Masculinity is not toxic--It is okay for boys to be boys

[zeke4ahs]

Finally read the piece, but I still don’t get the issue. I’m not surprised at what it says. What I am surprised at continues to be people that don’t think there is a difference in masculinity and toxic masculinity.

 

[SSB]

Doesn't context have some bearing? I'm really not sure of the context that CO is referring to with his statement since the phrase was only muttered at the beginning of the commercial along with catch phrases. To me, that means it is masculinity that is toxic, not all masculinity is toxic.

There are undoubtedly people that have used the phrase to mean the latter, but I don't believe that is the typical context.

There are undoubtedly people that think the Earth is flat but I think we would agree it is rare. This seems simple too me. Some behaviors (typically male) are being criticized and as is normal some men see it as an attack on men in general. It’s stupid but it’s what humans do.

 

[hoosboot]

Right. Street gangs, cartels, and violent felons are all conservatives. Lol.

Wait...are you now saying that street gangs, cartels, and violent felons DO exhibit "toxic masculinity" after previously insisting that toxic masculinity didn't exist? Or are you saying that street gangs, cartels, and violent felons are just better examples of masculinity that is wrongly identified as "toxic masculinity"?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Finally read the piece, but I still don’t get the issue. I’m not surprised at what it says. What I am surprised at continues to be people that don’t think there is a difference in masculinity and toxic masculinity.

No one thinks that. The issue is lecturing ALL men on the faults of some and why it’s ok to generalize on this issue but verboten on so many others.

And judging from the overwhelmingly negative response to the ad, there are many who feel the same way.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

No one thinks that. The issue is lecturing ALL men on the faults of some and why it’s ok to generalize on this issue but verboten on so many others.

And judging from the overwhelmingly negative response to the ad, there are many who feel the same way.

Why do you think it is lecturing "ALL men"? Being male, I never thought it was lecturing me.

Were the old "it is 10 pm, parents do you know where your children are" PSAs lecturing all parents? Same for attempts to get parents to discuss sex with their children? Are adds suggesting parents eat dinner with their children lecturing all patents? Ads suggesting parents emphasize school to their kids?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

There are undoubtedly people that think the Earth is flat but I think we would agree it is rare. This seems simple too me. Some behaviors (typically male) are being criticized and as is normal some men see it as an attack on men in general. It’s stupid but it’s what humans do.

There's a difference between attacking certain behaviors and all behaviors (grilling, drinking beer, etc)

 

[zeke4ahs]

Finally read the piece, but I still don’t get the issue. I’m not surprised at what it says. What I am surprised at continues to be people that don’t think there is a difference in masculinity and toxic masculinity.

No one thinks that. The issue is lecturing ALL men on the faults of some and why it’s ok to generalize on this issue but verboten on so many others.

And judging from the overwhelmingly negative response to the ad, there are many who feel the same way.

Man, I’m so tired of this PC world where everyone gets offended so easily.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Why do you think it is lecturing "ALL men"? Being male, I never thought it was lecturing me.

Were the old "it is 10 pm, parents do you know where your children are" PSAs lecturing all parents? Same for attempts to get parents to discuss sex with their children? Are adds suggesting parents eat dinner with their children lecturing all patents? Ads suggesting parents emphasize school to their kids?

I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. Watch the coke ad and the Gillette ad back to back. If you don’t see the difference there is nothing more I can say. We have come to the point in public discourse that people don’t see any problem with making a legitimate point through disparaging others. That is unnecessary and destructive.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. Watch the coke ad and the Gillette ad back to back. If you don’t see the difference there is nothing more I can say. We have come to the point in public discourse that people don’t see any problem with making a legitimate point through disparaging others. That is unnecessary and destructive.

Again, did "Parents, do you know where your children are" disparage ALL parents? Or just those who had no clue where their children were?

 

[hoosboot]

I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. Watch the coke ad and the Gillette ad back to back. If you don’t see the difference there is nothing more I can say. We have come to the point in public discourse that people don’t see any problem with making a legitimate point through disparaging others. That is unnecessary and destructive.

I just think that the good Muslims aren't doing enough to get rid of the bad Muslims in their midst.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Why do you think it is lecturing "ALL men"? Being male, I never thought it was lecturing me.

Were the old "it is 10 pm, parents do you know where your children are" PSAs lecturing all parents? Same for attempts to get parents to discuss sex with their children? Are adds suggesting parents eat dinner with their children lecturing all patents? Ads suggesting parents emphasize school to their kids?

So, now that we are into our 2nd thread on this seemingly simple topic, I don't get why this is SO hard to understand. I watched the ad. I was not offended. I just thought it was calling out the jerks for being jerks, and encouraging the non-jerks to maybe say/do something about the jerks when they are doing/saying something jerky.
Is there a special "director's cut" of the commercial I missed which is causing some posters here to go nuts?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. Watch the coke ad and the Gillette ad back to back. If you don’t see the difference there is nothing more I can say. We have come to the point in public discourse that people don’t see any problem with making a legitimate point through disparaging others. That is unnecessary and destructive.

I guess we are talking past each other. I have no issues with the Coke ad, it is a bit cheesy but its message is fine. It may be the better ad. But that in no way means Gillette is pointing a finger at CO. Hoosier and saying "this person is a male and thus is evil pond scum" which seems to be what the detractors are saying. I'm not arguing which ad is better, I am just saying Gillette's focus is probably not you nor most males. But there is a subset of males it is targeting.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

So, now that we are into our 2nd thread on this seemingly simple topic, I don't get why this is SO hard to understand. I watched the ad. I was not offended. I just thought it was calling out the jerks for being jerks, and encouraging the non-jerks to maybe say/do something about the jerks when they are doing/saying something jerky.
Is there a special "director's cut" of the commercial I missed which is causing some posters here to go nuts?

I wasn’t offended either. So we agree on that. I just don’t like the ad, as I’ve said, cuz I don’t think even “calling out jerks” is an effective way to tell all of us not to be jerks.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I wasn’t offended either. So we agree on that. I just don’t like the ad, as I’ve said, cuz I don’t think even “calling out jerks” is an effective way to tell all of us not to be jerks.

Lots of ads I don't like. I certainly haven't posted multiple times about them.
My advice to you would be to not support the product and turn the channel when the commercial comes on. Much more than that (like starting a whole new thread about it) certainly looks like "offense" being taken by someone who has been triggered...by a commercial of all things.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

But there is a subset of males it is targeting.

That’s the issue. In my view the ad shouldn’t “target” anybody. Routine targeting is a problem throughout life these days and it’s getting worse. I don’t think that is good. In this case, the target is suspect in its validity and how it’s presented anyway

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Lots of ads I don't like. I certainly haven't posted multiple times about them.
My advice to you would be to not support the product and turn the channel when the commercial comes on. Much more than that (like starting a whole new thread about it) certainly looks like "offense" being taken by someone who has been triggered...by a commercial of all things.

I think the issues I’ve tried to bring up are much larger than the ad. Targeting others with disparaging comments and images in my view are contra to a civil society. Targeting is ubiquitous.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

I think the issues I’ve tried to bring up are much larger than the ad. Targeting others with disparaging comments and images in my view are contra to a civil society. Targeting ubiquitous.

Before you changed "targetis ubiquitous" to "targeting ubiquitous", I thought you were throwing out some badass Latin lawyer term to shut me up.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Before you changed "targetis ubiquitous" to "targeting ubiquitous", I thought you were throwing out some badass Latin lawyer term to shut me up.

Whatever works.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Whatever works.

Touché.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

So, now that we are into our 2nd thread on this seemingly simple topic, I don't get why this is SO hard to understand. I watched the ad. I was not offended. I just thought it was calling out the jerks for being jerks, and encouraging the non-jerks to maybe say/do something about the jerks when they are doing/saying something jerky.
Is there a special "director's cut" of the commercial I missed which is causing some posters here to go nuts?

No.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

I guess we are talking past each other. I have no issues with the Coke ad, it is a bit cheesy but its message is fine. It may be the better ad. But that in no way means Gillette is pointing a finger at CO. Hoosier and saying "this person is a male and thus is evil pond scum" which seems to be what the detractors are saying. I'm not arguing which ad is better, I am just saying Gillette's focus is probably not you nor most males. But there is a subset of males it is targeting.

I'm surprised that several days later you still need to explain what was patently obvious to most of us the first time we watched the ad.