McConnell is destructive to democracy

[Marvin the Martian]

I disagree. Acting as a cohesive block is the Democrats' best chance to positively influence policy given Trump and Trumpism are driving the Presidency and the Senate. In any case, there are no Republicans who are going to behave in a bipartisan manner in the house.

There may not be any Republicans willing to work across the lines, I have no idea if that is true or not. But it is a horrible precedent to set. The GOP started that route and now refuse to give it up. If the Democrats start down that path, they likewise won't give it up even if the Republicans gain the sense God gave them.

Everything is being created to foster a hard right or a hard left attitude. Politically, I agree with the progressive wing. But I can't sign onto some dotted "progressives uber alles" line. I cannot mathematically prove our answers are correct. Given that, if a center coalition of moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans can build a base around something I don't feel the need to create artificial barriers to their success.

 

[iu_a_att]

There may not be any Republicans willing to work across the lines, I have no idea if that is true or not. But it is a horrible precedent to set. The GOP started that route and now refuse to give it up. If the Democrats start down that path, they likewise won't give it up even if the Republicans gain the sense God gave them.

Everything is being created to foster a hard right or a hard left attitude. Politically, I agree with the progressive wing. But I can't sign onto some dotted "progressives uber alles" line. I cannot mathematically prove our answers are correct. Given that, if a center coalition of moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans can build a base around something I don't feel the need to create artificial barriers to their success.

I disagree that "everything is being created to foster a hard right or hard left attitude". The median Democrat is actually quite centrist (data below). The membership in the house is grossly distorted by the impacts of gerrymandering and vote suppression. The median Democrat in the house is actually quite representative of the actual American public.

Take a look at this. https://voteview.com/congress/senate/-1/text
Here are the median voters in the Democratic party. They don't look like radicals to me.
89. LOFGREN, Zoe Democrat California -0.402
90. VISCLOSKY, Peter Democrat Indiana -0.402
91. DEUTCH, Theodore E. (Ted) Democrat Florida -0.401
92. COHEN, Stephen Democrat Tennessee -0.401
93. LARSON, John B. Democrat Connecticut -0.399
94. VARGAS, Juan Democrat California -0.396
95. THOMPSON, Michael Democrat California -0.396
96. TSONGAS, Nicola S. (Niki) Democrat Massachusetts -0.396
97. CASTRO, Joaquin Democrat Texas -0.395
98. BOYLE, Brendan Francis Democrat Pennsylvania -0.395
99. MCEACHIN, Aston Donald Democrat Virginia -0.395
100. KILDEE, Dan Democrat Michigan -0.394
101. KIHUEN, Ruben Jesus Democrat Nevada -0.394
102. BEYER, Donald Sternoff Jr. Democrat Virginia -0.393
103. BONAMICI, Suzanne Democrat Oregon -0.393
104. SEWELL, Terri Democrat Alabama -0.39
105. CICILLINE, David N. Democrat Rhode Island -0.39
106. LOWEY, Nita M. Democrat New York -0.389
107. MALONEY, Carolyn Bosher Democrat New York -0.387
108. SPEIER, Karen Lorraine Jacqueline (Jackie) Democrat California -0.383
109. SOTO, Darren Michael Democrat Florida -0.383
110. ESHOO, Anna Georges Democrat California -0.381

In contrast, here are the median voters in the Republican party. They include far right types like Duncan Hunter and Liz Cheney.
329. HUNTER, Duncan Duane Republican California 0.513
330. POSEY, Bill Republican Florida 0.513
331. BLUM, Rod Republican Iowa 0.515
332. STEWART, Chris Republican Utah 0.517
333. BRADY, Kevin Patrick Republican Texas 0.518
334. LATTA, Robert E. Republican Ohio 0.52
335. JENKINS, Lynn Republican Kansas 0.523
336. THORNBERRY, William McClellan (Mac) Republican Texas 0.527
337. CHENEY, Liz Republican Wyoming 0.527
338. WALBERG, Tim Republican Michigan 0.528
339. BARTON, Joe Linus Republican Texas 0.528
340. HIGGINS, Clay Republican Louisiana 0.528
341. ROSS, Dennis Republican Florida 0.53
342. FERGUSON, Anderson Drew IV Republican Georgia 0.53
343. BISHOP, Robert (Rob) Republican Utah 0.531
344. OLSON, Pete Republican Texas 0.54
345. GALLAGHER, Michael Republican Wisconsin 0.54
346. LOVE, Ludmya Bourdeau (Mia)

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I disagree that "everything is being created to foster a hard right or hard left attitude". The median Democrat is actually quite centrist (data below). The membership in the house is grossly distorted by the impacts of gerrymandering and vote suppression. The median Democrat in the house is actually quite representative of the actual American public.

Take a look at this. https://voteview.com/congress/senate/-1/text
Here are the median voters in the Democratic party. They don't look like radicals to me.
89. LOFGREN, Zoe Democrat California -0.402
90. VISCLOSKY, Peter Democrat Indiana -0.402
91. DEUTCH, Theodore E. (Ted) Democrat Florida -0.401
92. COHEN, Stephen Democrat Tennessee -0.401
93. LARSON, John B. Democrat Connecticut -0.399
94. VARGAS, Juan Democrat California -0.396
95. THOMPSON, Michael Democrat California -0.396
96. TSONGAS, Nicola S. (Niki) Democrat Massachusetts -0.396
97. CASTRO, Joaquin Democrat Texas -0.395
98. BOYLE, Brendan Francis Democrat Pennsylvania -0.395
99. MCEACHIN, Aston Donald Democrat Virginia -0.395
100. KILDEE, Dan Democrat Michigan -0.394
101. KIHUEN, Ruben Jesus Democrat Nevada -0.394
102. BEYER, Donald Sternoff Jr. Democrat Virginia -0.393
103. BONAMICI, Suzanne Democrat Oregon -0.393
104. SEWELL, Terri Democrat Alabama -0.39
105. CICILLINE, David N. Democrat Rhode Island -0.39
106. LOWEY, Nita M. Democrat New York -0.389
107. MALONEY, Carolyn Bosher Democrat New York -0.387
108. SPEIER, Karen Lorraine Jacqueline (Jackie) Democrat California -0.383
109. SOTO, Darren Michael Democrat Florida -0.383
110. ESHOO, Anna Georges Democrat California -0.381

In contrast, here are the median voters in the Republican party. They include far right types like Duncan Hunter and Liz Cheney.
329. HUNTER, Duncan Duane Republican California 0.513
330. POSEY, Bill Republican Florida 0.513
331. BLUM, Rod Republican Iowa 0.515
332. STEWART, Chris Republican Utah 0.517
333. BRADY, Kevin Patrick Republican Texas 0.518
334. LATTA, Robert E. Republican Ohio 0.52
335. JENKINS, Lynn Republican Kansas 0.523
336. THORNBERRY, William McClellan (Mac) Republican Texas 0.527
337. CHENEY, Liz Republican Wyoming 0.527
338. WALBERG, Tim Republican Michigan 0.528
339. BARTON, Joe Linus Republican Texas 0.528
340. HIGGINS, Clay Republican Louisiana 0.528
341. ROSS, Dennis Republican Florida 0.53
342. FERGUSON, Anderson Drew IV Republican Georgia 0.53
343. BISHOP, Robert (Rob) Republican Utah 0.531
344. OLSON, Pete Republican Texas 0.54
345. GALLAGHER, Michael Republican Wisconsin 0.54
346. LOVE, Ludmya Bourdeau (Mia)

Take a look at those median Democrats, which will hold positions of power in the House starting in 2019? Whenever moderate Democrats announce for President, our board's conservatives get excited. But we know they cannot win. Just as a moderate Republican won't win.

Here is where the system falls apart, primaries. In the current system the left vote D and the R vote R. Makes sense. That squishy middle can vote D or R. The result is that the candidates winning primaries tend to be further left or further right than the nation as a whole. Let's say 1 is staunch conservative and 100 is true progressive. If we assume 1-50 vote GOP, and 51-100 vote Democratic, the candidates for election will be a 25 and a 75. Neither 25 nor 75 are very middle.

Now the two parties don't exactly split down the middle, and it is probably true that the middle is less likely to be involved because partisans are generally more motivated. But that stretches us out further. If the people from 40-60 aren't voting in large numbers, we are nominating people at 20 and 80 on the right-left scale. That's pretty far removed from the 50.

I say that as someone who has no problem voting for the 80.

The people who stay in power the longest are from districts heavily infested with partisans from one side or the other. They gain seniority and they gain power. that's why there is a Hastert rule, to slap down those youngsters and their newfound ideas of working across the aisle. I believe without the Hastert rule we would have had a DACA bill pass the House. It may have died in the Senate, it may have been vetoed. But passing the House would have put huge pressure on the Senate to do something.

Simply put, I am a small letter democrat. Unlike some of our conservative friends, I think largely the people will get things right (current occupant of 1600 aside). Allowing 50%+1 of one party to kill legislation is unsmall letter democratic. We don't gain by thwarting the will of the people (except in cases of civil rights where the people don't get to determine who gets protections and who does not). We just make the people more frustrated that nothing is getting done.

I want the 80 to win. I just want the 50, and even the 40, to feel they are being heard. We know the 20 is being heard, they are spending billions to be heard.

 

[MrBing]

I read a book on the House Committee on the Conduct of the War that was very interesting. At the time of the Civil War, there was no concept of seniority in the House. Most of the rules we have now did not exist, the House was far less top down.

My biggest hope if the Democrats do not elect to have their own Hastert Rule. I find the concept abhorrent to proper governance.

I completely agree with all of that.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I completely agree with all of that.

You should not have. I was wrong, it was a Joint not House committee on the war. My desire to answer quickly has shamed me into being wrong even when I knew better.

 

[MrBing]

You should not have. I was wrong, it was a Joint not House committee on the war. My desire to answer quickly has shamed me into being wrong even when I knew better.

No I agreed with this: My biggest hope if the Democrats do not elect to have their own Hastert Rule. I find the concept abhorrent to proper governance.

I still agree with that.