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OT: IU/ND "reversible jacket" theory...

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indianascout1991

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Nov 12, 2014
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I know that fans of other schools like to propound that the alleged "reversible jacket" phenomenon is true amongst certain Indiana fans, but I just wanted to see what people here might think. As far as I can tell, the perception of other fans suggests that such phenomenon refers to a scenario where one cheers for Indiana in basketball and Notre Dame in football.

I sometimes see posters here who criticize Indiana basketball and its staff, but seem to be affiliated with sites such as Irishillustrated.com, which I believe is a Notre Dame fan site.

I concede that, in any sport, I would definitely cheer for Notre Dame over Purdue, or Kentucky over Purdue, or the Taliban over Purdue. However, I am an Indiana fan, and I would never go out and buy Notre Dame or Kentucky or Taliban gear or label myself as a fan of any of those organizations.

With all of that in mind, I was just wondering, for my own amusement, is there really a significant group of fans out there that would consider themselves as Indiana basketball fans but Notre Dame football fans? If you fall into that crowd, how would you answer the following questions:

- If Indiana plays ND in basketball, I would be for: Indiana or ND
- If Indiana plays ND in football, I would be for: Indiana or ND
- I went to which of the following schools for undergraduate and/or graduate purposes: Indiana or ND

I am just curious.
 
It's not a theory. It's real, but here is the main reason why...

Indiana basketball and Notre Dame football likely have more casual fans than any other college teams in the state in their sport. Meaning, they have more fans of people who didn't attend either school or never intended to attend either school. I have two examples. I know a Yale grad who is an avid fan of IU basketball and ND football who would never "stoop" to attend a non-Ivy for actual college. I also know a Butler grad who lived in near Indy, didn't want to be too far from family for elderly grandparent, illness reasons and wanted to be on a small campus.

I went to high school with a number of kids who grew up IU fans, still root for IU but went to Purdue. They wanted majors not offered at IU. I'm sure the flip side exists, but PU and Butler fans seems to get anxious at the idea that someone (such as myself) would/could/should root for IU basketball and ND football.

I don't care enough about college football for this to be a real issue, but I also don't know many IU-Bloomington guys who really cheer for Notre Dame. I'm guessing if they do it's because they have a parent who went to ND or didn't attend either IU or ND and just grew up casual fans.

There aren't many casual PU fans in either sport. There aren't many casual IU football fans. There aren't many casual ND basketball fans. I can't name any Butler football fans who didn't attend Butler, and I'd gather most Butler football fans who attend games after graduating are still connected to the campus through work or children. Casual Butler basketball fans are Indy area fans who love the program, and it's close.

I bet IU gets more athletic donations from people and businesses who have no direct link to IU than Butler does in total athletic donations. A lot of this may change over time should IU get further away from their glory days without revisiting them, but the passion of the fan base is still there and it comes from beyond those with IU diplomas.
 
I grew up one of these guys. I started following IU basketball when McGinnis and Wright attended IU. I was torn somewhat when Dantley attended ND but only followed them when they played UCLA. I've donated money to IU athletic program and attended many,many IU games when Knight and Davis were at IU. I was a NOTRE DAME IRISH football fan since I was six years old-I'm now 60. I'm discouraged in the road IU took when they hired Sampson- I knew that was going to come back to haunt IU's prestige. I was not and am not a Crean fan. I ,however respect IU and the players that don the cream and crimson. I would have loved to know the older players from the fifties and early sixties. NOTRE DAME will always be my first love in football sports. The Charlie Weis years were as bad as the Sampson years. So many great young men have played for IU that might not have been great at IU-Pat Graham comes to mind. If not for injuries, he could have been great. I will always root for IU over ND in basketball -always have ,even with Rivers,Dantley,Shumate and others . IU doesn't even want to play ND in football-no contest. Don't know if that helps but my roots are deeply engrained in both programs. It doesn't make me a bad person. Ara Parsegian and Bob Knight forever.My last name is McCracken so that might have a little to do with loving IU basketball.
 
And, of course, Notre Dame never loses to anyone in football but top powerhouses. Does South Florida, Connecticut, Tulsa, Pitt, North Carolina, Boston College and Purdue come to mind? Those were all losses within the last 10 years. But then the Irish never have to worry about the weak teams like Ohio State and Wisconsin that Big Ten teams have to face!
 
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Originally posted by indianascout1991:
I know that fans of other schools like to propound that the alleged "reversible jacket" phenomenon is true amongst certain Indiana fans, but I just wanted to see what people here might think. As far as I can tell, the perception of other fans suggests that such phenomenon refers to a scenario where one cheers for Indiana in basketball and Notre Dame in football.

I sometimes see posters here who criticize Indiana basketball and its staff, but seem to be affiliated with sites such as Irishillustrated.com, which I believe is a Notre Dame fan site.

I concede that, in any sport, I would definitely cheer for Notre Dame over Purdue, or Kentucky over Purdue, or the Taliban over Purdue. However, I am an Indiana fan, and I would never go out and buy Notre Dame or Kentucky or Taliban gear or label myself as a fan of any of those organizations.

With all of that in mind, I was just wondering, for my own amusement, is there really a significant group of fans out there that would consider themselves as Indiana basketball fans but Notre Dame football fans? If you fall into that crowd, how would you answer the following questions:

- If Indiana plays ND in basketball, I would be for: Indiana or ND
- If Indiana plays ND in football, I would be for: Indiana or ND
- I went to which of the following schools for undergraduate and/or graduate purposes: Indiana or ND

I am just curious.
Click to expand...
Played a lot of ball with people from the Fort and up north.

It's not a theory; there are a ton of them. There are obvious reasons (bandwagoning) and there are less obvious reasons (They almost never play each other which keeps the casual fan's conscious clear) either way they exist, and those fans have kids that grow up like that and etc etc.

I would almost guarantee the majority of those types of fans did not attend either school.

Personally, I can't imagine it, and I think it's pretty ridiculous and that's from beyond a Purdue fan- As a sports fan in general I'd never do that, but to each their own especially since there is a tradition of it. It's a unique dynamic that is only really relatable to Kansas Basketball fans and Nebraska Football fans.

This post was edited on 2/27 5:56 PM by tippco333
 
Not true

There's uk basketball / OSU football fans. There's even UK / Bama fans. While I can never embrace anything ND, people here feel like ND represents their community. IU bears the name of their home state on their jersey. Not too hard to understand. My only pet peeve with the whole
Thing is when they start talking about the team with the word "we" in the sentence. "We need to win this one!!!"

Never understand that.
 
I am 62,and a lifelong Purdue fan.I have known a lot of guys who claim to be HARDCORE,LIFELONG fans of whatever teams,college or pro,that are having outstanding seasons.A good case in point is that I worked with a lot of guys who were strong Bulls fans when they won NBA titles ,but when Jordan,Pippen,etc,left the Bulls,they denied ever being fans of the Bulls.I think many fans just want to root for a winner.
 
People are fans for different reasons.

I am an Indiana alum, and so I am an Indiana fan in all sports. Many IU fans never set foot on campus, and it's not hard to imagine for me that they may be fans of IU Hoops while also being fans of ND football for entirely independent reasons.

goat
 
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Re: I would guess that if you looked across the country......

.....the vast majority of fans for any school, seated in a stadium or an arena never attended the school.
Ohio is a great example. The entire state bleeds scarlet and grey but many of the truly hardcore Buckeye fans are not alumni. The school itself carries a huge "state pride" thing. The same holds true for any state in which there is one primary school: Wisconsin, Tennessee, Nebraska, etc.

You see things like the reversible jacket syndrome in families that had no certain loyalties or ties to any university and grow up in a region surrounded by other institutions vying for attention. We all know, it's simply human nature to gravitate toward a winner.

You never see these type of things in "single school" states as mentioned above. The state university is a rallying point for residents of the state.
 
Re: You've been hit with a double-whammy then........

.....two once-proud programs that haven't produced anything in ages.

You've seen it all in football. Who ever thought there would also come a day when a school like Oregon would whip the tar out of ND in football? Things do change.
 
I grew up an ND fan, but attended IU

I'm from a suburb northwest of Chicago so I didn't know much about IU until I went here for the business school. My first exposure to IU basketball was rooting against them in the Big Four Classic in the mid 80s (ND, IU, UK and Ville).

Anyway, I knew NOTHING about IU until I came here and the first football game of my college experience was IU at ND in 1991. I went and wore ND gear, but remembering being happy when IU was keeping it close (damn, you Irv Smith). I gradually learned about all things IU and grew to love the place. I also never abandoned my childhood team.

So I wear the Reversible Jacket Fan moniker with pride. I cheer for both teams in all sports, but I'd be happy if Glass scheduled a ND/IU football game in Indy, I would love to find out who I'd end up pulling for. My guess is that it would be IU simply because a win would be some much more meaningful for the program.

In basketball, I want IU to win always. Even if it means that a certain unpopular coach gets to stick around for a few more years.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
IU/ND

Grew up in the Region as a rabid ND football and basketball fan.

IU was always #2.

Then attended and graduated from IUB and everything changed.

I have cheered for Indiana against ND ever since. (edit: In all sports)

Still cheer for ND but they are now a distant second.

This post was edited on 2/27 8:11 PM by IUINSB
 
I have never met one

But I can imagine that folks that attended other small schools or maybe no school at all Wouk end up bandwagoning on the two marquee programs in the state.
 
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At the risk of being bashed, I am One...

Here's the deal. I grew up an IU basketball fan in the 70s/80s in Eville. I don't really remember IU football back in the 70s. They didn't have very many good years, so I didn't see them on TV or hear anybody talking about them. I did however see ND all of the time. And when it became bowl time ND was always playing in a big bowl, sometimes with National Championship implications. Since they were from Indiana, I cheered for them often and became hooked. Since IU and ND never played in football, I was never conflicted about the whole IU basketball ND football thing. To a little kid, it was like they were in different leagues.

I did consider attending IU, but I was going to go where I was being recruited for baseball. Morgan recruited me, but never offered. I went to SIU, then transferred to a JUCO. I graduated from USI. I have no real connection to IU. During the Mallory era I started following IU a lot more. A high school friend played OLB during that time, so I even went to the Peach and Liberty Bowls. But that was also the same time ND was # 1 team in the land. I cheered for both. They never met.

When IU and ND finally did play that series in the 90s, I was conflicted. I wanted IU to do well, but realistically I did not want them to ruin ND National Title chances... I especially did not want to see Miami or FSU win. To me one loss when not be devasting at all to IU, but it would to ND.

Never have I cheered for ND basketball.
 
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Accepted at Indiana and Notre Dame: went to IU, never regretted it

I have never understood people who cheer for ND, especially non- catholics. When I visited South Bend while touring colleges, it just threw me for a loop as to how rooted in Catholicism ND was. I just personally felt like an outsider (I felt that way when I was accepted at Northwestern as well, because everyone was driving BMWs and wearing designer clothes, and here I was some kid that grew up in the projects).

I would think that in order to cheer for a school, you would have to have something in common with that school. ND is more of a National University, that happens to be in Indiana. I can't see being invested in a school like ND if you are not Catholic, but it seems that people put all of that aside and root for the Irish, but that is turning a blind eye to what fundamentally makes ND what it is: a National, Catholic University.

I think that it comes down to IU bball has a rich tradition, as does ND in football. Because IU has not had much success in football (although we were good when I was at IU from '86-90), people gravitate to ND. I personally could not root for a university that I have not at least taken a class at, but that is just me.

IU has so much that just grabs you if go to Btown. The campus is just fantastic, it has a great social atmosphere, it is a great school, etc. I don't get people though that are IU fans, but yet never spend significant time in Bloomington? Talk about missing out...

And then there are people in the state of Indiana cheering for Purdue? Well hell, that is just stupid. :)
Posted from Rivals Mobile

This post was edited on 2/27 11:14 PM by HOOSIER JOE
 
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There's a lot more to it than rooted in Catholicism

My son is now at IU but he was invited to check ND out and since it's about 18 miles from home we thought why not. We were listening to a gentleman ( he was a vice president of something or other, I've forgotten that part) speak to us about gaining admission and he mad a statement that basically ended any interest he might have. It went " You might have a 4.0, you might have a perfect SAT, you might write the greatest essay in the history of mankind, that won't necessarily gain you admission to the University of Notre Dame" He went on to say that in your interview "we'll get a feel for if you're ND material".

So, at that point, the "tour" was going to commence and my son looked at my wife and I and said "we've seen this place a hundred times, let's get out of here and have lunch somewhere. I don't know who these people think they are."
 
I'm a huge IU fan and went there, but I also cheer for ND football. There are thousands like me. We are blessed for having two great teams to cheer for, one that's a top school and another where the social scene is the best in Indiana! We have the best of everything, and we have Purdue to kick around.


Go IU . . . and Go ND!
 
I've always found this to be an interesting....

theory. I graduated from IUB in 1971. Since that time I have never met one of these "reversible jacket" types. I did have a friend from SB who was an IU grad and ND football fan, but he was more of an IU FB fan. And he had some family connections to ND, so I really wouldn't call him a reversible jacket. I think this "reversible jacket" thing is a lot of fodder for the pukes (you see it on their FB and BB boards all the time and really nowhere else) who like to combine the two schools they hate the most.
 
I am will gladly admit I am one...


I grew up watching the Lou Holtz coached football teams which was on TV all the time..(IU was not)

Same goes for basketball...family was always IU bball fans and they were always on tv.

I camped at IU and I camped at ND football...

I graduated from Northern Kentucky Univ ....
 
I think that it is funny that many people get angered by this. I grew up in central Indiana and started watching IU basketball in 91-92 because my dad was a big fan. At about the same time I was introduced to ND football by a friend (we both happen to be Catholic) and ended up rooting for both because they were on TV and that's who my dad followed.

I ended up getting my degree from Purdue many years later but never felt compelled to root for them just because I attended the school. I stuck with the teams I had always rooted for and its not as if this time frame (92-present) has been full of great seasons for either school.
 
I grew up a sports fan. I remember watching games on TV when I was 6 years old. ND football was on TV almost every week and when I found out they were from Indiana, I was a fan. I rooted for IU football when they were on TV, but I only remember them being on about 2 or 3 times during my childhood. All of my favorite teams in all sports are still the teams I rooted for before I got to college. I guess I am a bandwagoner. A lot of people I know that are one college team fans weren't really much of a sports fan growing up.
 
I'm one

That definitely applies to me. I grew up in South Bend as a Notre Dame fan, then went to IU. This was due to knowing IU was a great school while being much less costly than ND with much better social life (and it was farther than 10 minutes from my parent's house). In basketball, I root for IU and then ND. I root for IU over ND, but for ND over any other team. In football, I root for ND over IU, but IU over anyone else. This is also absolutely true for a large number or my friends from South Bend that also went to IU. I would add that I'm way more into IU football than I am for ND basketball, but you don't give up your ND fandom when you grew up an ND fan.
This post was edited on 2/28 10:11 AM by moneyfrom20
 
It is real and you hit on may reasons. There is the army.

and the special forces. I'm also a Butler fan that didn't attend Butler, but have a brother-in-law that even after the remodeling still has his pic in the gym and his immediate family of four are Butler grads and fans. There are Indiana fans that never stepped foot in any classes anywhere that are fans just due to the name. Fans come in all shapes and sizes adn there are no requirements to being a fan and so the normal curve is at play with extra sources of variation and excessive variations within the larger fan base population. Good and bad come with larger fan bases...
wink.r191677.gif
 
Actually, there are more Catholics at Purdue than Notre Dame

but the percent of the population of Catholics is greater at Notre Dame. Yes, ND has LOT of money ..a LOT of money and the networking is huge. Daughter went out a couple of times with Mike Golic jr. and had no idea of his family. The place is loaded with money along with many connections and "fitting in" was a concern for my daughter. Had a niece that graduated from NW with honors and not sure the money and connections are near as great there as ND. Not sure what or if she learned at NW...
 
Check out ND Nation's football boards after a loss to

such teams. Makes Crean look like a beloved figure.
 
I grew up in Indiana and I root for ALL Indiana teams.

-IU undergrad
-Ball State grad school
-Uncle works at ND

-When any Indiana team plays another Indiana team in basketball, I do not watch the game. I hate it.
-Infootball, I will root for ND against any other team.

I have been to ND basketball and football games. I have been to IU basketball and football games. I've been to Butler and Valparasio basketball games.

I technically fit into the "reversal jacket" fan club, but I just consider myself a fan of Indiana sports in general.
 
If 20 years ago the same fans chose to instead be an Indiana football fan and Notre Dame basketball fan, would it have really been much different than the alternative? Pretty much the same results.
Posted from Rivals Mobile
 
If ND played in the Big 10 it would usually be a fourth or fifth place team. There would be exceptions, but I don't see them finishing in the top three most seasons. And speaking of schedules, since the invincible Irish play in the vaunted ACC for half of its games it greatly increases its chance of success. I made that comment several seasons before ND made the move to the ACC.
 
indianascout1991 said:
I know that fans of other schools like to propound that the alleged "reversible jacket" phenomenon is true amongst certain Indiana fans, but I just wanted to see what people here might think. As far as I can tell, the perception of other fans suggests that such phenomenon refers to a scenario where one cheers for Indiana in basketball and Notre Dame in football.

I sometimes see posters here who criticize Indiana basketball and its staff, but seem to be affiliated with sites such as Irishillustrated.com, which I believe is a Notre Dame fan site.

I concede that, in any sport, I would definitely cheer for Notre Dame over Purdue, or Kentucky over Purdue, or the Taliban over Purdue. However, I am an Indiana fan, and I would never go out and buy Notre Dame or Kentucky or Taliban gear or label myself as a fan of any of those organizations.

With all of that in mind, I was just wondering, for my own amusement, is there really a significant group of fans out there that would consider themselves as Indiana basketball fans but Notre Dame football fans? If you fall into that crowd, how would you answer the following questions:

- If Indiana plays ND in basketball, I would be for: Indiana or ND
- If Indiana plays ND in football, I would be for: Indiana or ND
- I went to which of the following schools for undergraduate and/or graduate purposes: Indiana or ND

I am just curious.
Click to expand...
* BURP *
 
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indianascout1991 said:
I know that fans of other schools like to propound that the alleged "reversible jacket" phenomenon is true amongst certain Indiana fans, but I just wanted to see what people here might think. As far as I can tell, the perception of other fans suggests that such phenomenon refers to a scenario where one cheers for Indiana in basketball and Notre Dame in football.

I sometimes see posters here who criticize Indiana basketball and its staff, but seem to be affiliated with sites such as Irishillustrated.com, which I believe is a Notre Dame fan site.

I concede that, in any sport, I would definitely cheer for Notre Dame over Purdue, or Kentucky over Purdue, or the Taliban over Purdue. However, I am an Indiana fan, and I would never go out and buy Notre Dame or Kentucky or Taliban gear or label myself as a fan of any of those organizations.

With all of that in mind, I was just wondering, for my own amusement, is there really a significant group of fans out there that would consider themselves as Indiana basketball fans but Notre Dame football fans? If you fall into that crowd, how would you answer the following questions:

- If Indiana plays ND in basketball, I would be for: Indiana or ND
- If Indiana plays ND in football, I would be for: Indiana or ND
- I went to which of the following schools for undergraduate and/or graduate purposes: Indiana or ND

I am just curious.
Click to expand...

IU basketball and ND football were on tv in the 70s and 80s. Indiana residents watched both and largely became fans of both. So yes, they exist. Eventually they’ll die out.
 
indianascout1991 said:
I know that fans of other schools like to propound that the alleged "reversible jacket" phenomenon is true amongst certain Indiana fans, but I just wanted to see what people here might think. As far as I can tell, the perception of other fans suggests that such phenomenon refers to a scenario where one cheers for Indiana in basketball and Notre Dame in football.

I sometimes see posters here who criticize Indiana basketball and its staff, but seem to be affiliated with sites such as Irishillustrated.com, which I believe is a Notre Dame fan site.

I concede that, in any sport, I would definitely cheer for Notre Dame over Purdue, or Kentucky over Purdue, or the Taliban over Purdue. However, I am an Indiana fan, and I would never go out and buy Notre Dame or Kentucky or Taliban gear or label myself as a fan of any of those organizations.

With all of that in mind, I was just wondering, for my own amusement, is there really a significant group of fans out there that would consider themselves as Indiana basketball fans but Notre Dame football fans? If you fall into that crowd, how would you answer the following questions:

- If Indiana plays ND in basketball, I would be for: Indiana or ND
- If Indiana plays ND in football, I would be for: Indiana or ND
- I went to which of the following schools for undergraduate and/or graduate purposes: Indiana or ND

I am just curious.
Click to expand...
I am one, I grew up watching IU basketball on channel 4 and watching ND football. Lived in Indiana my entire life and these are the teams we watched
 
Nothing wrong with supporting ND football as an IU grad. I’d even go as far as to say you’re hardly a real Catholic if you dislike ND football.

However, if you received a bachelors degree from IU and would root for ND over IU in a football game. Well then you’re just not a very good person.
 
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Bloom. said:
It's not a theory. It's real, but here is the main reason why...

Indiana basketball and Notre Dame football likely have more casual fans than any other college teams in the state in their sport. Meaning, they have more fans of people who didn't attend either school or never intended to attend either school. I have two examples. I know a Yale grad who is an avid fan of IU basketball and ND football who would never "stoop" to attend a non-Ivy for actual college. I also know a Butler grad who lived in near Indy, didn't want to be too far from family for elderly grandparent, illness reasons and wanted to be on a small campus.

I went to high school with a number of kids who grew up IU fans, still root for IU but went to Purdue. They wanted majors not offered at IU. I'm sure the flip side exists, but PU and Butler fans seems to get anxious at the idea that someone (such as myself) would/could/should root for IU basketball and ND football.

I don't care enough about college football for this to be a real issue, but I also don't know many IU-Bloomington guys who really cheer for Notre Dame. I'm guessing if they do it's because they have a parent who went to ND or didn't attend either IU or ND and just grew up casual fans.

There aren't many casual PU fans in either sport. There aren't many casual IU football fans. There aren't many casual ND basketball fans. I can't name any Butler football fans who didn't attend Butler, and I'd gather most Butler football fans who attend games after graduating are still connected to the campus through work or children. Casual Butler basketball fans are Indy area fans who love the program, and it's close.

I bet IU gets more athletic donations from people and businesses who have no direct link to IU than Butler does in total athletic donations. A lot of this may change over time should IU get further away from their glory days without revisiting them, but the passion of the fan base is still there and it comes from beyond those with IU diplomas.
Click to expand...

I worked at a family run business in Indy, none of the family members went to IU, who made heavy donations to the AD
 
IU BB
ND FB
IUNW degree
Army vet so would probably root for Army over Taliban. Tough call on that one.
 
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