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RIP Ivana

This is truly not a criticism: That’s your opinion. Clearly others think differently. Because as good intentioned as you may be, how you would feel or how you think you would feel have no relevance to this particular girl

In these situations, shouldn’t we be satisfied that such a personal and traumatic situation is decided between the girl, her parents, and her doctor?

Assuming she could carry a baby to term safely (which I’m skeptical of), would she be happier for having done it in retrospect? Possibly, I guess. Are any of us remotely qualified to make that decision for her? Hell to the no. This case is the most clear cut example of “her body, her choice.”
I think this kind of case is the perfect example of why it's possible for someone to be "pro-life" and "pro-choice" at the same time. I personally would prefer to avoid abortion in every case possible, but I just don't see how it's appropriate for the government to be making that call instead of the woman, and this is exactly why.
 
I think this kind of case is the perfect example of why it's possible for someone to be "pro-life" and "pro-choice" at the same time. I personally would prefer to avoid abortion in every case possible, but I just don't see how it's appropriate for the government to be making that call instead of the woman, and this is exactly why.
Exactly. No one is celebrating having an abortion. No one is "pro" abortion.
 
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Exactly. No one is celebrating having an abortion. No one is "pro" abortion.
Meh. I don't think that's true. I think a lot of activists celebrate it as some sort of women's lib in practice. I'm not saying the women actually getting the abortions are doing this. But I think quite a few of the activists who imagine they are giving those women support are doing this.
 
Meh. I don't think that's true. I think a lot of activists celebrate it as some sort of women's lib in practice. I'm not saying the women actually getting the abortions are doing this. But I think quite a few of the activists who imagine they are giving those women support are doing this.
Well, that's obviously anecdotal. I've known people who've gotten abortions and it has been incredibly traumatic. Both for the guy and the woman.
 
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Well, that's obviously anecdotal. I've known people who've gotten abortions and it has been incredibly traumatic. Both for the guy and the woman.
Yes, that's why I made a distinction between the patients and the activists. Did you listen to the interview on NPR a couple of weeks ago with the woman who had to get an abortion because she found out her baby had a universally fatal trisomy? It was heart-breaking, but what struck me was her anger at both conservatives and liberals, who she felt failed to even attempt to understand her pain and reasoning, although for obviously wildly different reasons.
 
Ivana looked ill in some of the recent pictures of her. He mother on the other hand is still alive.
 
She has already gone through tremendous heartache. I feel terrible for her. My argument is how can you lessen the trauma. I don't think that the abortion achieves the healing she needs. Man, this is a messed up situation. There are no great decisions. Each has its own set of problems. I mentioned in another thread that the Evangelist James Robison was the product of a date rape. His mother went ahead and had him. He grew up, got married, had kids, and grandkids. I would think his mother was glad she had him.
Yes, but you have now told your story twice about "the Evangelist James Robison," within a week of claiming you do not inject religion in your posts. Admit it -- an Evangelist is a religious figure in Protestant churches.

Try your blatantly religious analysis on this one.

Charles Manson was born to an unmarried 15-year-old girl. Did Manson grow up, get married, have kids, and do you think his mother was glad she had him? Did Manson cure cancer? Achieve world peace? End poverty? Prevent war? Provide health services in third-world countries or western Pennsylvania?

Don't say you won't inject religion into your posts, "Pastor," unless you are honest in saying so.
 
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These are the people who don't believe vaccines work. VPM spends his days reading and preaching Bronze Age folklore to his "flock".

No way anyone is going to change these lunatics mind if they think a 10 year old rape victim should bring a pregnancy to term.

Their minds are unsound.
Please get the 2nd booster!
 
Now hold on. How does having an abortion bring any kind of healing to a 10 yr old who was raped? What if she gave the baby up for adoption. She could know that this child born out of violence could do something good in the world. Maybe that would bring better healing than having an abortion.
I cannot with you. Do you not know even the least bit about pregnancy? You want to put a 10 year old child through that? You need to pray on that one, it’s truly repulsive.
 
I am. As long as it isn't done too quickly or painlessly. I think it should be prolonged out over 9 months, involve a cantaloupe, exlax, stirups and Lamaze techiniques.
This dude should go to jail. Way worse than death. Hell they might even take matters into their own hands.
 
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Yes, that's why I made a distinction between the patients and the activists. Did you listen to the interview on NPR a couple of weeks ago with the woman who had to get an abortion because she found out her baby had a universally fatal trisomy? It was heart-breaking, but what struck me was her anger at both conservatives and liberals, who she felt failed to even attempt to understand her pain and reasoning, although for obviously wildly different reasons.
Yes, exactly.

As Everlast said:

"Mary got pregnant from a kid named Tom that said he was in love
He said, "Don't worry about a thing, baby doll I'm the man you've been dreaming of" But three months later he say he won't date her or return her calls
And she swear, "Goddamn, if I find that man I'm cuttin' off his balls"
And then she heads for the clinic and she gets some static walking through the door
They call her a killer, and they call her a sinner and they call her a whore
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in her shoes. 'Cause then you really might know what it's like to have to choose.

 
Now hold on. How does having an abortion bring any kind of healing to a 10 yr old who was raped? What if she gave the baby up for adoption. She could know that this child born out of violence could do something good in the world. Maybe that would bring better healing than having an abortion.
Dude, shut the hell up.
 
That’s fake. lol you guys fall for anything
It's not fake. Multiple people shared the email independently. Go check your inbox, I bet you'll find it there.

As I said above, it probably was not a case of anyone purposefully using her death to ask for money. That fundraising link probably gets automatically appended to every email the PAC sends out.
 
How so? There are not great decisions here. All of them stink. Mine at least gives the child a chance and for the 10 yr old rape victim to find some kind of healing and closure. The damage has been done by this monster.
I'm going to hold off saying what I'd really like to you.
 
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Honestly, that's probably just a footer that gets appended to all of their emails. I mean, obviously, someone with a brain should have turned the footer off before sending that, but it probably wasn't on purpose.
That is an incredibly lame excuse. If you're going to put out a statement about your ex-wife's death, make damned sure it doesn't have a fundraising link.

And...do you really think this isn't something DJT would do? The guy is already throwing Ivanka under the bus for her Jan 6 testimony. He. Does. Not. Care.
 
Keep in mind, according to Ivana's deposition, Trump RAPED her because his hair transplant or whatever you call that bird's nest on his head is called went awry.

"Hurt obtained a copy of her sworn divorce deposition, from 1990, in which she stated that, the previous year, her husband had raped her in a fit of rage. In Hurt’s account, Trump was furious that a “scalp reduction” operation he’d undergone to eliminate a bald spot had been unexpectedly painful. Ivana had recommended the plastic surgeon. In retaliation, Hurt wrote, Trump yanked out a handful of his wife’s hair, and then forced himself on her sexually. Afterward, according to the book, she spent the night locked in a bedroom, crying; in the morning, Trump asked her, “with menacing casualness, ‘Does it hurt?’ ” Trump has denied both the rape allegation and the suggestion that he had a scalp-reduction procedure. Hurt said that the incident, which is detailed in Ivana’s deposition, was confirmed by two of her friends."

 
That is an incredibly lame excuse. If you're going to put out a statement about your ex-wife's death, make damned sure it doesn't have a fundraising link.

And...do you really think this isn't something DJT would do? The guy is already throwing Ivanka under the bus for her Jan 6 testimony. He. Does. Not. Care.
It's an email from his PAC. He probably didn't do it. Some intern probably did. They screen capped his truth social post and stuck it in an email.
 
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It's an email from his PAC. He probably didn't do it. Some intern probably did. They screen capped his truth social post and stuck it in an email.
OK, we'll wait for a list of the firings resulting from this mistaken posting to show Trump's sensitivity to commercialization of her death (but we won't hold our breath).
 
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OK, we'll wait for a list of the firings resulting from this mistaken posting to show Trump's sensitivity to commercialization of her death (but we won't hold our breath).
This is the thing that's so odd. People keep attributing normal human traits to Donald Trump when he is not normal. He is a severely deranged person.
 
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