Politico reporting Trump is ending DACA

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Not true goat. Only felonies and "significant misdemeanors" make you ineligible. Criminal record isn't the limiting factor. Also, it's unclear to me if committing a felony/serious misdemeanor would get you deported immediately, or if it only prohibits you from applying for DACA renewal?

Anyhow this was a minor quibble, but on the surface 100% of 800k people seems improbable.

What I mean is, when people say 100% no criminal records, that's what they mean. I'm not defending the statement. I'm just explaining where they get it from. I agree it's a hell of a stretch, and misleading at best. I'm just saying, that's how they justify it.

 

[toastedbread]

What I mean is, when people say 100% no criminal records, that's what they mean. I'm not defending the statement. I'm just explaining where they get it from. I agree it's a hell of a stretch, and misleading at best. I'm just saying, that's how they justify it.

I think people hear it on TV, or wherever and it sounds nice, so they just run with it. (Talking pointish). I don't think Zeke was aware of the technical details. Neither was I until I read that post. When you see a statistic with 100% in it, it raises your eyebrows.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I think people hear it on TV, or wherever and it sounds nice, so they just run with it. (Talking pointish). I don't think Zeke was aware of the technical details. Neither was I until I read that post. When you see a statistic with 100% in it, it raises your eyebrows.

It should, at any rate, and I am not assuming that Zeke is massaging the facts. I'm assuming she got it from a source she trusts. But wherever it started, that person was playing a bit loose with the facts to make it work.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Yeah, I knew by definition you lose your status if you commit a crime. The 91%employed is pretty impressive too.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Not in this case. It's a trick of definition. A criminal record makes one ineligible for DACA status.

Not true goat. Only felonies and "significant misdemeanors" make you ineligible. Criminal record isn't the limiting factor. Also, it's unclear to me if committing a felony/serious misdemeanor would get you deported immediately, or if it only prohibits you from applying for DACA renewal?

Anyhow this was a minor quibble, but on the surface 100% of 800k people seems improbable.

The article I was reading made it sound like you just weren't eligible for program. But it also made it sound like any criminal activity. But it would make sense that a minor misdemeanor would not. Wonder how they differentiate?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

The article I was reading made it sound like you just weren't eligible for program. But it also made it sound like any criminal activity. But it would make sense that a minor misdemeanor would not. Wonder how they differentiate?

Usually, a misdemeanor is any crime that carries a maximum penalty of less than a year, and a felony is any other crime.

Edit: just to be extra clear, the line isn't what you are actually sentenced to, but what sentence is possible.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

This could be an opportunity for a genuine bipartisan response. Even though I think DACA was good policy, Congress was always going to need to step up and formalize it. If they actually do so within the six months, maybe Trump's action here will accidentally turn into something positive.

Accidentally? This is exactly what Trump has in mind. This is deliberate. Trump knows that only congress can and should fix this. Those who piss and moan about DACA and the poor people who were dragged across the border as kids ought to be yelling at Ryan, Pelosi, McConnell and Schumer--not Trump. This is brilliant, its about time that somebody puts pressure on on congress to act like a congress and to actually solve a policy issue instead of pontificating about it and passing the buck to the executive.

 

[toastedbread]

Yeah, I knew by definition you lose your status if you commit a crime. The 91%employed is pretty impressive too.

I don't want to burst your bubble Zeke, but that 91% # is practically meaningless. It comes from a single survey: https://cdn.americanprogress.org/co.../Wong-Et-Al-New-DACA-Survey-2017-Codebook.pdf

The methodology is really shoddy, and there is not even a MOE.

This is fairly eye opening:
"In order to recruit respondents outside of the networks of the partner organizations, Facebook ads were also used."

How many were provided by partners v facebook? The partners have an inherent bias.

I feel sorry for the dreamers, but it's important the facts are presented accurately and honestly.

 

[toastedbread]

Usually, a misdemeanor is any crime that carries a maximum penalty of less than a year, and a felony is any other crime.

Edit: just to be extra clear, the line isn't what you are actually sentenced to, but what sentence is possible.

Btw, technically even if you commit a felony you could still receive DACA. There is discretion.

 

[hoosboot]

Maybe I'm being unrealistic. This is personal for me.

Understood, but one has to ponder...why would it be hunky-dory for a majority of Republicans to pass it (necessary via the rules they are operating under), but would be "political suicide" for that same majority to vote with Democrats to override a threatened Presidential veto? It seems to me that the obvious answer is that it wouldn't be.

And without overwhelming GOP Congressional motivation to pass a DACA replacement, there is no leverage for the President.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

This is exactly what Trump has in mind. This is deliberate.

I wouldn't begin to guess what Trump actually has in mind. Kind of surprised you would.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Btw, technically even if you commit a felony you could still receive DACA. There is discretion.

Yeah, that stat was always going to be shady. Like you said, anytime someone says "100%"...

 

[toastedbread]

Yeah, that stat was always going to be shady. Like you said, anytime someone says "100%"...

Btw, apparently these #s are coming from the Center of American Progress and Neera Tanden. I had a very low opinion of her to begin with, but if these are the kind of "facts" and "research" they are presenting it's simply shocking, and wrong. It's almost as bad as "fake news". The facts are fake.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Btw, apparently these #s are coming from the Center of American Progress and Neera Tanden. I had a very low opinion of her to begin with, but if these are the kind of "facts" and "research" they are presenting it's simply shocking, and wrong. It's almost as bad as "fake news". The facts are fake.

They normally don't spread genuine fake news. They have a huge slant, of course, but they usually at least stick to facts. Maybe it was actually an honest mistake. That does still happen.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I wouldn't begin to guess what Trump actually has in mind. Kind of surprised you would.

This one is an easy call. Trump has been very critical of congressional leadership. Payback is a bitch. And there will be amnesty votes during an election year. A lot of congressional members will feel the squirm.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

This one is an easy call. Trump has been very critical of congressional leadership. Payback is a bitch. And there will be amnesty votes during an election year. A lot of congressional members will feel the squirm.

I hear what you're saying, but you're assuming Trump is a rational actor. I'm not willing to go that far at this moment.

 

[SuperHoosierFan]

Then what alternative steps do you support?

I'm not sold on a wall either, FTR. Not because I think it's a "symbol of hatred" (in fact, that's silly). I'm just not sure the cost/benefit works out for such a thing. But it may well for just finishing off the fencing we currently have in place.

That said, we need to start taking more about what we should do to secure the border. But, sadly, there hasn't been much political will to do that. And that's because I don't think you're right that most people are fine with it...not the ones who matter, anyway.

There is a huge vested interest in keeping the border porous. And don't kid yourself that there isn't. Just because the people who want to keep it that way don't often express that sentiment publicly doesn't mean they don't hold it.

Texas could certainly use a big wall, just not where you think. In fact, lots of gulf coastline could use a big ass wall.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I hear what you're saying, but you're assuming Trump is a rational actor. I'm not willing to go that far at this moment.

Trump is more rational than many of his critics. Many of his actual orders and deeds are pretty good. You are hung up on his tweets and speeches.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Accidentally? This is exactly what Trump has in mind. This is deliberate. .

You give the guy WAY too much credit.

The ONLY thing that motivates him is, "Mueller is getting ready to come down on me HARD and I need to pander to the only people who worship me and what they care about more than anything else is treating gays/immigrants like dog food."

It's why he banned transgenders out of the blue and lied the military supported it.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

This one is an easy call. Trump has been very critical of congressional leadership. .

He's "very critical" of everyone from the paperboy to the guy that shines his shoes to the leader of Germany.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Trump is more rational than many of his critics. Many of his actual orders and deeds are pretty good. You are hung up on his tweets and speeches.

LOL!!

Even his own people say he's a wacko that goes OFF on the slightest criticism and will scream for an entire day over a bad news story instead of taking care of business.

Oh, wait. They're all part of the "deep state"/establishment and are just trying to "bring him down", right?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

You are hung up on his tweets and speeches.

This has nothing to do with his tweets, although his speeches are an issue - as they should be.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

This has nothing to do with his tweets, although his speeches are an issue - as they should be.

Trump is "so rational", he fired Comey.....which gave us Mueller who is 1,000 times worse for him.

 

[sglowrider]

 

[zeke4ahs]

This one is an easy call. Trump has been very critical of congressional leadership. Payback is a bitch. And there will be amnesty votes during an election year. A lot of congressional members will feel the squirm.

Who hasn't Trump been very critical of? Sheriff? Actually he's very critical of anyon ethat isn't with him, lock, stock, and barrell. That's adorable you think Trump did something rational.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You give the guy WAY too much credit.

The ONLY thing that motivates him is, "Mueller is getting ready to come down on me HARD and I need to pander to the only people who worship me and what they care about more than anything else is treating gays/immigrants like dog food."

It's why he banned transgenders out of the blue and lied the military supported it.

He's "very critical" of everyone from the paperboy to the guy that shines his shoes to the leader of Germany.

LOL!!

Even his own people say he's a wacko that goes OFF on the slightest criticism and will scream for an entire day over a bad news story instead of taking care of business.

Oh, wait. They're all part of the "deep state"/establishment and are just trying to "bring him down", right?

Trump is "so rational", he fired Comey.....which gave us Mueller who is 1,000 times worse for him.

As I said, Trump's action and decisions are more rational than the criticism leveled at him. Your posts have all the quality of a tweet and show a significant level of irrational emotionalism about Trump. But I readily admit you are not the Lone Ranger here. You have lots and lots of company.

If you care to criticize an actual decision or policy, I'll be happy to engage you on a rational basis.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Who hasn't Trump been very critical of? Sheriff? Actually he's very critical of anyon ethat isn't with him, lock, stock, and barrell. That's adorable you think Trump did something rational.

Yeah, there is that. Trump has taken incivility in Oval Office to unprecedented levels. I don't defend that, but that crap isn't policy. It's all about emotions and feelings--his and yours.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

If you care to criticize an actual decision or policy, I'll be happy to engage you on a rational basis.

I did.

He fired Comey and made the situation far far far worse for him.

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Yeah, there is that. Trump has taken incivility in Oval Office to unprecedented levels. I don't defend that, but that crap isn't policy. It's all about emotions and feelings--his and yours.

And his craziness affects policy.

Look at his transgender ban. He did it to appease the bigots (because he needs them for the Mueller probe) and lied the generals told him to do it who say it's stupid and makes us less safe.

It was a knee-jerk reaction just like everything he does....no "deep thinking" at all like you claim.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Well, @crazed_hoosier2, it sure doesn't sound like Trump is going to take your advice, does it? Seems like he was backed into a corner and really wants Congress to bail him out by passing a bill.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Congress to bail him out by passing a bill.

????????

You have this bassackwards. DACA by executive action bails out congress. Congress sets immigration policy, not POTUS.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I did.

He fired Comey and made the situation far far far worse for him.

Comey described himself as a wuss. In addition to that, he was unprofessional and now appears to be dishonest. Trump called Comey a "showboat". Trump had that about right--Comey was in over his head.

Special counsel appointment is unfortunate when one considers there was no necessary predicate for appointing one. That is all part of the emotionalism people succumb to when TRUMP!

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

????????

You have this bassackwards. DACA by executive action bails out congress. Congress sets immigration policy, not POTUS.

A political corner. He felt obligated to end DACA, but didn't really want to. Hence the delay, decision to keep dreamers a low enforcement priority, and repeated entreaties to Congress to fix the problem. No sense of tying the fate of the dreamers to the wall or any other issue. It sounds very much like, if Congress can pass a bill, Trump will gladly sign it.

 

[RBB89]

Trump is more rational than many of his critics. Many of his actual orders and deeds are pretty good. You are hung up on his tweets and speeches.

Which of these orders and deeds are pretty good? Specifically. And why? Also, the president speaking like and tweeting like a petulant child is a pretty damn big deal. He's 71 years old.

 

[RBB89]

Comey described himself as a wuss. In addition to that, he was unprofessional and now appears to be dishonest. Trump called Comey a "showboat". Trump had that about right--Comey was in over his head.

Special counsel appointment is unfortunate when one considers there was no necessary predicate for appointing one. That is all part of the emotionalism people succumb to when TRUMP!

I cannot fathom why you are still defending this nonsense.

 

[RBB89]

 

[TheVegasHoosier]

Comey described himself as a wuss. In addition to that, he was unprofessional and now appears to be dishonest. Trump called Comey a "showboat". Trump had that about right--Comey was in over his head.

Special counsel appointment is unfortunate when one considers there was no necessary predicate for appointing one. That is all part of the emotionalism people succumb to when TRUMP!

(rolleyes)

Trump calling someone a showboat is like the Catholic Church ripping someone else for protecting kiddie rapists.

Trump flat-out admitted, more than once, the only reason he fired Comey was because of Russia.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Which of these orders and deeds are pretty good? Specifically. And why? Also, the president speaking like and tweeting like a petulant child is a pretty damn big deal. He's 71 years old.

I explained that a month or so ago. I'll add DACA to the list. Under our system, congress does that. They can't be let off the hook just cuz the issue is politically difficult.

I don't defend his tweets, but I will say I don't think they are a big deal--except for those who operate on emotions and feelings.. 10 years from now nobody will know what the tweets said nor will they have any effect on policy.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

A political corner. He felt obligated to end DACA, but didn't really want to. Hence the delay, decision to keep dreamers a low enforcement priority, and repeated entreaties to Congress to fix the problem. No sense of tying the fate of the dreamers to the wall or any other issue. It sounds very much like, if Congress can pass a bill, Trump will gladly sign it.

Why is there no sense in tying DACA to the wall? Trump's nothing if not a dealmaker. Never in his life has he given something without getting something in return. And I mean this in a political sense. He stands to lose nothing politically if DACA goes away. But that's not the case for everybody.

Again, why the 6 month timeframe? It makes perfect sense, if you think about it. I don't know that was intentional. But it was pretty damn shrewd if it was, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

It sounds very much like, if Congress can pass a bill, Trump will gladly sign it.

I agree. That is exactly how our system is supposed to work. POTUS can't usurp congress with an EO.