Gives me hope. These schools aren’t full of top 100 kids. They just play hard and play the right way. This IS the style that Archie wants to play and had his Dayton teams playing his last couple of years which is how he got to the elite 8. There are no guarantees, and I know whiney people are going to whine, but this gives me some optimism.
This game
- Thread starter wchew200
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The difference is Bennett and Beard can coach. You fanboys always concentrate on the players
I look forward to your whining when posters point out Archie isn't the guy.
Where was the point in his career that archie forgot how to coach? Or has he always just been a God awful coach?The difference is Bennett and Beard can coach. You fanboys always concentrate on the players
Look, we would all love a coach like Bennett that wins national titles in his second year at a school, but it's just not meant to be. Oh, what's that? Bennett went 15-16 and 16-15 his first two years at Virginia, you say? That's weird. Its almost like it takes some time for most coaches to get going at a new school. Novel concept.
I wonder how the geniuses on here would have evaluated Bennett's first two years at uva. I imagine it would have been breathtaking stuff.
Winning games at a mid-major doesn't mean someone is an elite coach. What happened to Shaka Smart? Brian Gregory? John Groce? Bennett's first two years at a Power 5 school he was 26-8 and 26-9, so I wouldn't have been, as concerned (I think it was the best two year stretch in school history).
Also, what were the expectations for Bennett's team in his 2nd year at Virginia ? Did they have two all conference players? Did Tony Bennett have a 5 star player coming in and a top 10 recruiting class? Also, when you watched all of their games, how did they look? Also, which school do you think it's harder to win (rebuild) at?
Your just a flat out idiot. Bennett was 15-16 and 16-15 his first 2 years at Virginia. Period. You got corrected and owned because of the idiot you are and you changed your narrative. If I choose to take the time, I will also own your whiney dumbass all day. Cry me a f’n River.
If you plan on owning me all day, you might want to work on reading comprehension and context. I highlighted the key passage for you. To save you some time, that Power 5 school was Washington State. Also, I was responding to hurrying76hoosier statement, "I wonder how the geniuses on here would have evaluated Bennett's first two years at uva." Now you can continue with your emotional rants, name calling, and "owning me".
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well, your own observation about WSU and then his struggles to start at UVA only supports CAM, not undermines him. Dayton is equivalent to WSU for Bennett, and yet they both struggled to get things going at their new school. Your points are valid but so is questioning how difficult it is to "change culture" as CAM as dealt with getting TC's roster to fit his new systems, and also such significant injury problems... did Tony Bennett deal with that in his first 2 years? There are certainly reasons to question CAM but it's also valid to think he can right the ship, as TB, and so many others, have.
They would have been on here pissing and moaning like they do now. Y1-15w no post season, Y2-16w no post season, Y3-22w NCAA first round loss, Y4-23w NIT.
They were ready to fire Archie halfway through his second season. No way they’d give Bennett 10 years before a FF or title.
You are aware that Bennett took over for his dad at WSU after serving as his top assistant the previous 3 years ? He helped build that program (and btw, they didn't have a winning record the first 3 years and didn't make the NCAAT) before taking over as head coach. He won 26 games with kids he recruited and had already coached.
Bennett at UVA and Archie at IU are similar situations. Bennett at WSU and Archie at IU are apples to horseshoes. But hey, whatever fits your predetermined narrative that Archie sucks and always will suck and is responsible for any and all failures at IU to make the tournament -go ahead and spew. Informed and rational folks know better.
I disagree with your first part. It's much more difficult to win at a Power 5 school than mid-major, especially WSU.
We do agree it's valid for people to think Archie can right the ship. I just happened to disagree with them.
I actually think Archie can right the ship at IU. The roster was very unbalanced, lacked shooters, BB IQ, and depth at the 5 and 4.
And can you imagine the $hit$how if CAM were to get beat in a 16/1 tournament game?
Yes, I was aware. You have no idea if Bennett at UVA and Archie at IU similar simulations. I listed 4 or 5 questions before and you answered zero of them.
Here they are again. What were the expectations for Bennett's team in his 2nd year at Virginia ? Did they have two all conference players? Did Tony Bennett have a 5 star player coming in and a top 10 recruiting class? Also, when you watched all of their games, how did they look? Also, which school do you think it's harder to win (rebuild) at?
You claimed that we only had the talent level (healthy players) to win 3 games this year in the big ten. You are neither informed or rational.
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I have softened on my Archie stance after catching my breath since the season's been over. Couple that with some interesting rumors floating around (some of which are likely true). I feel like we need another year or two to let Archie work the kinks out. Our goal next year should be NCAA tournament or bust, AND see major improvement throughout the season.
I don’t think the gripe with Archie has been so much about his records the first two years, but how this past year’s team fell so short of expectations (and how spectacular the meltdown was).
It would be different if everybody recognized that the roster was still deficient this year. Nobody gave Crean grief for his first two (three, really) years, because everybody knew he was starting from scratch.
So it’s not simply a matter of records. It’s a matter of records in context with reasonable expectations.
The team underperformed pretty badly this year. If that’s not on Archie, then who is it on?
1) we had continual problems with injuries. One of our best recruits never suited up, our best (starting?) 5 was out or hampered most of the season with lower leg injuries, Race was out most of the season with a concussion, and RP, DG and AD all missed multiple games. That's a lot of injuries. 2) If rumors are correct about a player messing with another's GF, that's going to rip a team apart... very much like happened with our mid-season swoon. No idea if it's true, but it sure seems to fit. I suppose you could blame Archie for his handling, but I don't see how that's on him... that's human failings, not coaching.
I can give him a pass on those 2 issues. However, I also think we should expect a tourney berth next year. Gonna be tough losing RL and JM, but that's another year to build his culture and at IU you should be able to assemble a tourney team in 3 years.
Did the team badly underperform or were expectations just way too high? I'm thinking its somewhere in the middle, but leaning towards expectations being too high. Romeo played well, but he didn't dominate like a conference POY candidate like many were expecting. Morgan played well, but he still spent much of the year needing to play the 5, which limited his personal productivity and limited lineups/rotations for the team. Then IU never had a consistent starting lineup and primary bench rotation because of all the injuries.
Ok, I'll humor you. How would I know what Bennett's expectations were in his 2nd year ? That's a subjective thing. Who's expectations ? Maybe some expected a final four. Stupid question, but I answered.
I don't know about the ACC all-conference team 10 years ago and I'm not bothering to look it up. But if you are suggesting that the fact that we had a 2nd-team all-conference player and an honorable mention should have meant great things, that's a hell of a stretch. It isn't like we had two first-team guys. And look what we had around them.
Again, I have no idea about the recruiting at VA. We had one recruit that didn't play a game and our 5-star had an injured hand that's going to require surgery. If you watched RL in high school, and watched his shooting this year, you see the impact of that.
I didnt' see any UVA games in Bennett's 2nd year. This year, I saw a veteran team with a hell of a lot of talent. This year at IU I saw a hospital ward with a bunch of leftover players from the previous regime that were decent because of, not in spite of, coaching.
Given that I don't know much about the basketball culture at UVA when Bennett took over, I couldn't say. But rebuilding requires talented players wherever you are. I didn't see many of those at IU, only one who was an upperclassman.
All of this is subjective. You believe we had enough talent to win more and didn't because we were poorly coached. Your opinion.
I believe we had gaping deficiencies in personnel, an extraordinary amount of injuries that killed depth and made practice and game preparation incredibly difficult, and a guy who did a damn good job given what he started with and the situations he dealt with. My opinion.
No offense, but I'll bet my house that my knowledge of the game and my experience make my opinion a whole lot more valid than yours.
Romeo was the leading scorer as a Freshman with an injured thumb that requires surgery. That may help explain why Romeo was a better perimeter shooter in HS. One lucky NBA team is going to draft Romeo lower than he should have been due to his thimb injury on his shooting hand. Hopefully Hunter will be able to play for IU and his career is not over due to health issues, he could become the wing shooter thst Romeo should have been without injury.
Whose expectations? Anyone can set expectations, but if they’re an idiot they’re probably not well founded or realistic...
Wanna compare rosters of Texas Tech, Virginia and IU?
In your initial post you claimed Archie and Bennett are in similar positions. I disagreed (which is why I asked the questions). You now admit you have no idea about Bennett and Virginia's situation. So, perhaps you shouldn't claim they are in similar situations?
I am ok with people stating opinions and agree with you there. That's the purpose of a forum and makes them enjoyable. I have played basketball at a high level, coached for several years, and could get a coaching job next year if I wanted one (so you can stop with the d#%k measuring contest at anytime). How about we just state opinions, back them of with facts (when possible), and see who is right more often? For example with Archie. You claim he is the guy and I claim he isn't. I'm sure we will continue to disagree until Archie gets fired or hangs banner number 6.
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Wash St may be the "least Power 5" school that exists in any P5 conference. It's much closer to mid-major Dayton than IU... or any B10 school. And, as others have said, he had a well planned transition from his Father and having been on staff for years prior. Poor comparison, and if you were honest with yourself, even you'd have to agree with that.
Sorry if I didn't make that clear. By similar situations I meant taking over someone else's team and building your program from scratch. When you talk about the talent left behind, how similarly or differently you plan to play, coaching style, inheriting kids who buy in, etc - then no two situations are alike.
My point is that knowing what Archie walked into, and the circumstances with injuries this year, I think he did a fine job. And while I do expect things to continue improving next year I realize that we are losing our two best players and the guys who remain are going to have to be better. When I watch Virginia play, I see what IU can be with better talent - not what the talent here could be with better coaching.
It also takes a ton of luck. VIrginia got some very favorable calls or non calls in the last three games. If that DD is called Saturday Virginia is not the champion.
Key additions to the 1987 IU Championship team were Jucos Dean Garrett and Keith Smart.
I could not have called that DD in real time, i thought the ball was deflected by the defensive player. You needed a much better angle to see that play correctly. In real time it looked like a deflection that I've seen hundreds of times.
Bad foul un that situation. He should have just stood there arms raised. His block attempt lost the game. Coach must not have stressed "no foul".
Jay Wright
John Calipari
John Beilein
Rick Pitino
Coach K.
Bob Huggins
Billy Donovan
Bill Self
Bob Knight
Guess what all these coaches have in common? They all started their head coaching careers at mid-majors.
You have not idea what he inherited!!!!!! Just give him 9 years to get this thing going.
The difference is Bennett and Beard can coach. You fanboys always concentrate on the players
An old saying among coaches goes something like, "It's not the X's and O's so much as the Johnnie's and Joe's".
