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Israel under attack from Hamas

I don't believe him, either.
Don't shoot me I'm just forwarding what I read. I found it interesting. I guess he's been attempting this for awhile.

Edit: And I'll believe Shroder over the MIC any day. The MIC is loving what's going on around the globe. Don't be fooled. The one thing they profit from is war period. They do not give a rats ass about human life and haven't for well over 100 years.
 
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Don't shoot me I'm just forwarding what I read. I found it interesting. I guess he's been attempting this for awhile.
Not attacking you - just the article(s).

It's interesting to me, too, but I just find it hard to believe Zelensky agreed to any of that, when he refused to vacate the country, on Biden's invitation, and consistently said there would be no giving in.

On the other hand, I think Zelensky could be persuaded to agree to a permanent cease-fire with a treaty - guaranteed by the US and NATO - that ensured Russia taking out all military assets out of Ukraine, including Crimea, and with the disputed zones demilitarized, except for UN peacekeepers.
 
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Not attacking you - just the article(s).

It's interesting to me, too, but I just find it hard to believe Zelensky agreed to any of that, when he refused to vacate the country, on Biden's invitation, and consistently said there would be no giving in.

On the other hand, I think Zelensky could be persuaded to agree to a permanent cease-fire with a treaty - guaranteed by the US and NATO - that ensured Russia taking out all military assets out of Ukraine, including Crimea, and with the disputed zones demilitarized, except for UN peacekeepers.
There are several articles about this even one in wsj. Try a search engine besides Google.
 
So enlighten me. How far back do you go? Canaanites?
How about 1944 … a civil war ensued … in ‘47

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947–1948_civil_war_in_Mandatory_Palestine#lapierre_collins

Truman recognized the Israeli state in 1948 … Syria, Jordan, and Egypt invaded in ’48, ’67, …

Palestine_Index_to_Villages_and_Settlements%2C_showing_Land_in_Jewish_Possession_as_at_31.12.44.jpg


The two state solution was proposed in ‘47, 76 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine
 
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Jews, Arabs, Samaritans, Armenians, Georgians (?), etc., pretty much every ethnic group that is in Israel today was already there before the 20th century. The only thing that changed was a huge influx of European Jews and a huge Exodus of Arabs.
Yep and it was controlled for a long time by the Ottoman Empire (Turks) who lost it in WW1, then became a British Mandate until 1948, then finally became a country.
 
That area has been conquered back and forth since humans have had the written word. Anywhere you dig in Israel is going to have a Jewish presence deeper than Arabs or Islam. You know who has the right to the land? Those with the strength to currently hold it. As it has always been.

The rules we apply to war spawn forever conflict. If the Israelis would take the same "from the river to the sea" approach as their neighbors, this conflict would have cooled off a long time ago.

Sounds like America, where everywhere you dig you find a much deeper presence of native Indians than Europeans. But they didn’t have a hyper power keeping them on the map, so eff ‘em.
 
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Sounds like America, where everywhere you dig you find a much deeper presence of native Indians than Europeans. But they didn’t have a hyper power propping them up, so eff ‘em.

The same hyperpower that props up the majority of their neighbors as well?
 
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Why make senseless comparisons?

"Progressives" gonna progressive. I would take all these liberal "decolonizer" types more seriously if they returned to wherever there ancestors are from voluntarily after giving up their home to an Indian American (also people who migrated here from somewhere else, but whatever).
 
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"Progressives" gonna progressive. I would take all these white liberal "decolonizer" types more seriously if they returned to Europe voluntarily after giving up their home to an Indian American (also people who migrated here from somewhere else, but whatever).

lol. You realize we started as a colony, right? We also had a reputation for defending liberty. See our current work in Ukraine.

In related news, the US education system is shot…
 
What are the motives of Israelis?
Same as any nation: Secure their core, create strategic depth, expand geography and/or increase regional to international political/ economic/ military influence. And although Israel is powerful in context of size and region, it also requires a much more powerful outside benefactor.

the US has always and should always make decisions with the broader region in mind, balancing the sometimes problematic needs of a deeply trusted ally with the plight of a nation without a country
 
Same as any nation: Secure their core, create strategic depth, expand geography and/or increase regional to international political/ economic/ military influence. And although Israel is powerful in context of size and region, it also requires a much more powerful outside benefactor.

the US has always and should always make decisions with the broader region in mind, balancing the sometimes problematic needs of a deeply trusted ally with the plight of a country-less nation
Or maybe Israel's motive is: ensure its innocent civilian citizens aren't brutally raped, murdered, and beheaded?

I don't see much "problematic" in that need at all.
 
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Or maybe Israel's motive is: ensure its innocent civilian citizens aren't brutally raped, murdered, and beheaded?

I don't see much "problematic" in that need at all.
On Fox, they've been interviewing an American who is over there cleaning up bodies for burial and putting body parts with the right body.

Babies stabbed in the head. Decapitating babies. Women with their fetuses cut out and both killed.

The level of depravity and cruelty it would take to do things like this.... I just can't imagine. If these people are being hidden in the Arab population, I would have no problem with Israelis taking out whoever is sheltering them.

And when they find the purps, do the same to them and put it on video to show the world.

Israel needs to go Old Testament here.
 
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Or maybe Israel's motive is: ensure its innocent civilian citizens aren't brutally raped, murdered, and beheaded?

I don't see much "problematic" in that need at all.

I’m certainly not downplaying the events, please correct me if you’ve seen me do that, but we’ve seen this play out so many times. Israel can’t punch back twice as hard and expect a different result. Not if it wants a seat at the table. The West will draw a line.
 
On Fox, they've been interviewing an American who is over there cleaning up bodies for burial and putting body parts with the right body.

Babies stabbed in the head. Decapitating babies. Women with their fetuses cut out and both killed.

The level of depravity and cruelty it would take to do things like this.... I just can't imagine. If these people are being hidden in the Arab population, I would have no problem with Israelis taking out whoever is sheltering them.

And when they find the purps, do the same to them and put it on video to show the world.

Israel needs to go Old Testament here.

“Old Testament”? I don’t think you’re having a serious discussion
 
Same as any nation: Secure their core, create strategic depth, expand geography and/or increase regional to international political/ economic/ military influence. And although Israel is powerful in context of size and region, it also requires a much more powerful outside benefactor.

the US has always and should always make decisions with the broader region in mind, balancing the sometimes problematic needs of a deeply trusted ally with the plight of a nation without a country

why should the US give a shit about Palestinians when nobody else does or has for a long time?
 
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so I guess would you would support an Osage Nation uprising?

I get the sentiment of the cartoon. I really do but Israel does have to respond proportionally if it wants a full seat at the international table. Those are the rules.

This is 2023. As I said previously, making comparisons to centuries earlier with different contexts is senseless. That being said, I’d argue the American Indians were more compassionate and respectful than Islamic terror groups.

If the Osage nation decides to murder 1,400 Americans, you can be certain there would be a desire to crush and eliminate the belligerents.

I was never supportive of expansionary settlements, but the idea od a two state solution with antiquated borders is insanity.
 
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so I guess would you would support an Osage Nation uprising?

I get the sentiment of the cartoon. I really do but Israel does have to respond proportionally if it wants a full seat at the international table. Those are the rules.



Watch the video. What would be a "proportionate" response to that? If you lived in El Paso, TX and a bunch of narco terrorists who lived in a city that elected them to rule came across the border and did that to you and your family, what would be a "proportionate" response to that?

The idea that proportionate responses are required is utter naive bull shit thinking. You don't owe an enemy proportionality. War isn't about going tit for tat. It is about smashing your enemy into a bunch of tiny pieces until they are either dead or beg for mercy. "Proportionality" is what allows conflicts like this to drag on for decades.

If I knew you did this to mine and you had the will and capability to do it again, I would be willing to kill every last person you hold dear in order to eliminate you. That is the proportional response. And you know who would be to blame? You. Just like the people in those videos. They are to blame. They want a "proportionate" response, they should surrender. However the "from the river to the sea" mindset is pretty ubiquitous in Gaza. I feel for the kids, but the adults are the equivalent of 1944 Germans to me. Pummel them into submission.
 
but the adults are the equivalent of 1944 Germans to me. Pummel them into submission.

I see this a lot, and I get the comparison to an extent. The thing is, other than Dresden, America lost a lot of men trying very hard not to kill German civilians. All the daylight precision bombing was to hit the factories, not the cities. Now the Norden wasn't nearly as good we we advertised, but had we done the British method of nighttime bombing anything we could find we would have lost many fewer B17s and their crews.

Here is an article about our use of morality in our targeting.


Of course, we undid a lot of that with Dresden. Books I have seen have suggested pilots were unhappy about being ordered to make the Dresden attacks.

In the Pacific, we also tried precision daylight bombing, and it was an abysmal failure. The altitude made it far harder to hit the target, and no one knew of the jet stream that the B-29s could reach. Because of that added wind not being accounted for by navigators, we were lucky to find the right city. The commanding general was sacked, and LeMay came in to destroy Japanese production by any means necessary. So while we went to total destruction in Japan, we spent some time trying hard to avoid it.
 
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I see this a lot, and I get the comparison to an extent. The thing is, other than Dresden, America lost a lot of men trying very hard not to kill German civilians. All the daylight precision bombing was to hit the factories, not the cities. Now the Norden wasn't nearly as good we we advertised, but had we done the British method of nighttime bombing anything we could find we would have lost many fewer B17s and their crews.

Here is an article about our use of morality in our targeting.


Of course, we undid a lot of that with Dresden. Books I have seen have suggested pilots were unhappy about being ordered to make the Dresden attacks.

In the Pacific, we also tried precision daylight bombing, and it was an abysmal failure. The altitude made it far harder to hit the target, and no one knew of the jet stream that the B-29s could reach. Because of that added wind not being accounted for by navigators, we were lucky to find the right city. The commanding general was sacked, and LeMay came in to destroy Japanese production by any means necessary. So while we went to total destruction in Japan, we spent some time trying hard to avoid it.

We "tried" not to do much damage but we utterly destroyed both Germany and Japan. Allied strategic bombing is thought to have killed 350-500,000 Germans and 330-900,000 Japanese plus an additional 112,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I don't think the Israelis are going total destruction either. I am saying that if you put the missiles that are shooting at my country on the roof of a hospital, I am blowing up the missiles. The fact the hospital gets destroyed along with it isn't my fault. If you set up your terrorist offices in a mosque, I am bombing the mosque. Also not my fault. If I have intelligence that a high value leader of your group is in an apartment building, I am taking him out.

You know when they will stop using things like hospitals, schools, and mosques as shields for their terrorists? About the time they realize we don't view that as a shield anymore.
 
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