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Only 30% of Americans support pardons for J6 criminals.

You’re the one who made the inane certification post.
Nothing inane about it. It’s a comparison in how the losers behave. In fact, the outlier for certification of all Presidential elections was J6 2021. Every Republican should feel embarrassment and ensure it never happens again.

I don’t get your interest in trying to downplay the significance. You’re not a Republican. You’re not even MAGA. It’s not like you were in the team.
 
EC was almost the same for the winner. Biden had 306, Trump had 312. Key swing states flipped, but still pretty close.

I ignore COVID protocols because both sides played by the same rules and in the same conditions. Complaining would be like blaming losing a football game on the weather. Both teams played in the same weather.
No ec look at the actual number of votes in contested areas. It was incredibly close in 2020. It’s not the same rules that are the issue it’s new rules and no experience with same
 
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Nothing inane about it. It’s a comparison in how the losers behave. In fact, the outlier for certification of all Presidential elections was J6 2021. Every Republican should feel embarrassment and ensure it never happens again.

I don’t get your interest in trying to downplay the significance. You’re not a Republican. You’re not even MAGA. It’s not like you were in the team.
No it’s the circumstance you ignore. You think a party that lied about material matters to the public wouldn’t do same if there was a question at issue. A knockout vs a close 15 round fight. And as crazed highlighted before it’s not like Dems don’t have a history of this shit with hrc.
 
Lmao. The Dem party lied about the biggest issues facing America. Biden lied about inflation. Harris lied about abortion. Lied about criminals and the border. Together they perpetrated an ongoing fraud on the public with their public claims that he’s not in decline yet had the temerity to immediately change course as tho his decline presented over night.
These are two morally bankrupt parties at the moment. In my view Dems are worse bc they lie about things that impact every American.

You’re just emotionally manipulated by trump. Like a child
You, of all people, calling out someone else’s emotions? Hilarious. If I refer to “the meltdown man” here, everyone knows who I’m talking about.

You should put down your phone, turn off the TV and venture beyond the walls of your apartment. If you’ve got the means, you should get on a plane and go somewhere. Anywhere. You’d probably benefit from a change of scenery. Or, better yet, a job.

Anger and rage are always bubbling just beneath the surface with you, and social media is undoubtedly fueling it. Give it up for a while. That would probably do you a world of good.
 
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You, of all people, calling out someone else’s emotions? Hilarious. If I refer to “the meltdown man” here, everyone knows who I’m talking about.

You should put down your phone, turn off the TV and venture beyond the walls of your apartment. If you’ve got the means, you should get on a plane and go somewhere. Anywhere. You’d probably benefit from a change of scenery. Or, better yet, a job.

Anger and rage are always bubbling just beneath the surface with you, and social media is undoubtedly fueling it. Give it up for a while. That would probably do you a world of good.
I love how I just live in your tiny little head old man. You never contribute here. Never engage with anyone. So angry that everything you predicted and said is wrong.

I joke around. Talking food. Soccer with Lars. But you. Sooooo deeply angry and bitter over your shitty life. And there is nothing you can do about it. Bc you have a horrible personality. And you’re pretty dumb. So you’re just stuck. I told you what you should do in 2025. You should really think about it

Btw your post is all emotions. Hypocritical and dumb. Per usual. Just a triggered lashing out again
 
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J6 four years ago remains a stain on the Republican Party (especially MAGA). The certification this time will be handled as it should be.

Nonsense. Nobody cares, but dorks and shit libs about Jan. 6th. The GOP hasn’t been this strong for two decades. The lasting stain was Bush, which hopefully has been washed away now. The party is MAGA and Bitcoiners now.
 
You, of all people, calling out someone else’s emotions? Hilarious. If I refer to “the meltdown man” here, everyone knows who I’m talking about.

You should put down your phone, turn off the TV and venture beyond the walls of your apartment. If you’ve got the means, you should get on a plane and go somewhere. Anywhere. You’d probably benefit from a change of scenery. Or, better yet, a job.

Anger and rage are always bubbling just beneath the surface with you, and social media is undoubtedly fueling it. Give it up for a while. That would probably do you a world of good.

Don't start.
 
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J6 four years ago remains a stain on the Republican Party (especially MAGA). The certification this time will be handled as it should be.

I've mentioned him a few times here, but Sam Harris really hits the nail on the head with regard to the dangers to our democracy Trump poses and the damage he's already done. I've cut and pasted a part of the transcript of his post mortem election podcast episode called "The Reckoning," but I encourage listening/reading the whole thing. I think sensible people on both sides of the political spectrum will agree with a lot of it.

In terms of offering political commentary, Sam is one of the smartest people out there (Heather Cox Richardson is also really good). I feel like many of us here would agree with what he says in that podcast, but this part about the damage Trump has already done to the country is spot on:


Trump is what you get when 51% of a society just declares bankruptcy on core moral values and political principles and journalistic ethics and necessary institutions. There is no real defense of Trump and Trumpism. All his defenders act like his critics just don't like the man's style. He's just too crass or bombastic. Or they think we're worried about hypothetical things that might never happen. We're worried he might become a fascist in the future. And needless to say, these concerns are telltale signs of Trump derangement syndrome. But none of that is true. The problem with Trump isn't his style, and it's not merely what might happen in the future. The problem is what has already happened. It's the damage that Trump has already caused to our democracy. It's the fact that he has turned the Republican Party into a personality cult that celebrates all this damage as a sign of progress. For instance, while many of us really wanted Kamala Harris to win on Tuesday, we are also breathing a sigh of relief that she didn't win by a very narrow margin.

Why are we relieved about this? Because Trump and Elon and several other high-profile well, freaks, spread so many lies and conspiracy theories about election fraud that they effectively rigged our society to explode. On the day of the vote, Trump and Elon were both spreading lies about a terrible fraud being perpetrated in Pennsylvania. Now that Trump won, where's the concern about fraud? It just evaporated. I guess Elon looked into it and our voting machines are fine now, right? Pay attention to what happened here. These guys imposed a serious risk of injury on our whole society for purely selfish reasons. The fact that we're now relieved to have avoided a civil war is itself an injury to our democracy and to our social order. Is this too ethereal a point to understand? If someone rigs your house to explode and the bomb just happens to not go off for reasons that they didn't actually control. It seems to me that they don't get to say, Well, no harm, no foul. Let's just move on. Let's agree to disagree about what happened here. No. You put our whole democracy at risk with your lies. You knowingly raised the temperature and the pressure on your side of the electorate, again, with lies, and ran the risk of producing serious violence if things had gone the other way.

Honestly, there was a moment on Tuesday night when the tide had fully turned against Harris, when the needle over the New York Times website was giving Trump an 89% probability of winning, but the blue wall states had not been decided. It was still possible at that point for Harris to win. One in 10 chance events happen all the time. But I remember thinking that I hope she doesn't win now. Because at that point, given the optics, given that Republicans really thought they had it in the bag, and that even Democrats seemed to think that and thought that publicly in plain view of everyone on television and social media. If Harris's luck had turned at that point and she had won, we could have had a civil war, given the degree to which conspiracy thinking had been weaponized by Trump and his enablers. Again, even on election day itself, these lies had been spread consciously, deliberately. Elon did this personally to hundreds of millions of people on the social media platform that he owns. Given all of that, honestly, I think it simply wasn't safe for Harris to win a free and fair election at that point.

That is a totally crazy thought to have had on election night in America in the year 2024. Where do we send the bill for the damage that has been done to our country? Half of our society just elected a man to the presidency who they know would not have accepted the results of the election had he lost. Vice President Harris conceded the next day, as everyone knew she would. There is probably no one who supported Trump who thinks that he would have done what they fully expected Harris to do, which is to protect the most important norm of our democracy, the very thing that makes it possible, the peaceful transfer of power. The astonishing thing is that Trump supporters are totally okay with this asymmetry. They expected Harris to concede and would have demanded that she do it, and yet they know Trump wouldn't have conceded if he lost, understanding all the risk this would have posed to our social fabric, and they are fine with that. That is already the ruination of our politics. That is what the path to fascism looks like. We are already on it. There is nothing hypothetical about this. Bad things have already happened, and this It's true whatever happens over the next four years.
 
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And this is the saddest part.
I can't help but notice what you didn’t bold, BITCOIN.

Joining Welcome Home GIF
 
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And this is the saddest part.
I think what I wrote is correct. That Harris Biden have been caught in so many lies, and throw in the some of the silly lawsuits against trump, and the meat of Jan 6 is lost. I think rational people know trump tried to cheat. It’s now just lost in they’re all shitty amoral liars. Let’s look at policy. F it
 
I love how I just live in your tiny little head old man. You never contribute here. Never engage with anyone. So angry that everything you predicted and said is wrong.

I joke around. Talking food. Soccer with Lars. But you. Sooooo deeply angry and bitter over your shitty life. And there is nothing you can do about it. Bc you have a horrible personality. And you’re pretty dumb. So you’re just stuck. I told you what you should do in 2025. You should really think about it

Btw your post is all emotions. Hypocritical and dumb. Per usual. Just a triggered lashing out again
You’re older than me. And you’re a mess. Your big thing (aside from frequent meltdowns) is projection.

Put down the phone. Step away from social media and the brain rot it’s causing. Interact with people face-to-face. You’ll feel so much better and you’ll thank me for it.
 
I ignore COVID protocols because both sides played by the same rules and in the same conditions. Complaining would be like blaming losing a football game on the weather. Both teams played in the same weather.
This is incredibly naive. There was no way the run up to the 2020 election was the same for both sides. The media, the social media, the deep state, all had their thumbs on the scale in support of the Democrats. And they were so arrogant they didn’t even try to hide it.
 
You’re older than me. And you’re a mess. Your big thing (aside from frequent meltdowns) is projection.

Put down the phone. Step away from social media and the brain rot it’s causing. Interact with people face-to-face. You’ll feel so much better and you’ll thank me for it.
I’m not older than you you angry old man. 2025. Do what you need to do. You won’t be missed. You’re miserable. It’s time. We all see how unhappy you are. You can’t have fun. Just do it. Stop your misery
 
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I’m not older than you you angry old man. 2025. Do what you need to do. You won’t be missed. You’re miserable. It’s time. We all see how unhappy you are. You can’t have fun. Just do it. Stop your misery
Be easy on him and Gilligan. Their new nails are still wet.
 
The difference is how the losing side has responded.
The difference is how the prevailing side won.

The Democrats won 2020 based upon hoaxes, lies, media manipulation, and Covid election leniency.

The Republicans won in 24 because the Democrats overplayed their hand and the hoaxes, lies, manipulation, and election lenience were exposed and corrected.
 
The difference is how the prevailing side won.

The Democrats won 2020 based upon hoaxes, lies, media manipulation, and Covid election leniency.

The Republicans won in 24 because the Democrats overplayed their hand and the hoaxes, lies, manipulation, and election lenience were exposed and corrected.
I think you're just trolling now. If anything, COVID impacted both elections. Trump's ineptitude to effectively deal with it likely cost him and Harris was viewed as an incumbent and at least in part dealing with the fallout of COVID disruption on the economy likely cost her (similar to how most incumbents in elections around the world fared).

And the 'hoaxes' and 'lies' you're talking about were either thrown out or lost in court.
 
This is incredibly naive. There was no way the run up to the 2020 election was the same for both sides. The media, the social media, the deep state, all had their thumbs on the scale in support of the Democrats. And they were so arrogant they didn’t even try to hide it.
Uh, that has nothing to do with the election protocols and rules due to COVID.

Much of the mainstream media has been biased towards Democrats for decades. We’ve known that, but it struck no terror in the hearts of most Republicans. We’ve known that just dealt with it and have won the Presidency and control of Congress on many occasions. Trump didn’t lose the 2020 election due to voter fraud or the media, he just plain lost. The man was deeply unpopular, the economy during COVID wasn’t good and there was some Trump chaos fatigue. It would have been a miracle if he had won. The result was no surprise to anyone with some brain cells who didn’t get every bit of (dis)information and opinions from Trumpster Twitter Twits. In fact, Trump’s lies and behavior after he lost were also completely predictable. He telegraphed it all.
 
Be easy on him and Gilligan. Their new nails are still wet.
On who? Their? Is there more than one I need to be easy on? Homie doesn’t play the silly pronoun game and they, them and their are plural, not singular.

Don’t call me Gilligan. I have lost all respect for the guy that does that. I still have some for you and I’d rather not lose it.
 
The difference is how the prevailing side won.

The Democrats won 2020 based upon hoaxes, lies, media manipulation, and Covid election leniency.

The Republicans won in 24 because the Democrats overplayed their hand and the hoaxes, lies, manipulation, and election lenience were exposed and corrected.
No, they won in 2020 because they got the most votes and won the most states.

They lost in 2020 because Trump and Republicans got the most votes and won the most states.

The biggest difference now is how the losers behaved. I’d love to say Republicans behaved well, but that would be a lie.
 
Be easy on him and Gilligan. Their new nails are still wet.

Those here who predicted lefty violence if Trump won the election have struck out so far.
Again why? What would be the basis? It wasn’t close. You think the left is above violence? Did you forget the summer of love?

It was a knockout not a decision. If it had been close who knows
 
Again why? What would be the basis? It wasn’t close. You think the left is above violence? Did you forget the summer of love?

It was a knockout not a decision. If it had been close who knows
Trump lost definitively. There was NO doubt. None. There have been closer elections in history and the losers never behaved like the loser and losers of 2020. Never. This is the point which you just don’t want to face. Again, I don’t understand why you’re desperate to minimize the actions of Trump and the J6 criminals.
 
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Trump lost definitively. There was NO doubt. None. There have been closer elections in history and the losers never behaved like the loser and losers of 2020. Never. This is the point which you just don’t want to face. Again, I don’t understand why you’re desperate to minimize the actions of Trump and the J6 criminals.
Not definitively at all. You’re so emotionally charged with trump you can’t see it. 44,000 votes and trump would have tied Biden. You think that’s definitive? I don’t understand why you’re so desperate to disregard all the Dems have done while incessantly attacking trump - the clear choice of the American people

And again 2020 was incredibly tight. 24 wasn’t. What is there to protest
 
Trump's ineptitude to effectively deal with it likely cost
That’s true and is part of the greatest 2020 hoax. Short of declaring national Marshall law, the President has zero authority to deal with a pandemic emergency except through dishing out benefits authorized by Congress. The emergency measures are 100% in the hands of governors. You can look it up.

Thanks to media narratives, the failed emergency response was deliberately put in Trumps lap.
 
No, they won in 2020 because they got the most votes and won the most states.

They lost in 2020 because Trump and Republicans got the most votes and won the most states.

The biggest difference now is how the losers behaved. I’d love to say Republicans behaved well, but that would be a lie.
So post election behavior is more important than pre-election behavior? I’ll never agree with this.
 
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Uh, that has nothing to do with the election protocols and rules due to COVID.

Much of the mainstream media has been biased towards Democrats for decades. We’ve known that, but it struck no terror in the hearts of most Republicans. We’ve known that just dealt with it and have won the Presidency and control of Congress on many occasions. Trump didn’t lose the 2020 election due to voter fraud or the media, he just plain lost. The man was deeply unpopular, the economy during COVID wasn’t good and there was some Trump chaos fatigue. It would have been a miracle if he had won. The result was no surprise to anyone with some brain cells who didn’t get every bit of (dis)information and opinions from Trumpster Twitter Twits. In fact, Trump’s lies and behavior after he lost were also completely predictable. He telegraphed it all.
Trump hasn’t changed. What changed to allow him to win? The coalition was pretty impressive
 
If Trump said Bitcoin sucks and is for fools and Harris said Bitcoin is awesome and pledged to get the US into Bitcoin big time, would you be all in on Harris? 😉
I would vote for Harris then. However, Bitcoin promotes freedom, liberty, and smaller government. All things statists like Harris are against. There is a reason the Democratic party hasn't embraced Bitcoin, they're socialists. Bitcoin ends socialism and centralization.
 
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I would vote for Harris then. However, Bitcoin promotes freedom, liberty, and smaller government. All things statists like Harris are against. There is a reason the Democratic party hasn't embraced Bitcoin, they're socialists. Bitcoin ends socialism and centralization.
It’s why big pharma hates it. No one with bitcoin takes anti depressants
 
I've mentioned him a few times here, but Sam Harris really hits the nail on the head with regard to the dangers to our democracy Trump poses and the damage he's already done. I've cut and pasted a part of the transcript of his post mortem election podcast episode called "The Reckoning," but I encourage listening/reading the whole thing. I think sensible people on both sides of the political spectrum will agree with a lot of it.

In terms of offering political commentary, Sam is one of the smartest people out there (Heather Cox Richardson is also really good). I feel like many of us here would agree with what he says in that podcast, but this part about the damage Trump has already done to the country is spot on:


Trump is what you get when 51% of a society just declares bankruptcy on core moral values and political principles and journalistic ethics and necessary institutions. There is no real defense of Trump and Trumpism. All his defenders act like his critics just don't like the man's style. He's just too crass or bombastic. Or they think we're worried about hypothetical things that might never happen. We're worried he might become a fascist in the future. And needless to say, these concerns are telltale signs of Trump derangement syndrome. But none of that is true. The problem with Trump isn't his style, and it's not merely what might happen in the future. The problem is what has already happened. It's the damage that Trump has already caused to our democracy. It's the fact that he has turned the Republican Party into a personality cult that celebrates all this damage as a sign of progress. For instance, while many of us really wanted Kamala Harris to win on Tuesday, we are also breathing a sigh of relief that she didn't win by a very narrow margin.

Why are we relieved about this? Because Trump and Elon and several other high-profile well, freaks, spread so many lies and conspiracy theories about election fraud that they effectively rigged our society to explode. On the day of the vote, Trump and Elon were both spreading lies about a terrible fraud being perpetrated in Pennsylvania. Now that Trump won, where's the concern about fraud? It just evaporated. I guess Elon looked into it and our voting machines are fine now, right? Pay attention to what happened here. These guys imposed a serious risk of injury on our whole society for purely selfish reasons. The fact that we're now relieved to have avoided a civil war is itself an injury to our democracy and to our social order. Is this too ethereal a point to understand? If someone rigs your house to explode and the bomb just happens to not go off for reasons that they didn't actually control. It seems to me that they don't get to say, Well, no harm, no foul. Let's just move on. Let's agree to disagree about what happened here. No. You put our whole democracy at risk with your lies. You knowingly raised the temperature and the pressure on your side of the electorate, again, with lies, and ran the risk of producing serious violence if things had gone the other way.

Honestly, there was a moment on Tuesday night when the tide had fully turned against Harris, when the needle over the New York Times website was giving Trump an 89% probability of winning, but the blue wall states had not been decided. It was still possible at that point for Harris to win. One in 10 chance events happen all the time. But I remember thinking that I hope she doesn't win now. Because at that point, given the optics, given that Republicans really thought they had it in the bag, and that even Democrats seemed to think that and thought that publicly in plain view of everyone on television and social media. If Harris's luck had turned at that point and she had won, we could have had a civil war, given the degree to which conspiracy thinking had been weaponized by Trump and his enablers. Again, even on election day itself, these lies had been spread consciously, deliberately. Elon did this personally to hundreds of millions of people on the social media platform that he owns. Given all of that, honestly, I think it simply wasn't safe for Harris to win a free and fair election at that point.

That is a totally crazy thought to have had on election night in America in the year 2024. Where do we send the bill for the damage that has been done to our country? Half of our society just elected a man to the presidency who they know would not have accepted the results of the election had he lost. Vice President Harris conceded the next day, as everyone knew she would. There is probably no one who supported Trump who thinks that he would have done what they fully expected Harris to do, which is to protect the most important norm of our democracy, the very thing that makes it possible, the peaceful transfer of power. The astonishing thing is that Trump supporters are totally okay with this asymmetry. They expected Harris to concede and would have demanded that she do it, and yet they know Trump wouldn't have conceded if he lost, understanding all the risk this would have posed to our social fabric, and they are fine with that. That is already the ruination of our politics. That is what the path to fascism looks like. We are already on it. There is nothing hypothetical about this. Bad things have already happened, and this It's true whatever happens over the next four years.

I’m a fan of Sam Harris, and he is spot on here. Thanks for posting this.
 
I’m a fan of Sam Harris, and he is spot on here. Thanks for posting this.
There is a lot of bluster and hyperbole from both sides when it comes to Trump, but I think as with most things, Sam is reasoned and fair in his assessment of Trump and his impact on the country. Politics isn't his whole schtick -and at the end of the podcast I linked he talked about not being reactionary to everything Trump does - but I appreciate his voice of reason.
 
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That’s true and is part of the greatest 2020 hoax. Short of declaring national Marshall law, the President has zero authority to deal with a pandemic emergency except through dishing out benefits authorized by Congress. The emergency measures are 100% in the hands of governors. You can look it up.

Thanks to media narratives, the failed emergency response was deliberately put in Trumps lap.
I don't think your last point is entirely true, though there is some truth to Trump getting some of blame for the impact of COVID recovery. Right or wrong, inflation that followed much of the financial recovery efforts fell squarely on Biden/Harris.
 
So post election behavior is more important than pre-election behavior? I’ll never agree with this.
Oh, his pre-election behavior was appalling in both of these elections. He telegraphed that he was going to claim voter fraud in 2020 and again in 2024. If he had lost we’d be in the midst of it again. Likely would have had huge protests today. Dbm and his Twitter Twits would be screaming about voter fraud without evidence yet again. It would be a mess.
 
I would vote for Harris then. However, Bitcoin promotes freedom, liberty, and smaller government. All things statists like Harris are against. There is a reason the Democratic party hasn't embraced Bitcoin, they're socialists. Bitcoin ends socialism and centralization.
They’re magical! 😄
 
Oh, his pre-election behavior was appalling i
Your standard for “appalling” is different from mine.

The 51 intelligence officials was appalling.

Hiding Biden’s feeble- mindedness is appalling.

Both were intended to influence voters through lies and deception.

Trumps voter fraud claims, and the speculative fraud claims you described are essentially both nothinburgers.
 
Your standard for “appalling” is different from mine.

The 51 intelligence officials was appalling.

Hiding Biden’s feeble- mindedness is appalling.

Both were intended to influence voters through lies and deception.

Trumps voter fraud claims, and the speculative fraud claims you described are essentially both nothinburgers.
We’re not going to agree at all. On issues we agree on 90+ percent easily, but we’ll never agree on Trump. I think he’s done lasting damage to faith in our elections and to our party - especially our party’s culture. I’ll be happy when he’s out of office and no longer has any influence on the party.
 
We’re not going to agree at all. On issues we agree on 90+ percent easily, but we’ll never agree on Trump. I think he’s done lasting damage to faith in our elections and to our party - especially our party’s culture. I’ll be happy when he’s out of office and no longer has any influence on the party.
The Dems actions have sanitized trump. From the false narrative that surrounded the summer of love and the rioting and destruction, to defund and bail projects, to the divisive rhetoric of Biden and Harris and Hitler associations, to the lies surrounding the border and inflation and Biden’s health the idea that trump is so bad just doesn’t move people. Is trump bad? Of course. Yes! But so is this batch of Dems. Playing the comparison game of who is worse just invites predictable tribalism. In some ways it’s a positive. The bad actors canceled each other out and the election was based on policies
 
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No twisting necessary. Facts speak for themselves. You’re not really a Republican but I personally felt shame and embarrassment on J6 2021.

Also, no Trump voter should ever call any other politician a serial liar. He’s the most prolific liar ever elected President. Passed Bill Clinton in that regard as if Bill was parked on a highway and Trump was an Audi RS5.
Why’d you choose a girl’s car for your analogy?
 
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