Payroll tax

[hoot1]

I think government by EO is dangerous. In this case it’s probably ultra vires. Our government has become pretty much dysfunctional. On the one hand we have Pelosi and Schumer who pack their bill with irrelevant liberal wish list items and who are obsessed with RESIST! and on the other we have an impatient and impulsive Trump who is not a politician. Meanwhile we have action that must be taken. Public policy now is all about who has the power, who gets credit, and a collective pissing on the people they are supposed to serve.


I think Trump has done what he could with infrastructure. More must start in congress. Between impeachment, investigations, lockdowns and pandemic relief congress doesn’t seem to be interested. The bill needs to get through the Democratic house, I don’t think Pelosi will ever want to see Trump sign a meaning infrastructure bill.

COH, completely agree that governing by EO runs completely contrary to the federal government which our founders envisioned.

COH, are you concerned about the Democratic federalistic experiment in governing which our founders gave us as being viable given our divisiveness which exists today?.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

COH, completely agree that governing by EO runs completely contrary to the federal government which our founders envisioned.

COH, are you concerned about the Democratic federalistic experiment in governing which our founders gave us as being viable given our divisiveness which exists today?.

Given our divisiveness today, nothing will work. Too many people and interests have come to believe that all who disagree are not to be bargained with, tolerated, or heard. No system that seeks to be of the people, by the people, and for the people can function in this environment.

 

[twenty02]

Many places around here have help wanted signs out. The $600 unemployment benefit is counterproductive in some sectors and locations.

UI is too high for proper incentives. I'll agree with that. The GOP proposal of 70% of prior wages is ideal.... unfortunately the absurdity that states can't run a computer program to run a 3rd grade math problem is embarrassing.

They've only had a decade since the last recession to fix it.

 

[twenty02]

Given our divisiveness today, nothing will work. Too many people and interests have come to believe that all who disagree are not to be bargained with, tolerated, or heard. No system that seeks to be of the people, by the people, and for the people can function in this environment.

This is hilariously laughable.

Politics got hard. And I'm not smart enough to persuade anyone.

Throw out the constitution

Signed,.

COH
​

Just imagine back to the gold ole days of the 1770s, when everyone agreed about everything! (Nope)

 

[Marvin the Martian]

COH, completely agree that governing by EO runs completely contrary to the federal government which our founders envisioned.

COH, are you concerned about the Democratic federalistic experiment in governing which our founders gave us as being viable given our divisiveness which exists today?.

Is our divisiveness today worse than our beginning? Newspapers of the era were blatant tools of the party, Burr and Hamilton fought a duel.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Additionally, IIUC, all Trump's order does is reduce the withholding, it doesn't reduce the tax obligation. There will be a lot of pissed off people come tax time who learn they have to pay those back taxes and won't get the refund they were counting on.

correct. Here’s a good summary

https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/601197/what-trumps-payroll-tax-cut-will-mean-for-you

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

unfortunately the absurdity that states can't run a computer program to run a 3rd grade math problem is embarrassing.

this is well said

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Sending checks is purely political and is remarkably stupid.

I cannot figure out how infrastructure is not coming up. The 30 year treasury rate is 1.2. It is practically interest free to do infrastructure that already needs done. We will pay much more in five years.

The $600 needs to be passed but I am willing to cap it at 95%, or even 90%, of salary, to give conservatives cover to support it.

although they are both forms of stimulus creation, they are wildly different. Only a small subset of citizens, particularly lower income earners, are able to be positively impacted by infrastructure program (e.g., wages go up, new job or hours, etc.)

 

[Marvin the Martian]

although they are both forms of stimulus creation, they are wildly different. Only a small subset of citizens, particularly lower income earners, are able to be positively impacted by infrastructure program (e.g., wages go up, new job or hours, etc.)

Infrastructure solves two problems. It helps with the economic problem. It isn't perfect for that but nothing is short of a vaccine.

But we also have to have it and the cost of borrowing is extremely low. So we will get more infrastructure, which we have to have anyway, for the buck.

The House passed an infrastructure bill. It included green money so the Senate refused to consider any infrastructure. That has been the Senate lately, unless we get the bill we want we aren't going to negotiate.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Infrastructure solves two problems. It helps with the economic problem. It isn't perfect for that but nothing is short of a vaccine.

But we also have to have it and the cost of borrowing is extremely low. So we will get more infrastructure, which we have to have anyway, for the buck.

The House passed an infrastructure bill. It included green money so the Senate refused to consider any infrastructure. That has been the Senate lately, unless we get the bill we want we aren't going to negotiate.

But that has nothing to with the fact that it’s benefits are far less impactful short-term, particularly for the aforementioned segment of the population.

It’s a no-brainer, but less of a political victory

 

[Marvin the Martian]

But that has nothing to with the fact that it’s benefits are far less impactful short-term, particularly for the aforementioned segment of the population.

It’s a no-brainer, but less of a political victory

Compared to the $1200 I do not know infrastructure is worse. People with jobs are largely saving it, or paying down debt. Neither helps this economy. I would think the smart still employed recent grads used it on student loans, that is what I asked my 3 to do.

The extra money to unemployed helps them, that is why I view it the most important. After that, I think anything that boosts hiring helps. Frankly a massive government contact tracing program would be a good choice. It hires people and gets something done that needs done.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

This is hilariously laughable.

Politics got hard. And I'm not smart enough to persuade anyone.

Throw out the constitution

Signed,.

COH
​

Just imagine back to the gold ole days of the 1770s, when everyone agreed about everything! (Nope)

Good grief twenty. Do you really wanna say things are the same now as they were even during the Democratic rancor over GWB, let alone during the time of Reagan and Tip O’NEILL?

Here is how progressive Dems have progressed in just 3 years:

Trump is a racist

Half of Trump supporters are deplorable and racist

Anybody who votes for Trump is racist

All Republicans are racist

The U.S courthouse in Portland and the Colorado State Capital both with boarded up windows, burn scares, and graffiti look like relics from Gary Indiana. The national anthem is finished as a unifying event. The aspiration of MLK’s “I have a dream” is over because now the dream is white. The Democrats accept and encourage all of this because George Floyd or something—and power.

Don’t waste your time lecturing me about things are simply “hard”. I know better. The tradition of civil discussions about issues and of peaceful transition of power is over.

 

[twenty02]

Good grief twenty. Do you really wanna say things are the same now as they were even during the Democratic rancor over GWB, let alone during the time of Reagan and Tip O’NEILL?

Here is how progressive Dems have progressed in just 3 years:

Trump is a racist

Half of Trump supporters are deplorable and racist

Anybody who votes for Trump is racist

All Republicans are racist

The U.S courthouse in Portland and the Colorado State Capital both with boarded up windows, burn scares, and graffiti look like relics from Gary Indiana. The national anthem is finished as a unifying event. The aspiration of MLK’s “I have a dream” is over because now the dream is white. The Democrats accept and encourage all of this because George Floyd or something—and power.

Don’t waste your time lecturing me about things are simply “hard”. I know better. The tradition of civil discussions about issues and of peaceful transition of power is over.

Good grief CO. This country fought a civil war where 600k Americans died at each other's hands.

Some 50 people died and thousands injured during race riots of 1968.

But now "tradition" is over. And we've gotta toss the constitution entirely as Democrats are mean to Trump. Facts are quite simple.... Trump can't get anything done because he's intensely repulsive to half the country's population.

This too shall pass.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Good grief CO. This country fought a civil war where 600k Americans died at each other's hands.

Some 50 people died and thousands injured during race riots of 1968.

But now "tradition" is over. And we've gotta toss the constitution entirely as Democrats are mean to Trump. Facts are quite simple.... Trump can't get anything done because he's intensely repulsive to half the country's population.

This too shall pass.

Yeah, we fought a civil war. And when it was over Grant, Lincoln, and Johnson gave pardons and granted amnesty to the rebs for the sake of reuniting us and the country. Now all the Democrats can talk about are traitors and treason. So much for re-unification.

The race riots drove Detroit to bankruptcy. It never recovered. I’m not optimistic about NYC and other places after the double whammy of Covid and big city Democratic stupidity and incompetence.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Yeah, we fought a civil war. And when it was over Grant, Lincoln, and Johnson gave pardons and granted amnesty to the rebs for the sake of reuniting us and the country. Now all the Democrats can talk about are traitors and treason. So much for re-unification.

The race riots drove Detroit to bankruptcy. It never recovered. I’m not optimistic about NYC and other places after the double whammy of Covid and big city Democratic stupidity and incompetence.

Things got ugly fast. Jefferson's camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman." In return, Adams' men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father." As the slurs piled on, Adams was labeled a fool, a hypocrite, a criminal, and a tyrant, while Jefferson was branded a weakling, an atheist, a libertine, and a coward. Even Martha Washington succumbed to the propaganda, telling a clergyman that Jefferson was "one of the most detestable of mankind."
​

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/12487/adams-vs-jefferson-birth-negative-campaigning-us

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Good grief twenty. Do you really wanna say things are the same now as they were even during the Democratic rancor over GWB, let alone during the time of Reagan and Tip O’NEILL?

Here is how progressive Dems have progressed in just 3 years:

Trump is a racist

Half of Trump supporters are deplorable and racist

Anybody who votes for Trump is racist

All Republicans are racist

The U.S courthouse in Portland and the Colorado State Capital both with boarded up windows, burn scares, and graffiti look like relics from Gary Indiana. The national anthem is finished as a unifying event. The aspiration of MLK’s “I have a dream” is over because now the dream is white. The Democrats accept and encourage all of this because George Floyd or something—and power.

Don’t waste your time lecturing me about things are simply “hard”. I know better. The tradition of civil discussions about issues and of peaceful transition of power is over.

Any outrage left over for the vandals that defaced the beautiful City/County Council approved BLM mural that local artists painted on Indiana Avenue between the Walker Theater and the Urban League headquarters in Indy?

https://www.twincities.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/20120830__120831Wheelmen.jpg?w=530

I wonder if it was this guy who took it upon himself to daily ruin a little girl's sidewalk chalk BLM drawings with water, erasing the word "Black"?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/08/us/white-man-erases-black-lives-matter-chalk-trnd/index.html

Or this guy in Lawrence Township who had a habit of burning crosses for his black neighbor?

https://cbs4indy.com/news/crime/law...ly-burning-cross-in-yard-displaying-swastika/

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Any outrage left over for the vandals that defaced the beautiful City/County Council approved BLM mural that local artists painted on Indiana Avenue between the Walker Theater and the Urban League headquarters in Indy?

https://www.twincities.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/20120830__120831Wheelmen.jpg?w=530

I wonder if it was this guy who took it upon himself to daily ruin a little girl's sidewalk chalk BLM drawings with water, erasing the word "Black"?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/08/us/white-man-erases-black-lives-matter-chalk-trnd/index.html

Or this guy in Lawrence Township who had a habit of burning crosses for his black neighbor?

https://cbs4indy.com/news/crime/law...ly-burning-cross-in-yard-displaying-swastika/

More typical liberal clap trap from you. I post a comment about how decisive we have become and you call it “outrage”. You and millions like you are why we can’t have nice things.

If you want to start a thread about the whatabouts you posted, go ahead.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

More typical liberal clap trap from you. I post a comment about how decisive we have become and you call it “outrage”. You and millions like you are why we can’t have nice things.

If you want to start a thread about the whatabouts you posted, go ahead.

It's my right to post what I want, where I want.
Why do you hate the Constitution?
Oh, and I think you mean, "divisive", not "decisive", Dr. Wordsmith.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

It's my right to post what I want, where I want.
Why do you hate the Constitution?
Oh, and I think you mean, "divisive", not "decisive", Dr. Wordsmith.

You indeed have the right to post what you want. But whether using that right as you do is right is your choice.

Thanks for the correction. Phones, clumsy fingers, and spelling algorithms has its perils.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Things got ugly fast. Jefferson's camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman." In return, Adams' men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father." As the slurs piled on, Adams was labeled a fool, a hypocrite, a criminal, and a tyrant, while Jefferson was branded a weakling, an atheist, a libertine, and a coward. Even Martha Washington succumbed to the propaganda, telling a clergyman that Jefferson was "one of the most detestable of mankind."
​

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/12487/adams-vs-jefferson-birth-negative-campaigning-us

Meh. That looks like a typical thread on the cooler.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

You indeed have the right to post what you want. But whether using that right as you do is right is your choice.

Thanks for the correction. Phones, clumsy fingers, and spelling algorithms has its perils.

I do exercise my choice, as a liberated American to post as I see fit. Right now, my focus is on tweaking your unmasked nose.
I'll be right here.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Meh. That looks like a typical thread on the cooler.

And that shows what? That our divisiveness is NOT new nor does it warrant gloom and doom. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

And that shows what? That our divisiveness is NOT new nor does it warrant gloom and doom. Thanks for proving my point.

I think the posters here from both sides can come together and reach an agreement about the Covid relief bill. That’s something congress can’t do.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I think the posters here from both sides can come together and reach an agreement about the Covid relief bill. That’s something congress can’t do.

Our federal system has not seen a VP kill a Treasury Secretary in a long time, so things are better at that level.

 

[The Vid]

Good grief twenty. Do you really wanna say things are the same now as they were even during the Democratic rancor over GWB, let alone during the time of Reagan and Tip O’NEILL?

Here is how progressive Dems have progressed in just 3 years:

Trump is a racist

Half of Trump supporters are deplorable and racist

Anybody who votes for Trump is racist

All Republicans are racist

The U.S courthouse in Portland and the Colorado State Capital both with boarded up windows, burn scares, and graffiti look like relics from Gary Indiana. The national anthem is finished as a unifying event. The aspiration of MLK’s “I have a dream” is over because now the dream is white. The Democrats accept and encourage all of this because George Floyd or something—and power.

Don’t waste your time lecturing me about things are simply “hard”. I know better. The tradition of civil discussions about issues and of peaceful transition of power is over.

Hyperbole much? You sound like a teenage brat.

You elect an unqualified reality tv drama queen to be POTUS and things will go bad 100% of the time. This is not complicated

 

[UncleMark]

Hyperbole much? You sound like a teenage brat.

You elect an unqualified reality tv drama queen to be POTUS and things will go bad 100% of the time. This is not complicated

I've learned that three of the most freeing words one can say are "I was wrong." None of us enjoy it, but all of us can benefit from it. The alternative is becoming COH.

 

[hoot1]

Is our divisiveness today worse than our beginning? Newspapers of the era were blatant tools of the party, Burr and Hamilton fought a duel.

Thanks to industrialization, urbanization, and globalization, I would argue divisiveness at all levels of government is considerably more harmful to business and individual citizens than in days of yore.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Thanks to industrialization, urbanization, and globalization, I would argue divisiveness at all levels of government is considerably more harmful to business and individual citizens than in days of yore.

It may be industrial society is more sensitive to rancor. But I am not sure how to test the hypothesis.

Largely speaking, I am not sure the rancor is as bad at lower levels as national.

 

[TommyCracker]

Hyperbole much? You sound like a teenage brat.

You elect an unqualified reality tv drama queen to be POTUS and things will go bad 100% of the time. This is not complicated

That the pubs were so desperate, stupid or both to anoint an unqualified, reality TV drama queen, internet troll as the representative of the party is one thing.

Hey we all f up and make bad decisions.

The fact that they've tucked tail, doubled down and let dumbass Trumpism run unchecked is what's unforgivable.

Cracks me up that Fox is whining about cancel culture and division when Trump's MO his entire life is to lie out of his ass to create chaos and division.

 

[T.M.P.]

Trump is a racist

Half of Trump supporters are deplorable and racist

Anybody who votes for Trump is racist

All Republicans are racist

• Trump is a racist - Fact
  
• Half of Trump supporters are deplorable and racist - Fact.
• Anybody who votes for Trump is racist - Not true: some are just dumb or chronic malcontents wanting to blame someone else for their social ineffectiveness but most racists do vote for Trump.
• All Republicans are racist - Not true: the Trumpublicans are not Republicans. Republicans are not racists, some (too many) Trumpublicans are.

Now do math again and make me laugh.

 

[outside shooter]

• Half of Trump supporters are deplorable and racist - Fact.

Half? That's like 20%, by CO.H. math, I think.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

A lot of older people depend totally on social security and I believe the average check is something like $1500/month in Indiana. I suppose you can argue that they did not save properly during their lifetimes but there are so many variables on why that is not always possible: children, bad marriages, sickness, injury, addictions, etc. Some people could never catch a break and some were just irresponsible but nonetheless try living on $1500/month.

anyone getting $1,500 mo needed to be gainfully employed most of their working life, so hardly irresponsible.

and with that being the average, plenty get less who worked most of their life.

that said, being single or a couple matters, as $1,500 mo pre medicare being taken out and $3,000 a month, are a big living quality gap, when 2 basically do live as cheap as one.

as for other sources of income or wealth for retirees, for many inheritance makes up a lot of that, and not something one has much control over, though a huge difference in the wealth of one vs another.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

COH, completely agree that governing by EO runs completely contrary to the federal government which our founders envisioned.

COH, are you concerned about the Democratic federalistic experiment in governing which our founders gave us as being viable given our divisiveness which exists today?.

Given our divisiveness today, nothing will work. Too many people and interests have come to believe that all who disagree are not to be bargained with, tolerated, or heard. No system that seeks to be of the people, by the people, and for the people can function in this environment.

Is our divisiveness today worse than our beginning? Newspapers of the era were blatant tools of the party, Burr and Hamilton fought a duel.

the divisiveness is engineered and well planned out, not inherent, and being done to pit half the working class against the other half of the working class, rather than allowing the working class to have a united front vs the investor class who have been waging a class war since Reagan, and winning in a landslide due to their total takeover of the govt, the courts, the media, and the over the top outright stupidity of the working class allowing and falling for it.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

It would seem to me Biden commercials touting Trump's desire to make Social Security/Medicare tax cuts PERMANENT would soon Trump in Florida. Am I missing something as there are few Trump paths to victory without Florida.

 

[IUCrazy2]

View embedded media

In spite of all the EO's (which I am not a big fan of) it is not Trump's job to pass an extension of the $600 benefit. That is Congress. And Pelosi seems hell bent on using the bill as leverage to get everything she wants on her ridiculous $3 trillion bill or she will use workers as pawns for the election.

Most of the problems in this country have nothing to do with who sits in the house on Pennsylvania Ave., it is the fact that congress has been dysfunctional for basically my entire adult life.

 

[Bill4411]

So are employers also going to be relieved of contributing their half to payroll? I am presuming this is what it is really about because if you have a job-well congratulations you are probably doing fine. Where the relief would seem to be necessary is for the unemployed not the employed.

 

[Cortez88]

I've learned that three of the most freeing words one can say are "I was wrong." None of us enjoy it, but all of us can benefit from it. The alternative is becoming COH.

Someone who voted for Trump and continues to support Trump is whining about divisiveness. I just can’t.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Someone who voted for Trump and continues to support Trump is whining about divisiveness. I just can’t.

Sorry man, there is not one person who voted for either of the 2 parties that can shirk that. Y'all were calling Bush Hitler in the early 2000's.

 

[Cortez88]

Sorry man, there is not one person who voted for either of the 2 parties that can shirk that. Y'all were calling Bush Hitler in the early 2000's.

Please show where I called W Hitler. If you can’t, you should apologize.

 

[UncleMark]

So are employers also going to be relieved of contributing their half to payroll? I am presuming this is what it is really about because if you have a job-well congratulations you are probably doing fine. Where the relief would seem to be necessary is for the unemployed not the employed.

Again, no one is being "relieved" of paying this. It's just being delayed.

IIUC, employers are not being allowed to delay their contributions, BICBW. Regardless, if I'm an employer I'm still going to withhold and still set aside my portion. The last thing I want to do is have to take it all out of my workers' checks all at once. If not that, have them come back at me when they file their taxes and get hit for the under-withholding.