IU is limited in key positions
- Thread starter ericrossiu
- Start date
Whoever the number 1 guy is on that list you referenced...on our team, in our offense, would shoot waaayyy less 3's than he does now. Unless he's literally like Steph Curry, and can create good shots for himself whenever he wants.
Our offense isn't designed to create a lot of good, open, 3 point looks. I think us continually focusing on that is wasted time and energy. We need more guys like JHS that are versatile, can create activity and score at more than just the 3 point line. Miller is actually doing some of that for us this year, he's making his 3's when those opportunities are created, but he's also making shots off the bounce.
You do realize JHS is shooting right at 40% for 2 pt attempts, 32% from 3, and is averaging 8.7 ppg.
Lmao. Go look at the top 50 teams in 3 point shooting and then tell me where those teams are ranked. Most teams today that are good don’t have to be dynamic at the three. Mid range and match ups are the rage. Most modern offenses have abandoned the live or die by the three stuff. Efficiency at all 3 levels is way more important than shooting 25-30 threes. Most good teams don’t average 9 or more makes. Most average 7-8. Defense and efficiency are the keys. You won’t see a team outside the top 25 in defensive efficiency winning it all. Who on that bench other than those starters help us on the defensive end?
My comment was about our "designated 3 pt shooter" but okay if you want to look at the team. IU as a team is 220th in the country in 3 pts made per game. In the Top 50 you have-
Baylor 10.4
Bama 10.4
IL 9.6
UConn 9.5
Creighton 9.2
Nova 9
I clearly said I understand your argument about starting Kopp. There is often a debate about the balance between winning now and building for the future and I understand the position about winning now. My only point was that Kopp is not a stellar shooter nationally and IU as a team is still below the Div 1 average for 3 pointers.
I am not opposed to a balanced offense but I don't see how anyone could take the position that IU is overbalanced to the 3.
Baylor 10.4
Bama 10.4
IL 9.6
UConn 9.5
Creighton 9.2
Nova 9
I clearly said I understand your argument about starting Kopp. There is often a debate about the balance between winning now and building for the future and I understand the position about winning now. My only point was that Kopp is not a stellar shooter nationally and IU as a team is still below the Div 1 average for 3 pointers.
I am not opposed to a balanced offense but I don't see how anyone could take the position that IU is overbalanced to the 3.
I have high hopes for Gunn but he does have a lot of work to do. He gets beat on defense now. His footwork is bad and he gets turned easily.
The argument originally was those freshmen starting over Kopp. That won’t help us. More shooting at the 2 and 4 will. Banks is a 3 not a 4. He won’t be competing with anyone but kopp and wtf would start Gunn over JHS or Galloway? His argument was dumb. Those guys aren’t ready defensively and they had better light it up to overcome the lack of defense. Nobody ever said that IU was overbalanced at the 3. They are however sufficient at times.
Neither banks or Gunn are close to being ready. I like what I see but people need to get over the Kopp sh!t. He’s doing his job.
Also…where is he ranked with position in mind? The 2 and 4 spots are the ones lacking. If IU could just get more outside from those 2 spots.
I don't follow stats much, but not sure why you're talking about total # of made 3s... not how our offense is designed, nor what Kopp is asked/allowed to do. Most people think of "great shooter" based off percentage. You also can't compare any college shooter to Steph Curry, but Kopp would do well in a game of HORSE against most any other college shooter, including Parker Stewart.
KU's 3 pt shooting so far this year for their starters-
Wilson 23/63
Dick 27/58
McCullar 12/33
Zach Clemence is 0/9.
Nathan Childress last season was 1/1 from 3 so more to it than just 3 pt %.
Wilson 23/63
Dick 27/58
McCullar 12/33
Zach Clemence is 0/9.
Nathan Childress last season was 1/1 from 3 so more to it than just 3 pt %.
Now look at KU shooting last year. They play a more perimeter style because they don’t have the inside size or post play they had last year. They averaged about 8 made at 35-36%. Sound familiar? They were very efficient on 2 point shots and free throws. They were also very good defensively. Efficient scoring is way more important than three point shooting.KU's 3 pt shooting so far this year for their starters-
Wilson 23/63
Dick 27/58
McCullar 12/33
Zach Clemence is 0/9.
Nathan Childress last season was 1/1 from 3 so more to it than just 3 pt %.
If you shoot 40% from. 3 that equates to 60% from 2 on an efficiency basis on pts per attempt.
It really doesn't matter how you do it if you win but good 3 pt shooting can help for more wins. If you can do it with mid range jumpers or offensive rebounds then great. If you have great strength as a team in other areas than not an issue. I am spoiled by all the great shooters of the past but agree you can be a fearsome team with poor 3 pt shooting if you have enough strength in other areas to carry you through. On the other hand if you have a player like Kyle Guy at VA or Alford or Woodson or Kitchel or Wittman it takes some of the pressure off other areas.
I jumped in at the tail end of this conversation, but I don't understand what you are arguing. Kopp is 23-47 on the year, so better percentage wise than KU's best, and more efficient based on fewer shots. So yes, he's as good a shooter as almost anyone in the country. Obviousy you have to have a reasonable # of attempts, but Kopp is well beyond that.KU's 3 pt shooting so far this year for their starters-
Wilson 23/63
Dick 27/58
McCullar 12/33
Zach Clemence is 0/9.
Nathan Childress last season was 1/1 from 3 so more to it than just 3 pt %.
Wilson is averaging 22.1/game, Dick 15.4, and McCullar 11.8 while Kopp is at 9.9. Kopp's contribution to the offense as the designated shooter is low.
If you look at other stats Wilson is averaging 9.4 rebounds/game, Dick 4.4, and McCullar 7.2 while Kopp is at 2.0.
Wilson averages 3.2 assists/game, Dick 1.9, McCullar 2.1 and Kopp .9.
Wilson averages 1.0 steals/game, Dick 1.2, McCullar 2.4 and Kopp .5.
Not many teams shoot 40%. Most dynamic teams are 37%. If you have 2-3 shooters in the 35-40% range is really good. People usually overestimate how many and percentage. Not many teams have designated shooters anymore. Kopp basically fell into it because the others weren’t good at it. Those guys you mentioned are from a way different era. Most never saw a shot clock. I tend to not go back that far. Guy is the exception. Of course they run a structured offense. Woody runs all modern stuff.
We scored 75 pts which normally is on target for a win. We just got killed on the boards on both ends and the refs giving AZ a 28-9 advantage on fouls certainly didn't help. We have to rebound a lot better and get JHS back healthy. Ditto TJD and X's health improving. Don't count this team out.
Tells me they play a more open, perimeter oriented style than we do. Their PG is also very good, and I assume has good stats as well. But their "5" man isn't focused on, or used heavily. We run it through TJD, A LOT. X dribbles the ball a lot early in possessions.
If any of those guys played for IU, and Woody still chose to play as we currently do, their stats wouldn't be a ton better than Kopps. Wilson would average more rebounds, I'm sure. McCullar probably would too out of his guard spot. But the ball just wouldn't be in their hands as much as it is at Kansas this year. This is just a guess, but I bet the ball is either in X or TJD's hands for over 80% of most possessions, especially with JHS out. Its much more evenly spread at Kansas.
Is your point that we need to change our style? Or that we need to play other players within our current style? Or just that if Woody played other players more like Geronimo, that our style would just naturally change with them in the game?
I agree that we need to change our style...I've said it about a million times. The Nebraska game was the best we've looked offensively (against decent competition), in a long, long time. TJD and Race being away from the basket more, facilitating more, less outward focus on them in the post, etc... For whatever reason we didn't stick with that against Arizona. We'll see if we do going forward at all.
I don't agree that other players would play better than Kopp within our current style.
And I don't agree that playing those other players would change our style. They've played, it didn't change.
Just a recitation of facts. Of course you play with the team you got and this is the team we got. Your playing style should play to your strengths and minimize the impact of your weaknesses as much as possible.
It sometimes looks like down low there is a veritable convention of players-really congested. Coach Woodson must believe that continuing to force it in gives us the best chance of winning with these personnel. TJD doesn't like the jump shot and Race mostly looks tentative like Woodson ordered him to shoot but he has doubts about doing so.
He’s only told everyone that all players have the green light. If they are open they shoot it. It’s expected of them. He gets upset if they don’t. I know people will argue with me like I’m just saying it. Woodys has said it many many times.
I've been saying it since about half way through last season, when it became apparent to me what Woody's offense was...
1. TJD is better facing the basket than playing traditional back to the basket post play.
2. Race has a good enough outside shot, and in the half court, handles the ball well enough, to be a decent stretch 4...if directed/demanded to play that way.
3. TJD has shown, many times, but at seemingly random times, that he's exceptional passing, facing up and driving, pick and rolling...from the perimeter.
I think its a false argument to say we're "playing to our strengths" when we have X pound the ball for 15 seconds, then we run some cross screen or other action to get TJD with someone on his back in the mid post, and then we dump it down to him and space/cut off that while TJD "goes to work". Obviously that's not every possession. And I will admit that this years team does this less, overall, than last years team did. But almost invariably, some version of what I typed, IS what Woody/we revert to when games get tight late, when we need a bucket, etc...
And I think its one of the reasons we're as bad as we are putting teams away, holding leads late in games, and just closing games out well in general. We become very easy to guard, and those are the times that refs tend to start swallowing their whistles.
This game told us one thing. The 2nd and 3rd string can play against Elon.
Nobody has said anything on out “not growing”. We aren’t the ones that get overly excited about a 2nd/3rd string player. He’s going to be good for sure but geez he just played a newly minted D1team with 8 scholarship players.
I think going forward he will be 2nd string we have no depth at guards with xavier gone.
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