Some Race Math?

[Marvin the Martian]

In every large blue dysfunctional city, bad education is concentrated in the black community. Combine that with the other concentrated social dysfunctions for Blacks and we have problems unlike West Virginia or Mississippi.

Talib is just being Talib. He skill always find a way to define the problem in terms of rich whites.

I am guessing you have never read Talib. He hates corporate yes men, he loves wealthy Whites who make their own way, like a Jobs.

Again, there is a direct relationship between poverty and education. It is true in Blue cities and White rural. It might be poverty is the common denominator between failings in coal country and Chicago. But it seems you don't like that because you can't just blame team blue.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I am guessing you have never read Talib. He hates corporate yes men, he loves wealthy Whites who make their own way, like a Jobs.

Again, there is a direct relationship between poverty and education. It is true in Blue cities and White rural. It might be poverty is the common denominator between failings in coal country and Chicago. But it seems you don't like that because you can't just blame team blue.

Will you ever knock off the personal irrelevant jabs?

The murder rate in Baltimore is 10 times West Virginia‘s. I suggested the despair and hopelessness created by bad udecations contribute to the violence. But it certainly isn’t the only cause. We also need to look at public policy that doesn’t fix the problems, but instead hands out benefits so the problems won’t need to be fixed. These are liberal policies. It serves no purpose to account for bad educations with hand outs.

And as far as poverty and education is concerned, the highest per pupil spending is found in places where outcomes are the worst. It’s the system, not the money.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Will you ever knock off the personal irrelevant jabs?

The murder rate in Baltimore is 10 times West Virginia‘s. I suggested the despair and hopelessness created by bad udecations contribute to the violence. But it certainly isn’t the only cause. We also need to look at public policy that doesn’t fix the problems, but instead hands out benefits so the problems won’t need to be fixed. These are liberal policies. It serves no purpose to account for bad educations with hand outs.

And as far as poverty and education is concerned, the highest per pupil spending is found in places where outcomes are the worst. It’s the system, not the money.

And the system is bad in cities and rural. Something I thought we could agree on but for some reason you don't. Education works in the burbs. There is a race neutral issue, improve it in Chicago and West Virginia.

And I suspect the further similarity is parents who do not care about education.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Disagree.

First, there are no race neutral issues. When the docents at the Art Institute are canned because they are too white, we have a problem.

Second, we do need to focus on race issues and address those. When the NAACP lists things like voter suppression, student debt, police brutality and reproductive rights as the most pressing issues facing blacks today, we have a problem. 84% of Black HS graduates can’t read or do math at an adult level.el. 2/3rd’s of black youngsters are raised in the dysfunction of single parent homes. We systematically strip away black enthusiasm for education, and acquiring useful habits and skill by continually treating them like unskilled freed slaves instead of human beings. This is the real systemic racism and CRT is making it worse. This is where the real problems are. As a result we have a generation of angry black males and unimaginable violence among black youth which leads to the plethora of social problems we wrestle with every day.

We can’t fix this with arrogant diversity inclusion and equity programs among our elites. Nor can we fix it with a government that “looks like America”. Nor can we fix it with failed war on poverty programs that don’t solve problems but instead make them more livable. Nor can we fix this with Black Lives Matter slogans. We fix this by recognizing the problems, making judgments and change the social incubators of poor education and failed family structure. .

I'm not sure I understand why you say you disagree.

You don't think solving race-neutral problems, such as single-parent homes, enthusiasm for education, teaching useful habits, encouraging and instilling a sense of agency, psychological skills to deal with bad situations, poverty, and ensuring a rigorous education, will help address problems that disproportionately affect black people?

You don't think those issues--as I just wrote them--are race neutral? The statement "there are no race neutral" issues is: (1) one of the underlying bedrock assumptions of Kendi-style antiracism and leads to the very ridiculous Art Institute example you seem to not like; and (2) completely and utterly false.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I'm not sure I understand why you say you disagree.

You don't think solving race-neutral problems, such as single-parent homes, enthusiasm for education, teaching useful habits, encouraging and instilling a sense of agency, psychological skills to deal with bad situations, poverty, and ensuring a rigorous education, will help address problems that disproportionately affect black people?

You don't think those issues--as I just wrote them--are race neutral? The statement "there are no race neutral" issues is: (1) one of the underlying bedrock assumptions of Kendi-style antiracism and leads to the very ridiculous Art Institute example you seem to not like; and (2) completely and utterly false.

Here's the problem. By many metrics, Black youngsters are not doing well in the United States. They commit crimes at levels far exceeding their share of the population. Even more sad is that they are the victims of crimes at levels far exceeding their share of the population. Their underperformance in education is a disgrace. I could go on.

Sure, in one sense education and home life is race neutral. But The adverse affects of deficiencies in both is amplified among Blacks. I don't know why, but I think we need to figure that out pretty damn quick. I'm pretty sure that diversity, inclusion, and equity at institutions having no relevance to the kids on the streets is not the answer. Neither is an administration that "looks like America."

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Will you ever knock off the personal irrelevant jabs?

The murder rate in Baltimore is 10 times West Virginia‘s. I suggested the despair and hopelessness created by bad udecations contribute to the violence. But it certainly isn’t the only cause. We also need to look at public policy that doesn’t fix the problems, but instead hands out benefits so the problems won’t need to be fixed. These are liberal policies. It serves no purpose to account for bad educations with hand outs.

And as far as poverty and education is concerned, the highest per pupil spending is found in places where outcomes are the worst. It’s the system, not the money.

Any guess on what drives up per pupil spending in inner cities?

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Here's the problem. By many metrics, Black youngsters are not doing well in the United States. They commit crimes at levels far exceeding their share of the population. Even more sad is that they are the victims of crimes at levels far exceeding their share of the population. Their underperformance in education is a disgrace. I could go on.

Sure, in one sense education and home life is race neutral. But The adverse affects of deficiencies in both is amplified among Blacks. I don't know why, but I think we need to figure that out pretty damn quick. I'm pretty sure that diversity, inclusion, and equity at institutions having no relevance to the kids on the streets is not the answer. Neither is an administration that "looks like America."

You need to control for poverty in your data.

Will it completely remove a racial gap? I don’t think so. But it vastly changes the numbers.

Solve poverty, as MTIOF has suggested, and you solve many of these problems or at least vastly alleviate them.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You need to control for poverty in your data.

Will it completely remove a racial gap? I don’t think so. But it vastly changes the numbers.

Solve poverty, as MTIOF has suggested, and you solve many of these problems or at least vastly alleviate them.

We have been fighting the war in poverty for 60 years. We lost the war. We lost the war by making the causes of poverty acceptable through elaborate and various schemes of public benefits, handouts, and subsidies. Providing SNAP benefits, Section 8 housing, or mandating higher minimum wages does nothing to address the reasons why people need those things.

Yeah, there also a racial gap. But I think we are seeing evidence that the racial gap is more about class than it is about skin color. We address this not with racial equity schemes, but by better life skills.

I think we have a better chance to fix poverty by upping our game in better education than we do fixing education by upping our game in fighting poverty.

Edit: we also need get very serious about drugs. Many good jobs require clean employees. They are becoming more scarce. Simply stated, drugs also create poverty.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

We have been fighting the war in poverty for 60 years. We lost the war. We lost the war by making the causes of poverty acceptable through elaborate and various schemes of public benefits, handouts, and subsidies. Providing SNAP benefits, Section 8 housing, or mandating higher minimum wages does nothing to address the reasons why people need those things.

Yeah, there also a racial gap. But I think we are seeing evidence that the racial gap is more about class than it is about skin color. We address this not with racial equity schemes, but by better life skills.

I think we have a better chance to fix poverty by upping our game in better education than we do fixing education by upping our game in fighting poverty.

I don't think we lost the War on Poverty:

Similarly, an analysis of average incomes of the poorest fifth of Americans that counts non-cash benefits and tax credits also shows important progress. Their average household income was more than 75 percent higher in 2011 than in 1964, when President Johnson announced the War on Poverty. (That figure is adjusted for inflation and changes in household size.)​

​

https://www.cbpp.org/blog/poverty-has-fallen-since-the-1960s-but-official-poverty-measure-masks-progress

We only lost the war if one thinks a great reduction in percentage in poverty and a 75% higher family income for those in poverty is a failure.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

We have been fighting the war in poverty for 60 years. We lost the war. We lost the war by making the causes of poverty acceptable through elaborate and various schemes of public benefits, handouts, and subsidies. Providing SNAP benefits, Section 8 housing, or mandating higher minimum wages does nothing to address the reasons why people need those things.

Yeah, there also a racial gap. But I think we are seeing evidence that the racial gap is more about class than it is about skin color. We address this not with racial equity schemes, but by better life skills.

I think we have a better chance to fix poverty by upping our game in better education than we do fixing education by upping our game in fighting poverty.

Again, I’m not sure why you, of all people, write that there are no race neutral issues. Maybe you were trying to be sarcastic?

I agree that what people refer to as race based issues are at bottom more class based in the US in 2022. That’s why I think these are race neutral issues.

I’m not giving up on the War on Poverty. Children don’t deserve to live in poverty, no matter what their parents did or are doing.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Again, I’m not sure why you, of all people, write that there are no race neutral issues. Maybe you were trying to be sarcastic?

I agree that what people refer to as race based issues are at bottom more class based in the US in 2022. That’s why I think these are race neutral issues.

I’m not giving up on the War on Poverty. Children don’t deserve to live in poverty, no matter what their parents did or are doing.

Most of the children who live in poverty are those whose parents are junkies and/ or alcoholics. These are the kids most likely to be neglected and abused. Most likely, these kids will be like their parents, if they are not dead or in jail.

The area of their lives where the government has the most control over their future is education. We are not seizing that opportunity. Instead we subsidize dysfunctional lives and are likely making education worse.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Most of the children who live in poverty are those whose parents are junkies and/ or alcoholics. These are the kids most likely to be neglected and abused. Most likely, these kids will be like their parents, if they are not dead or in jail.

The area of their lives where the government has the most control over their future is education. We are not seizing that opportunity. Instead we subsidize dysfunctional lives and are likely making education worse.

If I follow your first paragraph’s reasoning, you are saying most children born into poverty will remain in poverty as adults and end up addicted to drugs or alcohol? Can you link any data supporting your assumptions? I’m ignorant about it, but had never heard that over 50% of adults below the poverty threshold are addicts or alcoholics.

If so: I don’t care how great the teachers, that’s a tough hurdle to overcome. More so if abuse and/or neglect is involved.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

If I follow your first paragraph’s reasoning, you are saying most children born into poverty will remain in poverty as adults and end up addicted to drugs or alcohol? Can you link any data supporting your assumptions? I’m ignorant about it, but had never heard that over 50% of adults below the poverty threshold are addicts or alcoholics.

If so: I don’t care how great the teachers, that’s a tough hurdle to overcome. More so if abuse and/or neglect is involved.

My experience is with child protection cases that I supvervised as General counsel. Substance abuse is present in overwhelming numbers. That leads to poverty and bad educations. Parents of these kids were themselves raised in similar circumstances. Kids trapped in this cycle is a national shame.

The despair and hopelessness of no education and no skills or no jobs lies at the center of this mess.

Billions have been spent trying to break the cycle. Our public policy is on the wrong side of common sense. Just yesterday I read that a large U.S. company will lay off thousands of IT workers in favor of low cost Asian H1 b workers. Out of those thousands will be more kids who will be in the system. We don’t learn.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

My experience is with child protection cases that I supvervised as General counsel. Substance abuse is present in overwhelming numbers. That leads to poverty and bad educations. Parents of these kids were themselves raised in similar circumstances. Kids trapped in this cycle is a national shame.

The despair and hopelessness of no education and no skills or no jobs lies at the center of this mess.

Billions have been spent trying to break the cycle. Our public policy is on the wrong side of common sense. Just yesterday I read that a large U.S. company will lay off thousands of IT workers in favor of low cost Asian H1 b workers. Out of those thousands will be more kids who will be in the system. We don’t learn.

Ok. That’s an interesting history.

I wonder if there is a useful analogy between addictive substances and guns: many people like both and can have/use them without negatively impacting society. But the edge cases cannot and so, for public policy reasons, people argue they should be eliminated.

This is just me thinking out loud and asking questions.

Wonder what the total cost to society addictive substances (I’m including alcohol) amount to vs. guns?

Would the world be a better place if people didn’t drink, smoke, shoot up, etc? I kinda think it would.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Ok. That’s an interesting history.

I wonder if there is a useful analogy between addictive substances and guns: many people like both and can have/use them without negatively impacting society. But the edge cases cannot and so, for public policy reasons, people argue they should be eliminated.

This is just me thinking out loud and asking questions.

Wonder what the total cost to society addictive substances (I’m including alcohol) amount to vs. guns?

Would the world be a better place if people didn’t drink, smoke, shoot up, etc? I kinda think it would.

People who sell addictive substances carry guns.

 

[UncleMark]

Most of the children who live in poverty are those whose parents are junkies and/ or alcoholics.

Fvck me runnin'. You are totally out to lunch.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Fvck me runnin'. You are totally out to lunch.

You against the idea or the numbers?

 

[IUINSB]

You against the idea or the numbers?

Embrace the use of "and".

 

[UncleMark]

You against the idea or the numbers?

No question that CPS cases will have a large substance abuse factor. But you can't generalize that to the entire population under the poverty line. Substance abusers might be poor, but the poor aren't necessarily substance abusers.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

No question that CPS cases will have a large substance abuse factor. But you can't generalize that to the entire population under the poverty line. Substance abusers might be poor, but the poor aren't necessarily substance abusers.

Soooo, what percent of children who live in poverty would you say have parents who are junkies and/ or alcoholics? CoH said “most.”
50% + 1?

 

[UncleMark]

Soooo, what percent of children who live in poverty would you say have parents who are junkies and/ or alcoholics? CoH said “most.”
50% + 1?

No more than the population at large. Those with means are able to manage better, so outward appearances will be deceiving.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

No more than the population at large. Those with means are able to manage better, so outward appearances will be deceiving.

C'mon...everyone knows there's no such thing as a rich alcoholic or drug addict.

 

[UncleMark]

C'mon...everyone knows there's no such thing as a rich alcoholic or drug addict.

Depends on what you mean by rich. How about a Dean of one of schools at IU Bton?

 

[IUCrazy2]

I don't think we lost the War on Poverty:

Similarly, an analysis of average incomes of the poorest fifth of Americans that counts non-cash benefits and tax credits also shows important progress. Their average household income was more than 75 percent higher in 2011 than in 1964, when President Johnson announced the War on Poverty. (That figure is adjusted for inflation and changes in household size.)​

​

https://www.cbpp.org/blog/poverty-has-fallen-since-the-1960s-but-official-poverty-measure-masks-progress

We only lost the war if one thinks a great reduction in percentage in poverty and a 75% higher family income for those in poverty is a failure.

Then why have things not improved? Doesn't that kind of blow up the poverty causes problems line of thinking?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Then why have things not improved? Doesn't that kind of blow up the poverty causes problems line of thinking?

Systemic becomes an issue, people lose faith in the system.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Systemic becomes an issue, people lose faith in the system.

And what if the system is basically fixed currently but people keep undermining the current system by saying it is basically the same as a 400 year old system?

If the problem is no longer poverty and is instead a loss of faith in the system, but we know that the system is improved, then people arguing that the system is still set up to hold people down are now the ones doing the harm, no?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

And what if the system is basically fixed currently but people keep undermining the current system by saying it is basically the same as a 400 year old system?

If the problem is no longer poverty and is instead a loss of faith in the system, but we know that the system is improved, then people arguing that the system is still set up to hold people down are now the ones doing the harm, no?

Poverty numbers are down, that is not the same as them being 0. They are down, that is good.

Things are not binary such that less poverty is no poverty and less racism is no racism.

There are numerous reasons homicide might be up (but still less than 1980). Also for homicide, what is the most likely common denominator?

Using these seven measures, links between homicide and drugs were found in 86.4% of the homicide cases​

​

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.rit.edu/liberalarts/sites/rit.edu.liberalarts/files/documents/our-work/2002-01.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiJ3PPo64j5AhV5g4kEHcAsBacQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0zgINhWtZ82Q90eIZkp-28