Post game Army- couple stats

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

I always look at the box score and see what makes me scratch my head.

1 we shoot 58% from the field and 82% from FT line for the game. and yet a most disappointing game.

2. Galloway 30 min played. 0 rebounds 0 steals 0 fouls. Considering how he usually plays, those are strange results.

It’s becoming obvious opposing teams love shooting 3s in the hall

 

[sglowrider]

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

View embedded media

Basically "Our superbowl is over". Back to losing by 25+ every game. With that said, he had them well prepared.

 

[sglowrider]

Basically "Our superbowl is over". Back to losing by 25+ every game. With that said, he had them well prepared.

He said their identity is that they are a 3-point shooting team. So was the previous team we played.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

He said their identity is that they are a 3-point shooting team. So was the previous team we played.

And people on this board want IU to be that. You aren’t winning many games chucking 30-35 threes. Look at Iowa. They do that and I bet they don’t win the B1G or an NCAA tournament game. These teams have to do that for a shot at winning.

 

[bsmitty08]

And people on this board want IU to be that. You aren’t winning many games chucking 30-35 threes. Look at Iowa. They do that and I bet they don’t win the B1G or an NCAA tournament game. These teams have to do that for a shot at winning.

Our problem is that it needs to be in the flow of the offense and it isn’t. A double team down on Ware should free up someone for a wide open look. Currently we are not good on the defensive end and we struggle taking care of the ball and scoring. We had good efficiency numbers but we don’t seem to get very many good looks. It’s a struggle

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Our problem is that it needs to be in the flow of the offense and it isn’t. A double team down on Ware should free up someone for a wide open look. Currently we are not good on the defensive end and we struggle taking care of the ball and scoring. We had good efficiency numbers but we don’t seem to get very many good looks. It’s a struggle

Oh no I agree with that and the passing out of the post isn’t good. I think it will come around. Ware is a good passer and so is Malik but Malik won’t pass it out. I’d say that gets addressed.

 

[Beorik]

Oh no I agree with that and the passing out of the post isn’t good. I think it will come around. Ware is a good passer and so is Malik but Malik won’t pass it out. I’d say that gets addressed.

I said the same thing last night. Several times the double came in the post and our big was unable to make the skip pass. I think that gets fixed.

Offensively we need to push the pace and move the ball. Too many possessions are starting with 8 seconds of getting everyone lined up before starting something. When you do that you just get 1-2 passes. That needs to be more like 3-5 passes so the defense is forced to work and rotate.

Defense imo has been mostly effort. Guys are not hustling and fighting through screens which is causing us to be out of position. The Cupps, X, Galloway lineup seems to be the only one right now that consistently gives good effort for any length of time. This should start to trickle down to their teammates though.

 

[bsmitty08]

I said the same thing last night. Several times the double came in the post and our big was unable to make the skip pass. I think that gets fixed.

Offensively we need to push the pace and move the ball. Too many possessions are starting with 8 seconds of getting everyone lined up before starting something. When you do that you just get 1-2 passes. That needs to be more like 3-5 passes so the defense is forced to work and rotate.

Defense imo has been mostly effort. Guys are not hustling and fighting through screens which is causing us to be out of position. The Cupps, X, Galloway lineup seems to be the only one right now that consistently gives good effort for any length of time. This should start to trickle down to their teammates though.

It’s because Renau,MM and Walker are not perimeter guys

 

[Beorik]

It’s because Renau,MM and Walker are not perimeter guys

You could say that…. But so many teams play 4 out now that defensively they absolutely need to be.

 

[kkott]

I said the same thing last night. Several times the double came in the post and our big was unable to make the skip pass. I think that gets fixed.

Offensively we need to push the pace and move the ball. Too many possessions are starting with 8 seconds of getting everyone lined up before starting something. When you do that you just get 1-2 passes. That needs to be more like 3-5 passes so the defense is forced to work and rotate.

Defense imo has been mostly effort. Guys are not hustling and fighting through screens which is causing us to be out of position. The Cupps, X, Galloway lineup seems to be the only one right now that consistently gives good effort for any length of time. This should start to trickle down to their teammates though.

The defense has been a huge sore spot to me. I don't like the constant switching, because I feel like it leaves our post players in uncomfortable spots for them defending 3s on the perimeter or dealing with screens up high. But, I assumed it was how CMW was coaching, but then Cupps rarely switches and constantly likes to fight through screens (and is a better perimeter defender because of it). I don't know what to say, other than we look lost on both ends right now.

 

[kkott]

I always look at the box score and see what makes me scratch my head.

1 we shoot 58% from the field and 82% from FT line for the game. and yet a most disappointing game.

2. Galloway 30 min played. 0 rebounds 0 steals 0 fouls. Considering how he usually plays, those are strange results.

It’s becoming obvious opposing teams love shooting 3s in the hall

how about, what: 43 shot for IU vs 61 for Army and of course 18 TOs which, along with poor defensive rebounding, accounts for that disparity. Scary to think about if we'd shot our "normal" 60% on FTs, or they'd shot a more normal 75%, we likely lose.

 

[Cavanagh]

Oh no I agree with that and the passing out of the post isn’t good. I think it will come around. Ware is a good passer and so is Malik but Malik won’t pass it out. I’d say that gets addressed.

Malik also missed Mack for a wide open dunk on the other side of the rim. I think that play malik wound up getting fouled and hit his 2 FTs. In that moment, and that game, letting Mack get a dunk would have been worth about 10 points. Need to get your stud going.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Malik also missed Mack for a wide open dunk on the other side of the rim. I think that play malik wound up getting fouled and hit his 2 FTs. In that moment, and that game, letting Mack get a dunk would have been worth about 10 points. Need to get your stud going.

It’s a matter of guys in totally new roles. Took TJD a long time to get there. The extra pass finally got us two nice buckets in the second half.

 

[Beorik]

The defense has been a huge sore spot to me. I don't like the constant switching, because I feel like it leaves our post players in uncomfortable spots for them defending 3s on the perimeter or dealing with screens up high. But, I assumed it was how CMW was coaching, but then Cupps rarely switches and constantly likes to fight through screens (and is a better perimeter defender because of it). I don't know what to say, other than we look lost on both ends right now.

Based on what Woody and X said in the post game I don’t think that’s how it is being coached. Sounded to me like both of them feel the same as you about wings and bigs being put in bad spots because on ball defenders are not fighting though screens.

 

[Cavanagh]

It’s a matter of guys in totally new roles. Took TJD a long time to get there. The extra pass finally got us two nice buckets in the second half.

Lot of potential on this team. Ware has overly impressed me, and Mack looks like a freshmen that is overwhelmed. If Mack figures it out (I’d bet he does 😬) this team is gonna be a problem for people.

Need Mack averaging 12+ a night with hopefully the majority of them being threes.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Lot of potential on this team. Ware has overly impressed me, and Mack looks like a freshmen that is overwhelmed. If Mack figures it out (I’d bet he does 😬) this team is gonna be a problem for people.

Need Mack averaging 12+ a night with hopefully the majority of them being threes.

Woody should play him like kopp first. Corner outlet and bump screener. Get him shooting 5-6 threes a game.

 

[kkott]

Lot of potential on this team. Ware has overly impressed me, and Mack looks like a freshmen that is overwhelmed. If Mack figures it out (I’d bet he does 😬) this team is gonna be a problem for people.

Need Mack averaging 12+ a night with hopefully the majority of them being threes.

Yeah, Ware has really been the brightest spot and we don't win either game without him. X had a good game yesterday for the most part too. But, yes, MM has been a head scratcher. Got to get more out of him and I think he's risking losing him on the present course. He needs to pull him out, coach him, and then get him back in to see if he's adjusting to what he's being asked to do.

 

[Cavanagh]

Yeah, Ware has really been the brightest spot and we don't win either game without him. X had a good game yesterday for the most part too. But, yes, MM has been a head scratcher. Got to get more out of him and I think he's risking losing him on the present course. He needs to pull him out, coach him, and then get him back in to see if he's adjusting to what he's being asked to do.

Ya he’s lost on D and that’s woodys #1. Offensively he needs plays ran for him.

 

[kkott]

Ya he’s lost on D and that’s woodys #1. Offensively he needs plays ran for him.

I saw a lot of lost on D, even when MM was on the bench. Agree on O, we've got to help him find some open looks. I think we barely scored in transition last night and I'd like to see us work to push the ball, with the athletes we have. CMW always says he wants to play faster but we don't seem to work at it.

 

[IU/NDFAN]

Lot of potential on this team. Ware has overly impressed me, and Mack looks like a freshmen that is overwhelmed. If Mack figures it out (I’d bet he does 😬) this team is gonna be a problem for people.

Need Mack averaging 12+ a night with hopefully the majority of them being threes.

How much $$ you drop last night?

 

[Cavanagh]

How much $$ you drop last night?

Nothin crazy. 275 to win $250. It’s weird the older I get and more money I make, my appetite to bet big has went down tremendously.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

how about, what: 43 shot for IU vs 61 for Army and of course 18 TOs which, along with poor defensive rebounding, accounts for that disparity. Scary to think about if we'd shot our "normal" 60% on FTs, or they'd shot a more normal 75%, we likely lose.

i saw the shot disparity, and it's strange, because they did not out-rebound us, and the turnovers weren't so one-sided to give them 18 more shots. Cannot figure that one out. But it's the second game (of two, so far) where, after watching the first 8-10 minutes of the game, I realized I wasn't even enjoying what I was watching. Just some fugly basketball in the first half.

 

[kkott]

i saw the shot disparity, and it's strange, because they did not out-rebound us, and the turnovers weren't so one-sided to give them 18 more shots. Cannot figure that one out. But it's the second game (of two, so far) where, after watching the first 8-10 minutes of the game, I realized I wasn't even enjoying what I was watching. Just some fugly basketball in the first half.

No, but combination of the TOs and giving up offensive rebounds. They had 11 offensive rebounds to our 5, and 12 TOs to our 18.

Yeah, there have been some bright spots (UNC, Xavier and PU last year), but most of watching the Hoosiers for the last 10+ years has been a slog. We're way past overdue for the season where we actually exceed expectations.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

And people on this board want IU to be that. You aren’t winning many games chucking 30-35 threes. Look at Iowa. They do that and I bet they don’t win the B1G or an NCAA tournament game. These teams have to do that for a shot at winning.

"People" want balanced scoring on offense....including a perimeter game. The "high percentage' of shooting we have is well inside the paint. Opponents are not very concerned about our perimeter on offense, and plan accordingly. That is a problem,..like it or not.

 

[Sobchak_Security]

And people on this board want IU to be that. You aren’t winning many games chucking 30-35 threes. Look at Iowa. They do that and I bet they don’t win the B1G or an NCAA tournament game. These teams have to do that for a shot at winning.

You keep running to this extreme of people wanting IU to shoot “30-35 3’sper game”. That isn’t accurate. We need to get more production from the 3-point line and not allow ourselves to be outscored by nearly 30 points per game. Why? We won’t be able to feast on weak frontcourts against good competition like we have against the early patsies.

Don’t even take my word for it. Listen to Fish in his interview Monday with Jim Coyle

 

[bsmitty08]

"People" want balanced scoring on offense....including a perimeter game. The "high percentage' of shooting we have is well inside the paint. Opponents are not very concerned about our perimeter on offense, and plan accordingly. That is a problem,..like it or not.

For our offense to work, we need our post guys to win one on one matchups and score the basketball. They do that and they will draw a double team. If they draw the double team, kick out for an open look from 3. The finding the open look from 3 and passing out of the double team has been our issue and why you haven’t seen much from the 3 point lane. Do we need a better perimeter game? 1000% but we also need better flow of our offense for that to occur.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

You keep running to this extreme of people wanting IU to shoot “30-35 3’sper game”. That isn’t accurate. We need to get more production from the 3-point line and not allow ourselves to be outscored by nearly 30 points per game. Why? We won’t be able to feast on weak frontcourts against good competition like we have against the early patsies.

Don’t even take my word for it. Listen to Fish in his interview Monday with Jim Coyle

lol.

 

[Harpo Marxist]

"We need to get more production from the 3-point line and not allow ourselves to be outscored by nearly 30 points per game. Why? We won’t be able to feast on weak frontcourts against good competition like we have against the early patsies." This is correct.....but it needs to be more than just the 3 point line...its perimeter shooting generally,...everything outside the paint.

 

[kkott]

For our offense to work, we need our post guys to win one on one matchups and score the basketball. They do that and they will draw a double team. If they draw the double team, kick out for an open look from 3. The finding the open look from 3 and passing out of the double team has been our issue and why you haven’t seen much from the 3 point lane. Do we need a better perimeter game? 1000% but we also need better flow of our offense for that to occur.

This. We're not going to magically become a perimeter oriented juggernaut. We need to manufacture good shot attempts and our "shooters" need to be ready, and step in and take them without hesitation. If we're getting good looks, we should take them, but I still think that probably only translates to 15-20 attempts in most cases. Making a good % is more important than getting to some target # of attempts.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

You keep running to this extreme of people wanting IU to shoot “30-35 3’sper game”. That isn’t accurate. We need to get more production from the 3-point line and not allow ourselves to be outscored by nearly 30 points per game. Why? We won’t be able to feast on weak frontcourts against good competition like we have against the early patsies.

Don’t even take my word for it. Listen to Fish in his interview Monday with Jim Coyle

You don’t take shots just to be taking them. You don’t get it. Efficiency over type of shot. We have capable shooters and if you notice(which you didn’t) the post guys aren’t passing it out. Once they do the team will be better. Offensively wise anyway.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

For our offense to work, we need our post guys to win one on one matchups and score the basketball. They do that and they will draw a double team. If they draw the double team, kick out for an open look from 3. The finding the open look from 3 and passing out of the double team has been our issue and why you haven’t seen much from the 3 point lane. Do we need a better perimeter game? 1000% but we also need better flow of our offense for that to occur.

Best post you’ve made. Malik is forcing it and not kicking out. Once he does it will help immensely.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

This. We're not going to magically become a perimeter oriented juggernaut. We need to manufacture good shot attempts and our "shooters" need to be ready, and step in and take them without hesitation. If we're getting good looks, we should take them, but I still think that probably only translates to 15-20 attempts in most cases. Making a good % is more important than getting to some target # of attempts.

I’d love to see 20 but it’s going to be less even when the bigs start giving it up.

 

[.Gerdis]

You don’t take shots just to be taking them. You don’t get it. Efficiency over type of shot. We have capable shooters and if you notice(which you didn’t) the post guys aren’t passing it out. Once they do the team will be better. Offensively wise anyway.

Hard to have great efficiency #s if you turn it over like we did versus Army.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Hard to have great efficiency #s if you turn it over like we did versus Army.

Not arguing that. Less than 10 turnovers and defense is really the biggest issues.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

No, but combination of the TOs and giving up offensive rebounds. They had 11 offensive rebounds to our 5, and 12 TOs to our 18.

Yeah, there have been some bright spots (UNC, Xavier and PU last year), but most of watching the Hoosiers for the last 10+ years has been a slog. We're way past overdue for the season where we actually exceed expectations.

ok those numbers make more sense. The box score linked to the scores on this site listed the o.rebounds at 7/5.
The last season where I thought we exceeded expectations...was gonna say Yogi's senior yr, but actually I think it was Cody's frosh/Watshot yr, simply because the program went from zero to sixty overnight. From doormat to S16. Too bad it didn't last.

And then when I think about that, I start doing the connect-the-dots game in my head...if we didn't get Cody, does CTC get canned and we have a real shot at (he who shall not be named).....and then I shut it all down and think about smallmouth bass fishing instead.

 

[gmhowes]

Hard to have great efficiency #s if you turn it over like we did versus Army.

We couldn't get the incredible weave going right.

 

[kkott]

ok those numbers make more sense. The box score linked to the scores on this site listed the o.rebounds at 7/5.
The last season where I thought we exceeded expectations...was gonna say Yogi's senior yr, but actually I think it was Cody's frosh/Watshot yr, simply because the program went from zero to sixty overnight. From doormat to S16. Too bad it didn't last.

And then when I think about that, I start doing the connect-the-dots game in my head...if we didn't get Cody, does CTC get canned and we have a real shot at (he who shall not be named).....and then I shut it all down and think about smallmouth bass fishing instead.

Agreed on the last time we exceeded expectations being '12.

 

[.Gerdis]

Agreed on the last time we exceeded expectations being '12.

And during that time expectations have been very low. You’d think we would have vastly exceeded them, at least a few times.

 

[T.M.P.]

Our problem is that it needs to be in the flow of the offense and it isn’t. A double team down on Ware should free up someone for a wide open look. Currently we are not good on the defensive end and we struggle taking care of the ball and scoring. We had good efficiency numbers but we don’t seem to get very many good looks. It’s a struggle

We did not have good efficiency numbers, the TOs are part of efficiency.