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Shots fired at Trump's PA campaign rally

ChicagoFineForNow said:
I don’t know why Crooks shot at Trump, he was clearly off his rocker. You are a demented freak.
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How does Crooks being "off his rocker" correlate with all those in MAGA world claiming it was an inside job by the FBI/SS? I certainly never said he wasn't off his rocker,that could clearly be the case. But my possible scenario esp given comments from people like Fuentes and Alex Jones is a lot more feasable that the ones in this thread who have dreamed up an "inside job" scenario...

Esp now tha we discover thatt his laptop shows multiple visits to White Supremacist, anti-Semite and anti-immigration websites> Some people still want to blame Biden or Dems for inspiring Crooks. It isn't just idiots on this board who were eager to blame Democrats. JD Vance (and others) couldn't wait to make fools of themselves...



Of course in JD's defense this is when he was working hard to earn that VP slot, and presumably before he knew that Crooks was a card carrying Republican...
 
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hookyIU1990 said:
Having belonged to a couple of conservation clubs, I can say with nearly 100% certainty that there isn't a phone in the clubhouse, nor is the clubhouse staffed. The dad wouldn't have been able to call and check to see if he was there. Best he could have done was call a few people to see if they were there and ask if they saw his son.

Typically, you unlock the gate drive in and lock it behind you. Go sign in and if you're the only one there, you hoist the flags to let people know someone is there and the range you're on is considered hot.
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This is accurate. And the lifestyle is awesome.
 
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BadWakeboarder said:
It’s the first time in butler county with those LEOs. They have to collaborate with someone new every day. It’s difficult. The only way to improve it is to double funding to let them recruit and train more agents. Something most big government conservatives don’t want to happen.

Adding drones adds more eyes but also adds more complexity in communications.
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If I'm the Detail leader and I know going in I've been denied a drone and that Im certain to have communications issues (because they do nearly everywhere with every other agency), I stop by the nearest Walmart and drop between $30.00 to $200.00 for a drone) depending on the video quality desired; and then I drop another $290.00 for 12 Motorola T200's... (for Shooter, Shooter, Shooter; Emergency single channel use Only) between line of sight designated operators on the ground and elevated Sniper Teams...*

For under $500.00 I've solved my Eye in the Sky problem and cut my Dire Emergency communications issues in half...

Of course, once again, had the Detail team leader simply utilized the Drone that was offered, added the backup Radios that were also offered, and put one of Secret Service operatives in the locals command post as a Liasion for exactly this type of communications issue... ; then they brace the kid before he gets on the roof, or if they lose him and then see him on the roof they simply don't bring the protectee out to the podium..., and they shoot him before he kills anyone...

I know the Director of the Secret Service wants to make this type of operation sound like rocket science but most of it sure seems like basic common sense to me...

*(as far as operational security goes [by utilizing the over the counter T200's], you don't tell anyone involved about their use until you're handing them out just prior to the event with the understanding that they are for ultra- emergency use Only on the single channel designated {ch.# written in indelible ink on duct tape shard attached to the radio}... If you have to pass them out sooner, you simply wait to give the operational channel number out until just prior to the event going active)
 
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76-1 said:
If I'm the Detail leader and I know going in I've been denied a drone and that Im certain to have communications issues (because they do nearly everywhere with every other agency), I stop by the nearest Walmart and drop between $30.00 to $200.00 for a drone) depending on the video quality desired; and then I drop another $290.00 for 12 Motorola T200's... (for Shooter, Shooter, Shooter; Emergency single channel use Only) between line of sight designated operators on the ground and elevated Sniper Teams...

For under $500.00 I've solved my Eye in the Sky problem and cut my Dire Emergency communications issues in half...

Of course, once again, had the Detail team leader simply utilized the Drone that was offered, added the backup Radios that were also offered, and put one of Secret Service operatives in the locals command post as a Liasion for exactly this type of communications issue... ; then they brace the kid before he gets on the roof, or if they lose him and then see him on the roof they simply don't bring the protectee out to the podium..., and they shoot him before he kills anyone...

I know the Director of the Secret Service wants to make this type of operation sound like rocket science but most of it sure seems like basic common sense to me...
Click to expand...
It’s just incompetence my friend. Complacent, government, bureaucrats.

You might ask yourself how could the U.S. Federal Government be so incompetent?

Then you take a step back and realize they’ve never administered anything, ever, with any type of competence. A community of dunces.
 
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76-1 said:
If I'm the Detail leader and I know going in I've been denied a drone and that Im certain to have communications issues (because they do nearly everywhere with every other agency), I stop by the nearest Walmart and drop between $30.00 to $200.00 for a drone) depending on the video quality desired; and then I drop another $290.00 for 12 Motorola T200's... (for Shooter, Shooter, Shooter; Emergency single channel use Only) between line of sight designated operators on the ground and elevated Sniper Teams...

For under $500.00 I've solved my Eye in the Sky problem and cut my Dire Emergency communications issues in half...

Of course, once again, had the Detail team leader simply utilized the Drone that was offered, added the backup Radios that were also offered, and put one of Secret Service operatives in the locals command post as a Liasion for exactly this type of communications issue... ; then they brace the kid before he gets on the roof, or if they lose him and then see him on the roof they simply don't bring the protectee out to the podium..., and they shoot him before he kills anyone...

I know the Director of the Secret Service wants to make this type of operation sound like rocket science but most of it sure seems like basic common sense to me...
Click to expand...
Say that you are not a politician or bureaucrat without saying that you’re not a politician or bureaucrat .
Also that $500 expense will show up on the books with 4 extra Zeros for administration fees, while 5,000,000 gets siphoned off to some special black hole.
 
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ChicagoFineForNow said:
It’s just incompetence my friend. Complacent, government, bureaucrats.

You might ask yourself how could the U.S. Federal Government be so incompetent?

Then you take a step back and realize they’ve never administered anything, ever, with any type of competence. A community of dunces.
Click to expand...

What's tough for me to believe is that suddenly all these people who are at theoretically the top of their profession suddenly become completely incompetent in regard to visualizing the threat and planning basic counters to defend and defeat it...

More than a few of those agents had to have had to have come from backgrounds where what we saw on the 13th of July would never have been tolerated..., and that's why a lot of us are asking pointed questions...
 
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76-1 said:
If I'm the Detail leader and I know going in I've been denied a drone and that Im certain to have communications issues (because they do nearly everywhere with every other agency), I stop by the nearest Walmart and drop between $30.00 to $200.00 for a drone) depending on the video quality desired; and then I drop another $290.00 for 12 Motorola T200's... (for Shooter, Shooter, Shooter; Emergency single channel use Only) between line of sight designated operators on the ground and elevated Sniper Teams...*

For under $500.00 I've solved my Eye in the Sky problem and cut my Dire Emergency communications issues in half...

Of course, once again, had the Detail team leader simply utilized the Drone that was offered, added the backup Radios that were also offered, and put one of Secret Service operatives in the locals command post as a Liasion for exactly this type of communications issue... ; then they brace the kid before he gets on the roof, or if they lose him and then see him on the roof they simply don't bring the protectee out to the podium..., and they shoot him before he kills anyone...

I know the Director of the Secret Service wants to make this type of operation sound like rocket science but most of it sure seems like basic common sense to me...

*(as far as operational security goes [by utilizing the over the counter T200's], you don't tell anyone involved about their use until you're handing them out just prior to the event with the understanding that they are for ultra- emergency use Only on the single channel designated {ch.# written in indelible ink on duct tape shard attached to the radio}... If you have to pass them out sooner, you simply wait to give the operational channel number out until just prior to the event going active)
Click to expand...
Sounds like it’s simple then.
 
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BradStevens said:
Counter-example--NASA: 1958-1972.
Click to expand...

I don't completely agree with him, I think there's usually 30% of the government work force that actually performs at a high level, not due to leadership..., but simply because they have an ingrained work ethic to do what néeds to be done..., often times in spite of poor leadership... Without those few nothing would get done...

As for NASA "58-72", I'd suggest that their record was good primarily because during that time frame most of the key people involved were either current or former military with a zero defect mindset (although plenty of things didn't go exactly as planned during that period)...

When I was a kid I recall a seemingly unacceptable number of rockets that were being tested for future manned flight either blowing up on the pad or having to be destroyed in flight just due to something going haywire...

It was an age of hero's however and Glenn and Cooper made the Space Program look good even when things weren't going according to plan... Apollo 13 was a great later example of that... Military guys were trained to not panic, to improvise as needed and overcome seemingly impossible situations...

Seems like the Secret Service has lost that intuitive approach to both the survival of the protectee and their own survival... That degree of degradation of attitude and procedure usually runs from the top down...
 
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76-1 said:
I don't completely agree with him, I think there's usually 30% of the government work force that actually performs at a high level, not due to leadership..., but simply because they have an ingrained work ethic to do what néeds to be done..., often times in spite of poor leadership... Without those few nothing would get done...

As for NASA "58-72", I'd suggest that their record was good primarily because during that time frame most of the key people involved were either current or former military with a zero defect mindset (although plenty of things didn't go exactly as planned during that period)...

When I was a kid I recall a seemingly unacceptable number of rockets that were being tested for future manned flight either blowing up on the pad or having to be destroyed in flight just due to something going haywire...

It was an age of hero's however and Glenn and Cooper made the Space Program look good even when things weren't going according to plan... Apollo 13 was a great later example of that... Military guys were trained to not panic, to improvise as needed and overcome seemingly impossible situations...

Seems like the Secret Service has lost that intuitive approach to both the survival of the protectee and their own survival... That degree of degradation of attitude and procedure usually runs from the top down...
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Yes, and those military guys were trained by a federal government institution. The military at certain times would also be a counterexample.

By the way, there is plenty of incompetence, waste, and mismanagement in the private sector. The difference is survivor bias: for private sector management, we focus and use as exemplars only the firms that survive, rarely mentioning the ones that do not. But we can't allow the fed govt. to "fail" in that way (just as we can't allow certain private industries to "fail"--banking, steel, etc.), so we have plenty of bad, public examples to draw upon.
 
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BradStevens said:
Yes, and those military guys were trained by a federal government institution. The military at certain times would also be a counterexample.

By the way, there is plenty of incompetence, waste, and mismanagement in the private sector. The difference is survivor bias: for private sector management, we focus and use as exemplars only the firms that survive, rarely mentioning the ones that do not. But we can't allow the fed govt. to "fail" in that way (just as we can't allow certain private industries to "fail"--banking, steel, etc.), so we have plenty of bad, public examples to draw upon.
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Because there are harsh consequences when a private sector entity makes a series of poor decisions, there also needs to be consequences when a federal entity does a bad job.

Not getting it done at Dept of Education <insert any number of agencies>, funding is cut, leadership blown out, micromanaged by someone who demands results, etc....

edit typo
 
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hookyIU1990 said:
Because there are jarsh consequences when a private sector entity makes a series of poor decisions, there also needs to be consequences when a federal entity does a bad job.

Not getting it done at Dept of Education <insert any number of agencies>, funding is cut, leadership blown out, micromanaged by someone who demands results, etc....
Click to expand...
I agree we need to treat the agencies more seriously and have more accountability. That said, cutting funding sounds nice but it doesn't solve the problem if the institution might be necessary or the results a high priority.

When a federal entity does a bad job, there are most certainly consequences. The problem is how to line up those consequences for the public with the accountability for the employees.
 
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BradStevens said:
I agree we need to treat the agencies more seriously and have more accountability. That said, cutting funding sounds nice but it doesn't solve the problem if the institution might be necessary or the results a high priority.

When a federal entity does a bad job, there are most certainly consequences. The problem is how to line up those consequences for the public with the accountability for the employees.
Click to expand...
What are the high priority results that came out of the CIA and FBI the last few years? Not much. Only prospective nonsense from jokers.
 
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BradStevens said:
I agree we need to treat the agencies more seriously and have more accountability. That said, cutting funding sounds nice but it doesn't solve the problem if the institution might be necessary or the results a high priority.

When a federal entity does a bad job, there are most certainly consequences. The problem is how to line up those consequences for the public with the accountability for the employees.
Click to expand...
No more automatic raises is an easy one. Make them go through the budget line by line and show ROI on each program.

In actuality, every one of them should be forced to implement Zero Based Budgeting as table stakes.
 
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Aloha Hoosier said:
Sorry, but I don’t get the obsession over that very tiny amount of cocaine found in an area where they figure at least 500 people had access. What grand conspiracy theory do you guys have for this one? I’m serious, I don’t know.
Click to expand...

It’s pretty bad that this acting SS head was trying to cover this up.
 
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Aloha Hoosier said:
Sorry, but I don’t get the obsession over that very tiny amount of cocaine found in an area where they figure at least 500 people had access. What grand conspiracy theory do you guys have for this one? I’m serious, I don’t know.
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Here's one for ya! No worries for you now. If they don't assassinate him first Raskin is going to make sure he never sees office by not only exercising the 14th amendment but creating civil war conditions. They really, really, really, really, for some damn reason do not want him in office again. Isn't that just a little bit clear by now WTF

 
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JamieDimonsBalls said:
It’s pretty bad that this acting SS head was trying to cover this up.
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Cover what up? The article basically said they’d reached the end of the investigation and there was a disagreement about whether to destroy the half a dime sized bit of cocaine. I really have not understood the outrage about this one and no one has ever explained why they were outraged in a logical way. If you can do it, go for it.
 
DDE-6-20-23 said:
Here's one for ya! No worries for you now. If they don't assassinate him first Raskin is going to make sure he never sees office by not only exercising the 14th amendment but creating civil war conditions. They really, really, really, really, for some damn reason do not want him in office again. Isn't that just a little bit clear by now WTF

View embedded media
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I saw that one and you’re still a loon. You need mental therapy.
 
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Aloha Hoosier said:
I saw that one and you’re still a loon. You need mental therapy.
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I'm the loon huh? I've been telling you these people are bat sh!t crazy, authoritarians and dangerous. They will stop at nothing. Bullshit court cases, jail, assassination attempts, Steels dossier, Project 2025, Illegal fIsa warrants, the list goes on and on and on and you think this sh!t is okay? I guarantee you nobody has ever seen these kind of politicians in this country EVER and they came within an inch of blowing his brains out. But everything is fine aloha. You people are in a trance. Wake the hell up! I'm not going to respond to another round of your naivety either.
 
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DDE-6-20-23 said:
I'm the loon huh? I've been telling you these people are bat sh!t crazy, authoritarians and dangerous. They will stop at nothing. Bullshit court cases, jail, assassination attempts, Steels dossier, Project 2025, Illegal fIsa warrants, the list goes on and on and on and you think this sh!t is okay? I guarantee you nobody has ever seen these kind of politicians in this country EVER and they came within an inch of blowing his brains out. But everything is fine aloha. You people are in a trance. Wake the hell up! I'm not going to respond to another round of your naivety either.
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Yes. You are a loon. I’m serious.
 
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IUfanBorden said:
This type of behavior doesnt concern you? What if this came from a Republican? Do you condone this?
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What type of behavior? I assume,since it's only a portion of the discussion, that this refernces the attempts Trump is already making to claim the upcoming election is unfair/stolen. Unless of course if Trump were to win, he'll be characterizing it as a model of democracy in action...

Raskinn is just pointing out that if Trump loses a repeat of 4 yrs ago is certainly possible, maybe even likely. Trump just can't accept defeat and be a gracious loser, and he's already planting suspicions in MAGA minds. Not sure how anyone could even dispute that...

I mean here we are 4 yrs later and some people are still convinced Trump won and waas cheated. The refrain goes something like "I went to bed and Trump was winning", which was by design. That's why in crucial states like PA,MI and WI GOP legsilators insisted that mail/early votes be counted last, after Trump had a lead in election day voting. It was a strategy the Pubs employed called "the red mirage"...

Anyone with half a brain could see the amount of uncounted early mail votes, and know that the overwhelming majority were going to be for Biden. When Trump came out and ridiculously "declared victory" it was a cynical attempt to steal the Presidency and convince his followers he had won. Had the mail/early votes been counted first in any of those states, Biden would have had an early lead and on the basis of total ballots cast Trump would never even have been able to catch up. He's trying the same thing now...

www.theguardian.com

'Red mirage': the 'insidious' scenario if Trump declares an early victory

The situation could develop if the president appears to be leading on election night before all votes are counted – and for some officials, it’s too realistic for words
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
cosmickid said:
What type of behavior? I assume,since it's only a portion of the discussion, that this refernces the attempts Trump is already making to claim the upcoming election is unfair/stolen. Unless of course if Trump were to win, he'll be characterizing it as a model of democracy in action...

Raskinn is just pointing out that if Trump loses a repeat of 4 yrs ago is certainly possible, maybe even likely. Trump just can't accept defeat and be a gracious loser, and he's already planting suspicions in MAGA minds. Not sure how anyone could even dispute that...

I mean here we are 4 yrs later and some people are still convinced Trump won and waas cheated. The refrain goes something like "I went to bed and Trump was winning", which was by design. That's why in crucial states like PA,MI and WI GOP legsilators insisted that mail/early votes be counted last, after Trump had a lead in election day voting. It was a strategy the Pubs employed called "the red mirage"...

Anyone with half a brain could see the amount of uncounted early mail votes, and know that the overwhelming majority were going to be for Biden. When Trump came out and ridiculously "declared victory" it was a cynical attempt to steal the Presidency and convince his followers he had won. Had the mail/early votes been counted first in any of those states, Biden would have had an early lead and on the basis of total ballots cast Trump would never even have been able to catch up. He's trying the same thing now...

www.theguardian.com

'Red mirage': the 'insidious' scenario if Trump declares an early victory

The situation could develop if the president appears to be leading on election night before all votes are counted – and for some officials, it’s too realistic for words
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...
comic kid yet again bringing nothing but the truth. I love when it's Haloperidol kicks in.
 
nypost.com

‘Iranian agent’ tried to hire hitmen for possible assassination of Trump, other US politicians: feds

A Pakistani man with alleged ties to Iran has been charged by the Justice Department with plotting to carry out political assassinations – a scheme which prompted the Secret Service to finally boos…
nypost.com nypost.com
www.foxnews.com

Pakistani man with ties to Iran charged in foiled assassination plot potentially targeting Trump, DOJ says

A Pakistani man with ties to the Iranian government sought to carry out a political assassination in the United States, a case that was investigated weeks before a gunman tried to kill former President Trump.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

So the FBI was actively engaging this guy in June and finally arrested him one day before former President Trump was shot but the Secret Service didn't see the Red Light blinking and consider the Iranians a serious enough threat to further augment Trumps Detail and provide them basic resources such as a drone and a couple of Dog Teams???

What if the Iranians weren't putting all their eggs in one basket and hired a Venezuelan or a Cartel member to work to hire someone to go after him too? That's not even considering all the other obvious threats out there...

That's not just incompetence..., that smacks of willful negligence... Rowe has got to Go too!
 
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I would think drones should be mandatory at all outdoor events involving protected people.

Wonder how close we are to having an AI program be able to instantly scan images/feeds for guns, a prone person, etc?
 
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