"It was a slow start"

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

So, I've never really hidden the fact that I'm not exactly a fan of the Veep. But after watching her performances on both CNN and MSNBC, I have to say that I am impressed with how she has developed her political acumen. She walked a terribly fine line tonight. On the one hand, she made it very clear she was Biden's surrogate, and she was making the argument that Biden is the best choice in November. And yet, at the same time, she just barely made sure that it was also clear that Biden isn't 100% Biden. Whether she doesn't want to spend time focusing on 90 minutes, or how she doesn't need to worry about one bad performance, or whatever, but most importantly, how she made sure that the discussion about these two men quickly evolved into a discussion about what was wrong with Trump, and suddenly her arguments didn't mention Biden at all, she really did a great job setting herself up as the obvious choice to battle Trump without remotely even coming close to recognizing that such a choice even needs to be made.

I do not think her talking points tonight came from the Oval. I think they came from her team. And I think her team is very talented. She is positioning herself as Biden's alternative while simultaneously denying he needs an alternative. Well done.

 

[Morrison]

So, I've never really hidden the fact that I'm not exactly a fan of the Veep. But after watching her performances on both CNN and MSNBC, I have to say that I am impressed with how she has developed her political acumen. She walked a terribly fine line tonight. On the one hand, she made it very clear she was Biden's surrogate, and she was making the argument that Biden is the best choice in November. And yet, at the same time, she just barely made sure that it was also clear that Biden isn't 100% Biden. Whether she doesn't want to spend time focusing on 90 minutes, or how she doesn't need to worry about one bad performance, or whatever, but most importantly, how she made sure that the discussion about these two men quickly evolved into a discussion about what was wrong with Trump, and suddenly her arguments didn't mention Biden at all, she really did a great job setting herself up as the obvious choice to battle Trump without remotely even coming close to recognizing that such a choice even needs to be made.

I do not think her talking points tonight came from the Oval. I think they came from her team. And I think her team is very talented. She is positioning herself as Biden's alternative while simultaneously denying he needs an alternative. Well done.

I was very surprised at how she stumbled out of the gate as VP. I’ve followed her for years out here and knew her as well, several years ago. She’s good people away from the limelight. She was always a good politician and competent in her official duties. Maybe too much of a predictable machine politician-kind of the black Hillary, which is probably why she turns people off. She’s a moderate through and through, but tacked left for political reasons in 2020.

VP’s are there to be made fun of, as it goes with the job, and when you stumble like she did early on, the perception is going to stick. FFS, Eisenhower had Nixon as his VP. At the time, his only experience was 2 years as a Congressman and 2 years in the Senate, I think, and 39 years old.


I’m simply amazed that she’s nearly unanimously written off on this board as a viable President (by Dems) while we watch Trump and Biden vie for the job. She’d be a way better choice than either of them. I also think she would beat Trump handily in a general election match up.

In all honesty, she wouldn’t be my very first choice for the job. All I’m saying, is we could do a lot worse, and have. Recently.

 

[Ohio Guy]

So, I've never really hidden the fact that I'm not exactly a fan of the Veep. But after watching her performances on both CNN and MSNBC, I have to say that I am impressed with how she has developed her political acumen. She walked a terribly fine line tonight. On the one hand, she made it very clear she was Biden's surrogate, and she was making the argument that Biden is the best choice in November. And yet, at the same time, she just barely made sure that it was also clear that Biden isn't 100% Biden. Whether she doesn't want to spend time focusing on 90 minutes, or how she doesn't need to worry about one bad performance, or whatever, but most importantly, how she made sure that the discussion about these two men quickly evolved into a discussion about what was wrong with Trump, and suddenly her arguments didn't mention Biden at all, she really did a great job setting herself up as the obvious choice to battle Trump without remotely even coming close to recognizing that such a choice even needs to be made.

I do not think her talking points tonight came from the Oval. I think they came from her team. And I think her team is very talented. She is positioning herself as Biden's alternative while simultaneously denying he needs an alternative. Well done.

I don’t know it’ll happen, but if they replace Biden, I think the spin is that the new candidate should be able to pick their own VP candidate to be able to shape their administration.

Right or wrong, the perception is that the current administration hid Harris and that she vastly underperformed. Or didn’t perform.

I don’t think they could overcome that narrative between now and November.

 

[IUCrazy2]

So, I've never really hidden the fact that I'm not exactly a fan of the Veep. But after watching her performances on both CNN and MSNBC, I have to say that I am impressed with how she has developed her political acumen. She walked a terribly fine line tonight. On the one hand, she made it very clear she was Biden's surrogate, and she was making the argument that Biden is the best choice in November. And yet, at the same time, she just barely made sure that it was also clear that Biden isn't 100% Biden. Whether she doesn't want to spend time focusing on 90 minutes, or how she doesn't need to worry about one bad performance, or whatever, but most importantly, how she made sure that the discussion about these two men quickly evolved into a discussion about what was wrong with Trump, and suddenly her arguments didn't mention Biden at all, she really did a great job setting herself up as the obvious choice to battle Trump without remotely even coming close to recognizing that such a choice even needs to be made.

I do not think her talking points tonight came from the Oval. I think they came from her team. And I think her team is very talented. She is positioning herself as Biden's alternative while simultaneously denying he needs an alternative. Well done.

Don't talk yourself into her. She isn't always going to have years to prepare for a moment to get her talking points straight. She and her team have to have known the likelihood of this moment was coming for a long time. At the very least, they had a week to prepare for that shit show last night.

She is still awful....but I think she should be President to ride out Biden's term because he is gone mentally.

 

[Harry Hondo]

I don’t know it’ll happen, but if they replace Biden, I think the spin is that the new candidate should be able to pick their own VP candidate to be able to shape their administration.

Right or wrong, the perception is that the current administration hid Harris and that she vastly underperformed. Or didn’t perform.

I don’t think they could overcome that narrative between now and November.

Dems need to get Biden to step down then have a vote on the convention floor to see who replaces him. That’s probably the only chance they have in November. If they can get a few viable replacements I don’t think Harris wins that vote. Nobody in the party thinks she can win a presidential election.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Dems need to get Biden to step down then have a vote on the convention floor to see who replaces him. That’s probably the only chance they have in November. If they can get a few viable replacements I don’t think Harris wins that vote. Nobody in the party thinks she can win a presidential election.

Other than Michelle Obama (and she won't do it), which Democrat has the name recognition to enter the race in August and win? Harris has been more invisible than most Veeps. Newsom would sew up CA, but it already is. Pete made it through 3-4 primaries, hardly a household name for those who don't live politics. Kelly, Whitmer, Besheer, Cooper are not at all known outside their states.

And would a Newsom sacrifice himself by falling on his sword this year? A trouncing would end his ambition.

My wild guess is that they prepped Biden like they would Obama. He was filled with pithy quips, facts, and zings, and couldn't possibly access them promptly in front of a camera. They over-prepped him. I have no doubt at his age, even IF there is nothing wrong with him, remembering all the crap and using it appropriately would be way too taxing. Trump is far more used to just making up what he wants on the fly.

I didn't watch, but everyone agrees it was bad. His staff needs fired. It isn't impossible to come back, Reagan had to overcome similar concerns but his line about not holding his opponent's age against him worked. That line isn't available to Biden, I don't know what is. But I look at the bench and am not impressed.

My told you so moment, I argued all along someone else needed to run, to be available. It is ridiculous it came down to this. Another candidate, even if they were well behind Biden, would have been crisis crossing the states and would have had some vetting and name recognition.

Invite Kennedy back into the party? Yep, he's horrible, I get that. But is he as horrible as the other guy? We may be facing Pol Pot, Stalin, or Hitler. Take your pick.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

So, I've never really hidden the fact that I'm not exactly a fan of the Veep. But after watching her performances on both CNN and MSNBC, I have to say that I am impressed with how she has developed her political acumen. She walked a terribly fine line tonight. On the one hand, she made it very clear she was Biden's surrogate, and she was making the argument that Biden is the best choice in November. And yet, at the same time, she just barely made sure that it was also clear that Biden isn't 100% Biden. Whether she doesn't want to spend time focusing on 90 minutes, or how she doesn't need to worry about one bad performance, or whatever, but most importantly, how she made sure that the discussion about these two men quickly evolved into a discussion about what was wrong with Trump, and suddenly her arguments didn't mention Biden at all, she really did a great job setting herself up as the obvious choice to battle Trump without remotely even coming close to recognizing that such a choice even needs to be made.

I do not think her talking points tonight came from the Oval. I think they came from her team. And I think her team is very talented. She is positioning herself as Biden's alternative while simultaneously denying he needs an alternative. Well done.

Don't disagree although she should have led with the elephant in the room, been thorough about it and gotten it out of the way before launching on trump. The way she handled it with tiny acknowledgements created the need for it to be brought up to her again and again (even by biased hosts. She yabutted when she should have overstated his poor night right up front.

Damage control 101.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Other than Michelle Obama (and she won't do it), which Democrat has the name recognition to enter the race in August and win? Harris has been more invisible than most Veeps. Newsom would sew up CA, but it already is. Pete made it through 3-4 primaries, hardly a household name for those who don't live politics. Kelly, Whitmer, Besheer, Cooper are not at all known outside their states.

And would a Newsom sacrifice himself by falling on his sword this year? A trouncing would end his ambition.

My wild guess is that they prepped Biden like they would Obama. He was filled with pithy quips, facts, and zings, and couldn't possibly access them promptly in front of a camera. They over-prepped him. I have no doubt at his age, even IF there is nothing wrong with him, remembering all the crap and using it appropriately would be way too taxing. Trump is far more used to just making up what he wants on the fly.

I didn't watch, but everyone agrees it was bad. His staff needs fired. It isn't impossible to come back, Reagan had to overcome similar concerns but his line about not holding his opponent's age against him worked. That line isn't available to Biden, I don't know what is. But I look at the bench and am not impressed.

My told you so moment, I argued all along someone else needed to run, to be available. It is ridiculous it came down to this. Another candidate, even if they were well behind Biden, would have been crisis crossing the states and would have had some vetting and name recognition.

Invite Kennedy back into the party? Yep, he's horrible, I get that. But is he as horrible as the other guy? We may be facing Pol Pot, Stalin, or Hitler. Take your pick.

I suspect they did over prep him and he was frozen. I would have given him two or three comebacks to certain lies that they knew were coming. Have him win two or three of these so they have something to hang on to. Instead he got none.

 

[Bowlmania]

I didn't watch, but everyone agrees it was bad. His staff needs fired. It isn't impossible to come back, Reagan had to overcome similar concerns but his line about not holding his opponent's age against him worked. That line isn't available to Biden, I don't know what is. But I look at the bench and am not impressed.

I respectfully disagree. Reagan's struggles against Mondale in their first debate are not comparable to Biden's "Night of the Living Dead" performance.

And Mondale was bright, a worthy opponent and good speaker. Somewhat lost in the Biden shitshow last night is the fact that Trump was unable to answer the questions presented, lied through his teeth, and often looked and sounded like a buffoon. Biden should have been able to shred him yet couldn't lay a glove on him.

Biden can't recover from this. Obama needs to meet with him this weekend and convince him to end the campaign. If the Dems continue with Biden, they will lose with Biden.

With respect to the bench, and considering the opposition, the bar doesn't need to be particularly high. Average intelligence, decent speaker, favorable likability quotient, absence of scandals and some government executive experience should be sufficient.

 

[BradStevens]

Other than Michelle Obama (and she won't do it), which Democrat has the name recognition to enter the race in August and win? Harris has been more invisible than most Veeps. Newsom would sew up CA, but it already is. Pete made it through 3-4 primaries, hardly a household name for those who don't live politics. Kelly, Whitmer, Besheer, Cooper are not at all known outside their states.

And would a Newsom sacrifice himself by falling on his sword this year? A trouncing would end his ambition.

My wild guess is that they prepped Biden like they would Obama. He was filled with pithy quips, facts, and zings, and couldn't possibly access them promptly in front of a camera. They over-prepped him. I have no doubt at his age, even IF there is nothing wrong with him, remembering all the crap and using it appropriately would be way too taxing. Trump is far more used to just making up what he wants on the fly.

I didn't watch, but everyone agrees it was bad. His staff needs fired. It isn't impossible to come back, Reagan had to overcome similar concerns but his line about not holding his opponent's age against him worked. That line isn't available to Biden, I don't know what is. But I look at the bench and am not impressed.

My told you so moment, I argued all along someone else needed to run, to be available. It is ridiculous it came down to this. Another candidate, even if they were well behind Biden, would have been crisis crossing the states and would have had some vetting and name recognition.

Invite Kennedy back into the party? Yep, he's horrible, I get that. But is he as horrible as the other guy? We may be facing Pol Pot, Stalin, or Hitler. Take your pick.

Tom Hanks on line #1.

Tom, we just need you to act like a combo of Cpt. Miller, Jim Lovell, and Cpt. Krause (Greyhound) for four years, until we get somebody up and ready. Your country needs you, son. What do you say?

I know it will never happen. Fun to think about though.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I respectfully disagree. Reagan's struggles against Mondale in their first debate are not comparable to Biden's "Night of the Living Dead" performance.

And Mondale was bright, a worthy opponent and good speaker. Somewhat lost in the Biden shitshow last night is the fact that Trump was unable to answer the questions presented, lied through his teeth, and often looked and sounded like a buffoon. Biden should have been able to shred him yet couldn't lay a glove on him.

Biden can't recover from this. Obama needs to meet with him this weekend and convince him to end the campaign. If the Dems continue with Biden, they will lose with Biden.

With respect to the bench, and considering the opposition, the bar doesn't need to be particularly high. Average intelligence, decent speaker, favorable likability quotient, absence of scandals and some government executive experience should be sufficient.

We have underestimated Trump before. If you have read the Foundation series, he's The Mule. Someone has to spin up a campaign and just try to introduce themselves. The whole time they are trying to get people to know who they are, Trump will be also defining them as a crazed socialist. That is the disadvantage, if one isn't known there is a race to define them.

I wish I had an answer. I clearly cannot choose the candidate in front of me, I clearly cannot choose the candidate in front of you.

 

[Bowlmania]

We have underestimated Trump before.

True, but Trump hasn't won anything since 2016, and even that was a squeaker and required a perfect storm. He had the coveted trifecta for the first two years of his presidency, lost that in 2018, lost his reelection bid in 2020, cost his party the Senate in early 2021, and prevented the "guaranteed" red wave from materializing in 2022. His CFO and personal attorney have been convicted of felonies, his business organization has been convicted of felonies, and he himself is building quite a rap sheet. Guy's got so much baggage there's no place to put it. At the end of the day, he's a loser and extremely vulnerable.

If the Dems can't: 1) convince Biden to step aside; and 2) come up with a candidate who could handily beat Trump, then they're even more pathetic than the current GOP.

 

[Spartans9312]

I respectfully disagree. Reagan's struggles against Mondale in their first debate are not comparable to Biden's "Night of the Living Dead" performance.

And Mondale was bright, a worthy opponent and good speaker. Somewhat lost in the Biden shitshow last night is the fact that Trump was unable to answer the questions presented, lied through his teeth, and often looked and sounded like a buffoon. Biden should have been able to shred him yet couldn't lay a glove on him.

Biden can't recover from this. Obama needs to meet with him this weekend and convince him to end the campaign. If the Dems continue with Biden, they will lose with Biden.

With respect to the bench, and considering the opposition, the bar doesn't need to be particularly high. Average intelligence, decent speaker, favorable likability quotient, absence of scandals and some government executive experience should be sufficient.

The NYT Editorial Board has called on Biden to drop out of the race.

As I posted earlier, that and the WaPo board are bellwethers of the Dem establishment, along with leadership of the major unions. *If* there is a plan to push Biden out, it has been set in motion-emphasis on *if*, as the NYT editorial doesn’t mean that something is afoot, but it is certainly a domino that would fall in any Operation Dignified Exit.

The bigger dominoes are the one-name celebrities: Bill, Hillary, Barack, Michelle, and Nancy. Barack backed Biden early in the day yesterday. But if those start turning on him one at a time over the next 72 hours, we’ll know a plan is in place

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The NYT Editorial Board has called on Biden to drop out of the race.

As I posted earlier, that and the WaPo board are bellwethers of the Dem establishment, along with leadership of the major unions. *If* there is a plan to push Biden out, it has been set in motion-emphasis on *if*, as the NYT editorial doesn’t mean that something is afoot, but it is certainly a domino that would fall in any Operation Dignified Exit.

The bigger dominoes are the one-name celebrities: Bill, Hillary, Barack, Michelle, and Nancy. Barack backed Biden early in the day yesterday. But if those start turning on him one at a time over the next 72 hours, we’ll know a plan is in place

What kind of plan can there be, he has to recuse himself. Maybe they could watch the movie Gaslight for ideas?

Plan B Frankly might be ads, "We know you are holding your nose and voting Trump. So vote D for House and Senate. Divided government works for you."

 

[Bowlmania]

The bigger dominoes are the one-name celebrities: Bill, Hillary, Barack, Michelle, and Nancy. Barack backed Biden early in the day yesterday. But if those start turning on him one at a time over the next 72 hours, we’ll know a plan is in place

They're supporting him publicly but I'm certain the behind-the-scenes comments are very different. I'm reading that top Dems are worried about Biden dragging down the entire ticket if he is the nominee.

No one who watched Thursday night's debate can possibly un-see it. Biden can't recover from that debacle and would lose to Trump if he is the nominee. I believe new polling that comes out in the next several days will make that abundantly clear, with Trump likely opening as much as a double-digit lead in some of the swing states.

My [not so bold] prediction: Biden will announce no later than July 22 that he is ending his campaign, and the election that nobody wanted will go into the dustbin of history. The Dems will have a contested convention in Chicago, with a new nominee emerging to take on and defeat Don the Con.

If I'm wrong, and Biden is the nominee, his selfishness will be his legacy.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

They're supporting him publicly but I'm certain the behind-the-scenes comments are very different. I'm reading that top Dems are worried about Biden dragging down the entire ticket if he is the nominee.

No one who watched Thursday night's debate can possibly un-see it. Biden can't recover from that debacle and would lose to Trump if he is the nominee. I believe new polling that comes out in the next several days will make that abundantly clear, with Trump likely opening as much as a double-digit lead in some of the swing states.

My [not so bold] prediction: Biden will announce no later than July 22 that he is ending his campaign, and the election that nobody wanted will go into the dustbin of history. The Dems will have a contested convention in Chicago, with a new nominee emerging to take on and defeat Don the Con.

If I'm wrong, and Biden is the nominee, his selfishness will be his legacy.

Merchan is now a bigger player than ever. He obviously wants to keep the felonies in the news. I can easily see Merchan remanding Trump to the custody of the sheriff on July 11 or house arrest with electronic monitoring.

 

[Bowlmania]

Merchan is now a bigger player than ever. He obviously wants to keep the felonies in the news. I can easily see Merchan remanding Trump to the custody of the sheriff on July 11 or house arrest with electronic monitoring.

Man, you've got it bad.

Trump will never spend a minute in state prison in NY.

There are some aggravating factors, though (i.e. Trump's repeated violations of the gag order, and his continuing failure to accept responsibility for his crimes), that could militate in favor of a period of home detention. Unlikely, though, and in any event, stayed pending appeal.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Man, you've got it bad.

Trump will never spend a minute in state prison in NY.

There are some aggravating factors, though (i.e. Trump's repeated violations of the gag order, and his continuing failure to accept responsibility for his crimes), that could militate in favor of a period of home detention. Unlikely, though, and in any event, suspended pending appeal.

He won’t spend time in the state pen. But being remanded to the sheriff’s custody upon sentencing and before release pending appeal is a real possibility.

 

[Bowlmania]

He won’t spend time in the state pen. But being remanded to the sheriff’s custody upon sentencing and before release pending appeal is a real possibility.

You talking an hour for processing? Big deal.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

You talking an hour for processing? Big deal.

The image of Being led from the courtroom in the custody of deputies is a very big deal.

 

[Bowlmania]

The image of Being led from the courtroom in the custody of deputies is a very big deal.

True. Another fund-raising/grifting opportunity. Like the mug shot.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

The image of Being led from the courtroom in the custody of deputies is a very big deal.

Is that SOP in New York? If so, shouldn’t we expect it or even demand it? One tiered system of justice.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

You talking an hour for processing? Big deal.

He can get the best, most beautiful torture in an hour.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I was very surprised at how she stumbled out of the gate as VP. I’ve followed her for years out here and knew her as well, several years ago. She’s good people away from the limelight. She was always a good politician and competent in her official duties. Maybe too much of a predictable machine politician-kind of the black Hillary, which is probably why she turns people off. She’s a moderate through and through, but tacked left for political reasons in 2020.

VP’s are there to be made fun of, as it goes with the job, and when you stumble like she did early on, the perception is going to stick. FFS, Eisenhower had Nixon as his VP. At the time, his only experience was 2 years as a Congressman and 2 years in the Senate, I think, and 39 years old.


I’m simply amazed that she’s nearly unanimously written off on this board as a viable President (by Dems) while we watch Trump and Biden vie for the job. She’d be a way better choice than either of them. I also think she would beat Trump handily in a general election match up.

In all honesty, she wouldn’t be my very first choice for the job. All I’m saying, is we could do a lot worse, and have. Recently.

Her competence is so well hidden, I wonder if she has any. She didn’t even make it out of the starting gate in 2020. No donors, no voters, and no chance.

She is a one trick poney, abortion. . That’s it. The Biden campaign staff gave her that mission and only that mission. Her attempts to talk about other important stuff ends up in a cackle or something stupid.