Russia-Ukraine war has begun
- Thread starter TheOriginalHappyGoat
- Start date
Ukraine and Russia trade long-range attacks as officials probe possibilities for peace
Russian forces have targeted Ukraine’s energy and gas infrastructure in a “massive” missile attack, while Ukrainian drones struck an important oil refinery inside Russia, officials said.
apnews.com
An obvious negotiating tactic:
www.france24.com
Ukraine prepared to swap Russian territory in peace negotiations, Zelensky says
Kyiv would be prepared to exchange Russian territory seized in its Kursk offensive last year in return for Ukrainian land under Russian control, President Volodymyr Zelensky said Tuesday. He also told…
www.france24.com
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An obvious strategy:
Ukraine prepared to swap Russian territory in peace negotiations, Zelensky says
Kyiv would be prepared to exchange Russian territory seized in its Kursk offensive last year in return for Ukrainian land under Russian control, President Volodymyr Zelensky said Tuesday. He also told…
Off-topic, on that page I loved that after I said no to cookies I got a warning that "lower quality ads may appear" due to my choice.
If you’re an iPhone or Apple user this should get you past the paywall, I think:
apple.news
Trump Says He and Putin Agreed to Begin Talks on Ending Ukraine War — The Wall Street Journal
U.S. president says he also spoke with Ukraine’s Zelensky as his administration pushes for a swift end to the conflict
That deal is offering them everything they want up front. Trump prides himself on the art of the deal and this deal is basically Russia saying they want $20 for the toy they are wanting to sell and Trump countering with, "Nope, $30 and not a penny more...."
Russia lost how many ships?
The main thing I agreed with from the post was the NATO component and that’s all I commented on other than saying I don’t think Russia comes out a winner in this thing.
What was Russia's goals in starting the conflict? You can say it may be a Pyrrhic Victory given the heavy losses but if they end up with control of all the Oblasts they had initially targeted, then that is a success for them. They achieved their strategic goal, even if it was at a high cost.
Donetsk, Luhansk, no Ukraine in NATO....that is 3 strategic objectives. That is a win for them and they give up nothing at the negotiating table. Even if you don't intend to back Ukraine forever, you should make them feel that way going to negotiate.
If another person had announced before negotiations that we were conceding their goals, they would get blasted.
What I have not seen mentioned here is that Ukraine surpassed causing 850,000 KIA/WIA/captured Russian troops and 10,000 tanks all on the same day, about 4-5 days ago. Monumental #'s of Russian losses, but the beat goes on and the 30 day average of Russian casualties (KIA/WIA/ Captured) are around 1,400 per day. Unthinkable! Go the eff home already and be prepared to pay for your damage in a multitude of ways!
Frozen conflict seems to be the only answer. I would be surprised if this hasn’t been discussed for months
I personally don't want to expand NATO to Ukraine but that would be one of my bargaining chips. Russia withdraws, Ukraine leaves Kursk, and we agree not to offer NATO membership to Ukraine (although bilateral defense agreements could be made). If Russia balked at withdrawing, I tell them I intend to incorporate Ukraine into NATO and will arm them to the teeth.
Are you ready for boots on the ground? Wouldn’t we have that obligation with Ukraine in NATO?
To get a guarantee of no Ukraine in NATO, Russia needs to give something up. It might be land, it may be a crap ton of cash to rebuild Ukraine, but something real.
Well, I guess if I have to push it that far. The actual goal would be they withdraw and we don't offer NATO membership. If they don't play ball then you start the process. It doesn't have to be fast tracked like we did for Finland and Sweden.
I said before I don't think Ukraine in NATO is realistic, but let's be honest, with the state of Russia's military, we could absolutely go to Ukraine. We just have to be careful to stay only a defensive footing. No more incursions into Russia. Just kill them as they cross the border.
Probably only a 30% chance we see a ceasefire in the next 6 months
Mapping Russia's war on Ukraine
Live maps of territorial control provide an up-to-date overview of the situation on the ground
storymaps.arcgis.com
Trump upends US policy on Ukraine and says he and Putin have agreed to begin talks on ending the war
President Donald Trump has upended three years of U.S. policy toward Ukraine, saying he and Russian leader Vladimir Putin have agreed to begin negotiations on ending the war.
apnews.com
Senior Ukraine official accused of being Russian 'rat'
Intelligence chief Vasyl Malyuk was seen personally arresting the suspect, named by media as Dmytro Kozyura.
www.bbc.com
Surely the US wouldn’t negotiate a deal with Russia to end Russia’s aggression against Ukraine without Ukraine at the table:
