James Lankford and those sissy liberals from the Okie state hate America.

[mcmurtry66]

I know it is popular to say the law lets Biden stop things now. So below is a snippit of the law, and a link to the full code. My laymen reading, once someone says asylum we cannot just toss them out. End of story. @BradStevens, do I have that wrong? I would have clipped more but at some point my phone just tries to grab the entire article:

(4) Claim of asylum or fear of persecution or torture. If an alien subject to the expedited removal provisions indicates an intention to apply for asylum, or expresses a fear of persecution or torture, or a fear of return to his or her country, the inspecting officer shall not proceed further with removal of the alien until the alien has been referred for an interview by an asylum officer in accordance with 8 CFR 208.30. The examining immigration officer shall record sufficient information...

8 CFR § 235.3 - Inadmissible aliens and expedited removal.

www.law.cornell.edu

i'm doing too many things for this kind of in depth review but essentially if htey are already in the states or enter through a recognized entry port they are treated differently than those who cross illegally (@twenty02 bringing you in). if they cross illegally they are subject to expedited removal, unless they cry asylum or fear which then invokes the procedural process for a credibility determination with an officer. and even that has an appeal of sorts (right to review) to a judge for determination.

so in reviewing all of this 1) i do not believe the current bill makes sense 2) i do not believe the current set up ever contemplated this many applicants and also needs amending or the backlog could never be reached.

it's like soc sec disabilty. you apply. get denied by mail. request a review. get denied by mail. request a hearing and go to the judge for a final determination. the process takes forever and gives rise to a massive backlog. this will be even worse. and who is going to detain these people? are we going to parole them like biden was doing. will they appear or just disappear? How would we ever process the number in backlog and contemplated by the bill?

i think we need a wall or something, border agents tenfold, and curb the numbers while revising this asylum process

 

[mrhighlife]

of course we are afraid of brown people. they are desperate and will be a drag on our country exacerbating welfare needs. half the country can't pay rent today. have noticed our debt? these aren't EB-5 entries

I get it. And also know that you want solutions. Your party leadership isn't providing any though. And on the rare occasion they do and the other side says "ok let's work together on this" they freak out because evidently their bluff was called.

The Dems do it too on a number of issues. It's ridiculous when any party places elections above country.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Biden didn’t create the mess. It’s been a mess long before Biden. It got worse, for many reasons, some of which are Biden’s fault. Republicans have no interest in making it better. They just want to use it as an election issue.

Biden issued 12 executive orders on immigration in his first hundred days in office, including 5 on his very first day. 10 of the 12 directly reversed Trump administration policies on immigration.

This is 100 percent Joes mess.

Here are the executive actions Biden signed in his first 100 days

President Joe Biden has signed a flurry of executive actions in his first 100 days in office, primarily aimed at rapidly addressing the coronavirus pandemic and dismantling many of former President Donald Trump's policies. See them all here.

www.cnn.com

 

[DANC]

I know it is popular to say the law lets Biden stop things now. So below is a snippit of the law, and a link to the full code. My laymen reading, once someone says asylum we cannot just toss them out. End of story. @BradStevens, do I have that wrong? I would have clipped more but at some point my phone just tries to grab the entire article:

(4) Claim of asylum or fear of persecution or torture. If an alien subject to the expedited removal provisions indicates an intention to apply for asylum, or expresses a fear of persecution or torture, or a fear of return to his or her country, the inspecting officer shall not proceed further with removal of the alien until the alien has been referred for an interview by an asylum officer in accordance with 8 CFR 208.30. The examining immigration officer shall record sufficient information...

8 CFR § 235.3 - Inadmissible aliens and expedited removal.

www.law.cornell.edu

That's AFTER they get in the country. The goal is to keep them from getting here in the first place. This bill does nothing for that.

 

[mcmurtry66]

That's AFTER they get in the country. The goal is to keep them from getting here in the first place. This bill does nothing for that.

Read my post. There’s a procedure for before if they claim asylum

 

[twenty02]

i'm doing too many things for this kind of in depth review but essentially if htey are already in the states or enter through a recognized entry port they are treated differently than those who cross illegally (@twenty02 bringing you in). if they cross illegally they are subject to expedited removal, unless they cry asylum or fear which then invokes the procedural process for a credibility determination with an officer. and even that has an appeal of sorts (right to review) to a judge for determination.

so in reviewing all of this 1) i do not believe the current bill makes sense 2) i do not believe the current set up ever contemplated this many applicants and also needs amending or the backlog could never be reached.

it's like soc sec disabilty. you apply. get denied by mail. request a review. get denied by mail. request a hearing and go to the judge for a final determination. the process takes forever and gives rise to a massive backlog. this will be even worse. and who is going to detain these people? are we going to parole them like biden was doing. will they appear or just disappear? How would we ever process the number in backlog and contemplated by the bill?

i think we need a wall or something, border agents tenfold, and curb the numbers while revising this asylum process

This is exactly what I've been saying to you all morning. Even if you cross illegally, you claim asylum and then current law says you get to stay while this asylum case is played out. Biden admin actually attempted to release a new rule a year ago to eliminate this (illegal crossing and asylum). Don't know where it currently stands.

Asylum-seekers who cross the border illegally to be deported under new Biden administration rule

The new rule is designed to push migrants to seek asylum at official border crossings or through other legal channels rather than crossing the border illegally and then requesting asylum.

www.texastribune.org

I provided you the WSJ Editorial Board opinion piece on this being the strongest border security bill Republicans have ever gotten.... All while not having to give up anything related to amnesty and legalization.

But they don't actually want the win. Reminds me of the abortion battle.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

That's AFTER they get in the country. The goal is to keep them from getting here in the first place. This bill does nothing for that.

Wrong. It hires new agents, puts on new wall, new equipment .

Do you really think we can stop ALL people coming in, 100%?

This bill isn't perfect, compromise bills are always that way. But I believe it is a lie it will do nothing. If all it does is change that part of code it makes one hell of a difference.

 

[DANC]

Read my post. There’s a procedure for before if they claim asylum

Trump's enforcement of the current laws - and bluster on the subject - discouraged many people from even trying to cross the border. That and a wall, which Democrats rejected.

I don't have a problem with people applying for asylum or whatever - before they get here or at a legal border crossing. But we're doing nothing - well, Texas is - to stop the illegal crossing points.

 

[DANC]

Wrong. It hires new agents, puts on new wall, new equipment .

Do you really think we can stop ALL people coming in, 100%?

This bill isn't perfect, compromise bills are always that way. But I believe it is a lie it will do nothing. If all it does is change that part of code it makes one hell of a difference.

A wall? lmao You mean a wall like Democrats crucified Trump for?

New agents.... hell, we can't hire enough agents to stop illegals if they aren't allowed to do their job. The agents we have now aren't allowed to do their job.

This law is nothing but a money give-away for Democrats to claim they're 'doing something' about illegal immigration, even though the've ignored it for 3 years. It's an election year gimmick.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

i'm doing too many things for this kind of in depth review but essentially if htey are already in the states or enter through a recognized entry port they are treated differently than those who cross illegally (@twenty02 bringing you in). if they cross illegally they are subject to expedited removal, unless they cry asylum or fear which then invokes the procedural process for a credibility determination with an officer. and even that has an appeal of sorts (right to review) to a judge for determination.

so in reviewing all of this 1) i do not believe the current bill makes sense 2) i do not believe the current set up ever contemplated this many applicants and also needs amending or the backlog could never be reached.

it's like soc sec disabilty. you apply. get denied by mail. request a review. get denied by mail. request a hearing and go to the judge for a final determination. the process takes forever and gives rise to a massive backlog. this will be even worse. and who is going to detain these people? are we going to parole them like biden was doing. will they appear or just disappear? How would we ever process the number in backlog and contemplated by the bill?

i think we need a wall or something, border agents tenfold, and curb the numbers while revising this asylum process

This bill tightens up what is required to win an asylum claim, making it easier to dispense with the "this really isn't asylum" cases. Cases that are borderline now won't be. It replaces asylum judges with 4000 agents. The judges are overworked with different standards. That many agents will be able to process faster. Courts are many things, do you claim them to be efficient?

Senate border bill would upend US asylum with emergency limits and fast-track reviews

A sweeping Senate bill on border security would bring dramatic changes to places like Jacumba Hot Springs, where hundreds of migrants wiggle through a border wall with Mexico every day in boulder-strewn mountains near San Diego to surrender to border agents and seek asylum.

apnews.com

 

[Bowlmania]

The real purpose of this new law is to give Biden cover for his refusal to enforce existing law

So Lankford is a Biden lackey? Get real, man.

 

[Bowlmania]

Imo better to wait until after the election

Marvin clearly explained why waiting until after the election makes no sense.

Trump wins, doesn't get 60, angry Democrats never give him 60 on any vote, ever. Biden wins, no longer gives a damn about the border because Ukraine has fallen. In which scenario does the border magically improve?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

A wall? lmao You mean a wall like Democrats crucified Trump for?

New agents.... hell, we can't hire enough agents to stop illegals if they aren't allowed to do their job. The agents we have now aren't allowed to do their job.

This law is nothing but a money give-away for Democrats to claim they're 'doing something' about illegal immigration, even though the've ignored it for 3 years. It's an election year gimmick.

Democrats would never have passed this if Johnson were not an idiot and linked it to Ukraine. What makes you think Democrats are dying to pass a bill, let alone one that doesn't touch Dreamers.

 

[mcmurtry66]

This is exactly what I've been saying to you all morning. Even if you cross illegally, you claim asylum and then current law says you get to stay while this asylum case is played out. Biden admin actually attempted to release a new rule a year ago to eliminate this (illegal crossing and asylum). Don't know where it currently stands.

Asylum-seekers who cross the border illegally to be deported under new Biden administration rule

The new rule is designed to push migrants to seek asylum at official border crossings or through other legal channels rather than crossing the border illegally and then requesting asylum.

www.texastribune.org

I provided you the WSJ Editorial Board opinion piece on this being the strongest border security bill Republicans have ever gotten.... All while not having to give up anything related to amnesty and legalization.

But they don't actually want the win. Reminds me of the abortion battle.

@Marvin the Martian i disagree with both of you. the problem is none of this speaks to the fact that the bill doesn't resolve anything really. it just tweaks things. marv you're idealistic article about reducing timing etc sounds like more gov. we can look to the social security admin for reality. as i've said before the numbers are too many. it doesn't fix anything. it allows over a million people a year and we can't absord that many

what's more, and what's interesting, is the authority to dispose of those aliens after the 4,000 per day or whatever is eclipsed with a few humanitarian exceptions. the amnesty laws need to be revised i agree but they need to be revised and the numbers need to be reduced drastically.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Marvin clearly explained why waiting until after the election makes no sense.

that's pure speculation. hell abbott and desantis are ready to act now. pressure will undermine what marv wrote imo

 

[Bowlmania]

Ok, so why in the hell does Joe suddenly care about it now?

In an election year, when he’s getting hammered on the issue.

The answer is obvious. He’s no different than the republicans.

Come on, Zeke.

Because he's getting something in return.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Because he's getting something in return.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

Absurd. It’s a crisis on our homeland now the cadaver will act “if he gets something in return.” Guy is a danger to the country. Plain and simple

 

[Bowlmania]

that's pure speculation.

It's reality.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

that's pure speculation. hell abbott and desantis are ready to act now. pressure will undermine what marv wrote imo

What in the Constitution gives them authority to act? Could CA just hand out citizenship to anyone coming in? Immigration and asylum have always been federal. It wasn't New Jersey running that island people used to land at.

 

[Bowlmania]

Absurd. It’s a crisis on our homeland now the cadaver will act “if he gets something in return.” Guy is a danger to the country. Plain and simple

I'm pressed for time. Read twenty and Marvin's posts on this. They've explained it clearly and cogently.

 

[mcmurtry66]

What in the Constitution gives them authority to act? Could CA just hand out citizenship to anyone coming in? Immigration and asylum have always been federal. It wasn't New Jersey running that island people used to land at.

We will find out as im sure their state laws will invite a showdown with the feds

 

[mcmurtry66]

I'm pressed for time. Read twenty and Marvin's posts on this. They've explained it clearly and cogently.

I have to get work. Read Mcm's posts along with coh's on this. They clearly and cogently explain the concerns while bringing a touch of reality to the matter. There’s zero chance we can handle those numbers. And review the post brad had on the backlog. That will help you as well. administrative law experience brings a dose of reality to this mess. this would be as claims as all of the workers compensation claims filed in a year. and think of that infrastructure. insurance companies, third party adjusting companies, lawyers, judges, etc. it's an army. that's the scope and scale we're taking about with the numbers of aliens in the system and contemplated by this bill. madness

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Because he's getting something in return.

I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

So he’s leveraging the health of the nation to get what he wants politically?

Thats even worse than because it’s an election year.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Biden didn’t create the mess. It’s been a mess long before Biden. It got worse, for many reasons, some of which are Biden’s fault. Republicans have no interest in making it better. They just want to use it as an election issue.

Which reasons are not Biden's fault?

 

[mcmurtry66]

So he’s leveraging the health of the nation to get what he wants politically?

Thats even worse than because it’s an election year.

exactly. no idea how bowl misses how evil biden is with this bs

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Ok, so why in the hell does Joe suddenly care about it now?

In an election year, when he’s getting hammered on the issue.

The answer is obvious. He’s no different than the republicans.

Come on, Zeke.

So what? Here you have the choice between Democrats doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, or Republicans doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons. Take the win. Give the Dems a little pat on the back for finally coming to their senses. And pass a genuine immigration bill for the first time in forever.

 

[DANC]

Democrats would never have passed this if Johnson were not an idiot and linked it to Ukraine. What makes you think Democrats are dying to pass a bill, let alone one that doesn't touch Dreamers.

Democrats would never have passed this if Johnson were not an idiot and linked it to Ukraine. What makes you think Democrats are dying to pass a bill, let alone one that doesn't touch Dreamers.

Well, thank God he did. Of course Dems wouldn't have done anything, but Ukraine and it being an election year makes the Dems come to the table.

Obviously they didn't care about the border or they would have negotiated on HR2.

 

[DANC]

exactly. no idea how bowl misses how evil biden is with this bs

He's not missing it. He's always been a Biden apologist. And Republican, don't forget - He's always claimed he's a Republican.

 

[mcmurtry66]

What in the Constitution gives them authority to act? Could CA just hand out citizenship to anyone coming in? Immigration and asylum have always been federal. It wasn't New Jersey running that island people used to land at.

sorry marv i'm trying to work while scanning these. what i wrote was that the states intend to build walls/blockades and criminalize entry for those who enter. those stats are what will give rise to a fed showdown i trust.

i agree with both you adn @twenty02 tho that the biggest issue in all of this is asylum and the procedures related to same. allowing aliens to cry asylum invokes problems

 

[Spartans9312]

you can't legalize that many coming in. something will get done. states. something. legalizing that many coming in will change the entire composition of our country for the worse trending us towards the countries these folks are leaving over time

That could be the vision for this country…for a significant percentage of one political party

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Well, thank God he did. Of course Dems wouldn't have done anything, but Ukraine and it being an election year makes the Dems come to the table.

Obviously they didn't care about the border or they would have negotiated on HR2.

The GOP did not want negotiations on HR2, they wanted it to reflect full on GOP views. Perhaps you can point me to any Democratic amendments or input in that bill? It is a GOP laundry list

The Senate bill IS a compromised. Ds don't want to waste money on a wall, but we give it to you. That is how negotiations work.

 

[mcmurtry66]

That could be the vision for this country…for a significant percentage of one political party

It really makes you wonder when they essentially admit they can shut it down but choose not to

 

[DANC]

The GOP did not want negotiations on HR2, they wanted it to reflect full on GOP views. Perhaps you can point me to any Democratic amendments or input in that bill? It is a GOP laundry list

The Senate bill IS a compromised. Ds don't want to waste money on a wall, but we give it to you. That is how negotiations work.

The comment was made above that the Senate bill gave Republicans all they wanted. That's bullshit - what they wanted was in HR2 - that's what I was pointing out.

Were the Dems interested in negotiating? Hell no, because they knew the Senate would never vote on it. And 2023 wasn't an election year.

You ridiculed a wall for 4 years under Trump and now it's in your bill? You don't see how hypocritical that is?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

@Marvin the Martian i disagree with both of you. the problem is none of this speaks to the fact that the bill doesn't resolve anything really. it just tweaks things. marv you're idealistic article about reducing timing etc sounds like more gov. we can look to the social security admin for reality. as i've said before the numbers are too many. it doesn't fix anything. it allows over a million people a year and we can't absord that many

what's more, and what's interesting, is the authority to dispose of those aliens after the 4,000 per day or whatever is eclipsed with a few humanitarian exceptions. the amnesty laws need to be revised i agree but they need to be revised and the numbers need to be reduced drastically.

So we don't have enough lifeboats for everyone so we deploy no lifeboats.

I get my way or I take my ball and go home.

I am concerned about your sudden willingness to admit to fearing brown people. That trope has been around a long time, look at our history. We can't let Irish in or we will turn into them, then it was Italian, then German. Now it is Hispanic. I don't believe Hispanics will ruin America more than Irish, Italian, or German. I am sure you will mention numbers, we have more people of German ancestry than English, so were they right, did that destroy America?

 

[mcmurtry66]

So we don't have enough lifeboats for everyone so we deploy no lifeboats.

I get my way or I take my ball and go home.

I am concerned about your sudden willingness to admit to fearing brown people. That trope has been around a long time, look at our history. We can't let Irish in or we will turn into them, then it was Italian, then German. Now it is Hispanic. I don't believe Hispanics will ruin America more than Irish, Italian, or German. I am sure you will mention numbers, we have more people of German ancestry than English, so were they right, did that destroy America?

it has nothing to do with the color of their skin but rather their station in life and what they'll bring in the immediate future. as i've said before discriminating upon value to our country in dollars is nothing new. EB-5. Your path down history's lane is of little moment to our current state of being 34 trillion in debt and tens of millions already struggling. maybe we could revisit entry at a later time but this is yet another financial burden

 

[mcmurtry66]

So we don't have enough lifeboats for everyone so we deploy no lifeboats.

I get my way or I take my ball and go home.

I am concerned about your sudden willingness to admit to fearing brown people. That trope has been around a long time, look at our history. We can't let Irish in or we will turn into them, then it was Italian, then German. Now it is Hispanic. I don't believe Hispanics will ruin America more than Irish, Italian, or German. I am sure you will mention numbers, we have more people of German ancestry than English, so were they right, did that destroy America?

and i do get it. i've watched stories and documentaries. it's horrible. just people who had shitty luck looking for a better life.

 

[DANC]

and i do get it. i've watched stories and documentaries. it's horrible. just people who had shitty luck looking for a better life.

My father-in-law said if he was born in Mexico, there would be one more "wet-back' in the US. Not politically correct, but he's right.

I just can't see bringing our society to the level of the place they came from.

 

[mcmurtry66]

My father-in-law said if he was born in Mexico, there would be one more "wet-back' in the US. Not politically correct, but he's right.

I just can't see bringing our society to the level of the place they came from.

i absolutely love the mexicans and latinos. they have the most entertaining league in town. they have a table and all the families come and bbq on the sidelines and they go all out with kits etc. they are super harding working people as well. check out how cool this league is. it's just the numbers. we can't absorb so many people or even process that many

http://ligalatinastl.com/

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The comment was made above that the Senate bill gave Republicans all they wanted. That's bullshit - what they wanted was in HR2 - that's what I was pointing out.

Were the Dems interested in negotiating? Hell no, because they knew the Senate would never vote on it. And 2023 wasn't an election year.

You ridiculed a wall for 4 years under Trump and now it's in your bill? You don't see how hypocritical that is?

It is called negotiation. You think walls contain magical properties that block 100% of refugees and demand one. I say fine, we will waste our money on the Maginot Line 2, but then I want X.

Honestly, have you never, ever, bargained for anything in your life?

 

[DANC]

It is called negotiation. You think walls contain magical properties that block 100% of refugees and demand one. I say fine, we will waste our money on the Maginot Line 2, but then I want X.

Honestly, have you never, ever, bargained for anything in your life?

So I guess Democrats don't want an up or down vote on Ukrainian aid, which would pass.

I wonder why?