Rank the B1G Coaches

[mathboy]

Archie took "Dayton" as far as Matt Painter has taken Purdue in his 15 year career at PU and over his entire coaching career.

I guess we all use measures that support our beliefs. For me, a single NCAA run is a weak measure of a coach’s sustained success. Kind of “even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while” type of event. The tourney is such a random mix of who is hot, match ups, and weird one-off situations, that almost any unlikely team can progress beyond their true capability once.

I tend to look for sustained success. Is the team regularly in the sweet sixteen?

 

[ufo33]

I guess we all use measures that support our beliefs. For me, a single NCAA run is a weak measure of a coach’s sustained success. Kind of “even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while” type of event. The tourney is such a random mix of who is hot, match ups, and weird one-off situations, that almost any unlikely team can progress beyond their true capability once.

I tend to look for sustained success. Is the team regularly in the sweet sixteen?

Painter has sustained mediocrity followed by a good but not great season. Archie achieved the same maximum success in 4 years at Dayton than Painter has in 15 years at Purdue and over his entire coaching career. Good but never great is not that impressive if Painter was at a top tier basketball school that has won multiple National Championships, but at Purdue it is impressive. Archie at Dayton was very impressive of what he was able to do at a mid-major.

 

[IU? I'm Fine]

I guess we all use measures that support our beliefs. For me, a single NCAA run is a weak measure of a coach’s sustained success. Kind of “even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while” type of event. The tourney is such a random mix of who is hot, match ups, and weird one-off situations, that almost any unlikely team can progress beyond their true capability once.

I tend to look for sustained success. Is the team regularly in the sweet sixteen?

By only looking for sustained success and/or regularly in the sweet sixteen one discounts non-power 5 conferences and coaches that are within, say, 6 years of taking a head coaching job.

According to TOS "Miller's abilities as an offensive coach have probably been understated. In five of his six years at Dayton, his teams posted an adjusted offensive efficiency inside the top 75 nationally..." But these numbers also may be misrepresenting CAM's abilities both pro and con. In Dayton he may not have been able to attract the level of recruits that he may get at IU. Also in-conference competition may not be up to that of the B1G. In 4 of 5 seasons, Dayton was in the top 53 in adjusted offensive efficiency...very impressive to me.

Plus, Dayton teams got to the foul line...in the top 75 nationally in his last 3 seasons (FTA/FGA). In 2 of those years Dayton was in the top 10 nationally...showing me that Miller had an attack inside focus. We will see if that works as well in the B1G. Full disclosure shows that they didn't rebound well in his last 3 years...maybe because of his focus on getting back on defense.

They also had a relatively high assist percentage and ranked in the top 30 for 2 years. They were rather efficient on offense.

Of course on defense they were ranked in the top 41 in CAM's last 3 years.

Lots of the comparisons, one can state, really don't lend themselves to statistical comparisons. So rating one coach over another without a long view really becomes extremely subjective.

On that note...I'd much rather have CAM than whatever that Ag/Tech school up north has. Or even Izzo...

 

[fpeaugh]

Calipari and Donovan are not former NBA players.

Penny can recruit but has yet to show he can actually coach.

Beilein to Howard was a gift for the Big Ten.

Donovan isn’t? You must be very young kid.

 

[tkejones]

I guess we all use measures that support our beliefs. For me, a single NCAA run is a weak measure of a coach’s sustained success. Kind of “even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while” type of event. The tourney is such a random mix of who is hot, match ups, and weird one-off situations, that almost any unlikely team can progress beyond their true capability once.

I tend to look for sustained success. Is the team regularly in the sweet sixteen?

Painter has sustained mediocrity followed by a good but not great season. Archie achieved the same maximum success in 4 years at Dayton than Painter has in 15 years at Purdue and over his entire coaching career. Good but never great is not that impressive if Painter was at a top tier basketball school that has won multiple National Championships, but at Purdue it is impressive. Archie at Dayton was very impressive of what he was able to do at a mid-major.

As referenced in a prior post, part of that may be due to shoe companies pushing elite talent to particular schools. How many schools have the sustained mediocrity of making the past four sweet 16s? Is it really mediocrity if very few have achieved it??

 

[ufo33]

As referenced in a prior post, part of that may be due to shoe companies pushing elite talent to particular schools. How many schools have the sustained mediocrity of making the past four sweet 16s? Is it really mediocrity if very few have achieved it??

Congrats.
It's just Purdue.
Never won.
Never will.

 

[HoosierJimbo89]

I guess we all use measures that support our beliefs. For me, a single NCAA run is a weak measure of a coach’s sustained success. Kind of “even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while” type of event. The tourney is such a random mix of who is hot, match ups, and weird one-off situations, that almost any unlikely team can progress beyond their true capability once.

I tend to look for sustained success. Is the team regularly in the sweet sixteen?

Sounds like blind squirrels have found more success than Gene Keady and Matt Painter.....

 

[Harry Hondo]

He wants us to make Painter #1 or #2.


He’s good but can he make it to the 3rd weekend!

I know, but honestly he just might be #1 or #2. He's found his grove and probably does more with less than any other coach in the B1G. Of course it took a 40 plus game from his star player for PU to almost make the FF. It'll be interesting this coming season to see what they do without the reliance of a superstar player. They have some good pieces, but lost a couple of their leaders.

 

[ufo33]

I know, but honestly he just might be #1 or #2. He's found his grove and probably does more with less than any other coach in the B1G. Of course it took a 40 plus game from his star player for PU to almost make the FF. It'll be interesting this coming season to see what they do without the reliance of a superstar player. They have some good pieces, but lost a couple of their leaders.

And STILL did not make the Final Four.

 

[jimmygoiu]

What an unimpressive list of coaches.

I expect Hoiberg and Howard to leapfrog up the rankings very quickly.

It’s tough knowing Holtmann was right in our backyard and we let him get away. We could be having their success right now. Very disappointing.

You were "all in" on Archie when he was hired. so sad to be you......

 

[fpeaugh]

Howard? Lol. Those NBA guys always suck man.

Calipari and Donovan are not former NBA players.

Penny can recruit but has yet to show he can actually coach.

Beilein to Howard was a gift for the Big Ten.

Ouch. Could you have been more wrong?

 

[TR32]

Ouch. Could you have been more wrong?

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Chances are they will be worse under Howard than they were under Beilein.

 

[minneman]

Ouch. Could you have been more wrong?

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So if just just landing a top 10 recruit is all it takes to makes you a great coach, then Miller is a great coach. Howard is less proven than Miller.

You remind me of a terrible boss I used to have. To him, everyone outside of the company was an "expert" while those that worked there weren't. We'd have engineers quit or be fired and then be brought back a few weeks later as a contractor and would suddenly be an "expert".

You're the same way - every coach is great except the one at IU. What makes another coach "great" in your eyes doesn't apply to Miller. What is bad about Miller doesn't count of its the same for other coaches. You're nothing if not inconsistent on your criteria for being a great coach.

For the record, I'm not saying Miller has been great and not guaranteeing he will be. Nearly pointing out that you seem to be saying that Howard will be great based purely on landing a single top 10 recruit. Miller has landed a top 5 recruit.

 

[ufo33]

I guess we all use measures that support our beliefs. For me, a single NCAA run is a weak measure of a coach’s sustained success. Kind of “even a blind squirrel finds a nut every once in a while” type of event. The tourney is such a random mix of who is hot, match ups, and weird one-off situations, that almost any unlikely team can progress beyond their true capability once.

I tend to look for sustained success. Is the team regularly in the sweet sixteen?

Says a PU fan who has never won a NCAA Tournament. Justify mediocrity. PU always good but never great.

 

[ufo33]

Chances are they will be worse under Howard than they were under Beilein.

Howard is nowhere close to Beilein.

 

[TommyCracker]

Ouch. Could you have been more wrong?

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I thought you were the big, recruiting insider?

Here's a scoop for you...those 'in the know' say Todd has a lot in common with Josh Smith in regards to him actually playing college ball.

It is good optics though, for sure, but Todd will never suit up.

 

[fkfootball]

I don’t care who they hire. Losing John Beilein was a gift to all Big Ten teams. Greenspan/Herbert are absolute tools for hiring Sampson over Beilein. Even without the cheating at Oklahoma, I still preferred Beilein to Sampson, because I loved his 3 pt shooting West Virginia teams. I felt he was a good fit for IU. Dammit!

 

[fkfootball]

Ouch. Could you have been more wrong?

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Ok. TwinDegrees2.

 

[Cavanagh.6]

I don’t care who they hire. Losing John Beilein was a gift to all Big Ten teams. Greenspan/Herbert are absolute tools for hiring Sampson over Beilein. Even without the cheating at Oklahoma, I still preferred Beilein to Sampson, because I loved his 3 pt shooting West Virginia teams. I felt he was a good fit for IU. Dammit!

If IU didn’t fire Sampson I think it would be a very real debate on who would have had more success. I would argue for Sampson. I think he would have been the bill self of the Midwest.

Now of course the high horse folks at Indiana think Bill self is a no good cheater. I don’t care about paying players (as most of America and they will get paid soon) I care about winning.

 

[OhioBoiler51]

Says a PU fan who has never won a NCAA Tournament. Justify mediocrity. PU always good but never great.

Lol at you responding to a post from 2 months ago that you already responded to basically saying the same thing.

Got to admire the blind optimism of all things IU and blind hatred of all things Purdue from you though. Need fans like that to keep any rivalry going strong.

 

[jimmygoiu]

I don’t care who they hire. Losing John Beilein was a gift to all Big Ten teams. Greenspan/Herbert are absolute tools for hiring Sampson over Beilein. Even without the cheating at Oklahoma, I still preferred Beilein to Sampson, because I loved his 3 pt shooting West Virginia teams. I felt he was a good fit for IU. Dammit!

Did Beilein want an IU offer? If so, I resent Herbert even more for his mandatory minority hiring. The Sampson hiring was a disaster for IU basketball. I remain confident that Archie rights the ship...

 

[jimmygoiu]

Lol at you responding to a post from 2 months ago that you already responded to basically saying the same thing.

Got to admire the blind optimism of all things IU and blind hatred of all things Purdue from you though. Need fans like that to keep any rivalry going strong.

Yes,but it is so easy to make fun of all things broilee. broilee posters are so insecure and make easy targets of ridicule...

 

[fpeaugh]

Ok. TwinDegrees2.

Talk about egg on face. Ouch.

 

[fpeaugh]

I thought you were the big, recruiting insider?

Here's a scoop for you...those 'in the know' say Todd has a lot in common with Josh Smith in regards to him actually playing college ball.

It is good optics though, for sure, but Todd will never suit up.

I don’t know anything about him. Where’s he going to play for a year?

 

[fpeaugh]

So if just just landing a top 10 recruit is all it takes to makes you a great coach, then Miller is a great coach. Howard is less proven than Miller.

You remind me of a terrible boss I used to have. To him, everyone outside of the company was an "expert" while those that worked there weren't. We'd have engineers quit or be fired and then be brought back a few weeks later as a contractor and would suddenly be an "expert".

You're the same way - every coach is great except the one at IU. What makes another coach "great" in your eyes doesn't apply to Miller. What is bad about Miller doesn't count of its the same for other coaches. You're nothing if not inconsistent on your criteria for being a great coach.

For the record, I'm not saying Miller has been great and not guaranteeing he will be. Nearly pointing out that you seem to be saying that Howard will be great based purely on landing a single top 10 recruit. Miller has landed a top 5 recruit.

You’re right we don’t know if Howard is good or not. We just know Archie is not. So worst case Howard is a bust and equal to Archie. Best case is he could be a force for a long time in the Big Ten.

 

[Cavanagh.6]

You’re right we don’t know if Howard is good or not. We just know Archie is not. So worst case Howard is a bust and equal to Archie. Best case is he could be a force for a long time in the Big Ten.

You need one more year for your narrative. You very well could be right, but year one was fine and actually exceeded my expectations a bit as they played well down the end. Last year was a dumpster fire, if we don’t make the tourney this year, you can pump the Archie is a bust stuff till your hearts content. Need one more year to see tho.

 

[snarlcakes]

You need one more year for your narrative. You very well could be right, but year one was fine and actually exceeded my expectations a bit as they played well down the end. Last year was a dumpster fire, if we don’t make the tourney this year, you can pump the Archie is a bust stuff till your hearts content. Need one more year to see tho.

You also think Romeo is a cancer and the reason why we stunk last year. I doubt you will ever "see" anything. Also, Archie's first year wasn't that good either.

 

[Cavanagh.6]

You also think Romeo is a cancer and the reason why we stunk last year. I doubt you will ever "see" anything. Also, Archie's first year wasn't that good either.

Mcswain actually looked like some what of a basketball player at the end of the year. That exceeds expectations within itself.

He was a cancer. In a pure basketball sense he hurt the team in every way possible. Not being a leader, shooting the three more than anyone yet being the worst at it in IU history, no motor. Couple that with Archie letting him stand in the corner and not try on multiple possessions in every single game, you miss the tourney.

Replace “cancer” with made us miss the tournament if you want.

 

[TommyCracker]

I don’t know anything about him. Where’s he going to play for a year?

The gooroos are saying that he's publicly stated he's going overseas for a year.

Howard, like Penny, will catch some fish though here in the early going regardless which I welcome. Dilute the pool.

 

[JIMSHAM]

If IU didn’t fire Sampson I think it would be a very real debate on who would have had more success. I would argue for Sampson. I think he would have been the bill self of the Midwest.

Now of course the high horse folks at Indiana think Bill self is a no good cheater. I don’t care about paying players (as most of America and they will get paid soon) I care about winning.

I and most alums love winning but integrity remains important.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Donovan isn’t? You must be very young kid.

You call making a roster in the NBA for 44 games because your former college coach is the coach of a team makes Donovan a “player”?

Then again, you were 100% sure Donovan was coming to IU, too . . .

 

[fpeaugh]

You call making a roster in the NBA for 44 games because your former college coach is the coach of a team makes Donovan a “player”?

Then again, you were 100% sure Donovan was coming to IU, too . . .

Did he play in the NBA or not?

 

[Cavanagh.6]

I and most alums love winning but integrity remains important.

The ncaa has no integrity. I see it the same as Indiana saying marijuana is illegal. It should be legal and people that think it is wrong are just blinded by the government saying it is wrong.

 

[fpeaugh]

You need one more year for your narrative. You very well could be right, but year one was fine and actually exceeded my expectations a bit as they played well down the end. Last year was a dumpster fire, if we don’t make the tourney this year, you can pump the Archie is a bust stuff till your hearts content. Need one more year to see tho.

Getting blown out by Indiana St and IPFW in the same year told the story. Last year was just confirmation. I don’t need to see any more.

 

[Cavanagh.6]

Getting blown out by Indiana St and IPFW in the same year told the story. Last year was just confirmation. I don’t need to see any more.

I was literally on the court for the Indiana st game. Those ****ers were hitting everything, and Rob Johnson and josh newkirk might be the most atrocious back court in IU history. We had no talent on that team, none. Juwan became an all big ten player that year, no1 saw that coming (except me when I said his freshmen year he would be as good as Perry Ellis as a senior). Came up short of Perry but was pretty damn good.

 

[hondo314]

Getting blown out by Indiana St and IPFW in the same year told the story. Last year was just confirmation. I don’t need to see any more.

Haha. That team that got blown out by Indiana St. and IFPW was the rotting husk of much more talented team that sucked the year before.

Again, you’d have cried the first few years of what became good careers for half the best coaches in college. Half. 50%. Or more. Let that sink into whatever soul you have left.

Just so weird that you like to poop in your own bed again and again and again.

 

[hondo314]

You’re right we don’t know if Howard is good or not. We just know Archie is not. So worst case Howard is a bust and equal to Archie. Best case is he could be a force for a long time in the Big Ten.

Too early to tell on Archie...lol

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Did he play in the NBA or not?

Making a roster because of connections to someone and being a player by virtue of your ability are two totally different things. Not surprising in the least your inability to discern this.

 

[HereYouGoIU]

Getting blown out by Indiana St and IPFW in the same year told the story. Last year was just confirmation. I don’t need to see any more.

Will you eat crow if Michigan loses to a putrid team this season? After one bad loss will you say Juwan is a POS coach? How many seasons of subpar play will it take for you to say Juwan is out of his league as a B1G coach?

what happens if IU beats UM this season? Validation that CAM is better than Juwan? Or blow it off saying Juwan is a new coach.

?

 

[fpeaugh]

Will you eat crow if Michigan loses to a putrid team this season? After one bad loss will you say Juwan is a POS coach? How many seasons of subpar play will it take for you to say Juwan is out of his league as a B1G coach?

what happens if IU beats UM this season? Validation that CAM is better than Juwan? Or blow it off saying Juwan is a new coach.

?

If he loses to two IPFW level opponents this year then follows it up by missing the tournament with two all conference players and 6 other four star recruits I’ll say he’s not qualified for the job. Especially if his recruiting class in year two is a four star and a three star with open scholarships out there. I’ll call it the dumpster fire that it is.