Players Brand Failures

BusdriverE

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Dec 16, 2018
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Everyone talks of players getting what they deserve but what if they fail? Just saw where PS announced his brand on a sweatshirt, but what if he doesn't recoup his original investment? Great he's got his own line, but am I or someone else going to fork out $20 or more for a kid who hasn't made a bucket for IU and has virtually no ties with IU prior to coming here? He leads the NCAA in scoring this year, leads IU to a ff4 appearance, ya, he's gonna cash in. He's the 2nd leading scoring for IU and a sub, no. Im sure someone is backing him with the upstart but I hope all these kids don't see it as an easy way to make money and then are saddled with debt when the leave school cuz they bet on themselves and owe people money when it doesn't pan out. Not picking on PS, just using him as an example
 
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Cavanagh.13

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Nov 6, 2019
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Everyone talks of players getting what they deserve but what if they fail? Just saw where PS announced his brand on a sweatshirt, but what if he doesn't recoup his original investment? Great he's got his own line, but am I or someone else going to fork out $20 or more for a kid who hasn't made a bucket for IU and has virtually no ties with IU prior to coming here? He leads the NCAA in scoring this year, leads IU to a ff4 appearance, ya, he's gonna cash in. He's the 2nd leading scoring for IU and a sub, no. Im sure someone is backing him with the upstart but I hope all these kids don't see it as an easy way to make money and then are saddled with debt when the leave school cuz they bet on themselves and owe people money when it doesn't pan out. Not picking on PS, just using him as an example

If a basketball player goes into debt because of NIL at IU ill buy you a Ferrari.


This is going to be a way for all of our players to make 25-100k. TJD and other stars, especially if we do well can capitalize more. Winning will matter, but just on the fact of how much they make. They will all make something.
 

VanPastorMan

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Mar 21, 2002
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Central Pennsylvania Via Washington Indiana
If a basketball player goes into debt because of NIL at IU ill buy you a Ferrari.


This is going to be a way for all of our players to make 25-100k. TJD and other stars, especially if we do well can capitalize more. Winning will matter, but just on the fact of how much they make. They will all make something.
You know what will happen. Some unscrupulous person will come to a kid and say, "You give me this amount of money and we will get so much back". The kid gives the money and nothing happens and he or she is out of their personal funds, probably their parent's.
 

BusdriverE

Redshirt
Dec 16, 2018
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If a basketball player goes into debt because of NIL at IU ill buy you a Ferrari.


This is going to be a way for all of our players to make 25-100k. TJD and other stars, especially if we do well can capitalize more. Winning will matter, but just on the fact of how much they make. They will all make something.
I hope your right on this, but it is a possibility that the marginally talented fall into this trap....I bought a Damon Bailey jersey the year he got to IU but by then, he was already an IU legend and had this NIL had been in effect, he'd cashed in. PS has no such ties and is a good example of what could happen....just a nice little conversation for a Sunday morning
 

kkott

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Oct 26, 2001
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Everyone talks of players getting what they deserve but what if they fail? Just saw where PS announced his brand on a sweatshirt, but what if he doesn't recoup his original investment? Great he's got his own line, but am I or someone else going to fork out $20 or more for a kid who hasn't made a bucket for IU and has virtually no ties with IU prior to coming here? He leads the NCAA in scoring this year, leads IU to a ff4 appearance, ya, he's gonna cash in. He's the 2nd leading scoring for IU and a sub, no. Im sure someone is backing him with the upstart but I hope all these kids don't see it as an easy way to make money and then are saddled with debt when the leave school cuz they bet on themselves and owe people money when it doesn't pan out. Not picking on PS, just using him as an example
Ummm, welcome to capitalism? What if you or I start a business and it fails? I would guess for stuff like this, "making gear", most are partnering with someone who is footing the bill on the original investment for a share of the profits. I'm toying with starting a website and I'm considering investing some $$ in gear, as I think it might be popular, but it may not be and I may be out a few thousand dollars and friends and family may be getting hats and t-shirts for my failed efforts for years to come. It happens and I salute any kid who tries and invests his own money. Back to your questions, do you think that kid might be more inclined to work even harder to succeed on the court?
 
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Cavanagh.13

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Nov 6, 2019
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Ummm, welcome to capitalism? What if you or I start a business and it fails? I would guess for stuff like this, "making gear", most are partnering with someone who is footing the bill on the original investment for a share of the profits. I'm toying with starting a website and I'm considering investing some $$ in gear, as I think it might be popular, but it may not be and I may be out a few thousand dollars and friends and family may be getting hats and t-shirts for my failed efforts for years to come. It happens and I salute any kid who tries and invests his own money. Back to your questions, do you think that kid might be more inclined to work even harder to succeed on the court?

I am 100% going to be bringing up, the better they are the more followers/bigger market for them.

This is going to motivate, money motivates.
 

BusdriverE

Redshirt
Dec 16, 2018
191
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If a basketball player goes into debt because of NIL at IU ill buy you a Ferrari.


This is going to be a way for all of our players to make 25-100k. TJD and other stars, especially if we do well can capitalize more. Winning will matter, but just on the fact of how much they make. They will all make something.
I hope your right on this, but it is a possibility that the marginally talented fall into this trap....I bought a Damon Bailey jersey the year he got to IU but by then, he was already an IU legend and had this NIL had been in effect, he'd cashed in. PS
Ummm, welcome to capitalism? What if you or I start a business and it fails? I would guess for stuff like this, "making gear", most are partnering with someone who is footing the bill on the original investment for a share of the profits. I'm toying with starting a website and I'm considering investing some $$ in gear, as I think it might be popular, but it may not be and I may be out a few thousand dollars and friends and family may be getting hats and t-shirts for my failed efforts for years to come. It happens and I salute any kid who tries and invests his own money. Back to your questions, do you think that kid might be more inclined to work even harder to succeed on the court?
Good point and from the fans viewpoint, that is what we want. But many kids go on to college hoping for the same thing, looking at shoe deals, car deals and realize they have to perform for this to work and get to the NBA but fall short. Yes it is capitalism and many businesses fail, I just hope these kids don't get caught up in marketing their brand and put themselves ahead of the team, failing, and owing someone lots of $$....which is like a lot of kids when they graduate and have student loans
 

UncleMark

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Sep 1, 2001
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Everyone talks of players getting what they deserve but what if they fail? Just saw where PS announced his brand on a sweatshirt, but what if he doesn't recoup his original investment? Great he's got his own line...

I doubt very seriously that he's forked out any money for inventory. He's going to have a licensing agreement, where he probably gets some money up front and then gets a royalty on everything they sell. Don't you watch Shark Tank?
 

Joe_Hoopsier

All-Big Ten
Dec 21, 2010
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I wonder if any kids are already thinking of co-branding with another player. Say a PS to TJD ally oop posterizing play on a shirt, or the like.
 

IUclover

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Nov 19, 2015
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I’m just wonder which player will win the opportunity to rep Night Moves and Cirillas. The real money makers and takers..

“Yo, this yo boy [player name] of the IU Hoosiers! Stop by Night Moves this afternoon for an autograph, buffet and you know... Cash only. Big game in a few hours. Go Hoosiers! And don’t forget to subscribe to my IG.”
 

Cavanagh.13

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I’m just wonder which player will win the opportunity to rep Night Moves and Cirillas. The real money makers and takers..

“Yo, this yo boy [player name] of the IU Hoosiers! Stop by Night Moves this afternoon for an autograph, buffet and you know... Cash only. Big game in a few hours. Go Hoosiers! And don’t forget to subscribe to my IG.”
At what point do you yell at the sky?
 
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UncleMark

Hall of Famer
Sep 1, 2001
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Good post, Mr. Wonderful.

I seriously hope the university has some kind of programming in place that can help prevent these kids from doing bad deals and being taken advantage of. Not sure how it would work or even how involved the school would be allowed to get, but the kids are going to need to be able to get good direction. Even with good intentions, parents or family friends can't be expected to navigate these waters well, and you know damn well there will be sharks and shysters trying to get involved.
 
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i'vegotwinners

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Dec 1, 2006
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hard to see many fans buying gear represented by a player that isn't IU gear, and Adidas owns all the rights to IU gear.

a player could sell Adidas IU gear, but they would be competing with everyone else selling IU gear, and would need to pay a royalty to Adidas like everyone else..

that said, hard not to see players doing deals with Adidas/Nike/UA for a royalty on jerseys with their name on the back, which would mean the end of any school not having players names on the back.

and the instant a player doing such a deal with Adidas, Nike, UA, is allowed, is the instant Adidas/Nike/UA can effectively pay players to attend this or that school rather than a different school.

all that said, the far bigger question for me is, would any player deals with shoe/gear guys like Adidas/Nike/UA, have to be done on a per unit sold royalty basis, or could it be done on a flat fee basis.

if not limited to a per unit sold licensing royalty basis, then the company and school could offer Joe Recruit $500,000 for the rights to sell jerseys, t shirts, sweatshirts, with Joe's name on the back, regardless of the quantity of gear with Joe's name actually sold.

regardless, the bigger money will be in paying for recruits under the pretext of NIL, not in the NIL itself.
 
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kkott

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hard to see many fans buying gear represented by a player that isn't IU gear, and Adidas owns all the rights to IU gear.

a player could sell Adidas IU gear, but they would be competing with everyone else selling IU gear, and would need to pay a royalty to Adidas like everyone else..

that said, hard not to see players doing deals with Adidas/Nike/UA for a royalty on jerseys with their name on the back, which would mean the end of any school not having players names on the back.

and the instant a player doing such a deal with Adidas, Nike, UA, is allowed, is the instant Adidas/Nike/UA can effectively pay players to attend this or that school rather than a different school.

all that said, the far bigger question for me is, would any player deals with shoe/gear guys like Adidas/Nike/UA, have to be done on a per unit sold royalty bases, or could it be done on a flat fee basis.

if not limited to a per unit sold licensing royalty basis, then the company and school could offer Joe Recruit $500,000 for the rights to sell jerseys, t shirts, sweatshirts, with Joe's name on the back, regardless of the quantity of gear with Joe's name actually sold.

regardless, the bigger money will be in paying for recruits under the pretext of NIL, not in the NIL itself.
Yeah, I've thought all along that NIL will be the end of no names on IU jerseys. And, I don't really mind. I love the sentiment, but if it means us putting a more competitive team on the floor, then I think we've got to adjust to the current rules. Hope we keep the candy stripes though!
 

kkott

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I hope your right on this, but it is a possibility that the marginally talented fall into this trap....I bought a Damon Bailey jersey the year he got to IU but by then, he was already an IU legend and had this NIL had been in effect, he'd cashed in. PS

Good point and from the fans viewpoint, that is what we want. But many kids go on to college hoping for the same thing, looking at shoe deals, car deals and realize they have to perform for this to work and get to the NBA but fall short. Yes it is capitalism and many businesses fail, I just hope these kids don't get caught up in marketing their brand and put themselves ahead of the team, failing, and owing someone lots of $$....which is like a lot of kids when they graduate and have student loans
Back to your original post, there are a select few kids who have that "wow" factor that I think could really cash in in a big way. Think LeBron, Zion, or if you go back that far: Vince Carter. In football, a kid like Trevor Lawrence, or realistically Clemson, OSU or Bama's starting QB every year. Those kids had significant "buzz" coming in to college or will have huge social media followings and I think many of those kids will cash in to the tune of 7 figures. But, some of the biggest "winners" will be the kids who have huge SM followings on their own (look up Fresno St Cavinder twins), often associated with beauty or fashion, but those kids will cash in in a big way too. For some of them, college might/will be more profitable than after they graduate. For most kids, I think they are looking at modest earnings, that might allow them to breathe a little easier.

I think very, very few will wind up as losers with NIL as you, and VPM (as is often the case, hard to even comprehend his POV) are worrying. I think if you are a supporter of the kids, this is a big win for them in almost every respect and will open the door for kids to make some $$ even in non fball/bball sports. Great soccer or swimming recruits coming to IU will have terrific opportunities for instance. Or, a wrestler at Iowa, etc, etc, etc... It's a whole new world, but I think most of it is going to be positive for these kids.
 

hoosier48

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May 21, 2008
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Yeah, I've thought all along that NIL will be the end of no names on IU jerseys. And, I don't really mind. I love the sentiment, but if it means us putting a more competitive team on the floor, then I think we've got to adjust to the current rules. Hope we keep the candy stripes though!
No names on the jersey could, no probably will cause a kid to reconsider a team no doubt..$$..$$..$$
 

kkott

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No names on the jersey could, no probably will cause a kid to reconsider a team no doubt..$$..$$..$$
Yep, and if you sell a jersey with their name on it, you're going to owe them a royalty. That'll be another confusing wrinkle to iron out. What if TJD wants a bigger percentage than Anthony Leal commands?
 
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hookyIU1990

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There's barely any money in jersey sales at the pro level for most athletes based on what I've read. I can't imagine it being much of a money maker for college players.
 

iubud

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Ummm, welcome to capitalism? What if you or I start a business and it fails? I would guess for stuff like this, "making gear", most are partnering with someone who is footing the bill on the original investment for a share of the profits. I'm toying with starting a website and I'm considering investing some $$ in gear, as I think it might be popular, but it may not be and I may be out a few thousand dollars and friends and family may be getting hats and t-shirts for my failed efforts for years to come. It happens and I salute any kid who tries and invests his own money. Back to your questions, do you think that kid might be more inclined to work even harder to succeed on the court?
It's bound to be more of a distraction for some. We will see how this turns out. College basketball is changing. The illusion of amateur athletics is over.
 

i'vegotwinners

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Yep, and if you sell a jersey with their name on it, you're going to owe them a royalty. That'll be another confusing wrinkle to iron out. What if TJD wants a bigger percentage than Anthony Leal commands?

good question.

but as i brought up before, i think the bigger question is whether any royalties need be tied to the number of sales at all, or if they can be negotiated on a flat fee basis.

ie, Joe Recruit says he wants $200,000 per yr for said school to sell his jersey with his name, regardless of the quantity of actual jerseys sold with his name.

and what if the school/gear company says they aren't paying Joe that much regardless of if Joe's attending said school is contingent or not.

but coach Archie Hotseat, who makes 3 mil a yr plus perks, thinks the $200,000 number would be worth it to him. (as do his assistants, also making big bucks).

in the end, could it not be just how much is Joe's attending worth to the school itself, but also how much is it worth to the coaching staff making millions a yr.

as to a scenario of, "the rules won't allow the schools or coaches to funnel money through the NIL to Joe", how are you ever going to stop them legally circumventing any such rules?

as i brought up in another thread, with the schools/NCAA going the route of NIL rather than just paying players something, *which they absolutely could afford), they have given up any ability what so ever to police or control this in the slightest as i see it.

thinking they can, would be beyond naive imo.

perhaps i'm all wrong.

the capitalism algorithm and history tell me i'm not.

whatever anyone can think up, will be done.
 
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jimmygoiu

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Friend of the U forms an NIL company and advances 5*johny $750k to represent him from commitment/signing date thru his college career. Coaches keep The Friend informed of the 3 or 4 players worthy of this deal. I guess that is one way for coaches to buy their players.
 

Brewskie

Freshman
Jun 23, 2002
653
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Everyone talks of players getting what they deserve but what if they fail? Just saw where PS announced his brand on a sweatshirt, but what if he doesn't recoup his original investment? Great he's got his own line, but am I or someone else going to fork out $20 or more for a kid who hasn't made a bucket for IU and has virtually no ties with IU prior to coming here? He leads the NCAA in scoring this year, leads IU to a ff4 appearance, ya, he's gonna cash in. He's the 2nd leading scoring for IU and a sub, no. Im sure someone is backing him with the upstart but I hope all these kids don't see it as an easy way to make money and then are saddled with debt when the leave school cuz they bet on themselves and owe people money when it doesn't pan out. Not picking on PS, just using him as an example
Then he gets an early education in Profit & Loss.
 
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Cavanagh.13

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You'd have smoked more weed???

I wasn't smart enough to smoke weed over drinking alcohol at 18. Sadly I was young and dumb. Fortunately, I have researched the extensive studies done and have a brain capable of forming my own conclusions on the pros and cons of marijuana.

Keep pushing weed as a degenerate gateway drug. It is a good look for the imbeciles of the world, would expect nothing less.
 

SoccerSammy

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Sep 7, 2012
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I wasn't smart enough to smoke weed over drinking alcohol at 18. Sadly I was young and dumb. Fortunately, I have researched the extensive studies done and have a brain capable of forming my own conclusions on the pros and cons of marijuana.

Keep pushing weed as a degenerate gateway drug. It is a good look for the imbeciles of the world, would expect nothing less.
show me anywhere that I've called MJ the "gateway drug".... Never said it... never will.... But in my profession I deal with a lot of dopeheads... Yet to see one that makes me think, "Gee, that stuff really makes the brain work better".... Nice try, pothead.
 
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Cavanagh.13

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show me anywhere that I've called MJ the "gateway drug".... Never said it... never will.... But in my profession I deal with a lot of dopeheads... Yet to see one that makes me think, "Gee, that stuff really makes the brain work better".... Nice try, pothead.

You didn’t answer this last time, probably won’t this time either. How many of your dope heads don’t drink alcohol? Also do you drink alcohol? I will refer to you as drunk from now on.
 
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SoccerSammy

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I peg you more of a half gallon of the cheap stuff kinda guy. Closet alcohohic that drinks away his 50+ hour work week for the man. Carry on, alchy.
Haha... some of us have grown up. I haven't been drunk in at least 15 years (or possibly longer). And if I did, I wouldn't brag about it on a public message board like some do about their weed consumption.
 

Cavanagh.13

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Haha... some of us have grown up. I haven't been drunk in at least 15 years (or possibly longer). And if I did, I wouldn't brag about it on a public message board like some do about their weed consumption.

When was the last time you smoked weed? When I say I smoke weed, I am still less intoxicated than you just breathing oxygen.

I can drive a vehicle or do any athletic activity far better than you while high, than you sober. I’d bet you one year of your salary down at the food stamps office and we can document it for all to see.
 

SoccerSammy

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Sep 7, 2012
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When was the last time you smoked weed? When I say I smoke weed, I am still less intoxicated than you just breathing oxygen.

I can drive a vehicle or do any athletic activity far better than you while high, than you sober. I’d bet you one year of your salary down at the food stamps office and we can document it for all to see.
Wow.. the old “I drive better drunk” applies to being high also? It must be great to never get past age 20
 

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