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Roster turnover and team chemistry

You should be extremely glad we are able to bring these guys in..., I mean are you really advocating it's a good idea to stand pat personnel wise after the season we've just had???

I'm hoping for 4 or 5 more Portal guys... This isn't the peewee version of Little League baseball where everyone gets to play... LEO doesn't work like that... There is no rewarding mediocrity anywhere within its concept...

LEO is a concept that's embraced by literally nearly every high functioning military outfit on the planet, so it's not just some passing fad..., and it's Results based...

Transfer Portal guys can embrace the LEO concept just as incoming Freshmen can... If they've done their due diligence as to learning about the program they're transferring to I'm certain they'll have no problem operating within the LEO concepts. They are most likely looking forward to it and it's most likely part of the reason they're headed here...

You're creating a phantom problem... LEO appears to be literally the one thing that the program has done right this year... It's the foundation we can immediately rebuild on...

I'm looking at 2021 as a self made catastrophe of Force 5 Hurricane proportions that we've endured, moved past and have now moved to the damage assessment and rebuilding phase. We're bringing in reclaimed beams and other key building material as we speak. The foundation still exists which makes the rebuild at least somewhat less difficult...

Now let's hope that TA has chosen the right contractors... 😑 I could tell him some horror stories about hiring formerly trusted friends for an important project...😖
 
Staying and providing quality depth is important to a program like IU. Its loving your brothers more than playing time at G5.

This many transfers though?

If it was 5 or 6, ok. But as many as we have? Something gives. We were 2-10 last year, with fights on the sideline. It's not like we were 8-4 with every starter is back! Playing time is there to be WON AND EARNED!
According to comments from a couple of players a number of players weren't working hard this summer, which I think is them buying into their hype, and it showed this fall on offense.
 
LEO is not a novel concept. It’s been around forever on pretty much most any team. Allen just applied a name to it. It’s team above self. It’s playing complimentary football. Each unit feeding off the other. Picking up your teammate. It doesn’t mean no accountability and there are no promises up front. I have yet to hear an interview where Allen announces some grand plan for a recruit and even hints somebody will start. It’s the same line every time: “They will have a chance to come in and compete for a starting spot.” There are, however, many coaches out there who make all sorts of promises to land guys. Maybe it works to land some kid but it cannot help much with team morale when reality sets in.
Agree every team has their "shtick " in one form or another
 
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Agree every team has their "shtick " in one form or another
They do, but most do not put as much emphasis on it. LEO has really magnified our recruiting efforts, it has helped differentiate us from other schools. If you are sending your son miles from home to play football, you want to be sure he is in good hands with a coaching staff that is looking to develop him not only as a football player, but as a man
 
You are the one that made the claim 10 was unprecedented. It is indeed not.

Teams have brought more then that last year and this year. Was just pointing that out to you.
My whole premise is LEO and roster turnover. Therefore transfers is unprecedented for IU. Has that ever happened?

It doesn't matter if University of Whatever has 35. This thread is about IU and LEO.
 
You should be extremely glad we are able to bring these guys in..., I mean are you really advocating it's a good idea to stand pat personnel wise after the season we've just had???

I'm hoping for 4 or 5 more Portal guys... This isn't the peewee version of Little League baseball where everyone gets to play... LEO doesn't work like that... There is no rewarding mediocrity anywhere within its concept...

LEO is a concept that's embraced by literally nearly every high functioning military outfit on the planet, so it's not just some passing fad..., and it's Results based...

Transfer Portal guys can embrace the LEO concept just as incoming Freshmen can... If they've done their due diligence as to learning about the program they're transferring to I'm certain they'll have no problem operating within the LEO concepts. They are most likely looking forward to it and it's most likely part of the reason they're headed here...

You're creating a phantom problem... LEO appears to be literally the one thing that the program has done right this year... It's the foundation we can immediately rebuild on...

I'm looking at 2021 as a self made catastrophe of Force 5 Hurricane proportions that we've endured, moved past and have now moved to the damage assessment and rebuilding phase. We're bringing in reclaimed beams and other key building material as we speak. The foundation still exists which makes the rebuild at least somewhat less difficult...

Now let's hope that TA has chosen the right contractors... 😑 I could tell him some horror stories about hiring formerly trusted friends for an important project...😖
I never said I was unhappy with the guys we brought in. But 2021 tested LEO with sideline fights and MID-YEAR transfers. And I dont think its unreasonable to question if this unprecedented roster turnover at IU is going to test LEO in 2022.
 
My whole premise is LEO and roster turnover. Therefore transfers is unprecedented for IU. Has that ever happened?

It doesn't matter if University of Whatever has 35. This thread is about IU and LEO.

Last year, according to 247 page, we had 10 players transfer out. The year before, we had 7 transfer out.

Players transferring out isn't something new here.
 
Last year, according to 247 page, we had 10 players transfer out. The year before, we had 7 transfer out.

Players transferring out isn't something new here.
So did those transfers benefit or hurt IU in 2021? How did LEO handle that last year? How will LEO handle 2022?
 
So did those transfers benefit or hurt IU in 2021? How did LEO handle that last year? How will LEO handle 2022?

I have no idea how much it hurt or helped... in 2020, people had zero issue with it. This year, people all of a sudden have a issue. I tend to think injuries were more of a issue last year then who transferred in and out, especially at the quarterback position, when we were down to realistically our fifth option with Penix, Tuttle and Williams all out with injuries and McCulley not ready for big 10 play.
 
I have no idea how much it hurt or helped... in 2020, people had zero issue with it. This year, people all of a sudden have a issue. I tend to think injuries were more of a issue last year then who transferred in and out, especially at the quarterback position, when we were down to realistically our fifth option with Penix, Tuttle and Williams all out with injuries and McCulley not ready for big 10 play.
Well that is the whole question I posed with this thread. Will all these transfers hurt or help? You have no idea. And that is fine. But don't act like my question is unreasonable when we finished 2-10 last year after 7 players transferred out (and more transferred MID season).

We lacked depth. We lacked leadership. This debacle was more than just losing 2 quarterbacks like you lazily chose to minimize it to. Absolutely lazy.
 
Well that is the whole question I posed with this thread. Will all these transfers hurt or help? You have no idea. And that is fine. But don't act like my question is unreasonable when we finished 2-10 last year after 7 players transferred out (and more transferred MID season).

We lacked depth. We lacked leadership. This debacle was more than just losing 2 quarterbacks like you lazily chose to minimize it to. Absolutely lazy.
According to McFadden and a couple quoted in the press it was the lack of effort in the summer by players because they were buying into the hype. It was also due to a very bad offense and an OC that couldn't adjust to defenses - ask coach Allen. It wasn't due to the transfers but disgruntled players and a bad OL that hasn't develop talent on the OL.
 
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Agree, except for the last paragraph. HS sports are meritocracies as well 99.9 % of the time. The politics angle is the mantra of disgruntled parents who always want the starting five to be made up of their kid and the four best players.
There is argument that the folks that don’t acknowledge politics are occurring in high school athletics are typically the ones benefiting from it or participating in it.

ive been around large and small schools alike and there have been kids getting the benefit of daddy ball or buddy ball for years. These coaches don’t give two shakes if everyone knows it’s rigged for some kids. It’s about accountability. once the coaches know there isn’t any accountability they revert back to being the adolescents they really are.

example, (one of many but literary the most egregious one) I watched a coaches kid start and play as many minutes as all other starters on an 8th grade bball team (I was an neutral party with no skin in the program) when the coaches kid literally didn’t even know there was a game going on around him. It was 4 vs 5 every game most of the game … and the kid was the size of a 5th grader and could have been replaced by the water cooler. Coach goes to a different school, bunch of seniors (who were good) drop out after meeting him, and the team is a joke after being above average the year prior. This stuff happens. Some schools have zero regard for their athletic program or the kids at their school. Shocker right. Anyone seen what’s going on in Virginia? Do people really think the all public school employees care for the kids? Clearly not.

people thinking politics and daddy/buddy ball don’t happen at the high school level are delusional … or are most likely the ones benefiting from it.
 
According to McFadden and a couple quoted in the press it was the lack of effort in the summer by players because they were buying into the hype. It was also due to a very bad offense and an OC that couldn't adjust to defenses - ask coach Allen. It wasn't due to the transfers but disgruntled players and a bad OL that hasn't develop talent on the OL.
First of all, Merry Christmas.

Second of all, everyone keeps ignoring the transfers at RB that hurt us in 21. Especially considering one of them was a 4 star right before the season, and the other was middle of the year. You can't tell me that when Carr went down, we couldn't have used Baldwin and James? Baldwin was getting carries behind Carr at the #2 back. Are you telling me he wasn't good enough to get carries because he had a fumble vs Cincy?

And if we had those two RBs, don't you think we could have had a more reliable rushing game to help out or QBs? Perhaps not be so one-dimensional because our remaining RBs were walkons?

Players were leaving mid-year, didnt even care enough to finish the season out with their brothers. Now I see Reece committed to freaking Purdue of all places. That's 3 Hoosiers that would rather play at the swamp up north than stick with LEO.

It's just a whole new paradigm now with the Portal. It gives players an easy in and out if they dont like how things are going instead if buying into the program as a whole. I mean, look at Buckley. Transferred in 4/28/2021 from TA&M, an SEC underachiever. 7 months later he put his name back in the Portal on 11/29/2021. 7 months. It's not like we're overflowing with WR talent over here that he cant work to get a starting job. How many of these guys in 2022 are another Buckley? Players going to IU from an SEC school expecting playing time but transfer right out when things get tough?
 
LEO is not a novel concept. It’s been around forever on pretty much most any team. Allen just applied a name to it. It’s team above self. It’s playing complimentary football. Each unit feeding off the other. Picking up your teammate. It doesn’t mean no accountability and there are no promises up front. I have yet to hear an interview where Allen announces some grand plan for a recruit and even hints somebody will start. It’s the same line every time: “They will have a chance to come in and compete for a starting spot.” There are, however, many coaches out there who make all sorts of promises to land guys. Maybe it works to land some kid but it cannot help much with team morale when reality sets in.
Disagree a little. LEO contains an element of New Testament “love” - not just “team”

”not caring who gets the credit” is also confusingly close to “not caring/not complaining about who plays” - which is much different than “team”

Agree that ”get a chance to compete” is the norm though, and all Coach Allen ever says or does

Mark Twain said “there is nothing more annoying than a good example.” If the morality outweighs the football, I think we get problems. It’s a delicate balance.
 
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There is argument that the folks that don’t acknowledge politics are occurring in high school athletics are typically the ones benefiting from it or participating in it.

ive been around large and small schools alike and there have been kids getting the benefit of daddy ball or buddy ball for years. These coaches don’t give two shakes if everyone knows it’s rigged for some kids. It’s about accountability. once the coaches know there isn’t any accountability they revert back to being the adolescents they really are.

example, (one of many but literary the most egregious one) I watched a coaches kid start and play as many minutes as all other starters on an 8th grade bball team (I was an neutral party with no skin in the program) when the coaches kid literally didn’t even know there was a game going on around him. It was 4 vs 5 every game most of the game … and the kid was the size of a 5th grader and could have been replaced by the water cooler. Coach goes to a different school, bunch of seniors (who were good) drop out after meeting him, and the team is a joke after being above average the year prior. This stuff happens. Some schools have zero regard for their athletic program or the kids at their school. Shocker right. Anyone seen what’s going on in Virginia? Do people really think the all public school employees care for the kids? Clearly not.

people thinking politics and daddy/buddy ball don’t happen at the high school level are delusional … or are most likely the ones benefiting from it.
Two questions: Since when is 8th grade high school (since the topic is hs sports) ? If your kid isn't playing, why the hell are you so interested in 8th grade basketball ( no one outside of parents and grandparents give a shit about middle school sports) ?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you aren't a person with "no skin in the program" , and that the kid you are invested in isn't very good. Therefore, in your mind, it's all politics. I've been hearing this stupid shit for forty years - even from the fans of teams who are winning championships. They all have the same things in common; none of them attends practice every day and none of them runs the risk of getting fired if the team doesn't win.
 
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First of all, Merry Christmas.

Second of all, everyone keeps ignoring the transfers at RB that hurt us in 21. Especially considering one of them was a 4 star right before the season, and the other was middle of the year. You can't tell me that when Carr went down, we couldn't have used Baldwin and James? Baldwin was getting carries behind Carr at the #2 back. Are you telling me he wasn't good enough to get carries because he had a fumble vs Cincy?

And if we had those two RBs, don't you think we could have had a more reliable rushing game to help out or QBs? Perhaps not be so one-dimensional because our remaining RBs were walkons?

Players were leaving mid-year, didnt even care enough to finish the season out with their brothers. Now I see Reece committed to freaking Purdue of all places. That's 3 Hoosiers that would rather play at the swamp up north than stick with LEO.

It's just a whole new paradigm now with the Portal. It gives players an easy in and out if they dont like how things are going instead if buying into the program as a whole. I mean, look at Buckley. Transferred in 4/28/2021 from TA&M, an SEC underachiever. 7 months later he put his name back in the Portal on 11/29/2021. 7 months. It's not like we're overflowing with WR talent over here that he cant work to get a starting job. How many of these guys in 2022 are another Buckley? Players going to IU from an SEC school expecting playing time but transfer right out when things get tough?
I think the walk-on RB proved to be as serviceable as the scholarship RBs. No the running game wouldn't have been any more reliable as they were early in the year as a poor OL and play calling limited the running game no matter who was in the game. I agree there is a different paradigm with the transfer portal right now and we will see if it continues.
 
The Transfer Portal reminds me of an old Army joke where this Drill Sargeant took his new recruits out on a 3 week training hike. They went 3 whole weeks without bathing or changing clothes. Finally on the last day of the exercise, the Sargeant tried to boost moral. He got their hopes up when he said, " Today men l'm going to let you change underwear.... Johnson you change with Smith and Smith you change with Jones....".
There are some good pickups and pleasant surprises but it seems that most of the transfers turn out to be like trading each other's dirty underwear. In other words, no one gains much ground. Sometimes you hit the jackpot. R. Anderson, Kramer and DJ Matthew's for instance were excellent pickups but Handy, Buckley, Powell, Carr and Haynes were just so so.
Maybe, like in the case of Mike Penix, kids just need a fresh new start. Sometimes the change of scenery can just be what the Doctor orders.
Here is to hoping that The Portal can help IU a lot more than hurt them!
82
Think Handy & Carr were better than just so so. Powell played a lot but didn’t seem to be great that’s for sure. Buckley & Haynes, virtually zero contributions. Not all will hit, but I think last year and this one coming up, IU traded out almost all guys not playing much (save Taylor) but will be getting in more players who can/will contribute which is a plus for IU.
 
I dont think the guys that are leaving did not necessarily buy into the leo philosophy. I believe in the majority of cases they are leaving because of a lack of playing time.
Exactly. The vast majority of transfers don't like the PT or the way they were used. If an incoming unhappy player is better than the one that left...you benefit. If not...well...
 
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My whole premise is LEO and roster turnover. Therefore transfers is unprecedented for IU. Has that ever happened?

It doesn't matter if University of Whatever has 35. This thread is about IU and LEO.

It's only fair to compare transfers from this past summer and transfers now.

When players were having to sit out a year to transfer or get a waiver from the NCAA, of course there will be less transfers. Comparing to before this summer is comparing apples to oranges. The number of transfers increased for everyone and had nothing to do with LEO or anything else.
 
LEO is way overrated. People here are treating it as if some love potion #9 keeping us all in line while providing our IU team a potential crack at "oneupmanship" over other teams. All coaches stress the family atmosphere if they think that's what a player and/or his parents want to hear. "Love Thy Neighbor" (but don't get caught!) to a player with a locker next to yours is all it really says since biblical days. In this more modern, secular world of dog/eat dog, until LEO starts winning games, it's merely a cute acronym of mortal Man. I hope I'm wrong.
 
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Two questions: Since when is 8th grade high school (since the topic is hs sports) ? If your kid isn't playing, why the hell are you so interested in 8th grade basketball ( no one outside of parents and grandparents give a shit about middle school sports) ?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you aren't a person with "no skin in the program" , and that the kid you are invested in isn't very good. Therefore, in your mind, it's all politics. I've been hearing this stupid shit for forty years - even from the fans of teams who are winning championships. They all have the same things in common; none of them attends practice every day and none of them runs the risk of getting fired if the team doesn't win.
Happy new year. Your limb just broke.

to answer your questions … my kid was in elementary and I wanted to get a handle on how the school politics worked … because they are almost ALWAYS going on … so my family bought the all school sports family pass every year and we lived pretty close to the school. We went and watched many many middle school games over the years … what I saw was almost always dads coaching their kids and their kid’s buddies … my family is a bunch of basketball junkies so going to games is what we did back then (older kids now so doesn’t allow for as much free time).

So, you’re absolutely wrong about who cares (or used to care) about middle school ball. This is Indiana, people here used to care about the game and support their school, regardless of age group. I went to a 5A varsity game a few years back, pre-Covid, and the only people there were the players parents. And the team wasn’t bad. Times are a changing. People are more selfish every day.

Next point, and not that it matters, but here goes. my kids are better then the average kid their age. Much better. I’ll leave it at that. Anything more will sound like bragging. I knew school/daddy politics were real and told them the only way to guarantee floor time is to be so much better then everyone else the coach has no choice but to play you. They took it to heart and found joy in the game. Being good at the game was happy coincidence.

My boys play in a semi-small puddle of competition … we could afford a bigger school, but athletics aren’t as important as environment and education. I say this to tell you that I’m not some disgruntled parent … my boys get more then their fair share of playing time (they rarely come out unless it’s a blow out or they need a breather). For good or bad, I’m one who has seen the dark under belly of youth sports. Parents who can’t say no to their kids, which is the society that we now live in. Parents who kiss up to varsity coaches in hopes of weaseling a spot for their kid. Parents who want to coddle their kids and not allow them to fail … parents that don’t allow their kids to figure out that hard work is more important then someone there to put a pillow under your rear every time to fall.

So, you are pretty much wrong about everything you typed. You are likely one of those that have participated in or took advantage of buddy ball and politics in the past and have to die on your sword that these things don’t happen and it isn’t a real thing. I hate to peg you that way, but experience tells me the ones who staunchly deny it are typically the perpetrators. Anybody with a brain knows better then to say daddy/buddy ball and school politics don’t happen. FYI, coaches in puddles dont get fired when they pull this garbage (no matter how much they lose), because there are very few adults who are willing to put the time in for the pennies they get paid. Therefore, many of the guys nowadays who do step into the spot typically are spineless when it involves their kids or their kid’s friends. And it’s getting worse each year. Makes sense though, caring for ALL the kids is a lost ethic in the current age.
 
LEO is way overrated. People here are treating it as if some love potion #9 keeping us all in line while providing our IU team a potential crack at "oneupmanship" over other teams. All coaches stress the family atmosphere if they think that's what a player and/or his parents want to hear. "Love Thy Neighbor" (but don't get caught!) to a player with a locker next to yours is all it really says since biblical days. In this more modern, secular world of dog/eat dog, until LEO starts winning games, it's merely a cute acronym of mortal Man. I hope I'm wrong.
Check out what a several players said about coach Meyer and how he treated players to see why families love what coach Allen's LEO. I wouldn't have played for him either. Meyer has had scandals on the field and off the field but several fans wanted him here at IU. It is no wonder he hired coach Wilson with his issues.
 
Check out what a several players said about coach Meyer and how he treated players to see why families love what coach Allen's LEO. I wouldn't have played for him either. Meyer has had scandals on the field and off the field but several fans wanted him here at IU. It is no wonder he hired coach Wilson with his issues.
A lot of IU fans don't want a Knight type now either. "Kinder/gentler society" is the mantra now-discipline is dead, for better or for worse. Feelings can't be hurt because hurt feelings might lead to mass shootings. I think the big problem with society today is that our numbers (population) are getting so large that it's becoming more difficult (soon to be impossible) to control. People are being encouraged by others to feel they're being mistreated, leading to uprisings of protest, leading to change, not necessarily better for everyone.
 
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A lot of IU fans don't want a Knight type now either. "Kinder/gentler society" is the mantra now-discipline is dead, for better or for worse. Feelings can't be hurt because hurt feelings might lead to mass shootings. I think the big problem with society today is that our numbers (population) are getting so large that it's becoming more difficult (soon to be impossible) to control. People are being encouraged by others to feel they're being mistreated, leading to uprisings of protest, leading to change, not necessarily better for everyone.
Democrats are letting in too many immigrants to gain more votes for them because some states let them vote and don't want IDs to show who is voting. They scream Republican are keeping people to not limit the voting because the democrats want all the votes [no matter who they are and voting harvesting, win all the time.
 
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