Rank the B1G Coaches

[fpeaugh]

Making a roster because of connections to someone and being a player by virtue of your ability are two totally different things. Not surprising in the least your inability to discern this.

Making a team? He was DRAFTED kid.

He averaged 20 PPG and All American his senior year taking Providence to the Final Four. I’d say he was a decent player.

 

[Cavanagh.6]

If he loses to two IPFW level opponents this year then follows it up by missing the tournament with two all conference players and 6 other four star recruits I’ll say he’s not qualified for the job. Especially if his recruiting class in year two is a four star and a three star with open scholarships out there. I’ll call it the dumpster fire that it is.

In his first year Howard has about a million times better team than Archie did his first year. He is returning 3 top 100 sophomores, gets Wagners little brother and another top 100 freshman, Seniors top 100 Xavier and Teske, and not to mention the best player not even ranked high in livers. Brooks would also have been our 3rd or 4th best player, a tad upgrade from Freddie.

Second year yes, total dumpster fire. But dont we have 3 commits all top 150 players for next year? Let this year play out and I will lead the parade if it is a dumpster fire.

 

[fpeaugh]

In his first year Howard has about a million times better team than Archie did his first year. He is returning 3 top 100 sophomores, gets Wagners little brother and another top 100 freshman, Seniors top 100 Xavier and Teske, and not to mention the best player not even ranked high in livers. Brooks would also have been our 3rd or 4th best player, a tad upgrade from Freddie.

Second year yes, total dumpster fire. But dont we have 3 commits all top 150 players for next year? Let this year play out and I will lead the parade if it is a dumpster fire.

We have 3 players who are all in the 100-150 range. Those aren’t difference makers.

Howard doesn’t have anyone as good as Morgan. And his 2nd player is no Robert Johnson. He might have more depth but he doesn’t have a better team. No way.

 

[Cavanagh.6]

We have 3 players who are all in the 100-150 range. Those aren’t difference makers.

Howard doesn’t have anyone as good as Morgan. And his 2nd player is no Robert Johnson. He might have more depth but he doesn’t have a better team. No way.

Livers was better than Morgan as a sophomore no question and Xavier Simpson was ranked 60 and is night and day better than Robert Johnson. And who is as close to as good as teske? He for sure is better than Brunk.

I’ll gladly bet one of those guys makes the all big ten team like Morgan did as a jr.

 

[jimmygoiu]

We have 3 players who are all in the 100-150 range. Those aren’t difference makers.

Howard doesn’t have anyone as good as Morgan. And his 2nd player is no Robert Johnson. He might have more depth but he doesn’t have a better team. No way.

Then why do ALL the publications have UM ranked in the upper third of the B1G and making the tourney?

 

[fpeaugh]

Livers was better than Morgan as a sophomore no question and Xavier Simpson was ranked 60 and is night and day better than Robert Johnson. And who is as close to as good as teske? He for sure is better than Brunk.

I’ll gladly bet one of those guys makes the all big ten team like Morgan did as a jr.

Morgan was a junior Archie’s freshman year. When he was All Big Ten. You’re making a huge assumption that Livers will go from 8 and 4 to as good as Morgan was as a Junior. Huge assumption.

 

[fpeaugh]

Then why do ALL the publications have UM ranked in the upper third of the B1G and making the tourney?

Because they don’t have Archie or John Groce as their coach. Why were we picked to finish near the top of the Big Ten by everyone last year?

 

[fpeaugh]

Then why do ALL the publications have UM ranked in the upper third of the B1G and making the tourney?

All of them?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/247spo...ffery-Luka-Garza-Joe-Wieskamp--136360369/Amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.si...ngs-michigan-state-maryland-purdue-ohio-state

I can’t find anyone who has them in the top 4.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Making a team? He was DRAFTED kid.

He averaged 20 PPG and All American his senior year taking Providence to the Final Four. I’d say he was a decent player.

He was drafted IN THE 3RD ROUND!

From Wikipedia:

“Donovan was drafted by the Utah Jazz in the third round (68th overall) of the 1987 NBA Draft, but was waived before the regular season began. He signed with the Wyoming Wildcatters of the Continental Basketball Association, hoping for another chance to play in the NBA. Rick Pitino left Providence after the team's Final Four run and returned to New York as the head coach of the New York Knicks. In December 1987, Donovan was reunited with his college coach when the Knicks signed him to a one-year contract.[9] He served as a reserve guard for the remainder of the 1987–88 season and averaged 2.4 points and 2.0 assists over 44 games.

The Knicks waived Donovan in March 1988. He did not make an NBA roster during the 1988–89 preseason, so he returned to the CBA, averaging 10.1 points per game with the Rapid City Thrillers.”


Again, he made an NBA roster only because Pitino was coaching the Knicks. The NBA shortened its draft to only 2 rounds because anyone beyond that just aren’t good enough to be an actual “player” - you know, guys who can actually PLAY at the NBA level?

YDS . . .

 

[Cavanagh.6]

Because they don’t have Archie or John Groce as their coach. Why were we picked to finish near the top of the Big Ten by everyone last year?

You’re ight, but you failed to mention livers numbers were better than Morgan’s his sophomore year. I am also willing to bet he or Xavier will be all big ten, so my huge assumption is backed up! You game???

 

[IU Hardcore]

And if my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle.

In today's world she can have balls & still be your uncle.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

In today's world she can have balls & still be your uncle.

Wrong.

In today’s world she doesn’t have to have balls to be your uncle.

 

[jimmygoiu]

Because they don’t have Archie or John Groce as their coach. Why were we picked to finish near the top of the Big Ten by everyone last year?

This helps explain last year, (per inside the hall, Brendon Armitage)

"I'm struggling to see why this team and coach have so many detractors. Last year's team finished 8th. Let's describe Archie's team from last year, shall we?
Our most available center was only 6'8" if you counted his hair.
Our best center only played 12 minutes/game.
Our "shooting guard" had a torn thumb ligament on his shooting hand, leaving him shooting 27% from 3, which meant he could only drive. When he did, he only drove to the right.
Our specialist (career 40%) 3-point shooter was 6'10" and lost his touch getting banged around in the paint, shooting only 31% from 3.
Our best available PG by assist/minutes played ratio was DeVonte (0.12 assists/minute played, and a 23.1 ast%) and he was a shooting guard, when he wasn't injured or suspended.
Our best PG (0.10 assists/minute played, and a 19.3 ast%) was a true freshman and had a head injury for 6 weeks during the heart of the B1G season. The words "concussion" and "court vision", don't go well together. Who knew?
Our best wing was out for the season with a mystery injury.
Our most available small forward 3-and-D wing shot 22% from 3-point range.
Our best utility player was injured all season and averaged 2.2 points/40 minutes all season.
Only 8 players appeared in at least 30 of our 35 games, and 6 of them had to play at least 27 minutes a game. "Exhausted" was a correct adjective for this team. We lost 5 straight B1G games in one 2 week period (Jan 11th-25th) and no surprise, lost another 5 straight B1G games in a later 2 week period (Feb 7th-22nd).
Of the 6 that played the most minutes? 4 were underclassmen. Only one junior and one senior were among the top 6 in minutes played. What would we expect of any group of underclassmen who start 12-2 and then go 1-12 in the next 13? They did recover to win their last 4 in the B1G season.
Here's the second-worst stat. We were 329th in free throw % made. 329th. Presbyterian finished 100th at 72.8%. If we had just done that badly, we would have scored 50 more points over the season and 19 more points in the B1G season. (We lost 5 B1G games by 5 points or less.)
Here's the worst stat. We gave 647 minutes, or 9.2% of all minutes, to players who scored 6.1 points/40 minutes or less. So for 10% of every game, we were playing 4 on 5 basketball.

The players were injured and tired, so they couldn't shoot. They were mostly playing out of position. They had no depth. They were under-manned.
Even with all those issues, this team still won 19 games and finished 8th in the B1G.

Contrast that to our current healthy team, with 6 guys having spent at least 2 full seasons on D1 teams, with a defense that has gone from the 90s, to the 60s, to the 30s, in the past 3 seasons, with 5 bigs playing inside, a healthy top-50 wing, a healthy top-50 point guard, and 3 guards who will hit, when healthy, 40+% of their 3s,
and we're still picked to finish 9th-11th in a B1G that is substantially weaker than last season? I don't agree."

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

This helps explain last year, (per inside the hall, Brendon Armitage)

"I'm struggling to see why this team and coach have so many detractors. Last year's team finished 8th. Let's describe Archie's team from last year, shall we?
Our most available center was only 6'8" if you counted his hair.
Our best center only played 12 minutes/game.
Our "shooting guard" had a torn thumb ligament on his shooting hand, leaving him shooting 27% from 3, which meant he could only drive. When he did, he only drove to the right.
Our specialist (career 40%) 3-point shooter was 6'10" and lost his touch getting banged around in the paint, shooting only 31% from 3.
Our best available PG by assist/minutes played ratio was DeVonte (0.12 assists/minute played, and a 23.1 ast%) and he was a shooting guard, when he wasn't injured or suspended.
Our best PG (0.10 assists/minute played, and a 19.3 ast%) was a true freshman and had a head injury for 6 weeks during the heart of the B1G season. The words "concussion" and "court vision", don't go well together. Who knew?
Our best wing was out for the season with a mystery injury.
Our most available small forward 3-and-D wing shot 22% from 3-point range.
Our best utility player was injured all season and averaged 2.2 points/40 minutes all season.
Only 8 players appeared in at least 30 of our 35 games, and 6 of them had to play at least 27 minutes a game. "Exhausted" was a correct adjective for this team. We lost 5 straight B1G games in one 2 week period (Jan 11th-25th) and no surprise, lost another 5 straight B1G games in a later 2 week period (Feb 7th-22nd).
Of the 6 that played the most minutes? 4 were underclassmen. Only one junior and one senior were among the top 6 in minutes played. What would we expect of any group of underclassmen who start 12-2 and then go 1-12 in the next 13? They did recover to win their last 4 in the B1G season.
Here's the second-worst stat. We were 329th in free throw % made. 329th. Presbyterian finished 100th at 72.8%. If we had just done that badly, we would have scored 50 more points over the season and 19 more points in the B1G season. (We lost 5 B1G games by 5 points or less.)
Here's the worst stat. We gave 647 minutes, or 9.2% of all minutes, to players who scored 6.1 points/40 minutes or less. So for 10% of every game, we were playing 4 on 5 basketball.

The players were injured and tired, so they couldn't shoot. They were mostly playing out of position. They had no depth. They were under-manned.
Even with all those issues, this team still won 19 games and finished 8th in the B1G.

Contrast that to our current healthy team, with 6 guys having spent at least 2 full seasons on D1 teams, with a defense that has gone from the 90s, to the 60s, to the 30s, in the past 3 seasons, with 5 bigs playing inside, a healthy top-50 wing, a healthy top-50 point guard, and 3 guards who will hit, when healthy, 40+% of their 3s,
and we're still picked to finish 9th-11th in a B1G that is substantially weaker than last season? I don't agree."

Makes too much sense.

The words "concussion" and "court vision", don't go well together. Who knew?

I can tell you who didn’t know - @fpeaugh. To him concussions don’t impact the players ability to play.

 

[arcb102000]

Says a PU fan who has never won a NCAA Tournament. Justify mediocrity. PU always good but never great.

I looked up the definition of "mediocre", the source word for mediocrity. It is printed below.

me·di·o·cre
/ˌmēdēˈōkər/
Learn to pronounce
adjective

1. of only moderate quality; not very good.
   "a mediocre actor"

As you can see your post misuses the word. Something cannot be "...always good..." and mediocre simultaneously. That is a logical contradiction.

I noted the error in the post and then remembered the source so it was not surprising.

 

[snarlcakes]

This helps explain last year, (per inside the hall, Brendon Armitage)

"I'm struggling to see why this team and coach have so many detractors. Last year's team finished 8th. Let's describe Archie's team from last year, shall we?
Our most available center was only 6'8" if you counted his hair.
Our best center only played 12 minutes/game.
Our "shooting guard" had a torn thumb ligament on his shooting hand, leaving him shooting 27% from 3, which meant he could only drive. When he did, he only drove to the right.
Our specialist (career 40%) 3-point shooter was 6'10" and lost his touch getting banged around in the paint, shooting only 31% from 3.
Our best available PG by assist/minutes played ratio was DeVonte (0.12 assists/minute played, and a 23.1 ast%) and he was a shooting guard, when he wasn't injured or suspended.
Our best PG (0.10 assists/minute played, and a 19.3 ast%) was a true freshman and had a head injury for 6 weeks during the heart of the B1G season. The words "concussion" and "court vision", don't go well together. Who knew?
Our best wing was out for the season with a mystery injury.
Our most available small forward 3-and-D wing shot 22% from 3-point range.
Our best utility player was injured all season and averaged 2.2 points/40 minutes all season.
Only 8 players appeared in at least 30 of our 35 games, and 6 of them had to play at least 27 minutes a game. "Exhausted" was a correct adjective for this team. We lost 5 straight B1G games in one 2 week period (Jan 11th-25th) and no surprise, lost another 5 straight B1G games in a later 2 week period (Feb 7th-22nd).
Of the 6 that played the most minutes? 4 were underclassmen. Only one junior and one senior were among the top 6 in minutes played. What would we expect of any group of underclassmen who start 12-2 and then go 1-12 in the next 13? They did recover to win their last 4 in the B1G season.
Here's the second-worst stat. We were 329th in free throw % made. 329th. Presbyterian finished 100th at 72.8%. If we had just done that badly, we would have scored 50 more points over the season and 19 more points in the B1G season. (We lost 5 B1G games by 5 points or less.)
Here's the worst stat. We gave 647 minutes, or 9.2% of all minutes, to players who scored 6.1 points/40 minutes or less. So for 10% of every game, we were playing 4 on 5 basketball.

The players were injured and tired, so they couldn't shoot. They were mostly playing out of position. They had no depth. They were under-manned.
Even with all those issues, this team still won 19 games and finished 8th in the B1G.

Contrast that to our current healthy team, with 6 guys having spent at least 2 full seasons on D1 teams, with a defense that has gone from the 90s, to the 60s, to the 30s, in the past 3 seasons, with 5 bigs playing inside, a healthy top-50 wing, a healthy top-50 point guard, and 3 guards who will hit, when healthy, 40+% of their 3s,
and we're still picked to finish 9th-11th in a B1G that is substantially weaker than last season? I don't agree."

I’m looking forward to Brendon’s laundry list of excuses after the 2019-20 season.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I’m looking forward to Brendon’s laundry list of excuses after the 2019-20 season.

If we have another year like last season (which I’ll be very surprised if we do), I’ll gladly admit I was wrong about Archie.

But if we go back to the NCAA tournament will you likewise admit maybe Archie isn’t such a bad coach after all? (I know @fpeaugh won’t).

 

[snarlcakes]

If we have another year like last season (which I’ll be very surprised if we do), I’ll gladly admit I was wrong about Archie.

But if we go back to the NCAA tournament will you likewise admit maybe Archie isn’t such a bad coach after all? (I know @fpeaugh won’t).

If we are a top 25 team, I will feel better about Archie. I think our roster is good enough to win 23-25 games (assuming the schedule is as weak as it looks to be). To answer your question, I don't think he is a terrible coach, now. I just think he isn't an elite coach.

 

[snarlcakes]

This helps explain last year, (per inside the hall, Brendon Armitage)

"I'm struggling to see why this team and coach have so many detractors. Last year's team finished 8th. Let's describe Archie's team from last year, shall we?
Our most available center was only 6'8" if you counted his hair.
Our best center only played 12 minutes/game.
Our "shooting guard" had a torn thumb ligament on his shooting hand, leaving him shooting 27% from 3, which meant he could only drive. When he did, he only drove to the right.
Our specialist (career 40%) 3-point shooter was 6'10" and lost his touch getting banged around in the paint, shooting only 31% from 3.
Our best available PG by assist/minutes played ratio was DeVonte (0.12 assists/minute played, and a 23.1 ast%) and he was a shooting guard, when he wasn't injured or suspended.
Our best PG (0.10 assists/minute played, and a 19.3 ast%) was a true freshman and had a head injury for 6 weeks during the heart of the B1G season. The words "concussion" and "court vision", don't go well together. Who knew?
Our best wing was out for the season with a mystery injury.
Our most available small forward 3-and-D wing shot 22% from 3-point range.
Our best utility player was injured all season and averaged 2.2 points/40 minutes all season.
Only 8 players appeared in at least 30 of our 35 games, and 6 of them had to play at least 27 minutes a game. "Exhausted" was a correct adjective for this team. We lost 5 straight B1G games in one 2 week period (Jan 11th-25th) and no surprise, lost another 5 straight B1G games in a later 2 week period (Feb 7th-22nd).
Of the 6 that played the most minutes? 4 were underclassmen. Only one junior and one senior were among the top 6 in minutes played. What would we expect of any group of underclassmen who start 12-2 and then go 1-12 in the next 13? They did recover to win their last 4 in the B1G season.
Here's the second-worst stat. We were 329th in free throw % made. 329th. Presbyterian finished 100th at 72.8%. If we had just done that badly, we would have scored 50 more points over the season and 19 more points in the B1G season. (We lost 5 B1G games by 5 points or less.)
Here's the worst stat. We gave 647 minutes, or 9.2% of all minutes, to players who scored 6.1 points/40 minutes or less. So for 10% of every game, we were playing 4 on 5 basketball.

The players were injured and tired, so they couldn't shoot. They were mostly playing out of position. They had no depth. They were under-manned.
Even with all those issues, this team still won 19 games and finished 8th in the B1G.

Contrast that to our current healthy team, with 6 guys having spent at least 2 full seasons on D1 teams, with a defense that has gone from the 90s, to the 60s, to the 30s, in the past 3 seasons, with 5 bigs playing inside, a healthy top-50 wing, a healthy top-50 point guard, and 3 guards who will hit, when healthy, 40+% of their 3s,
and we're still picked to finish 9th-11th in a B1G that is substantially weaker than last season? I don't agree."

I will give Brendan credit. I went back and read his post and he predicts IU will finish at least top 4 in the Big Ten this year. If you believe what he wrote and think Archie is a really good coach, there isn’t any excuse for IU not finishing in the Top 4.

 

[fpeaugh]

If we have another year like last season (which I’ll be very surprised if we do), I’ll gladly admit I was wrong about Archie.

But if we go back to the NCAA tournament will you likewise admit maybe Archie isn’t such a bad coach after all? (I know @fpeaugh won’t).

Go back to the NCAA Tournament? That’s your definition of success? Sad.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Go back to the NCAA Tournament? That’s your definition of success? Sad.

Didn’t say it was.

I - unlike you - understand what it takes to get there.

 

[hondo314]

Go back to the NCAA Tournament? That’s your definition of success? Sad.

no one said that. just shut the f up, douche.

PS sorry IU football won yesterday. must have been an especially lonely night in the fpeaugh household -- i.e. we hope you didn't kick the dog you are holding captive.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

We have 3 players who are all in the 100-150 range. Those aren’t difference makers.

Howard doesn’t have anyone as good as Morgan. And his 2nd player is no Robert Johnson. He might have more depth but he doesn’t have a better team. No way.

It’s like fingernails on a chalkboard when you use “we” in a post about IU. I don’t know what you really think you are, but you are NOT an IU fan.

 

[fpeaugh]

Didn’t say it was.

I - unlike you - understand what it takes to get there.

Then why do you want to praise him if he finally makes it in the top 68 teams? That’s something a lower end Missouri Valley team celebrates.

 

[fpeaugh]

no one said that. just shut the f up, douche.

PS sorry IU football won yesterday. must have been an especially lonely night in the fpeaugh household -- i.e. we hope you didn't kick the dog you are holding captive.

That’s exactly what he said. As if Archie will be proven and crowned if he somehow finishes in the top 68 for once.

 

[fpeaugh]

It’s like fingernails on a chalkboard when you use “we” in a post about IU. I don’t know what you really think you are, but you are NOT an IU fan.

I absolutely am. I just have higher standards than you.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I absolutely am. I just have higher standards than you.

Condolences on your loss and IU's win, a nasty twofer. Tough day in the hog pen I know.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Then why do you want to praise him if he finally makes it in the top 68 teams? That’s something a lower end Missouri Valley team celebrates.

You have - repeatedly - said the current state of the program (and I quote) a “dumpster fire”. Remember?

So IF we indeed do make the tournament wouldn’t that indicate Archie isn’t as bad a coach as you think he is? Again, I know that doesn’t jive with your narrative, but it would certainly dispel the “dumpster” myth you try to convince everyone on.

 

[fpeaugh]

You have - repeatedly - said the current state of the program (and I quote) a “dumpster fire”. Remember?

So IF we indeed do make the tournament wouldn’t that indicate Archie isn’t as bad a coach as you think he is? Again, I know that doesn’t jive with your narrative, but it would certainly dispel the “dumpster” myth you try to convince everyone on.

Making the tournament should never be an accomplishment at IU. Never. That’s just a bare minimum expectation.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Making the tournament should never be an accomplishment at IU. Never. That’s just a bare minimum expectation.

But how could we make the tournament if we’re a “dumpster fire”?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I absolutely am. I just have higher standards than you.

Not a chance. You can’t trash IU constantly and be an IU fan. No one is buying your act.

 

[hondo314]

That’s exactly what he said. As if Archie will be proven and crowned if he somehow finishes in the top 68 for once.

Yawn

 

[hondo314]

Making the tournament should never be an accomplishment at IU. Never. That’s just a bare minimum expectation.

It should when you follow a guy who couldn’t build a program over 9 years that was a tourney regular. But we get you are willfully ignorant.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

That’s exactly what he said. As if Archie will be proven and crowned if he somehow finishes in the top 68 for once.

No, it isn’t.

Snarlcakes said this:

I’m looking forward to Brendon’s laundry list of excuses after the 2019-20 season.

Clearly gave the impression he didn’t think IU will do well this coming season.

I replied:

If we have another year like last season (which I’ll be very surprised if we do), I’ll gladly admit I was wrong about Archie.

But if we go back to the NCAA tournament will you likewise admit maybe Archie isn’t such a bad coach after all? (I know @fpeaugh won’t).

That’s not saying Archie will have ”arrived”. It’s not saying he the second coming of Coach K. It’s simply saying (if that occurs) he’s not as bad a coach as some of you make him out to be.

Asked you this earlier without reply - if IU is such a dumpster fire under Miller just how could we even possibly make the NCAA tournament?

 

[fpeaugh]

It should when you follow a guy who couldn’t build a program over 9 years that was a tourney regular. But we get you are willfully ignorant.

Being better than Crean should not be the goal.

And Crean is head and shoulders above Archie. Completely different class.

 

[fpeaugh]

But how could we make the tournament if we’re a “dumpster fire”?

We sure haven’t made it have we?

 

[hondo314]

Being better than Crean should not be the goal.

And Crean is head and shoulders above Archie. Completely different class.

So you thought the next coach could just flip a switch? You’re old but clearly of the current times. A post-truther with zero concept of process...

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

We sure haven’t made it have we?

Answer the question.

 

[fpeaugh]

Answer the question.

Barely making the tournament and getting bounced early is not an accomplishment for IU.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Barely making the tournament and getting bounced early is not an accomplishment for IU.

No one said it was.

You have stated - numerous times - IU under Archie is a “dumpster fire”. IF that is true and Archie takes a dumpster fire to the NCAA tournament, then Miller isn’t as bad a coach as you make him out to be, is he?