But, shouldn't they be working out their differences in private rather than going public?
Maybe they are like Judge Judy who is used to being the final decider and says, "My opinion is the only one that counts".
MAGA Coalition Falling Apart
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But, shouldn't they be working out their differences in private rather than going public?
Maybe they are like Judge Judy who is used to being the final decider and says, "My opinion is the only one that counts".
They’re government employees. And that’s the meaningful distinction here - so as to contrast the public sector from the private sector.
Normally, that’s what would happen.
But I prefer them doing it in public. Strongly prefer it, really. After all, they’re discussing public policy, not private policy.
And I will add to my post. Dems have lost these people. When you look at the EC the country is all red with pockets of blue and the coast. You can have a deep blue city run by progressives like Stl. A state where all the cities go blue but the state goes red. That’s an EC loss. They don’t care about trannies and the climate. Trump tapped into what they do care about. And as long as Dems pitch Newsom Pritzker and AOC as the voice of the party they’ve got a lot of losing in front of them
No.
The government shouldn’t be designing those policies is the answer.
I agree, which is why a debt based monetary system is not compatible with capitalism. We’re living in a control system that will only continue to centralize as things get worse. People will incorrectly diagnose the problem and will vote for their own demise, more government. It’s why Europe is a shit show now.
The answer is separation of state from money, which would allow for the benefits of free markets to flow to everyone. The natural state of a free market is deflation. All we have to do is let it happen.
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My last assignment was to a DoD institute which provided training, education and consultation to government civilians, military, international military and civilians, and some to industry. The last two had to pay all costs. It was 90 percent. When I became a Deputy to the boss (a civilian) I became extensively involved with all civilian matters like hiring, appraisals, firing, etc. Also, I had civilians and military that worked for me. Lots of what people think about government workers is wrong. When a person enters government service, they earn 4 hours of leave per pay period (two weeks) which means they need to work 20 weeks to have enough for 5 days off. Many have to take unpaid time off initially to settle in at home so they’re not living large on paid leave. It takes several years to start earning 6 hours per pay period and 15 to get to 8. Earning it is a right using it isn’t. Usually they’d get it approved but when it made sense.
As far as firing poor performers, it’s a myth that it can’t be done or that it’s too hard. First thing is their first year is probationary. If they’re not cutting it satisfactorily they can simply be sent home at the end of the first year. There’s a bit of documentation required from the supervisor, but it’s not onerous at all. We hired good people so we only had to do this twice during my time. You can fire an employee essentially immediately for misconduct and it generally takes 90 days to six months for poor performance, because there is a requirement to document and communicate poor performance to the employee and work a plan with them to improve within 90 days, which can be extended if supervisor likes progress and sees hope for the employee to turn it around completely, but employee will be fired if he doesn’t meet the goals. Of course, the employee can quit if he sees the writing on the wall. We did this once while I was there and the person resigned rather than be fired. The myth about not being able to fire employees comes from those supervisors unwilling to do their part (if they worked for me, I’d likely start the process for them!) and there are more steps for those in unions. None of ours were union.
Benefits aren’t terrible for them in that insurance is probably cheaper than in most private sector jobs. There aren’t other benefits of significance I can think of rather than the ability to invest in TSP.
Speaking of TSP, their retirement consists of a pension, which is really minimal. It’s nothing like military retirement, TSP and Social Security. TSP is the key part. Government does a small automatic contribution, which I think is 1 percent of pay, but also matches first 5 percent the employee invests (only fools don’t do that much), but employee can invest more which I regularly recommended doing. TSP is the greatest benefit they have IMO and I’ve recommended many times that it be extended to all Americans and we phase out SS with the exception of some relatively small safety net for the few that don’t make much money and/or don’t take advantage of TSP.
As for rather people are working in government for the pay or not, it’s a mixed bag, but generally not. On the academic side the majority of the faculty were retired military, generally O5 and O6 who nearly all could double their pay in the private sector. They do the job because they “want to give back” by training others to do what they did. Some do that for a few years and retire, some move to private sector, some move into leadership, etc., but they certainly aren’t doing the job for the pay or benefits. We had great support staff too (they all worked directly or indirectly for me), they generally start out junior and move up. Like any employee, they can be let go.
Just some thoughts and info from my experiences. My last assignment wasn’t my only experience with federal workers. We had some at all my shore assignments between ships.
Thanks. I’ve been trying to come around more. My cousins ChicagoFineForNow and IDontWannaLargeFarva used to post here quite a bit before they were banned, so I’ve always been hesitant to step into the fray.
Roger. What can or should be done about these speaking fees? Or writing and selling books? Grant famously was nearly broke after his Presidency while dying from cancer. He was worried about his family. He wrote his memoirs which became a best seller providing enough for his family after his death. Recent Presidents have made quite a bit in their post Presidency books. Biden made a bunch after his Vice Presidency too. I don’t know there is anything to be done about this in our capitalist economy.I wasn’t referencing individual pay. It’s the wealth/power that comes with being in Congress or government. Take Janet Yellen for example. She made 7 million dollars in speaking fees prior to being the Treasury Secretary and she will make a crap ton after being TS, as well.
Yellen Earned $7.2 Million In Speaking Fees Over Last Two Years
She gave speeches to dozens of companies including Citi, Credit Suisse and Salesforce.www.forbes.com
@Aloha Hoosier I went back and read my post. I should have been more specific than government workers.
There should be no public sector unions.There are federal employee unions, but they are basically toothless. Not sure why they even bother to exist.
Nothing like the public sector unions for more local govt tit suckers like @snarlcakes
Back to the OP. This will be very interesting to watch play out. A lot of the MAGA base was likely already skeptical of the tech oligarchs. Seeing those same tech oligarchs use the Trump administration to push their policy goals and the MAGA base reaction will be good theater.
I will say. Some of what I’ve seen from the more MAGA side of this debate is revealing them to be nativists. Saying stuff like Vivek (who was born in Ohio) is “India first”. Or that Vance can’t be trusted in this issue because he has an Indian wife.
Illegal immigration has always been such a problem that we haven’t had the luxury of discussing things like H1B’s and how many green cards we should issue each year. It was unifying for the right.
It appears some (not all) MAGA’s were using their opposition to illegal immigration as a Trojan horse for their anti-immigration views more generally.
Something commonly said on the right the last few years has been something along the lines of:
“We should have zero tolerance for illegal entries and amnesty abuse, however legal pathways to citizenship should probably be increased”
I earnestly believe that but it appears others were using that as lip service to soft pedal their views into the mainstream. Whether their motivations are protecting the American labor force or plane old racism, it’s horribly misguided.
Illegal immigration has always been such a problem that we haven’t had the luxury of discussing things like H1B’s and how many green cards we should issue each year. It was unifying for the right.
It appears some (not all) MAGA’s were using their opposition to illegal immigration as a Trojan horse for their anti-immigration views more generally.
Something commonly said on the right the last few years has been something along the lines of:
“We should have zero tolerance for illegal entries and amnesty abuse, however legal pathways to citizenship should probably be increased”
I earnestly believe that but it appears others were using that as lip service to soft pedal their views into the mainstream. Whether their motivations are protecting the American labor force or plane old racism, it’s horribly misguided.
Employee Benefits
No matter your experience level, if you are curious about obtaining work in the government, Go Government is the right place.
gogovernment.org
This is an obscene amount of time off. Year one. 13 vaca days. 11 paid holidays. 13 sick days. Again that’s unreal. 5 plus weeks
There’s no myth re termination. What you described is for cause. A legit documented reason for why the ee is unfit. Misconduct. Poor performance
My first job was at a firm. A year one ee never called in sick. Never took a vaca day. And sure as hell didn’t take 11 paid holidays. And the employment was at will. He wears bad suits. Get rid of him today. Guy’s laugh is annoying. Get rid of him.
As I said it’s a marked difference
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I wasn’t including federal holidays. Is 13 paid vacation days really absurd? Everyone got at least that in the first year where I worked after military retirement. Sick leave isn’t supposed to be use inappropriately. In my experience, it wasn’t. Besides, this does lead to an actual benefit. Upon retirement all their unused leave can be converted to longevity of employment.Employee Benefits
No matter your experience level, if you are curious about obtaining work in the government, Go Government is the right place.
This is an obscene amount of time off. Year one. 13 vaca days. 11 paid holidays. 13 sick days. Again that’s unreal. 5 plus weeks
There’s no myth re termination. What you described is for cause. A legit documented reason for why the ee is unfit.
My first job was at a firm. A year one ee never called in sick. Never took a vaca day. And sure as hell didn’t take 11 paid holidays. And the employment was at will. He wears bad suits. Get rid of him today. Guy’s laugh is annoying. Get rid of him.
As I said it’s a marked difference
I was also talking about separation for poor performance and it absolutely can be done and it’s a myth that it can’t be done. Yes, it takes some effort from the supervisor, but it’s not that significant and it’s part of what supervisors get paid to do. They can be separated too. Sure it’s not as easy as in the civilian sector, but it’s absolutely be done.
I once fired a guy as a civilian by telling him to pack his trash, turn in your key and badge, and go home. Paperwork to follow. Can’t even be that quick in the military in getting rid of a deadbeat.
Add in 11 holidays and a few sick days you’re at a month off of work a year in year one. That’s a ton. I can tell you my opinion might be skewed having been at law firms but any associate taking two weeks vaca and 11 holidays would not have had a job. And there would have been no paperwork
And that speaks nothing of 60 hour weeks. Saturdays etc
Twenty hit on this above. You are looking at all Fed employees. Like every company, you have hourly, rank and file and directors and executives. Sure, some hourly folks will earn and burn vacation and sick. However, many high level workers are doing big jobs with little resources. They are not calling in sick anymore than a similarly situated private sector employee.Employee Benefits
No matter your experience level, if you are curious about obtaining work in the government, Go Government is the right place.
This is an obscene amount of time off. Year one. 13 vaca days. 11 paid holidays. 13 sick days. Again that’s unreal. 5 plus weeks
There’s no myth re termination. What you described is for cause. A legit documented reason for why the ee is unfit. Misconduct. Poor performance
My first job was at a firm. A year one ee never called in sick. Never took a vaca day. And sure as hell didn’t take 11 paid holidays. And the employment was at will. He wears bad suits. Get rid of him today. Guy’s laugh is annoying. Get rid of him.
As I said it’s a marked difference
And that’s what I’m generally referring to. The millions on the general schedule. Not higher level. They have built in protections etc that private doesn’t. Especially small businesses
Secondary considerations are surely part of it. Also like many careers, once you are far enough into it, difficult to adjust course and go do something entirely different.
I don't understand your question about minimum wage
There are Dems who get it. That's why guys like Shapiro mostly stayed away this year. Next primary will be a huge battle for the direction of the party.
Employee Benefits
No matter your experience level, if you are curious about obtaining work in the government, Go Government is the right place.
This is an obscene amount of time off. Year one. 13 vaca days. 11 paid holidays. 13 sick days. Again that’s unreal. 5 plus weeks
There’s no myth re termination. What you described is for cause. A legit documented reason for why the ee is unfit. Misconduct. Poor performance
My first job was at a firm. A year one ee never called in sick. Never took a vaca day. And sure as hell didn’t take 11 paid holidays. And the employment was at will. He wears bad suits. Get rid of him today. Guy’s laugh is annoying. Get rid of him.
As I said it’s a marked difference
My spouse works for a F50 mega corp and gets 35 days off a year. 7 weeks. Pls normal holidays. So it's not just gov
Murt seems be forgetting that law firms are awful places to work and not remotely representative of the private sector as a whole.
It’s not the 1800s anymore. Obama is doing ok in his 28 acre compound in Martha’s Vineyard. It’s probably impossible to stop, but you can limit it. Cut the federal government in half and abolish the FED. The less capital they control, the less of an issue it is.
Employee Benefits
No matter your experience level, if you are curious about obtaining work in the government, Go Government is the right place.
This is an obscene amount of time off. Year one. 13 vaca days. 11 paid holidays. 13 sick days. Again that’s unreal. 5 plus weeks
There’s no myth re termination. What you described is for cause. A legit documented reason for why the ee is unfit. Misconduct. Poor performance
My first job was at a firm. A year one ee never called in sick. Never took a vaca day. And sure as hell didn’t take 11 paid holidays. And the employment was at will. He wears bad suits. Get rid of him today. Guy’s laugh is annoying. Get rid of him.
As I said it’s a marked difference
Most govt positions are probationary hires. Most are 2 or 3 years where they can easily be fired. Had a college buddy that was hired as a Fed and got fired after a couple years as he pissed off a senior person.
Once they get to career status I believe becomes very different and difficult to fire, but not impossible
And can take it? Firms I worked listed it but no one other than the established old timers actually took it
I understand it very well. It’s for cause. With an appeal as well via opm etc along with other protections. That is nothing like at will. Most people are employed by small businesses. The comparison to fed employment is a night and day difference
Like 20 years now... But she's had that much for a long time.. Has some sort of pension too.
Democrats do need to get their shit together. The electoral college is only going to get worse for them in 32 after the new census comes out in 30. For the record, I hope you guys don’t get your shit together.
Oh hell, she takes every day of it. They don't roll it over year to year. She's off currently for like 2 weeks over school break.
Agree. Small business definitely different story. I've canned people within a few days working in smaller firms.
Mega corps somewhere in between. Often have to put people on PIP, give opportunity for improvement...and do a shit load of documentation if you want to terminate
And you couple those protections, real and perhaps perceived to an extent, you question what we’re doing at the agency level and why we offer such protections most don’t enjoy when we have failures like below. Dirty labs. Pure negligence.
Can we circle back to Twenty’s ole lady being an exec at a F50 company??? My god that would be the life.
There’s not one thing I’ve done right. Not one
Pickleball in the mornings. Pool boy throughout the week. Antiquing on the weekends. Smash buying Bitcoin on all dips. WHAT. A. LIFE.
You're talking to a guy that routinely worked 50-60 hour weeks in my last job. That's nothing compared to the hours working on sea duty. I'm happy to be retired-retired.
I’m just saying there are limits to how much people will sacrifice in wage/salary for other things.
What are you trying to say? You trying to say I had it easy?
