Jones. He’s giving his all out there doing what he can. He seems strong, but he just doesn’t have the feet or the bend to contend with the future pro D-linemen he’s up against. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s playing hurt. We used a few different line combos at UM. Bedford at LT and Jones at RT got eaten alive by the UM DEs. Bedford at LT was stood up every play. The combo of Jones at LT and Bedford at LG seemed to work, except that left Weaver/Carpenter at RG and Rafferty at RT and that didn’t work so well. (I’m assuming that the players we haven’t seen aren’t ready. I’m also assuming that Aaron Wellman knows how to train and condition O-linemen. This is Wellman’s first year really working with the players in person in facility.)

3. Haggard’s absence had an effect. He’s not an awesome tackle, but he’s a decent one. Imagine if we hadn’t plucked him out of JUCO. (Actually you don’t have to because we saw that at Iowa and at UM.) With him out, we’re 80% of the way to an O-line that needs full time backfield pass protection, which we don’t have. Now imagine how different the season would be with just one or two 2nd or 3rd Team All-Big Ten level OTs. Hopefully at least two of the younger players have the physical tools to be decent Big Ten OTs and are developing the right bodies and skills.

4. I feel some compassion for Coach Hiller, and all O-line coaches at schools that aren’t set up to be NFL O-line prep academies. To do that, you need to be running an offense that uses NFL blocking schemes. You need the strength and conditioning staff. You need to be able to convince the few young men that are quick on their feet at ~310 lbs, flexible enough to get low, durable enough to collisions 60 times a game, and have the instincts and attitude to find rushers and finish blocks that you can help them get to the NFL. IU has invested in strength and conditioning facilities and staff. Dunno about the rest.

5. I feel some compassion for Coach Sheridan. The dude is 33 years old doing this for the first time. He’s got a 49 year old RB coach/associate head coach who won a Super Bowl last year, a 49 year old embattled OL coach, and a 43 year old WR coach/co-offensive coordinator. That whole staff needs to be all about mutual success and designing something together that works with what they’ve got and get the players to buy in. Oh by the way, the O-line is what it is. You lose your top 4 running backs from 2020 by Week 4 (Scott, James, Ellis, Baldwin) and your only true slot receiver with any experience (Matthews) who replaced a real difference maker in Whop. Then you lose QB3 in camp, then QB1 (who arguably should have taken more time to recover from a third devastating injury), then QB2 Tuttle (who was QB1 in spring; who knows how the season would have turned out had he gone through Fall Camp as QB1 and started at Iowa), and you’re left with a true freshman QB4 and a walk on QB5.

6. D played pretty well, considering they’re playing with 2nd and 3rd team CBs.

7. I don’t love how this staff seems ok with rushing players back from injury. Penix is the biggest example, but also Mullen and Taylor. There seems to be a theme of wishful thinking/not having player health and well being top of mind. Maybe that’s my imagination.

This has been a miserable football season for sure. In retrospect, the stage was set in large part before the Iowa game. It’s true that defense wins championships, but even elite defenses rarely score enough on their own to win. If you can’t move the ball on offense and keep your defense fresh, you’re doomed. This IU team lost too many important offensive pieces from 2020 and was finished off by key injuries throughout the roster.

Go IU, beat Rutger, POTFB, etc.
Good post. Come back more often.

Not sure we (fans) are in a position to determine whether players are being rushed back from injury. Penix for example never looked comfortable this season, but there's no way for us to know whether it's because he was still gimpy, whether he feared for his safety (which would be understandable) behind that offensive line, whether one of the coaches was in his head too much and he was overthinking, all of the above or none of the above. I trust Allen and the staff to follow the medical advice they're receiving on players.

Finally, regarding your #4, no, we're not exactly Offensive Line U, but take a look at the 1s and 2s on the depth chart and their offer lists coming out of high school. Gone are the days where we were competing with MAC schools for our offensive talent. Virtually all of the guys on the OL had other P5 offers, and usually several offers. While we won six conference games last season, it was in spite of the OL, not because of it, and it's worse this season. Hiller isn't getting it done.
 
You make some good points, especially in regards to pass blocking from RBs.

I don't see why we don't go back to an offense similar to what Debeor used to get the ball out of the QB's hands quickly.

If you can get the ball out quickly, then you negate the the ability of the pass rush. Similar to backdoor passes in basketball when defenders are crowding you on the outside. If you can use the pass rush against them, then they might have to adjust for that.
 
Hi. I’ve been reading this board since 1997 or so. First time posting since probably the Hep years. I guess it took me 15 years to reset my password. I drank tea in the afternoon on accident and can’t sleep, so you all get to read what’s rattling around my brain re: IU Football.

Here are some things I noticed:

1. I missed Stevie Scott. His pass protection from the running back position was huge last year in giving the WRs time to get open and Penix/Tuttle time to find them. That was completely absent from the UM game and was probably not even a reasonable expectation after Carr went out. Sampson James could have played that role and made a huge difference. Those seconds that Stevie bought a healthy Penix and a healthy Tuttle led to Ws. Of course, that RB pass protection is critical because…

2. Caleb Jones is as good as it gets at tackle in our locker room, and that’s not good. I have a lot of respect for Jones. He’s giving his all out there doing what he can. He seems strong, but he just doesn’t have the feet or the bend to contend with the future pro D-linemen he’s up against. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s playing hurt. We used a few different line combos at UM. Bedford at LT and Jones at RT got eaten alive by the UM DEs. Bedford at LT was stood up every play. The combo of Jones at LT and Bedford at LG seemed to work, except that left Weaver/Carpenter at RG and Rafferty at RT and that didn’t work so well. (I’m assuming that the players we haven’t seen aren’t ready. I’m also assuming that Aaron Wellman knows how to train and condition O-linemen. This is Wellman’s first year really working with the players in person in facility.)

3. Haggard’s absence had an effect. He’s not an awesome tackle, but he’s a decent one. Imagine if we hadn’t plucked him out of JUCO. (Actually you don’t have to because we saw that at Iowa and at UM.) With him out, we’re 80% of the way to an O-line that needs full time backfield pass protection, which we don’t have. Now imagine how different the season would be with just one or two 2nd or 3rd Team All-Big Ten level OTs. Hopefully at least two of the younger players have the physical tools to be decent Big Ten OTs and are developing the right bodies and skills.

4. I feel some compassion for Coach Hiller, and all O-line coaches at schools that aren’t set up to be NFL O-line prep academies. To do that, you need to be running an offense that uses NFL blocking schemes. You need the strength and conditioning staff. You need to be able to convince the few young men that are quick on their feet at ~310 lbs, flexible enough to get low, durable enough to collisions 60 times a game, and have the instincts and attitude to find rushers and finish blocks that you can help them get to the NFL. IU has invested in strength and conditioning facilities and staff. Dunno about the rest.

5. I feel some compassion for Coach Sheridan. The dude is 33 years old doing this for the first time. He’s got a 49 year old RB coach/associate head coach who won a Super Bowl last year, a 49 year old embattled OL coach, and a 43 year old WR coach/co-offensive coordinator. That whole staff needs to be all about mutual success and designing something together that works with what they’ve got and get the players to buy in. Oh by the way, the O-line is what it is. You lose your top 4 running backs from 2020 by Week 4 (Scott, James, Ellis, Baldwin) and your only true slot receiver with any experience (Matthews) who replaced a real difference maker in Whop. Then you lose QB3 in camp, then QB1 (who arguably should have taken more time to recover from a third devastating injury), then QB2 Tuttle (who was QB1 in spring; who knows how the season would have turned out had he gone through Fall Camp as QB1 and started at Iowa), and you’re left with a true freshman QB4 and a walk on QB5.

6. D played pretty well, considering they’re playing with 2nd and 3rd team CBs.

7. I don’t love how this staff seems ok with rushing players back from injury. Penix is the biggest example, but also Mullen and Taylor. There seems to be a theme of wishful thinking/not having player health and well being top of mind. Maybe that’s my imagination.

This has been a miserable football season for sure. In retrospect, the stage was set in large part before the Iowa game. It’s true that defense wins championships, but even elite defenses rarely score enough on their own to win. If you can’t move the ball on offense and keep your defense fresh, you’re doomed. This IU team lost too many important offensive pieces from 2020 and was finished off by key injuries throughout the roster.

Go IU, beat Rutger, POTFB, etc.
Every.
Word.
 
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Good post. Come back more often.

Not sure we (fans) are in a position to determine whether players are being rushed back from injury. Penix for example never looked comfortable this season, but there's no way for us to know whether it's because he was still gimpy, whether he feared for his safety (which would be understandable) behind that offensive line, whether one of the coaches was in his head too much and he was overthinking, all of the above or none of the above. I trust Allen and the staff to follow the medical advice they're receiving on players.

Finally, regarding your #4, no, we're not exactly Offensive Line U, but take a look at the 1s and 2s on the depth chart and their offer lists coming out of high school. Gone are the days where we were competing with MAC schools for our offensive talent. Virtually all of the guys on the OL had other P5 offers, and usually several offers. While we won six conference games last season, it was in spite of the OL, not because of it, and it's worse this season. Hiller isn't getting it done.
Exactly, Hiller is the genesis of the failed OL. He never has coached B1G OL results.
 
Good post. We could use more of this reason and less blind sunshine around here.

With regards to Penix, I just think this is who he is. I think fans had unrealistic expectations based on the weak schedules the last couple years. He really seemed to blow up after that OSU game where he threw for a ton of yards and TDs. It was probably his best game but we were playing from a huge deficit and their D was playing super loose. You don’t get those coverages in close games.

I just think he was overrated from the beginning and the praise seemed to get to him. The injuries have certainly hurt but it’s not like the kid is ARE when healthy.
 
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Hi. I’ve been reading this board since 1997 or so. First time posting since probably the Hep years. I guess it took me 15 years to reset my password. I drank tea in the afternoon on accident and can’t sleep, so you all get to read what’s rattling around my brain re: IU Football.

Here are some things I noticed:

1. I missed Stevie Scott. His pass protection from the running back position was huge last year in giving the WRs time to get open and Penix/Tuttle time to find them. That was completely absent from the UM game and was probably not even a reasonable expectation after Carr went out. Sampson James could have played that role and made a huge difference. Those seconds that Stevie bought a healthy Penix and a healthy Tuttle led to Ws. Of course, that RB pass protection is critical because…

2. Caleb Jones is as good as it gets at tackle in our locker room, and that’s not good. I have a lot of respect for Jones. He’s giving his all out there doing what he can. He seems strong, but he just doesn’t have the feet or the bend to contend with the future pro D-linemen he’s up against. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s playing hurt. We used a few different line combos at UM. Bedford at LT and Jones at RT got eaten alive by the UM DEs. Bedford at LT was stood up every play. The combo of Jones at LT and Bedford at LG seemed to work, except that left Weaver/Carpenter at RG and Rafferty at RT and that didn’t work so well. (I’m assuming that the players we haven’t seen aren’t ready. I’m also assuming that Aaron Wellman knows how to train and condition O-linemen. This is Wellman’s first year really working with the players in person in facility.)

3. Haggard’s absence had an effect. He’s not an awesome tackle, but he’s a decent one. Imagine if we hadn’t plucked him out of JUCO. (Actually you don’t have to because we saw that at Iowa and at UM.) With him out, we’re 80% of the way to an O-line that needs full time backfield pass protection, which we don’t have. Now imagine how different the season would be with just one or two 2nd or 3rd Team All-Big Ten level OTs. Hopefully at least two of the younger players have the physical tools to be decent Big Ten OTs and are developing the right bodies and skills.

4. I feel some compassion for Coach Hiller, and all O-line coaches at schools that aren’t set up to be NFL O-line prep academies. To do that, you need to be running an offense that uses NFL blocking schemes. You need the strength and conditioning staff. You need to be able to convince the few young men that are quick on their feet at ~310 lbs, flexible enough to get low, durable enough to collisions 60 times a game, and have the instincts and attitude to find rushers and finish blocks that you can help them get to the NFL. IU has invested in strength and conditioning facilities and staff. Dunno about the rest.

5. I feel some compassion for Coach Sheridan. The dude is 33 years old doing this for the first time. He’s got a 49 year old RB coach/associate head coach who won a Super Bowl last year, a 49 year old embattled OL coach, and a 43 year old WR coach/co-offensive coordinator. That whole staff needs to be all about mutual success and designing something together that works with what they’ve got and get the players to buy in. Oh by the way, the O-line is what it is. You lose your top 4 running backs from 2020 by Week 4 (Scott, James, Ellis, Baldwin) and your only true slot receiver with any experience (Matthews) who replaced a real difference maker in Whop. Then you lose QB3 in camp, then QB1 (who arguably should have taken more time to recover from a third devastating injury), then QB2 Tuttle (who was QB1 in spring; who knows how the season would have turned out had he gone through Fall Camp as QB1 and started at Iowa), and you’re left with a true freshman QB4 and a walk on QB5.

6. D played pretty well, considering they’re playing with 2nd and 3rd team CBs.

7. I don’t love how this staff seems ok with rushing players back from injury. Penix is the biggest example, but also Mullen and Taylor. There seems to be a theme of wishful thinking/not having player health and well being top of mind. Maybe that’s my imagination.

This has been a miserable football season for sure. In retrospect, the stage was set in large part before the Iowa game. It’s true that defense wins championships, but even elite defenses rarely score enough on their own to win. If you can’t move the ball on offense and keep your defense fresh, you’re doomed. This IU team lost too many important offensive pieces from 2020 and was finished off by key injuries throughout the roster.

Go IU, beat Rutger, POTFB, etc.

Great post. Concerning #6, the defense...........It's been documented that Mullen didn't play up to last year's standard, even prior to the injury. As I recall, the D gave up a 65 yard TD run on the 4th play of the season. How many 60+ yard runs has Iowa had this season? I'm not sure, but I know it's not a lot.

Going from a top 20 D to a top 80 D cannot be explained merely by reference to the horrible offense. Going from 21 TOs in 8 games to 8 TOs in 8 games cannot be explained by bad luck or bad bounces.
 
Good post. Come back more often.

Not sure we (fans) are in a position to determine whether players are being rushed back from injury. Penix for example never looked comfortable this season, but there's no way for us to know whether it's because he was still gimpy, whether he feared for his safety (which would be understandable) behind that offensive line, whether one of the coaches was in his head too much and he was overthinking, all of the above or none of the above. I trust Allen and the staff to follow the medical advice they're receiving on players.

Finally, regarding your #4, no, we're not exactly Offensive Line U, but take a look at the 1s and 2s on the depth chart and their offer lists coming out of high school. Gone are the days where we were competing with MAC schools for our offensive talent. Virtually all of the guys on the OL had other P5 offers, and usually several offers. While we won six conference games last season, it was in spite of the OL, not because of it, and it's worse this season. Hiller isn't getting it done.
Thanks. I see your points. Re: #1, it was a gamble to declare Penix the starter before fall camp given his injury and his missing spring ball, the state of the O-line, the state of pass pro from the RB position, the departure of Whop, etc. Who knows how the decision was made? The gamble didn’t result in desired outcome. Was it the right decision? Dunno. There’s a lot those of us on the outside don’t see.

Re: o-line, our players do have better offer lists than past players. I have no clue how Hiller evaluates them or how they are developed when they get here. I can see how a lack of proper physical training and conditioning plus practice reps and game reps could absolutely wreck a kid’s body and lead to a regression in performance. Here’s a piece you might find interesting:

 
You make some good points, especially in regards to pass blocking from RBs.

I don't see why we don't go back to an offense similar to what Debeor used to get the ball out of the QB's hands quickly.

If you can get the ball out quickly, then you negate the the ability of the pass rush. Similar to backdoor passes in basketball when defenders are crowding you on the outside. If you can use the pass rush against them, then they might have to adjust for that.
Good question. Our WR room’s drop habit comes to mind. I think that Matthews and Ellis going down and Buckley not panning out were huge. Especially Matthews. He had hands and speed. Ellis was a threat to catch balls out of the backfield. Hendershot is coming on as the most reliable receiver. Ty Fry has dropped too many balls in key situations and isn’t getting the 50/50 balls. Who else? Marshall? Swinton?

PJP wrote a piece on this topic recently that you might enjoy:

We’ve got the horses to beat Rutger, though. It’ll be nice for the O-linemen to get a break from blocking multiple future NFL draft picks.
 
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Exactly, Hiller is the genesis of the failed OL. He never has coached B1G OL results.
He certainly has a big role in both evaluating recruits and in coaching. Aaron Wellman has a piece in terms of physical training. So does the rest of the offensive coaching staff. Hiller got results with players the previous staff recruited. I’m thinking of Wes Miller, Coy Cronk, and Brandon Knight. Lack of stability on the offensive staff in general probably has an effect.
 
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An excellent and sometimes ignored point is that you cannot shuffle OC's and staff as we have recently and not suffer the continuity and recruiting issues we are seeing. A stable staff is the first prerequisite for success. Lightning in a bottle is the exception, not the rule.
 
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