In meeting with Vance, Zelenskyy says Ukraine needs "real security guarantees"
In Munich, Vice President JD Vance met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy to discuss ending the war in Ukraine.
www.cbsnews.com
Russia-Ukraine war has begun
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
- Start date
www.cbsnews.com
I follow that guy, too. He is pretty decent.
But I listen to Trump on Ukraine and what I hear him say is nothing like what is reported. The Ukrainian Xers are convinced he's sold Ukraine out and he's not going to meet with Zelensky..... oops, Oh wait, he is going to meet with Zelensky but he's already made a deal with Putin, etc., etc., etc.
And it's not just one side. most of MAGA thinks we're going to totally cut Ukraine off and I highly doubt that's going to happen unless Zelesky just tells Trump to F off. Which he's not going to do.
I'm all for the US giving Ukraine whatever they need, but damn - can't the EU just once step up and protect themselves without whining for the US to bail them out? I'm getting sick of them talking about Trump sucking up to Putin. Do they think that's going to make the US want to help them?
The more I read X, the less I feel Europe is any smarter than the US. After working with them, I realize they are plenty smart enough, but their knowledge of the US (other than the ones who've lived here), think we're still killing Indians and you have to dodge bullets to leave your house. Never forget these English guys that stared, literally with mouths open, when I told them I had a gun. Totally foreign to them.
Said what? Trump conceded nothing. You're reading reports of what he said and I've seen nothing that he's conceded.
- We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine. But we must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective.
- Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering.
- A durable peace for Ukraine must include robust security guarantees to ensure that the war will not begin again.
- This must not be Minsk 3.0.
- That said, the United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement.
Opening Remarks by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth at Ukraine Defense Contact Group (As
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth delivered opening remarks at a meeting of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group in Brussels.
www.defense.gov
Well, that was walked back by Vance. Pete doesn't make policy. Bottom line is, he's saying NATO membership is not a realistic outcome now. It doesn't mean it can't be used as a threat.
- We want, like you, a sovereign and prosperous Ukraine. But we must start by recognizing that returning to Ukraine's pre-2014 borders is an unrealistic objective.
- Chasing this illusionary goal will only prolong the war and cause more suffering.
- A durable peace for Ukraine must include robust security guarantees to ensure that the war will not begin again.
- This must not be Minsk 3.0.
- That said, the United States does not believe that NATO membership for Ukraine is a realistic outcome of a negotiated settlement.
Opening Remarks by Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth at Ukraine Defense Contact Group (As
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth delivered opening remarks at a meeting of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group in Brussels.www.defense.gov
This is a tempest in a teapot.
I agree it is no big deal. But had someone said that under Biden there would have been 30 threads on how incompetent Biden's administration was.
Hard to say, since no one in the Biden Administration showed the slightest interest in stopping the war.
Ukraine balks at signing Trump deal to hand over its mineral wealth
The U.S. and Ukraine are back-and-forthing on a deal to exploit Kyiv’s rare earths in return for Washington’s support.
www.politico.eu
Pete Hegseth made a mistake that a more qualified Secretary of Defense wouldn't have made. He said that both NATO membership and the reinstatement of Ukraine’s pre-2014 borders were unrealistic outcomes, which kind of took both those bargaining chips off the table. Luckily, I guess, we have a President who supporters say you can't believe everything he says (or by extension, his administration) seriously. Those things will be immediately back on the table if President Trump says they are.
Cardinal mistake by not placing the qualifier "at this time" or "in this moment", to his statement. I'm sure that he has now been schooled to ALWAYS ad a qualifier, that makes any statement to total and complete waste of air and time. Learning how to say nothing, with a lot of words, will take a minute but he isn't stupid.
Read this thread - it's a little lengthy but an easy read.
I think it reads like he has an ace up his sleeve. I wonder if Ukraine intelligence knows something, because he's changed his style from begging to one of cold analysis.
Interesting thought. I was initially, "dude, you are over a barrel". But knowing that (Trump) any negotiation must start with tall undeliverables so one can bargain down from there, I simply expected to land on somewhat lower %'s.
You are thinking he knows something... hmmmm Maybe just good negotiation, or maybe a little of both. I know that UAF have been taking back some ground lately (however very samll gains). Time will tell.
I read where Ukraine has fiber optic drones with up to 10km of fiber. Evidently they are kicking the shit out of the Russians whenever they pop their heads up.
I just sense a different, more confident, tone, in his interview. Maybe a negotiating ploy, who knows.
Maybe the EU will get its shit together and stop acting like a bunch of entitled elites and get their hands dirty, for once.
Actually both sides have started using much more fiber drones, but yes UAF are achieving a much higher causality ratio. I've saw a few vid's in the last 2ish weeks of fields that look like spider webs.
Russia has started using Donkeys to infill supplies too ( I think mentioned up above in this thread).
Yesterday RUS losses and this actually seems to historically track pretty accurate. Personnel numbers for this day were up about 500 over the last week'ish, but tanks down about 10-12 over the same time. There seems to be consensus that the report has accidentally reversed the AFV's and Artillery #'s for this day, but expect a correction tomorrow. Should be 1 Milion effected orch personnel by first part of June, 25'.
We’re striking a deal with Putin.
This isn’t going to end well for us.
This isn’t going to end well for us.
If we’re cutting Europe and Ukraine out of negotiations, that very, very wrong.
Most definitely.
And they will object to this with more than just harsh words, I’m sure.
Russia won't accept Nato troops in Ukraine, Lavrov says after talks with US
The meeting was the first time since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine that Russian and American delegations are known to have met face-to-face.
www.bbc.com
1 meeting and you know this already?
I'm willing to wait until an actual announcement comes out before I piss my pants like some of you.
I don't agree with it, but I think this was just a preliminary meeting with Rubio being new.
Eventually, Ukraine will have to be involved, but I'm sure we don't want to skupper the procedings by having Ukraine and Russia screaming at each other across the table the first round.
This is why I'm not too worried about Ukraine being sold out. Russia will never agree to a peacekeeping force in the contested areas and the US won't agree to anything without a security component to it.Russia won't accept Nato troops in Ukraine, Lavrov says after talks with US
The meeting was the first time since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine that Russian and American delegations are known to have met face-to-face.
Eventually, I think Trump will realize he's getting played and put the hammer down.
I think it's finally dawning on the rest of Europe that they need to step up and take the lead in protecting their own territory. And that's a good thing, imo.
As usual, the Trump supporters will defend this. Never in my life could I imagine a sitting president blaming the country that was invaded. Incomprehensible.
I am 100% sure that this (although VERY HARSH) doesn't mean what you WANT it to mean.
I miss the good old days when "American's" knew how to negotiate from... Oh never mind.
Yes it sounds harsh, if you are todays mashed potato's or hell, legacy get along for personal gain republicans. Lets see where this ends, it won't be where you think.
He shouldn't have said Ukraine started it. That was stupid. He could have achieved everything he wanted to without making that faux paus.
Wait and watch this play out. This is not YOUR Joe Biden negotiating. WAIT FOR IT !
If it explodes, I'll come back hat in hand. Trump doesn't lose often, BUT it has happened. Again, lets wait for it! Doctorate class has began, eggshell liberals (Americans) need to watch and learn. Please don't lose sleep over this (it's not worth it), it's not going to end how you all are prophesying. This NEXT existential catastrophe won't flood NYC by 2004............ Just sayin... WE are onto your scheme and LAUGH AND LAUGH AND LAUGH ! AT YOU, not with you. The gig is up.
Umm, I hope you are not expecting me to disagree.
The Sum bich always pulls this stuff, and wins. I'm hoping for a c+ in this class and I will be damn happy.
He's Playin with Match Box 20 $ at this point ! I gotta watch it play out.
You are missing the point Joe. It's insanity to accuse a country indisputably attacked by another for "causing it". Would you justify Mexico attacking the U.S. because we said mean things or imposed tariffs?
It's okay to be critical of Trump when he says something as stupid as what you've claimed you won't defend, yet you're here telling me he didn't mean what he said in the first place.
This is why people on the left say people on the right are in a cult. A statement claiming Ukraine started the war with Russia is something that some will defend, giving our favorite excuse, that's not what he meant.
