The Simons

[Bucket Getter]

Keep seeing how they are the $$ behind Buckner and Woody and much of our NIL war-chest. Obviously, the AH renovation and name plastered all over the place that used to scorn sponsorships of any kind tells a story.

After living through the mediocrity of our NBA franchise for the entirety of their ownership, I’m curious how anyone is impressed by their basketball acumen. Feels like they are simply using (abusing) two of this state’s most sacred institutions and brands as mere marketing tools with little (if any) regard for on-court success.

Never mind the fact they were far and away Joe Hogsett’s biggest donor in the last Indy mayoral election. Clearly they can use their money however they want and can steer elections to their ultimate benefit. That’s nothing new. But to openly promote the dude that has been a primary force in destroying a once-vibrant (and safe) downtown is mysterious to say the least. Their Circle Center Mall is kaput. Many other holdings sit vacant and crime flourishes.

I guess I’m not sure if there is an answer or solution to any of this, but I think the old adage about being careful of the company you keep is pertinent here.

 

[.Gerdis]

Were they Ware’s biggest backer?

Whoever is paying Ware hit a home run. It’s been a dream season for the Ware owners, and I could see why they’d be all in on this regime.

on the other side of the NIL (bit)coin must be those that backed X (sorry @Cavanagh) or Gunn .

 

[Tammany Hall]

I like the Pacers. They have a nice history for a small market team. They’re usually trying to do something to be competitive, like this recent team (or PG era or 90s or Malice team that could have won it). Seems a little harsh.

They like Woody, probably know him and he is a Knight guy. To me it’s IU’s job to manage the donors. We appear to let them have too much influence or we don’t make the case to them on what we should be doing.

Anyways, I’m one person that isn’t bothered by them. But I’m hardly an expert on the details of the Simons.

 

[Bucket Getter]

I like the Pacers. They have a nice history for a small market team. They’re always trying to do something to be competitive, like this recent team. Seems a little harsh.

They like Woody, probably know him and he is a Knight guy. To me it’s IU’s job to manage the donors. We appear to let them have too much influence or we don’t make the case to them on what we should be doing.

Anyways, I’m one person that isn’t bothered by them. But I’m hardly an expert on the details of the Simons.

Until recently, I wasn’t either. Seemed like a swell family with Indy’s best interests at heart. Upon closer examination, I’m leaning it’s only their best interests that are in play.

Look, I love the Pacers. Kept scorebooks listing to Jerry Baker on my AM radio when I was a little kid. Long before they entered the NBA. But a long time has passed and they are simply a mid-level team. Year in and year out, they are the definition of mediocre. Several other small market teams have won championships. The Pacers have only been close once or twice.

Feels like they’ve moved in with IU basketball now. Not sure that’s good thing.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Keep seeing how they are the $$ behind Buckner and Woody and much of our NIL war-chest. Obviously, the AH renovation and name plastered all over the place that used to scorn sponsorships of any kind tells a story.

After living through the mediocrity of our NBA franchise for the entirety of their ownership, I’m curious how anyone is impressed by their basketball acumen. Feels like they are simply using (abusing) two of this state’s most sacred institutions and brands as mere marketing tools with little (if any) regard for on-court success.

Never mind the fact they were far and away Joe Hogsett’s biggest donor in the last Indy mayoral election. Clearly they can use their money however they want and can steer elections to their ultimate benefit. That’s nothing new. But to openly promote the dude that has been a primary force in destroying a once-vibrant (and safe) downtown is mysterious to say the least. Their Circle Center Mall is kaput. Many other holdings sit vacant and crime flourishes.

I guess I’m not sure if there is an answer or solution to any of this, but I think the old adage about being careful of the company you keep is pertinent here.

If it wasn't for them Indy wouldn't even have a mediocre franchise to follow. how are they destroying downtown? really don't know anything about Indy politics? no idea what they do NIL wise but can't see how that actually helps them financially. if they paid Ware money that was pretty much a gift, I don't see how his year at IU will do anything for them.

 

[Tammany Hall]

They sold Circle Center (decline of malls not really their fault) to the best developer around and the redevelopment plans look good.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Until recently, I wasn’t either. Seemed like a swell family with Indy’s best interests at heart. Upon closer examination, I’m leaning it’s only their best interests that are in play.

Look, I love the Pacers. Kept scorebooks listing to Jerry Baker on my AM radio when I was a little kid. Long before they entered the NBA. But a long time has passed and they are simply a mid-level team. Year in and year out, they are the definition of mediocre. Several other small market teams have won championships. The Pacers have only been close once or twice.

Feels like they’ve moved in with IU basketball now. Not sure that’s good thing.

don't know if you count Denver as small market. but I'm sure you're talking about Milwaukee. those are 2 examples. lately, both got extremely lucky in that the drafted 1 of the 2 best players in basketball. Pacers actually do a decent job of year in and year out being competitive. Very tough to win at a high level when you compete in a star driven league and no big-time free agent would ever come here.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

They sold Circle Center (decline of malls not really their fault) to the best developer around and the redevelopment plans look good.

what are they going to do with circle center?

 

[GThomas]

It’s been a dream season for the Ware owners,

Phrasing.

 

[.Gerdis]

Phrasing.

I lost my copy of Strunk and White decades ago, VBG.

 

[Tammany Hall]

what are they going to do with circle center?

Changing it to an open air mall with apartments, shopping, and restaurants. The people who did Bottleworks (Hendricks) bought it — they do high quality projects.

 

[Bucket Getter]

don't know if you count Denver as small market. but I'm sure you're talking about Milwaukee. those are 2 examples. lately, both got extremely lucky in that the drafted 1 of the 2 best players in basketball. Pacers actually do a decent job of year in and year out being competitive. Very tough to win at a high level when you compete in a star driven league and no big-time free agent would ever come here.

Portland. Seattle. San Antonio.

 

[abraxis]

Feels like they’ve moved in with IU basketball now. Not sure that’s good thing.

Money doesn't buy happiness. It buys more money and more power through the astuteness of the more business-minded.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Portland. Seattle. San Antonio.

Bill Walton? 60 years ago, Robinson and Duncan, would you rather the pacers suck for say 3 straight years and hope to get lucky in the draft, or field a semi competitive team each year that we all know has a ceiling.

 

[Hatchets7times]

I'll bitch a bunch more about them if it's a onother 18 win season..Next yr..
I get Woodson gets one more..
Pacers are what they are..At lest it keeps something happening in the winter in downtown Indy..And at the moment their on a up tick ...
NIL money is must..For football & basketball..Hopefully they throw stupid money towards it..
.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Money doesn't buy happiness. It buys more money and more power through the astuteness of the more business-minded.

you seem at times to be a deep thinker deft of many thoughts

 

[This Is Keanu Reeves]

Keep seeing how they are the $$ behind Buckner and Woody and much of our NIL war-chest. Obviously, the AH renovation and name plastered all over the place that used to scorn sponsorships of any kind tells a story.

After living through the mediocrity of our NBA franchise for the entirety of their ownership, I’m curious how anyone is impressed by their basketball acumen. Feels like they are simply using (abusing) two of this state’s most sacred institutions and brands as mere marketing tools with little (if any) regard for on-court success.

Never mind the fact they were far and away Joe Hogsett’s biggest donor in the last Indy mayoral election. Clearly they can use their money however they want and can steer elections to their ultimate benefit. That’s nothing new. But to openly promote the dude that has been a primary force in destroying a once-vibrant (and safe) downtown is mysterious to say the least. Their Circle Center Mall is kaput. Many other holdings sit vacant and crime flourishes.

I guess I’m not sure if there is an answer or solution to any of this, but I think the old adage about being careful of the company you keep is pertinent here.

Couple things to point out to you...

There are a couple of different "Simon" factions. All related, but seemingly all have their own money to throw around.

Herb owns the Pacers soley. Cindy is Melvin's daughter. David (current CEO of namesake company) is another Melvin child. Neither of them have much, if anything, to do with the Pacers. Herb's son Steve is the heir apparent there.

If you think Herb has been a poor owner, I would suggest to you that you are naïve. The Simon's bought the Pacers essentially as a charitable donation. Herb is now the longest tenured owner in NBA history and is going to get into the NBA hall of fame. Compared to other middle market teams- the Pacers have been one of the most, if not the most consistent for the past 30 years. You'll never hear a player, coach, anybody say a bad thing about Herb. Larry Bird loves them man, what else do you need to know.

As far as Democratic donations.... They've been democrats forever. Get over it. $300k is peanuts. Downtown Indy would not be what it (the good parts included!) is if the Simons weren't part of the community. Circle Center at the time was a huge deal and set off a dominio effect that hey... maybe downtown Indy isn't so bad! Does the mall suck now? Ya, but that has way more to do with the fact that urban malls in medium sized cities don't have a great track record.

Your old adage is not inaccurate. But Herb Simon is one of the most generous, humble, kind billionaires you could ever meet. I don't know anything about Cindy though. David is an asshole, so maybe it runs on that side of the family. I highly, highly doubt she is inserting herself into administrative decisions as that would be very counter to the family's low-key M.O., but I could be wrong.

 

[This Is Keanu Reeves]

Changing it to an open air mall with apartments, shopping, and restaurants. The people who did Bottleworks (Hendricks) bought it — they do high quality projects.

And I'm sure it'll comfort some to know that Diane Hendricks is a major republican donor - phew!. I think she is the richest female CEO in America, or self made CEO, or whatever....she is also a billionaire, and per third hand accounts, a very generous person as well. I've heard that they really do try to do projects that aren't necessarily huge profits, but are enormous to a communities well being. Hence Bottleworks and Circle Center.

 

[abraxis]

As far as Democratic donations.... They've been democrats forever. Get over it.

The majority of those of Jewish faith have been Democrats forever. It should come to no one's surprise. The Democratic party traditionally caters to those identifying themselves as oppressed.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Keep seeing how they are the $$ behind Buckner and Woody and much of our NIL war-chest. Obviously, the AH renovation and name plastered all over the place that used to scorn sponsorships of any kind tells a story.

After living through the mediocrity of our NBA franchise for the entirety of their ownership, I’m curious how anyone is impressed by their basketball acumen. Feels like they are simply using (abusing) two of this state’s most sacred institutions and brands as mere marketing tools with little (if any) regard for on-court success.

Never mind the fact they were far and away Joe Hogsett’s biggest donor in the last Indy mayoral election. Clearly they can use their money however they want and can steer elections to their ultimate benefit. That’s nothing new. But to openly promote the dude that has been a primary force in destroying a once-vibrant (and safe) downtown is mysterious to say the least. Their Circle Center Mall is kaput. Many other holdings sit vacant and crime flourishes.

I guess I’m not sure if there is an answer or solution to any of this, but I think the old adage about being careful of the company you keep is pertinent here.

I have no idea what the Simons give to NIL but IU has been so sucessful with NIL due to their wide base of donors large and small. NIL is on a timeline thought as we read of programs getting NIL fatigue already. Could certainly happen to IU at some point.

 

[abraxis]

you seem at times to be a deep thinker deft of many thoughts

I just try to keep it interesting, stirring emotions along the way. Thank you for the use of your seldom seen word, "deft," triggering one's pause to ponder. Grasshopper knows when to jump.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

I just try to keep it interesting, stirring emotions along the way. Thank you for the use of your seldom seen word, "deft," triggering one's pause to ponder. Grasshopper knows when to jump.

very Trumpian of you, hope the Jews and dems don't take offense.

 

[Tammany Hall]

And I'm sure it'll comfort some to know that Diane Hendricks is a major republican donor - phew!. I think she is the richest female CEO in America, or self made CEO, or whatever....she is also a billionaire, and per third hand accounts, a very generous person as well. I've heard that they really do try to do projects that aren't necessarily huge profits, but are enormous to a communities well being. Hence Bottleworks and Circle Center.

Makes sense. Hendricks is so high quality compared to a lot of value construction stuff we see around here. Bottleworks is busy seven days a week. Ironworks in Keystone turned a dead corner into a popular area. I’m very hopefully they can breathe life into the “meh” zone south of the the circle.

It should also help the big sports events and conventions — all of this new stuff will be very close and should improve the experience for those visiting downtown for that sort of thing.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

I have no idea what the Simons give to NIL but IU has been so sucessful with NIL due to their wide base of donors large and small. NIL is on a timeline thought as we read of programs getting NIL fatigue already. Could certainly happen to IU at some point.

what proof of this great NIL success do we have? its repeated many times on here how far ahead of everyone else we are. I haven't seen it on the court, haven't seen it with the likes of Boogie Fland and Derek Queen

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Makes sense. Hendricks is so high quality compared to a lot of value construction stuff we see around here. Bottleworks is busy seven days a week. Ironworks in Keystone turned a dead corner into a popular area. I’m very hopefully they can breathe life into the “meh” zone south of the the circle.

It should also help the big sports events and conventions — all of this new stuff will be very close.

what you described earlier sounds awesome but seems like an undertaking that would take years. Circle center is a bunch of ancient buildings cobbled together, isn't it? are they going to bulldoze and start over.

 

[Tammany Hall]

what you described earlier sounds awesome but seems like an undertaking that would take years. Circle center is a bunch of ancient buildings cobbled together, isn't it? are they going to bulldoze and start over.

I have’t seen any timelines — the sale of the property was recent.

My guess is it will be in several stages like Bottleworks. Fundamentally the current center hallway for Circle Center will be the new open air walkway. They will renovate or build new in several stages until done. It will take many years but the first stage will be open in a few years with subsequent stages probably taking less time.

So, it will be a wait given the large undertaking, but this is the benefit of Hendricks — they’re good and will get it done better than any other developer around here.

 

[Tammany Hall]

what proof of this great NIL success do we have? its repeated many times on here how far ahead of everyone else we are. I haven't seen it on the court, haven't seen it with the likes of Boogie Fland and Derek Queen

He may be talking amounts. Many people who cover college basketball say our available NIL is around top-5 give or take. Top-10 is a safe assumption.

We seem to have an issue using our NIL amounts. We are probably very competitive on what we can offer recruits for NIL, but the whole results/system on the court and vision for the player seems to be an issue. That is a coaching staff issue as far as I can tell…

 

[kurt cloverdales]

I have’t seen any timelines — the sale of the property was recent.

My guess is it will be in several stages like Bottleworks. Fundamentally the current center hallway for Circle Center will be the new open air walkway. They will renovate or build new in several stages until done. It will take many years but the first stage will be open in a few years with subsequent stages probably taking less time.

So, it will be a wait given the large undertaking, but this is the benefit of Hendricks — they’re good and will get it done better than any other developer around here.

will be interesting. thanks for the update. most of my stays in Indy are in the wintertime. the open-air sounds kind of scary but sounds like there people who know what they're doing. circle center bought me a lot of bar time over the years. you go shop while I watch games. going to miss it.

 

[destewart]

And I'm sure it'll comfort some to know that Diane Hendricks is a major republican donor - phew!. I think she is the richest female CEO in America, or self made CEO, or whatever....she is also a billionaire, and per third hand accounts, a very generous person as well. I've heard that they really do try to do projects that aren't necessarily huge profits, but are enormous to a communities well being. Hence Bottleworks and Circle Center.

Because of the generosity of Diane Hendricks, my Alma mater, St John’s Northwestern Academies in Delafield, Wi., will survive to see it‘s 140th year. She truly is a self made billionaire.

 

[FormerRevMatt]

will be interesting. thanks for the update. most of my stays in Indy are in the wintertime. the open-air sounds kind of scary but sounds like there people who know what they're doing. circle center bought me a lot of bar time over the years. you go shop while I watch games. going to miss it.

Yeah, like others have said - Bottleworks is very well thought out and well done. They'll do the old Circle Center well.

 

[Bucket Getter]

Couple things to point out to you...

There are a couple of different "Simon" factions. All related, but seemingly all have their own money to throw around.

Herb owns the Pacers soley. Cindy is Melvin's daughter. David (current CEO of namesake company) is another Melvin child. Neither of them have much, if anything, to do with the Pacers. Herb's son Steve is the heir apparent there.

If you think Herb has been a poor owner, I would suggest to you that you are naïve. The Simon's bought the Pacers essentially as a charitable donation. Herb is now the longest tenured owner in NBA history and is going to get into the NBA hall of fame. Compared to other middle market teams- the Pacers have been one of the most, if not the most consistent for the past 30 years. You'll never hear a player, coach, anybody say a bad thing about Herb. Larry Bird loves them man, what else do you need to know.

As far as Democratic donations.... They've been democrats forever. Get over it. $300k is peanuts. Downtown Indy would not be what it (the good parts included!) is if the Simons weren't part of the community. Circle Center at the time was a huge deal and set off a dominio effect that hey... maybe downtown Indy isn't so bad! Does the mall suck now? Ya, but that has way more to do with the fact that urban malls in medium sized cities don't have a great track record.

Your old adage is not inaccurate. But Herb Simon is one of the most generous, humble, kind billionaires you could ever meet. I don't know anything about Cindy though. David is an asshole, so maybe it runs on that side of the family. I highly, highly doubt she is inserting herself into administrative decisions as that would be very counter to the family's low-key M.O., but I could be wrong.

Ok, that’s a lot, but I’ll try to address it. First, a Simon seems like a Simon to me. From a distance, things look kosher. Up close, there’s an odor.

The Pacers have forever clung to the “we’re a small market, what do you expect from us?” mantra. Until the last couple years, they’ve behaved like they were completely satisfied fielding an average team with an average salary cap. And no interest or effort at signing any free agents that might help. The future looks bright at the moment, but we’ve been hoodwinked before. Paul George, Victor Oladipo? I’m guessing there are a few former players/coaches that weren’t truly enamored with Herb’s tightness. Bird? Well he’s been on the payroll for a long, long time. Same with our good buddy Quinn. If nothing else, those two are smart enough to not bite the hand that’s feeds them.

I’ll stay out of any real political debate here, but I found it astonishing they funded Hogsett’s re-election campaign. Just months after he ordered IMPD to stand down and let their buildings and property get vandalized. If they’d sponsored any other democratic candidate, I wouldn’t have any issue.

The fact they sold a crumbling enterprise like Circle Center to a group with big plans is commendable. Let’s see if any of it actually happens. The current downtown business climate makes me skeptical.

And lastly, it’s been reported (and discussed here multiple times) that they are fully on board with this little Quinn-Woodson love affair. They’ve told Dolson they’ll pull whatever funding if he gets out of line. At least that’s what I’ve inferred. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s definitely feasible.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Ok, that’s a lot, but I’ll try to address it. First, a Simon seems like a Simon to me. From a distance, things look kosher. Up close, there’s an odor.

The Pacers have forever clung to the “we’re a small market, what do you expect from us?” mantra. Until the last couple years, they’ve behaved like they were completely satisfied fielding an average team with an average salary cap. And no interest or effort at signing any free agents that might help. The future looks bright at the moment, but we’ve been hoodwinked before. Paul George, Victor Oladipo? I’m guessing there are a few former players/coaches that weren’t truly enamored with Herb’s tightness. Bird? Well he’s been on the payroll for a long, long time. Same with our good buddy Quinn. If nothing else, those two are smart enough to not bite the hand that’s feeds them.

I’ll stay out of any real political debate here, but I found it astonishing they funded Hogsett’s re-election campaign. Just months after he ordered IMPD to stand down and let their buildings and property get vandalized. If they’d sponsored any other democratic candidate, I wouldn’t have any issue.

The fact they sold a crumbling enterprise like Circle Center to a group with big plans is commendable. Let’s see if any of it actually happens. The current downtown business climate makes me skeptical.

And lastly, it’s been reported (and discussed here multiple times) that they are fully on board with this little Quinn-Woodson love affair. They’ve told Dolson they’ll pull whatever funding if he gets out of line. At least that’s what I’ve inferred. Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s definitely feasible.

I find your last sentence very hard to believe. and if it was true then the university needs to part company. you can't have a private person or business running the school. can donors have influence sure money always talks. I would assume if they're giving the kind of money you are talking about, they want to win.

 

[Bucket Getter]

I find your last sentence very hard to believe. and if it was true then the university needs to part company. you can't have a private person or business running the school. can donors have influence sure money always talks. I would assume if they're giving the kind of money you are talking about, they want to win.

They want to win? Or they want control? I’m not convinced one way or the other. If they were just generous philanthropists, would they really need their names plastered all over Assembly Hall?

 

[IUINSB]

I just try to keep it interesting, stirring emotions along the way. Thank you for the use of your seldom seen word, "deft," triggering one's pause to ponder. Grasshopper knows when to jump.

He misspelled "bereft".

TIC

 

[kurt cloverdales]

They want to win? Or they want control? I’m not convinced one way or the other. If they were just generous philanthropists, would they really need their names plastered all over Assembly Hall?

control of what? the name on the building has more value with a winning team. The problems at IU started well before Cindy Simon got involved. and what would be her interest in protecting Buckner and Woodson? Buckner does Pacer games but don't see another connection. just like everyone was saying Woodson was gone a week or so ago, this shit on the internet is just that shit. I could almost guarantee you the Simons are not as involved as you think. I said at the time the people I knew weren't talking about him being fired.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

He misspelled "bereft".

TIC

that to

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Money doesn't buy happiness. It buys more money and more power through the astuteness of the more business-minded.

That cammed LS1 Corvette frc sitting in my garage, which I bought with MONEY, provides all the 'happiness' I can handle...

 

[abraxis]

That cammed LS1 Corvette frc sitting in my garage, which I bought with MONEY, provides all the 'happiness' I can handle...

And I bet it has more power than the car you sold it for had underneath its

A buddy I went to school with, back when “homegrown” was a derogatory word, later in life told me he recently purchased a Corvette Stingray. I ran into him about a year or so later when he commented about the fancy car he know longer had. All he had to say was, “Well, I got THAT out of my system.” I interrupted his response as a move in the right direction towards conquering his mid-life crises demons

One more, then I’ll let you go…
My second ex-wife’s younger sister (very hot looking, more so than my second ex-wife but I never told her that…my wife, that is) once uttered at the dinner table, “If an auto is analogous to a human body part, the Corvette would be the penis.” I assumed a rather large one of abnormal length and girth of eye-popping thickness. Today remarried, whenever I see a flashy Corvette, I visualize a swollen member on four wheels, cruising down the highway on full display. I always wonder what its driver must feel, deep inside.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

And I bet it has more power than the car you sold it for had underneath its

A buddy I went to school with, back when “homegrown” was a derogatory word, later in life told me he recently purchased a Corvette Stingray. I ran into him about a year or so later when he commented about the fancy car he know longer had. All he had to say was, “Well, I got THAT out of my system.” I interrupted his response as a move in the right direction towards conquering his mid-life crises demons

One more, then I’ll let you go…
My second ex-wife’s younger sister (very hot looking, more so than my second ex-wife but I never told her that…my wife, that is) once uttered at the dinner table, “If an auto is analogous to a human body part, the Corvette would be the penis.” I assumed a rather large one of abnormal length and girth of eye-popping thickness. Today remarried, whenever I see a flashy Corvette, I visualize a swollen member on four wheels, cruising down the highway on full display. I always wonder what its driver must feel, deep inside.

should have stopped at 1 less, before you let him go

 

[abraxis]

They want to win? Or they want control? I’m not convinced one way or the other. If they were just generous philanthropists, would they really need their names plastered all over Assembly Hall?

The most commendable donors are those listing themselves “anonymous.” These are the true givers, free of recognition in return.