IU reconsidering vaccine mandate

[Noodle]

It isnt the virus itself, no. I got the J&J....here is what is says about it.

The Janssen/Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine is a vector vaccine. In this type of vaccine, genetic material from the COVID-19 virus is inserted into a different kind of weakened live virus, such as an adenovirus. When the weakened virus (viral vector) gets into your cells, it delivers genetic material from the COVID-19 virus that gives your cells instructions to make copies of the S protein.

Your previous post said: "You are then asking people who were very sick, to put the same virus back in their bodies."

The adenovirus used in the J&J vaccine is not even a coronavirus. It also cannot make you sick because it has been attenuated, which means it cannot reproduce. Yes, it briefly causes cells in your body to produce the Covid-19 spike protein. However, that spike protein also is not a virus, and cannot make you sick. It's simply the coating on the Covid-19 virus that allows that virus to enter cells in your body.

So, the fact that someone has had Covid already, even if they are a long hauler, is no reason not to get the vaccine.

In fact, there are reports that the vaccine may actually HELP long haulers recover more quickly. There are also indications that long haulers may have less acquired immunity than those who only had a mild case of Covid-19.

Why Vaccines May Be Helping Some With Long COVID

As more people get vaccinated against COVID-19, a surprise discovery has been that vaccines seem to provide some relief for some patients with what’s being called “long COVID.” A prominent Yale researcher is working with colleagues to launch what she predicts will be a large collaborative study...

www.yalemedicine.org

 

[IUCrazy2]

Why is it good? Should we eliminate other vaccines?

No we should not. These vaccines are still under an emergency use authorizatiom. They are not fully approved like the decades tested MMR, Polio, etc.

So in my mind, a young adult with a 99.8% survivability rate should have the ability to weigh the risks of being in effect a Guinea Pig for Pfizer, Moderna, and/or J&J and catching the virus which they are most likely to survive with minimal impact to them. And that is not eliminating these vaccines either. It is allowing people to have more information at hand and allowing a governing body more time to review long term impacts before forcing them into the shot.

I have more thoughts but will leave it at that.

 

[mashnut]

No we should not. These vaccines are still under an emergency use authorizatiom. They are not fully approved like the decades tested MMR, Polio, etc.

So in my mind, a young adult with a 99.8% survivability rate should have the ability to weigh the risks of being in effect a Guinea Pig for Pfizer, Moderna, and/or J&J and catching the virus which they are most likely to survive with minimal impact to them. And that is not eliminating these vaccines either. It is allowing people to have more information at hand and allowing a governing body more time to review long term impacts before forcing them into the shot.

I have more thoughts but will leave it at that.

They do get to make their own risk choice. They don't get to make that choice for others, they're welcome to refuse vaccination and find a university that does not have that restriction or that offers virtual options. It's a nice free-market solution that accomplishes exactly what you say you want.

 

[Noodle]

I took the J&J vaccine and was sick for almost 48 hours.

awwww.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

No we should not. These vaccines are still under an emergency use authorizatiom. They are not fully approved like the decades tested MMR, Polio, etc.

So in my mind, a young adult with a 99.8% survivability rate should have the ability to weigh the risks of being in effect a Guinea Pig for Pfizer, Moderna, and/or J&J and catching the virus which they are most likely to survive with minimal impact to them. And that is not eliminating these vaccines either. It is allowing people to have more information at hand and allowing a governing body more time to review long term impacts before forcing them into the shot.

I have more thoughts but will leave it at that.

Normal trials are 3-6 years, so it isn't like we know real long term issues with them.

Several years after the Spanish Flu there was a high incidence of Parkinson's among people with mild cases. If we do not know the long term implications of the vaccine we do not know the long term implications of the disease. So we cannot say for certain what the survival rate of the disease is if we are going to worry about long term issues.

 

[DANC]

Now, instead of returning to normal, the university will need to use considerable time and resources for further mitigation testing, with quarantines remaining in place and freedoms restricted. All because of a state legislature, that no longer allocates much funding to IU, being against a mandated vaccination.

Indiana University reconsidering vaccine verification for students

Indiana University announced on Thursday that it plans to review the verification process for a coronavirus vaccination requirement after multiple state officials condemned the move.The school said…

thehill.com

Well, that and those pesky Hippa laws.

 

[Noodle]

Normal trials are 3-6 years, so it isn't like we know real long term issues with them.

Several years after the Spanish Flu there was a high incidence of Parkinson's among people with mild cases. If we do not know the long term implications of the vaccine we do not know the long term implications of the disease. So we cannot say for certain what the survival rate of the disease is if we are going to worry about long term issues.

The "long term implications of the vaccine" would have absolutely nothing to do with "the long term implications of the disease." Those two things really have no relationship to one another since again, THERE IS NO COVID-19 VIRUS IN THE VACCINES.

 

[IUCrazy2]

They do get to make their own risk choice. They don't get to make that choice for others, they're welcome to refuse vaccination and find a university that does not have that restriction or that offers virtual options. It's a nice free-market solution that accomplishes exactly what you say you want.

Indiana is a state school. You are restricting access to a government institution that is trying to skirt state rules on an unapproved, except for emergency use, vaccine.

The free market thing is a whole other conversation. My conservative leanings does not mean I prefer corporate overlords to government ones.

 

[Pelkowski]

awwww.

Friend, you just said that....

"Yes, it briefly causes cells in your body to produce the Covid-19 spike protein. However, that spike protein also is not a virus, and cannot make you sick."

Your thoughtfulness and kindness mean something to me. Thank you for that. Meaningful!

 

[IUCrazy2]

They do get to make their own risk choice. They don't get to make that choice for others, they're welcome to refuse vaccination and find a university that does not have that restriction or that offers virtual options. It's a nice free-market solution that accomplishes exactly what you say you want.

Also, what risk choice? You are vaccinated. You are good to go. What is the risk to you?

 

[Noodle]

Friend, you just said that....

"Yes, it briefly causes cells in your body to produce the Covid-19 spike protein. However, that spike protein also is not a virus, and cannot make you sick."

Your thoughtfulness and kindness mean something to me. Thank you for that. Meaningful!

The spike protein did not make you sick. Your body's immune system did, by attacking a harmless little protein and training itself for a potential actual viral attack later.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Normal trials are 3-6 years, so it isn't like we know real long term issues with them.

Several years after the Spanish Flu there was a high incidence of Parkinson's among people with mild cases. If we do not know the long term implications of the vaccine we do not know the long term implications of the disease. So we cannot say for certain what the survival rate of the disease is if we are going to worry about long term issues.

Nothing in life is risk free. So how about when both options are kind of up in the air that we allow people with a 99.8% survival rate decide which risk they are more willing to live with?

At what point would you draw the line Marvin? The argument I am seeing is that if my decision can impact someone else's health in any way, that I should be compelled by the government or private business on behalf of the government to undertake whatever medical treatment that "consensus" believes I should have.

Seems kind of anti-freedom to me.

 

[mashnut]

The spike protein did not make you sick. Your body's immune system did, by attacking a harmless little protein and training itself for a potential actual viral attack later.

Not that it'll help the willfully ignorant, but thought you'd at least appreciate this particular XKCD:

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Nothing in life is risk free. So how about when both options are kind of up in the air that we allow people with a 99.8% survival rate decide which risk they are more willing to live with?

At what point would you draw the line Marvin? The argument I am seeing is that if my decision can impact someone else's health in any way, that I should be compelled by the government or private business on behalf of the government to undertake whatever medical treatment that "consensus" believes I should have.

Seems kind of anti-freedom to me.

Isn't that why we mandate meningitis. We don't give college students the right to risk it. A lot of schools require TB, we don't let people choose to risk it. We forcefully injected people with smallpox, I mean police held them down and someone jabbed them. We didn't let people choose to risk it.

 

[Noodle]

Isn't that why we mandate meningitis. We don't give college students the right to risk it. A lot of schools require TB, we don't let people choose to risk it. We forcefully injected people with smallpox, I mean police held them down and someone jabbed them. We didn't let people choose to risk it.

We also quarantined entire cities due to smallpox around the time of and during the Revolutionary War. Those crazy Founding Fathers - communists! That communist George Washington also ordered all troops to be inoculated with smallpox, even though he knew many would end up dying from the inoculation.

 

[DANC]

We also quarantined entire cities due to smallpox around the time of and during the Revolutionary War. Those crazy Founding Fathers - communists! That communist George Washington also ordered all troops to be inoculated with smallpox, even though he knew many would end up dying from the inoculation.

An entirely different situation. Smallpox was far deadlier than Covid is.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Isn't that why we mandate meningitis. We don't give college students the right to risk it. A lot of schools require TB, we don't let people choose to risk it. We forcefully injected people with smallpox, I mean police held them down and someone jabbed them. We didn't let people choose to risk it.

Is the meningitis vaccine approved by the FDA? Fully approved? Are the COVID 19 vaccinations? I think that is part of the difference on those. I do not believe we are comparing apples and oranges when comparing vaccines in different levels of approval.

We have other examples of things that were done for the sake of public health or "science" that would not fly today, so I don't necessarily agree with how small pox was dealt with either. And for the record, this is again another extreme example as the most common form of smallpox has a death rate of around 30%. COVID has a death rate of .02% for people in the 18 to 25 range. Even at its worst, COVID is not on the same plane as small pox.

 

[IUclover]

Oh is that what the interwebs told you?

IU is also a dry campus. lol

You definitely submitted your vaccination records. This is an automatic To Do Item that's added to your record and this item holds registration. Former employee here who has direct experience with this.

 

[IUCrazy2]

We also quarantined entire cities due to smallpox around the time of and during the Revolutionary War. Those crazy Founding Fathers - communists! That communist George Washington also ordered all troops to be inoculated with smallpox, even though he knew many would end up dying from the inoculation.

You all enjoy your weekend.

Sounds like Indiana is having to pull back on their plan, I am glad that is happening. Some of you are not. I don't think any of us are going to change each others minds at this point.

 

[Noodle]

Is the meningitis vaccine approved by the FDA? Fully approved? Are the COVID 19 vaccinations? I think that is part of the difference on those. I do not believe we are comparing apples and oranges when comparing vaccines in different levels of approval.

We have other examples of things that were done for the sake of public health or "science" that would not fly today, so I don't necessarily agree with how small pox was dealt with either. And for the record, this is again another extreme example as the most common form of smallpox has a death rate of around 30%. COVID has a death rate of .02% for people in the 18 to 25 range. Even at its worst, COVID is not on the same plane as small pox.

So what happens when Pfizer's vaccine receives full approval in, say, September or October? Will people then claim that's too soon?

 

[Mr. Lundegaard]

Require daily testing on your own dime. That’ll nip it in the bud.

Daily testing for an illness that has virtually no threat to the 18-22 demographic?

This makes no sense.

Anyone who is threatened by this virus can get vaccinated. It is their choice. But to mandate it for all others who are not remotely at risk of developing serious illness? That is absurd.

I'm fine if IU "strongly encourages" vaccination, and even makes it easy for students and employees to get their shots, but making employment or student registration being contingent on getting vaccinated with an emergency use drug is not reasonable.

 

[T.M.P.]

Nothing in life is risk free. So how about when both options are kind of up in the air that we allow people with a 99.8% survival rate decide which risk they are more willing to live with?

You keep bleating about survival rate while ignoring the known effects of long covid. I know people who still can't breath after walking a flight of stairs and it's been a year. There is also more possibility of mutation with every new infection. Quit reading Andy Ngo, there's no antifa in the vaccine ..

 

[IU_Hickory]

Daily testing for an illness that has virtually no threat to the 18-22 demographic?

This makes no sense.

Anyone who is threatened by this virus can get vaccinated. It is their choice. But to mandate it for all others who are not remotely at risk of developing serious illness? That is absurd.

I'm fine if IU "strongly encourages" vaccination, and even makes it easy for students and employees to get their shots, but making employment or student registration being contingent on getting vaccinated with an emergency use drug is not reasonable.

Yet other vaccinations are already required.

 

[Mr. Lundegaard]

Yet other vaccinations are already required.

How quickly were those vaccines developed and delivered to the general public? Are those vaccines also currently labelled "emergency or experimental use" by the FDA?

Of those vaccinations that protect against illnesses, what was the survivability rate for the 18-22 year old age group for those viruses?

Smallpox, meningitis, and polio are a threat to college students. Covid-19 is not.

If you are threatened by the virus or at risk, then you are able to obtain a cost-free vaccination.

This is like requiring the drunk in the backseat you are driving home to pass a breathalyzer test even though you're the sober driver.

 

[UncleMark]

Well, that and those pesky Hippa laws.

HIPAA doesn't apply here. Not at all.

 

[Noodle]

How quickly were those vaccines developed and delivered to the general public? Are those vaccines also currently labelled "emergency or experimental use" by the FDA?

Of those vaccinations that protect against illnesses, what was the survivability rate for the 18-22 year old age group for those viruses?

Smallpox, meningitis, and polio are a threat to college students. Covid-19 is not.

If you are threatened by the virus or at risk, then you are able to obtain a cost-free vaccination.

This is like requiring the drunk in the backseat you are driving home to pass a breathalyzer test even though you're the sober driver.

Um, smallpox and polio are not threats to college students. There is no vaccination requirement for either of those. In fact, the last smallpox outbreak in the U.S. was over 50 years ago.

 

[IUgradman]

Even if you think the virus is not a threat and decide to play Russian roulette with getting infected, you can easily transmit the virus to someone who could get very sick from it. Stop being selfish. Almost 600k people have died in this country. They ran out of wood to cremate all of the bodies of the victims killed by the virus in India. This is very serious.

 

[ce36ei]

Daily testing for an illness that has virtually no threat to the 18-22 demographic?

This makes no sense.

Anyone who is threatened by this virus can get vaccinated. It is their choice. But to mandate it for all others who are not remotely at risk of developing serious illness? That is absurd.

I'm fine if IU "strongly encourages" vaccination, and even makes it easy for students and employees to get their shots, but making employment or student registration being contingent on getting vaccinated with an emergency use drug is not reasonable.

You’re right. It won’t kill them! Nobody has ever argued young people should be vaccinated for that reason. But some will become long haulers, who so far have showed permanent lung damage and neurological abnormalities. And some will inevitably pass it to older folks who will die. Those are facts. We’ve seen it play out. I don’t understand the pushback. I really don’t.

 

[Noodle]

Even if you think the virus is not a threat and decide to play Russian roulette with getting infected, you can easily transmit the virus to someone who could get very sick from it. Stop being selfish. Almost 600k people have died in this country. They ran out of wood to cremate all of the bodies of the victims killed by the virus in India. This is very serious.

Not only that, the longer Covid spreads in the U.S., the more variants will emerge - eventually including ones that the vaccine is ineffective against and ones that are more virulent and/or more deadly. Some of those variants could even affect younger people more significantly than those currently circulating in the U.S. Look what is happening in India - young people are getting hit hard, and are being hospitalized (or dying). Yet, all these wannabe experts are claiming oh, it's just a cold. You are 100% right - these asshats need to stop being selfish and stupid and get the vaccine.

Oh, and my firm is not mandating vaccinations. But, if you don't show proof of being vaccinated, you get to keep wearing a mask when in the office.

India’s Covid Surge Hit Young Patients Hard and Fast

Doctors say they believe a fast-spreading variant is more virulent, adding to pressure on overwhelmed hospitals.

www.wsj.com

 

[UncleMark]

Oh, and my firm is not mandating vaccinations. But, if you don't show proof of being vaccinated, you get to keep wearing a mask when in the office.

LOL. I'm told that's what my former employer is doing. I'll have to find out how much of an effect it's had.

 

[Noodle]

LOL. I'm told that's what my former employer is doing. I'll have to find out how much of an effect it's had.

I've heard we're over 90% already.

 

[UncleMark]

I've heard we're over 90% already.

Yeah, I don't think many would be wanting to wear the "I am an idiot" sign at work.

 

[Noodle]

Yeah, I don't think many would be wanting to wear the "I am an idiot" sign at work.

True, but I think we were over 90% before the new mask rules were announced - at least for my office.

One of the things I do not get at all is how there are still less than half of MLB teams that are at 85% despite the fact that getting there allows them to relax their Covid protocols. And a lot of holdouts are players. One Reds pitcher has said he won't get vaccinate because he's afraid of needles. What a fu&%ing wuss.

 

[UncleMark]

True, but I think we were over 90% before the new mask rules were announced - at least for my office.

One of the things I do not get at all is how there are still less than half of MLB teams that are at 85% despite the fact that getting there allows them to relax their Covid protocols. And a lot of holdouts are players. One Reds pitcher has said he won't get vaccinate because he's afraid of needles. What a fu&%ing wuss.

I don't get anyone making the decision to not get it. There's no good reason. Some have their rationalizations, but they're based on fear or misinformation.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I don't get anyone making the decision to not get it. There's no good reason. Some have their rationalizations, but they're based on fear or misinformation.

The benefits certainly outweigh the concerns

 

[Mr. Lundegaard]

Even if you think the virus is not a threat and decide to play Russian roulette with getting infected, you can easily transmit the virus to someone who could get very sick from it. Stop being selfish.

And those people who could have the virus transmitted to them can all get vaccinated now, which according to the CDC will protect them with over 95% effectiveness.

That is my point.

Everyone has made their choice by now, vaxxed or unvaxxed.

 

[Harry Hondo]

The ex

The exposure to multiple Million dollar lawsuits should be the legislature's key concern.

Coercing healthy students to submit to an experimental panacea is a sickening thought.

Panacea? No one is saying these vaccines will offer protection from every virus.

btw, Mas, are you related to Ted Kazinski, the unibomber? Your fear of government, paranoia, and philosophies seem in-line with his.,

 

[Harry Hondo]

Indiana is a state school. You are restricting access to a government institution that is trying to skirt state rules on an unapproved, except for emergency use, vaccine.

The free market thing is a whole other conversation. My conservative leanings does not mean I prefer corporate overlords to government ones.

“Let's start with IU's largest revenue stream: tuition. But it wasn't always that way. In 2002, the state's operation appropriation provided more funding to the university than tuition. Since then, however, tuition support to the university is more than double what we receive from the state.”

The state is giving less and less and is losing a say on how IU conducts its affairs.

From the Desk: CFO describes how IU develops its budget, recommends tuition increases

IU Chief Financial Officer John Sejdinaj explains the planning process behind crafting the university’s budget.

news.iu.edu

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

Panacea? No one is saying these vaccines will offer protection from every virus.

btw, Mas, are you related to Ted Kazinski, the unibomber? Your fear of government, paranoia, and philosophies seem in-line with his.,

What fear?

 

[DANC]

You keep bleating about survival rate while ignoring the known effects of long covid. I know people who still can't breath after walking a flight of stairs and it's been a year. There is also more possibility of mutation with every new infection. Quit reading Andy Ngo, there's no antifa in the vaccine ..

The only people you know are brain-adled drug abusers. No wonder they can't walk up a flight of stairs.

You and your man-boobs from a lifetime of smoking weed find it difficult to get off your couch.